no, as i said this, the duty method in the new, this is a used to play new for losses commode with ah ah, hello and welcome to cross hock, where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the west ukraine proxy war against russia is turning out to be a historical watershed. russia's 300 year relationship with the west is rapidly coming to an end. russia shipping. it's attention to the east and global south rushes game is the wes lost. with

cross sucking the west split with rush. i'm joined by my guess, url rasmussen in minneapolis. he's the executive vice president of the racial center in brussels. we have gilbert carro, he is an independent, political analyst, and author of memoirs. i'm an ex pat manager in moscow. during the 19 ninety's and logan suite, cross to janice wood, conan, he is chief editor of m. b media. i gentleman cross sack rose to the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciated gilbert. let me go to you 1st and brussels that i paint too much of a pessimistic picture in my introduction. the end to brush is 300 year relationship with the west because the sanctions, at least the american ones will probably never come and go away. europe. we'll see how it goes. they are very, very much divided and is that as long as they are divided, those sanctions won't go away. this split is real and it's meaningful. and i don't see it mending for at least a generation. is that hyperbole on my part gilbert. well, i think it's exaggerated, it's really a bit early to say,

how long this rupture will last a reorientation by russia towards these touristy towards asia, toward c. a southern hemisphere is clearly proceeding and will not be stopped by anything that comes out of the relationship with the europe. it's personally on the rocks. however, the kremlin has been very careful not to burn bridges when not necessary, and to keep open options for some kind of a normal dialogue and interchange with its neighbors in europe. what, whether this will be a play out in terms of a restoration of, of relations within a preference. i'm that you have indicated not generation from now, but in 5 years from now or less depends really on the outcome of the present military conflict. it also depends on the stability or collapse of major west european countries. yeah, we saw the government in france collapse. we see now the government in your case

collapsing. so it's early to say that these united front will last very long and that russia will be out of europe for long order of that. but basically the same question to you, and i'm really glad glad that gilbert put that because i don't see the west collectively saying that they were wrong. okay. they, they get it. they, they're always going to blame russia for this, for, and blame russia for a european r, a security architecture that failed in nato failed here. but as gilbert points out, if we have governments fall and change than that might change the calculation, i tend to doubt it. i think we can still see government fall in still not changed their position in the long term towards russia. your thoughts or i'll go ahead peter, i, i, you know, i understand both or consider i but one thing for sure. the relations will not increase and i think they will over time. but it may be, i think, 5 years a little bit too soon. i think it's standard plenty of but,

but for one thing is all of the leadership within the west, at least the main one need to fall. those governments need to be replaced. you were already starting to see that. and it's going to be the economic turmoil that'll probably push it. and i think people starting to wake up and realize what's going on. that's going to play a role in here. and i don't think you're gonna see any type of vending of relations . i don't think russia will terminate because i think they, they are pragmatic and they'll look at that. but i, i do agree that the ship to the global south with them is where they offer the 30 bar. that's where the few trips and i think basically the west is isolating so absolutely, absolutely. janice, let me go to you and we're gonna be free and independent, sovereign country against. congratulations. you're the 1st citizen that i've met from your country and it's a pleasure to have you on cross don, jenn, if you're,

if we look at the division between the west in russia you, you made it on the russian side. ok. meaning congratulations for that. of course. people, most of people in the west have no idea of the travails and problems that you have had over the last 8 years. what precipitated this war in the 1st way. so how do you see it? i mean you're, you're essentially on the border. if we see it, there's a split here. go ahead. yeah, i've been here in the, in the article melissa for front line for over 70 years. again, just around the, the bottles of the ball civil in 2015. and since then, i've been here and building the re, bob mixing in don't, but you don't sell to ask people to bob lex. and of course, these has been to the 1st are much resistance against globalization against the globalism and western power structure. and what we see here, and what bring me here was that i saw already in 2007 g when dimension conference

and the gate took place in britain. that the deviation between the west and east has been a very sharp. like front line have been building step by step by step between the battery of the gracia and to global east west. and of course it don't bust as being the edge of all evens and it is today. and it was then, and of course our great victory here are bringing home for all the patriots in the world. go. but when they go back to you in brussels it and looking at this conflict in ukraine, however long it last and all of us wanted to end as soon as possible. ukrainians need to suffer for the hubris of the west. that's my opinion, at least. but you know, will win or lose. i mean, rush is, you know, a precious game who won the war, it will still be considered an outside or an outcast if it loses it. and then

you'll have this attitude. well, yes. then we must keep going further. and regime change in rush, i mean there's, there's very little in between here irrespective of the outcome in the military outcome in ukraine. well, everything there was held back in the past regarding the real inner force of leading cars in the west towards russia has come out, has, has erupted to the surface in the last 3 months, the exchange and installs the re shady, the lofty lobbying of insults to the russian president of centuries and to russia as a nation and to russian culture. both sar cancel russia campaign that is now slightly slowing down. and all of this has spoiled relations in a, in a way that was unimaginable to cut off of travel between russia and went. and europe has changed the thinking of all the russian middle glasses. and none of this

will go away any time soon. so the indelible consequences of this present time of troubles will be around with us for some time. as, as my final fellow panelists indicated, it's an error. let me go to you. i mean, is interesting with gilbert had to say because it's one of the things i found very curious is that the relationship, the way the west has with russia, there's russia has been insulted. it's been disparaged. i mean, i mean we, they've run out of bad things, you can actually say, and for the longest time, the russians is kind of took it because it wasn't reciprocated. now that's beginning to change, and i think that's really, really sad. because if you're, you know, if a group of people hate you long enough, eventually you hate them back. earl. yeah, i think, you know, i mean, just look at it. i mean, the west really do does not have any professional. my mike,

the insults that are given the accusations that are given i, it just degrades the relationships and i think at some point, you know, you hope the bear or, or let's not forget, you post the dragon too much and, and there's going to be a lash back, you know, so it's i, i think it's understandable. i think the west very naive lee. they can, they could do anything and nothing's going to happen then. and at some point, if we're going to stand up whether that's and i think this is actually a good way. and i think that's giving a, they're actually speaking up not just for russia, but in a way there's speaking up for a lot of these countries that have seen their countries completely destroyed by the endless wards that are preferred in the, in the africa. and the middle east and south america, indonesia era,

the asian pacific area, i mean, really somebody needed to voice up and stand up to some, you know, sovereign countries and, and that really was not taking place in the west kind of condition them for me that what you said are so important because janice, so we have been lugens mean that they were fighting for that for so long and losing a lot of their citizens in the process here. dennis, it's really interesting to bring up the words sovereignty because, you know, for per 8 years the, what you had to go through and the people in the don bass was largely absent in western media. and now, you know, when people look at, you know, the origins of the conflict, oh, they have to talk about the minutes, go coord. finally you get some agency find where you people actually have a will power to control and make your own destiny. go ahead and move ganske. yeah, that sir. we are living in a great new era off dorm bus in and what i see,

we are talking about the rules see on react reactor and the spirit of the new battery of the gracia and it has been decided here in dawn. but it has been decided by the the, by the. busy one cheers who have flowing here since 2014 from russia and, and how the people from grass can donate people republic to guard against the coup in my down in 2014 as an on to my the movement. but actually to non, the globalist movement in that you'll geopolitical field. and of course that of the russian reactor and in russia can not lose its base because he, if, if we lose to don't but we will lose the world. and we have known this that here in and understood that long time ago that this is the place where everything will be decided. and, and of course, what we see now is a big, you know, like a trembling world. because the east of all kind of channel and this is to walk a note of patriotism and, and it will fool up because the truth is in our site,

it has been all the time in our side, which are mainstream media, which started in 2011, these massive, massive information war and then these hybrid operations against don't was people, and the, or basically all around the world. and then then we are coming to the moment where the wish and proper kind of machine is going to total people. well, on that point there that, that, that the western propagate machine is, is, and the hazard law steam. it's continuing here gentlemen, i'm going to go jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and that's about short break. we'll continue our discussion on the west split with rush and state with ah, oh ah,

a doubles are going to put well, talk to you about the school. i hope that i see a with a issue, somebody over there, both those 350. i'm working with

a lot of you deal with a with the and i do so as you know that way. i don't mind ah, mousy while you while you easy while furnace us. ah. yeah. when you say once like yet if south. yeah. thrashing south with angela need. it fits in your duck garza boys. now watch done the for me at that

a bull up. my pizza is emily. apple's video from sheila. this is kim sylium. shes thought that he is safe to watch the ela. a bill come yes, my thought or change in the in the youth fortune pre out in the be a lot about this morning after search financially. ah, welcome back across that were all things considered. i'm peter le belt, remind you we're discussing the west split with russia. ah, let's go back to gilbert in brussels, gilbert, i dmitri trent in a very well known and respected mamma. geopolitical thinker

has come out with a couple of articles recently, which kind of surprised me because well, i'll be honest, that kind of, i always thought of him sitting on the fence and now he's kind of made. i'm very strong points and he, in his latest article, he talks about how the global south is no longer afraid of the west and no longer respects it. and i think that accounts for a lot of things, i'm extrapolating from what earl said earlier in the program. because they see, you know, when people get outraged about a conflict will, there's a lot of places that world that have been victims of conflicts that at the behest of the west. and there was no moral outcry. and so i think they're kind of repaying and saying, you know, this war is important to you, but not our war. and i think a lot of people in the global south feel that way. and that's why i said in my introduction, no rush has a lot of options. the western median never papa painted that way. they are brushes isolated. well no. the weston is becoming more and more isolated because it because of its neo liberal ideology, your thoughts, gilbert?

oh, i'm glad it you said it was said about to me trade training because he was on my mind as we were going into the program. i also read those articles and i was also surprised and pleased me by the positions taken out. the training was, as you say, always a fence sitter and one of the consequences whether i think critical, largely to the good of the present ongoing military operation. and he says that the scissors that it opened up in russian society is a particular matter. take a sound. yep. and he has sounds very surprising to see that he was secretly one of us. this is the position that he outlined with respect to russia's future. and the need to learn of the languages of these, of the se, asia, and of the global south. and to increase the studies of these areas and to redirect

rushes, interests in foreign travel adventures to that part of the world, from europe. to rethink russia's position in the world. and to in this way, that is, i think, a very solid positive contribution out of the difficult times delivering food. earl, basically the same point to you, i'm because he started it in the 1st part of the program, is that, i mean, if you're not, wanted in part of one part of the world wide want to go there. okay, and i'm talking about europe. i mean, if the doors are being slammed in your face, i mean, you know, it takes 2 to par life. you don't want to talk, you don't want negotiation, you don't want dialogues and turn away. and i think that's essentially what's happening. and the more you turn away, the more opportunities you see elsewhere. and so the european option, the return to the european option is not going to be it's attractive is at once what was and i think the europeans are in peril because of that go hetero. no, i'd agree peter. i mean, actually, i think in a way,

perhaps the rush became too reliance on the relationship with the, with the west, with europe, especially, i mean, and actually europe with their cheap resource access. in the close, the russia, really, russia was, was acting almost like an engine for european economic growth and expansion. but they've shut that down. but for russia really, and if you look at the rest of the world, you've got the bricks, you've got the belts and road initiative, the global south, the mass of 8070 percent of the population. tons of resources, tons of human resources as well. and these people are striving in 3rd thing, reckon amick development, russia and with, with china in partnership and really expand that. so i think that's where the opportunity is. that's where the future growth is in the world. and i think economic opportunity and, and yeah,

there's going to be challenges. absolutely. but, but i think this maybe this shift, this fragmentation that the western cause is actually providing russia to open their eyes of other opportunities that are out there and grasp them. and i think that's a positive move. well it, well janice, again, earl, is a spot on again. i mean, you know, as an american, i've been living in moscow for a quarter of a century and i've always been a bit taken aback of how the west is so glorified, you know, and it's the point of reference for so much. and that's beginning to change finely because neither one of the things a lot of people in the west don't understand is that if you watch the on national broadcast guy, no gilbert does. here is that, you know, when they, when you have lindsey graham or boris johnson, you know, saying that the worst possible things about russia, they just put it on air. i mean, if you don't have to interpret it, you don't have to comment on it. it just sitting right there and it's like it's

soft power in reverse. ok. and i think that, you know, there's, there's, and feeling that sovereignty is earl is pointed out. this is an idea that most of the world is interested in the west is not okay. the world is you, are you finally have your own country, you, you fought for it very, very hard. and other countries are saying, look, we want to have prosperity to. and if the russians want to be our partner, why not? okay? and i think that this is very, very simple because of the issue of sovereignty and it's not ideologically driven, like it is in the west. go ahead and look ganske. yeah. oh i want to start the my travel to the did the answer from st. petersburg economic form where i was 2 weeks ago, and i was, you only finish 3 percent of the basic galindo, all big main forum of the year. and it was so sad to see how finland has closed it, still out from the real markets, from the, from the do not michel, economic development from all these was abilities,

what russian russian federation weeks allies can offer for the, for the adept written binge, finnish people and i'm sorry, not for the state, but i'm, i'm sorry for the people because they be served better. they deserve to, to have their share on the markets and, and coming down here to guns into don't. but, and of course these moments when we are getting basically ready for the referendum and we were willing to join the russian federation from our bones. of course it means that our people have huge possibilities. our industries, our minds are, are, everything is possible when we can enter the brakes union. the big global market was rot, should open up for us. and, and of course it's, it's something with every oh, like people loving person would, should be doing like giving these opportunities and take care that the businesses

ha, these markets open and what you say that the west is closing each doors. and absolutely, that is what is happening and i'm very concerned from the fee which be because of the finland in its nature drive. they are isolating themselves from the whole world basically. and what, what is given them is just a misery and a poor, poor leaving. well, i mean one of the things in it and staying with you and janice, i mean i simply don't understand why finland in sweden with want to join when they've had good relations during the cold war. and since the cold war with russia it today, i mean it's, it's, it, it missed, it defies logic here. but i want to go to another question. gilbert does the west need the russian more or does russian need, or is it the reverse with what partner needs the other more? at this given moment, i think it's safe to say that the west needs russia more than russia needs the west

. but things will move along in a few months and 6 months. the deed sanctions will really bite in russia 6 months from now when stocks of, of materials are already usa. when there is a completely but you using your logic gilbert, they have to admit that they were wrong, right? they sanctions were wrong, they hurt themselves. you think they have the political will to do that? the people in power today know, but i think it is are safe guess that many of these people will no longer be in power in 4 to 6 months from now. the troubles in western europe will begin in the heating season, mid september, october, where some of the more volatile political movements shayhan france were in germany begin to take their, their effect on the stability of the governments and car of the precedents of the, of the fall of johnson and my crone stick sec,

i think it pays away for the, for the german government very nicely. the deep else could counted yesterday on the, on johnson's pending for retirement. with john good thing that johnson and ship of fools are leaving. if they looked in the mirror they receive, it shows is also in the head that the head of a ship of fools. so these governments will pass and no one presently in power would that they were wrong. you're absolutely, you know, we're all, i don't refer to miss chancellor shulty call them sergeant schultz on this program . i think it's appropriate. ok. and i don't think he'll be in power by the end of the year. i think you'll be gone and hopefully his whole crew of clowns as well. but you know, in the same question to you who needs the more, the more the other partner more the because you know, as gilbert is pointed out here and it, these people that they create they,

they teed this up for failure. ok. and i don't think they're going to take responsibility for and i think that's why going to be thrown out of power. go ahead, earl. i think i ought that. on the, on the one point. i agree with gilbert. there the russia. you're the west needs russian more. they are too critical to critical to the global, a mobile supply. chic. i mean, minerals, medals. you're really well, you're being, you're being so fragmatic girl, you're being so pragmatic. these people are ideologues. that's the problem. do you think victoria new and ever thinks about supply, james? keep going. yeah, and i, i, and i think go but, but this whole, what has happened here is they've disrupted global supply chain. they weaponized the global financial system will bring that down as well. i think over time, and ah, yeah, a, you know, perhaps 20 years ago russia needed them more but, but i think going forward, i think today rush is

a critical component in it. and it's part of, i have to agree with henry kissinger, you rushes in important part of europe. they need to build, rebuild these bridges, the need to keep in contact i. but unfortunately with the current leadership, that's not going to happen. and it's unfortunate, the people are the ones they're going to sacrifice. and these leaders, what, what happens? they don't real done. them packed them. oh, you know, went early now are all the western powers with immense agreements. they sacrificed the people of the don bass now because of their arrogance and hubris. there are sacrificing their own people here. i hope there's a clean sweep of these bombs. ok because no one is a winner at the end of the day. that's all the time we have gentlemen who want to thank my guest in minnesota, brussels, and in lugens. and when i think our viewers are watching us here in archy, see you next time, remember, cross muscles ah

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