stone claims that authorities learned the plan after arresting german soldiers for stealing military equipments. citing materials from the investigation stern says 2 of those arrested have been discussing plans on the attack to the bridge, which connects crimea and mainland russia. german authorities are yet to still comment on that the allegation. well that's all for my face, our hair. nazi. we do hope that you can join us again in 30 minutes. in the meantime, don't forget to head over to audi. don't com for more on all of today's stories. ah, ah, ah, ah

ah. ah. hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the west ukraine proxy war against russia is turning out to be in historical watershed. russia's 300 year relationship with the west is rapidly coming to an end . russia is shifting its attention to the east and global south rushes game. is the wes last ah

cross sucking the west split with rush. i'm joined by my guess, url rasmussen in minneapolis. he's the executive vice president of the racial center in brussels. we have gilbert carro, he is an independent, political analyst, and author of memoirs. i'm an ex pat manager in moscow. during the 19 ninety's and in logan suite cross to janice wood, conan, he is chief editor of m b media. i gentleman cross sack rose to the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciated gilbert. let me go to you 1st and brussels that i paint too much of a pessimistic picture in my introduction. the end to brush is 300 year relationship with the west because the sanctions, at least the american ones will probably never come and go away. europe, we'll see how it goes. they are very, very much divided and is that as long as they are divided, those sanctions won't go away. this split is real and it's meaningful. and i don't see it mending for at least a generation is that hyperbole on my part gilbert. well, i think it's exaggerated. it's really a bit early to say,

how long this rupture will last a reorientation by russia towards these, towards the authorization, towards see a southern hemisphere is clearly proceeding and will not be stopped by anything that comes out of the relationship with the europe. it's personally on the rocks, however, the kremlin has been very careful not to burn bridges when not necessary, and to keep open options for some kind of a normal dialogue and interchange with its neighbors in europe. what, whether this will be, will play out in terms of a restoration of, of relations within a preference. i'm that you have indicated not generation from now, but in 5 years from now or less depends really on the outcome of the present military conflict. it also depends on the stability or collapse of major west european countries. yeah, we saw the government in france collapse. we see now the government engine,

u. k is collapsing. so it's early to say that these united front will last very long and that russia will be out of europe for long all that. but basically the same question to you, and i'm really glad glad that gilbert put that because i don't see the west collectively saying that they were wrong. ok, they get it. they, they're always going to blame russia for this, for, and blame russia for a european are in security architecture that failed to nato failed here. but as gilbert points out, if we have a government's fall and change than that might change the calculation, i tend to doubt it. i think we can still see government fall and still not change their position in the long term towards russia. your thoughts or i'll go ahead peter, i, i, you know, i understand both or consider i but one thing for sure. the relations will not increase and i think they will over time. but it may be, i think, 5 years a little bit too soon. i think it's standard 20 but, but for one thing is,

all of the leadership within the west. at least the main one need to fall. those governments need to be replaced. you were already starting to see that. and it's going to be the economic turmoil that'll probably push it. and i think people starting to wake up and realize what's going on. that's going to play a role in here. and i don't think you're gonna see any type of vending of relations . i don't think russia will terminate because i think they, they are pragmatic and they'll look at that. but i, i do agree that the ship to the global south with them is where they offer the 30 bar. that's where the few trips and i think basically the west is isolating. so absolutely, absolutely tennis. let me go to you and we'll get to the free and independent sovereign country against. congratulations. you're the 1st citizen that i've met from your country and it's a pleasure to have you on cross don, jenn, if you're,

if we look at the division between the west in russia you, you made it on the russian side. ok. meaning congratulations for that. of course. people, most of people in the west have no idea of the travails and problems that you have had over the last 8 years. what precipitated this war in the 1st way. so how do you see it? i mean you're, you're essentially on the border. if we see it, there's a split here, go ahead. yeah, i've been here in the globally, so front line for over 70 years again, just around the bottles of the ball civil in 2015. and since then, i've been here and building the re, bob mixing in don't bust a, bob licks. and of course, these has been to the 1st are much resistance against the globalization, against the globalism and western power structure. and what we see here, and what bring me here was that i saw already in 2017 when the merchant conference

and the gate took place in britain. that the deviation between the west and east has been a very sharp. like front line have been building step by step by step between the battery of the gracia and to global east west. and of course it don't bust as being the edge of all evens and it is today. and it was then, and of course our great victory here are bringing home for all the patches seem to will go. but let me go back to you in brussels and, and looking at this conflict in ukraine however long it last and all of us want it to end as soon as possible. ukrainians need to suffer for the hubris of the west. that's my opinion, at least. but you know, will win or lose. i mean, rush is, you know, a precious dean who won the war, it will still be considered an outsider and outcast, if it loses it. and then you'll have this attitude. well,

yes. then we must keep going further and retain, change in rush. i mean there's, there's very little in between here a bit irrespective of the outcome in the military. i'll come in ukraine. well, every thing there was held back in the past regarding the real inner force of leading cars luez towards russia has come out, has, has erupted to the surface in the last 3 months, the exchange of insults the ratio, the lofty, loving of installs to the russian president of centuries and to russia as a nation and to russian culturally. oh sorry, cancel russia campaign that is now slightly slowing down. all of this has flown relations in a, in a way that was unimaginable to cut off of travel between russia and went. and europe has changed the thinking of the russian middle glasses. and none of this

will go away any time soon. so the indelible consequences of this present time of troubles will be around with us for some time as, as my final philip panelist has indicated it or let me go to you. i mean, it's interesting with gilbert had to say because it's one of the things i found very curious is that the relationship, the way the west has with russia, there's russia has been insulted. it's been disparaged. i mean, and i mean, they've run out of bad things you can actually say, and for the longest time, the russians as kind of took it because it wasn't reciprocated. now that's beginning to change, and i think that's really, really sad. because if you're, you know, if a group of people hate you long enough, eventually you hate them back. earl. yeah, i think, you mean, just look at it. i mean, the west really do does not have any professional. my mike,

the insults that are given the accusations that are given i, it just degrades the relationships and i think at some point, you know, you hope the bear or, or let's not forget, you post the dragon too much and, and there's going to be a lash back, you know, so it's i, i think it's understandable. i think the west very naive lee. they can, they can do anything and, and nothing's going to happen then. and at some point, people going to stand up whether that's and i think this is actually an a good way . good. and i think that's giving a, they're actually speaking of not just for russia, but in a way they're speaking up for a lot of these countries that have seen their countries completely destroyed by the endless boards that are preferred in the, in the africa. and the middle east and south america, indonesia era,

the asian pacific area, i mean, really somebody needed to voice up and stand up to some, you know, sovereign countries and, and that really was not taking place in the west, kind of position them to me that what you said are so important because janice, so we have been lugens, i mean that they were fighting for that for so long and losing a lot of their citizens in the process here. dennis, it's really interesting to bring up the words sovereignty because, you know, for per 8 years the, what you had to go through and the people in the don bass was largely absent in western media. and now, you know, when people look at, you know, the origins of the conflict, oh, they have to talk about the minutes, go coord. finally, you get some agency fine, where you, people actually have a will power to control and make your own destiny. go ahead and move guns. yeah. that sir. we are living in a great new era off dorm bus in and what i see,

we are talking about the roof rack reactor and the spirit of the new patio dek russia. and it has been decided hearing dorm, but it has been decided by the the, by the. busy women cheers who have flowing here since 2014 from russia and, and hauled the people from gaskin doors, people republic to go up against the cooper my down in 2014 as an engine might and movement. but actually to non, to global movement in the field geopolitical field. and of course, that's of the russian reactor. and in russia, again, not to lose its base because he, if, if we lose to don't but we will lose the world. and we have no this that here in and understood that long time ago that this is the place where everything will be decided. and, and of course, what we see now is a big, you know, like a trembling world. because this east of all kind of channel, and this is to walk a note of patriotism and,

and it will fool up because the truth is in our site. it has been all the time in our side western mainstream media, which started in 2011. these massive, massive information war and then these hybrid operations against don't was people and the, basically all around the world. and then then we are coming to the moment where the wish of proper kind of machine is going to total peel. well, on that point there that, that the western problem machine is and the hazard law steam. it's continuing here gentlemen, i'm going to go and jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break will continue our discussion on the west split with rush and state with ah, since the break away of the doughnuts,

people's republic. whew has been ranging and don't boss. ukrainian. artillery it's been shelling civilian townsend, mining village. is that new york more? very lovely deal with what i grew up with forward, it was easily and it was other good deal about one of the subject little of as of all of the 3 of the little boys will get it was volunteer for them. ah nelson as a while you while div easy while furnace us? ah. yeah. oh yeah, it's

a fun flight. yes. south. yeah. thrashing south with that. the new dog casa boys. now watch done up all me at that a bull upright pete on the is emily, apple's goody, of whom shall i be skimmed, durham. she thought fit, he said. the y fi ela, a bianca? yes, my thought or jane. indeed again, your fortune. pity up my be a lot about this boy search for matches. ah

welcome back to cross that were all things considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the west split with russia. ah, let's go back to gilbert in brussels, gilbert and dmitri trenton, a very well known and respected mama mo geopolitical thinker has come out with a couple of articles recently, which kind of surprised me because, well, i'll be honest, that kind of, i always thought of him sitting on the fence and now he's kind of made um, very strong points. and he, in his latest article, he talks about how the global south is no longer afraid of the west and no longer respects it. and i think that accounts for a lot of things, i'm extrapolating from what earl said earlier in the program because they see, you know, when people get outraged about a conflict will, there's a lot of places the world that have been victims of conflicts that at the behest of the west and there was no moral outcry. and so i think they're kind of repaying and

saying, you know, this war is important to you, but not our war. and i think a lot of people in the global south feel that way. and that's why i said in my introduction, no rush has a lot of options. the western median never papa painted that way. they are brushes isolated. well, no. the weston is becoming more and more isolated because of it because of its neo liberal ideology. your thoughts, gilbert? oh, i'm glad that you said it to set about dmitri training, because he was on my mind as we were going into the program. i also read those articles and i was also surprised and pleased me by the positions taken out. the training was, as you say, always a consider. and one of the consequences whether i think resolve largely to the good of the present ongoing a military operation. and he says that the scissors that it opened up in russian society is that people who might take a sound. yep. and he has sounds very surprising to see that he was secretly one of

us the position to quit, the position that he outlined with respect to russia's future. and the need to learn the languages of these, of the southeast asia and of the global south. and to increase the studies of these areas and to redirect russia's interest in foreign travel adventures to that part of the world, from europe, to rethink russia's position in the world. and to in this way, that is, i think, a very solid positive contribution out of the difficult times delivering to url. basically the same point to you. i'm because he started it in the 1st part of the program. is that, i mean, if you're not, wanted in part of one part of the world white want to go there. okay. and i'm talking about europe. i mean, if the doors are being slammed in your face, i mean, you know, it takes 2 to par life. you don't want to talk,

you don't want negotiation, you don't want dialogues and turn away. and i think that's essentially what's happening. and the more you turn away, the more opportunities you see elsewhere. and so the european option, the return to the european option is not going to be it's attractive, is at once what was and i think the europeans are in peril because of that go hetero. i'd agree, peter, i mean actually i think in a way perhaps the rush became too reliance on the relationship. ready with the, with, with europe, especially, i mean, and actually europe with their cheap resource, the access and the closeness to russia. really, russia was, was acting almost like an engine for european economic growth and expansion. but they've shut that down. but for russia really, and if you look at the rest of the world, you've got the bricks, you've got the belts and road initiative, the global south, the mass of 8070 percent of the population, tons of resources, tons of human resources as well. and these people are scribing in the same ref,

amick development, russia, and with, with china in partnership and really expand that. so i think that's where the opportunity is. that's where the future growth is in the world and i think economic opportunity and and yeah, there's going to be challenges. absolutely. but, but i think this may be this shift, this fragmentation that the west is cause is actually providing russia to open their eyes of other opportunities that are out there and, and grass with them. and i think that's a positive move. well it, it will janice again, earl, is, is that spot on again? i mean, you know, as an american, i've been living in moscow for a quarter of a century and i've always been a bit taken aback of how the west is so glorified, you know, and it's the point of reference for so much. and that's beginning to change finely because neither one of the things

a lot of people in the west don't understand is that if you watch the ron national broadcast guy know, gilbert does here, is that, you know, when they, when you have lindsey graham or boris johnson, you know, saying that the worst possible things about russia, they just put it on air. i mean, you do, you don't have to interpret it. you don't have to comment on it. it just sitting right there. it is like it's soft power in reverse. okay. and i think that, you know, there's, there's, and feeling that sovereignty is earl, is pointed out. this is an idea that most of the world is interested in the west is not okay. the world is you, are, you finally have your own country. you, you fought for it very, very hard. and other countries are saying, look, we want to have prosperity to. and if the russians want to be our partner, why not? okay? and i think that this is very, very simple because of the issue of sovereignty. and it's not ideologically driven, like it is in the west. go ahead and look ganske. yeah. oh, i want to start to do my travel to the did the answer from st. petersburg,

economic forum where i was 2 weeks ago. and i was, you only finish 3 percent of the basic galindo, all big main forum of the year. and it was so sad to see how finland has closed it, still out from the real markets, from the, from the do not michel, economic development. from all these possibilities, what russia russian federation week its allies can offer for the, for the dipped written binge finnish people. and i'm sorry, not for the state, but i'm, i'm sorry for the people because they be served better. they deserve to, to have their share on the markets and, and coming down here to guns into don't. but, and of course these moments when we are getting basically ready for the referendum and we are willing to join the russian federation from our bones. of course, it means that our people have huge possibilities. our industries, our minds are, are, everything is possible when we can enter the brakes union the big global markets.

what's rot should open up for us. and, and of course it's something would every, oh, like people loving person would, should be doing like giving these opportunities and take care that the businesses ha, these markets open and what you say that the west is closing each doors. and absolutely, that is what is happening and i'm very concerned from the fee is be because of the finland in its nature drive. they are isolating themselves from the whole world basically. and what, what is given them is just a misery and, and to poor, poor leave. well, i mean, one of the things that i mean in staying with you can it's, i mean, i simply don't understand why finland and sweden when want to join, when they've had good relations during the cold war. and since the cold war with russia it today, i mean it's, it's, it,

that it missed. it defies logic here. but i want to go to another question. gilbert does the west need the russian more or does russian need, or is it the reverse with what partner needs the other more? at this given moment, i think it's safe to say that the west needs russia more than russian is the west. but things will move along in a few months, 6 months. now, the sanctions were really bite in russia 6 months from now when stocks of, of materials are already usa, when there is a convention. but you are using your logic gilbert. they have to admit that they were wrong, right? they sanctions were wrong, they hurt themselves. you think they have the political will to do that? the people in power today know, but i think it is are safe guess that many of these people will no longer be in power in 4 to 6 months from now. the troubles in western europe will begin in the

heating season in september, october where some of the more volatile political movements shayhan, france, warren, germany begin to take their, their effect on the stability of the governments and car of the presidency of the fall of johnson. and of my crone speak setback. i think it pays away for the, for the german government, very nicely developed counted yesterday on the, on johnson's pending for retirement. with john good thing that johnson at a ship of fools are leaving. if they looked in the mirror they receive, it shows is also in the head that the head of a ship of fools. so these governments will pass. no one presently in power would meant that they were wrong. you're absolutely, you know, we're all, i don't refer to miss chancellor shields. i call them sergeant schultz on this

program. i think it's appropriate. ok. and i don't think he'll be in power by the end of the year. i think you'll be gone. and hopefully his whole crew of clowns as well. but you know, in the same question to you who needs the other partner more the because you know, as gilbert is pointed out here and it, these people that they create that they teach this up for failure, okay? and i don't think they're going to take responsibility for and i think that's why going to be thrown out of power. go ahead, earl. i think i ought that. it. on the, on the one point i agree with gilbert, there's russia, you're, the west needs russian more. they are 2 critical to critical to the global global supply chain. i mean, minerals metal you're, you're being mad a girl, you're being so pragmatic. these people are idealogues. that's the problem. you think big worry a new and everything's about supply, james, keep going. yeah,

and i, i, and i think her but, but this whole, what has happened here is they've disrupted global supply chain. they weaponized the global financial system. we're bring that down as well. i think over time, and, ah, yeah, a, you know, perhaps 20 years ago russia needed them more but, but i think going forward, i think today russia is a critical component in it. and it's part of, i have to agree with henry kissinger, you rushes in important part of europe. they need to build, rebuild these bridges, the need to keep in contact i, but unfortunately with the current leadership, that's not going to happen. and i, it's unfortunate the people are, the ones are going to sacrifice. and these leaders, what, what happens? they don't real, doesn't impact them. oh, you know, when early now are all the western powers with the minsk agreements, they sacrificed the people of the don bass. now, because of their arrogance and hubris, they're sacrificing their own people here. i hope there's

a clean sweep of these bombs. okay? because no one is a winner at the end of the day. that's all the time we have gentlemen who want to take my guess in minnesota, brussels and in lieu guns. and when i think our viewers for watching us here, archy, see you next time. remember cross huffman with the sanctions package, bonds, russian flags, vassals from entering e u pools. belgium gary, lithuania, romanian tuna in italy. we're the 1st turn out that there would be close to russian ships configuring us or have her with. now there's talk of we routing oil and gas exports to asia as was myself, but i was so india to with custom commodities blue maria,

he had just removed the eastern part of the northern sea root has never been around a shore there when you trim? yes, i believe it is hid them, they might of course, but i see, but of course that ah a wrong one. i just don't know if you have to fill out this thing because the advocate and engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves well the part we choose to look for common ground

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