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[000:00:00;00] with hello and welcome to cross talk. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the west ukraine proxy war against russia is turning out to be a historical watershed. russia is 300 year relationship with the west is rapidly coming to an end. russia shipping. it's attention to the east and global south rushes game is the wes lost with cross sucking the west split with russia. i'm joined by my guest, earl rasmussen in minneapolis. he's the executive vice president of the racial center in brussels. we have gilbert carro, he is an independent, political analyst, and author of memoirs. i'm an ex pat manager in moscow during the 19 ninety's

annual gown suite cross to janice buchanan. he is chief editor of m b media. right gentlemen, costs are gross and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated gilbert. let me go to you 1st and brussels that i paint too much of a pessimistic picture in my introduction. the end of russia, 300 year relationship with the west because the sanctions, at least the american ones will probably never go away. europe, we'll see how it goes. they're very, very much divided and is that as long as they are divided, those sanctions won't go away. the split is real and it's meaningful. and i don't see it mending for at least a generation. is that high per billy in my part gilbert? well, i think it's exaggerated. it's really a bit early to say, how long this rupture will last a reorientation by russia towards these, towards the, towards asia, towards see a southern hemisphere is clearly proceeding and will not be stopped by anything that comes out of the relationship with europe. it's personally on the rocks,

however, in the kremlin, has been very careful not to burn bridges when not necessary, and to keep open options for some kind of a normal dialogue and interchange with its neighbors in europe. what, whether this will be a play out in terms of a restoration of, of relations with, in a preference. i'm that you have indicated, not generation from now, but in 5 years from now or less depends really on the outcome of the present military conflict. it also depends on the stability or collapse of major west european countries. yes, we saw the government in france collapse. we see now the government engine, u. k is collapsing. so it's early to say that the united front will last very long and that russia will be out of europe for long. what are all that? but basically the same question to you, and i'm really glad glad that gilbert put that because i don't see the west collectively saying that they were wrong. ok they, they get it. they,

they're always going to blame russia for this, for, and blame russia for a european are a security architecture that failed nato failed here. but as gilbert points out, if we have a government's fall and change than that might change the calculation, i tend to doubt it. i think we can still see government fall and still not change their position in the long term towards russia. your thoughts or i'll go ahead peter, i, i, you know, i understand both or consider i but one thing for sure. the relations will not increase and i think they will over time. but it may be, i think, 5 years a little bit too soon. i think it's standard plenty of but, but for one thing is all of the leadership within the west, at least the main one need to fall. those governments need to be replaced. you were already starting to see that. and it's going to be the economic turmoil that'll probably push it. and i think people starting to wake up and realize what's going

on. that's going to play a role in here and i don't think you're gonna see any type of bending of relations . i don't think russia will terminate it completely cuz i think they, they are pragmatic and they'll look at that. but i, i do agree that the shift to the global south with them is where the offers are. that's where the few trips and i think basically the west is isolating so absolutely, absolutely. janice, let me go to you and we'll ganske the free and independent sovereign country against. congratulations. you're the 1st citizen that i've met from your country and it's a pleasure to have you on cross talk. jen, if you're your, if we look at the division between the west in russia you, you made it on the russian side. ok, i mean, and congratulations for that. of course people, most of people in the west have no idea of the travails and problems that you have had over the last 8 years. what precipitated this war in the 1st way. so how do you

see it? i mean, you're, you're essentially on the border if we see it, there is a split here. go ahead. yeah, i've been here in the, in the article melissa for front line for over 70 years. again, just around the bottles of the ball several in 2015. and since then i've been here and building the re, bob mixing in don't, but you don't to sell to ask people who bob likes. and of course, these has been to the 1st are much resistance against the globalization, against the globalism and western power structure. and what we see here, and what bring me here was that i saw already in 2017 when the merchant conference and the gate took place in britain. that the deviation between the west and east has been a very sharp. like front line have been building step by step by step between the

battery of the gracia and to global east west. and of course don't bust as being the edge of all evens and it is today. and it was then, and of course our great victory here are bringing home for all the patriots in the world. go. but when they go back to you in brussels and, and looking at this conflict in ukraine however long it last and all of us wanted to end as soon as possible. ukrainians need to suffer for the hubris of the west. that's my opinion, at least. but you know, will win or lose. i mean, rush is a precious game who won the war, it will still be considered an outside or an outcast. if it loses it and then you'll have this attitude. well, yes. then we must keep going further and regime change in rush. i mean there's, there's very little in between here irrespective of the outcome in the military outcome and ukraine. well, everything that was held back in the past regarding the real inner force

of leading cars luez towards russia has come out, has, has erupted to the surface in the last 3 months, the exchange of insults the ratio, the lofty, loving of installs to the russian president of truth and to russia as a nation to russian culturally. oh, sorry, cancel russia campaign that is now slightly slowing down. all of this has flown relations in a, in a way that was unimaginable to cut off of travel between russia and went. and europe has changed the thinking of the russian middle glasses, and none of this will go away any time soon. so the indelible consequences of this present time of troubles will be around with us for some time as,

as my final fellow panelists that indicated it or let me go to you. i mean, it's interesting with gilbert had to say because it's one of the things i found very curious is that the relationship, the way the west has with russia, there's russia has been insulted. it's been disparaged. i mean, and i mean we, they've run out of bad things, you can actually say, and for the longest time, the russians is kind of took it because it wasn't reciprocated. now that's beginning to change, and i think that's really, really sad. because if you're, you know, if a group of people hate you long enough, eventually you hate them back. earl. yeah, i think, you mean, just look at it. i mean, the west really do does not have any professional. my mike, the insults that are given the accusations that are given i, it just degrades the relationships and i think at some point, you know, you hope the bear or, or let's not forget,

you post the dragon too much and, and there's going to be a lash back, you know, so it's i, i think it's understandable. i think the west very naive lee. they can, they could do anything and, and nothing's gonna happen there. and at some point, people are going to stand up whether that's and i think this is actually a good way, good thing. and i think that's giving a, they're actually speaking up not just for russia, but in a way there's speaking up for a lot of these countries that have seen their countries completely destroyed by the endless boards that are prepared in the, in the africa and the middle east and south america, indonesia era, the asian pacific area. i mean, really somebody needed to voice up and stand up to do some, you know, sovereign countries and, and that really was not taken place in the west kind of position them for me. but what you said it was so important because janice, so we have been lugens,

i mean that they were fighting for that for so long and losing a lot of their citizens in the process here. dennis, it's really interesting to bring up the words sovereignty because, you know, for per 8 years the, what you had to go through and the people on the don bass with largely absent in western media. and now, you know, when people look at, you know, the origins of the conflict, oh, they have to talk about the minutes, go coord. finally you get some agency find where you people actually have a will power to control and make your own destiny. go ahead and move ganske. yeah, that sir. we are living in the grange, new air off, off dawn bus in and what i see, we are talking about the roof, she on rack reactor and the spirit of the new patio to garage. and he has been decided here in dorm, but it has been decided by the the, by the. busy parent cheers. who have flowing here since 2014, from russia and,

and how the people from grass can do people republic to guard against the cooper my down in 2014 as an on to my the movement. but actually to non, the globalist movement in the queue geopolitical field. and of course, that's the russian reactor and in russia can not lose its base because he, if, if we lose to don't but we will lose the world. and we have no dis that here in and understood that long time ago that this is the place where everything will be decided. and, and of course, what we see now is a big, you know, like a trembling world because these east of all kind of channel and the system, okay. no battery of these. hm. and, and it will pull up because the truth is in our side, it has in all the timing our side, which are mainstream media, which started in 2011 these massive, massive information war. and then these hybrid operations against don't was people . and the, or basically all around the world,

and then then we are coming to the moment where the wish and proper kind of machine is going to total peel. well, on that point there that, that, that the western problem machine is, is, and the hazard law steam. it's continuing here gentlemen, i'm going to go and jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break will continue our discussion on the west split with rush and steak with for a dollar. dr. richard for the school. i hope i see

a with a ford edge that will so please enjoy it because she, somebody over there also with a with it is you know,

that way. i don't mind i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at that point, obviously is to place trust rather than fear a very job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with miss obama's protective own existence with ah, welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you were discussing the west split with russia.

ah, i can go back to gilbert in brussels, gilbert and dmitri trenton, a very well known and respected mama mo geopolitical thinker has come out with a couple of articles recently, which kind of surprised me because, well, i'll be honest with that kind of, i always thought of him sitting on the fence and now he's kind of made um some very strong points. and he, in his latest article, he talks about how the global south is no longer afraid of the west and no longer respects it. and i think that accounts for a lot of things, i'm extrapolating from what earl said earlier in the program because they see, you know, when people get outraged about a conflict will, there's a lot of places that world that have been victims of complex that at the behest of the west and there was no moral outcry. and so i think they're kind of repaying and saying, you know, this war is important to you, but not our war. and i think

a lot of people in the global south feel that way. and that's why i said in my introduction, you know, the rush has a lot of options. the western median never papa painted that way. they are brushes isolated. well, no. the weston is becoming more and more isolated because it, because of its neal liberal ideology, your thoughts, gilbert? oh, i'm glad that you said it was said about dmitri training, because he was on my mind as we were going into the program. i also read those articles and i was also surprised and pleased me by the positions taken out. the training was, as you say, always a fence sitter and one of the consequences. whether i think critical, largely to the good of the present ongoing, a military operation. and he says that the scissors that it opened up in russian society. yep. there's a particular matter. take a sound. yep. and he has a, has sounds very surprising to see that he was secretly one of us the position to quit,

the position that he outlined with respect to russia's future. and the need to learn of the languages of these, of the se, asia, and of the global south. and to increase the studies of these areas and to redirect rushes, interests in foreign travel adventures to that part of the world, from europe. to rethink russia's position in the world. and 2, in this way, that is, i think, a very solid positive contribution out of the difficult times delivering to url. basically the same point to you. i'm because he started it in the 1st part of the program, is that, i mean, if you're not wanted in part of one part of the world white want to go there. okay, and i'm talking about europe. i mean, if the doors are being slammed in your face, i mean, you know, it takes 2 to par life. you don't want to talk, you don't want negotiation, you don't want dialogues and turn away. and i think that's essentially what's happening. and the more you turn away,

the more opportunities you see elsewhere. and so the european option, the return to the european option is not going to be as attractive as it once were, was. and i think the europeans are in peril because of that go hetero. now i had agree, peter, i mean, actually, i think in a way, perhaps the rush became too reliance on the relationship with the, with the west, with europe, especially, i mean, and actually europe with their cheap resource access in the close, the russia, really, russia was, was acting almost like an engine for european economic growth and expansion. but they've shut that down. but for russia really, and if you look at the rest of the world, you've got the bricks, you've got the belt road initiative, the global south, the mass of 8070 percent of the population. tons of resources, tons of human resources as well. and these people are striving in the same breath

and amick development, russia, and with, with china in partnership and really expand that. so i think that's where the opportunity is. that's where the future growth is in the world. and i think economic opportunity and, and yeah, there's going to be challenges. absolutely. but, but i think this maybe this shift, this fragmentation that the west is cause is actually providing russia to open their eyes up to other opportunities that are out there and grasp them. and i think that's a positive move. well it, it will janice again, earl, is a spot on again. i mean, you know, as an american, i've been living in moscow for a quarter of a century and i've always been a bit taken aback of how the west is so glorified, you know, and it's the point of reference for so much. and that's beginning to change finely because neither one of the things a lot of people in the west don't understand is that if you watch the on national

broadcast guy, no gilbert does. here is that, you know, when they, when you have lindsey graham or boris johnson, you know, saying that the worst possible things about russia, they just put it on air. i mean, if you don't have to interpret it, you don't have to comment on it. it just sitting right there, and it's like it's soft power in reverse. okay? and i think that, you know, there's, there's, and feeling that sovereignty is earl is pointed out. this is an idea that most of the world is interested in the west is not okay. the world is you, are you finally have your own country, you, you fought for it very, very hard. and other countries are saying, look, we want to have prosperity to. and if the russians want to be our partner, why not? okay? and i think that this is very, very simple because of the issue of sovereignty and it's not ideologically driven, like it is in the west. go ahead and look ganske yo oh, i want to start to do my travel to the did the answer from st. petersburg economic form where i was 2 weeks ago, and i was, you only finish 3 percent of the basic galindo,

all big main forum off the year. and it was so sad to see how finland has closed it, still out from the real markets, from the, from the do not michel, economic development. from all these possibilities, what russian russian federation weak its allies can offer for the, for the dipped, read the range finished people. and i'm sorry, not for the state, but i'm, i'm sorry for the people because they be served better. they do serve to, to have their share on the markets and, and coming down here to guns into don't. but, and of course these moments when we are getting basically ready for the referendum and we are willing to join the russian federation from our bones. of course, it means that our people have huge possibilities. our industries, our minds are, are, everything is possible when we can enter the bricks union,

the big global markets. what's rot should open up for us. and, and of course it's something with every oh, like people loving person would, should be doing like giving these opportunities and take care that the businesses ha, these markets open and what you say that the west is closing each doors. and absolutely, that is what is happening and i'm very concerned from the fee is be because of the finland in its nature drive. they are isolating themselves from the whole world basically. and what, what is given them is just a misery and, and to poor poor leave. well, i mean one of the things that i mean in staying with you and janice. i mean, i simply don't understand why finland in sweden when want to join, when they've had good relations during the cold war. and since the cold war with russia today, i mean it's, it's, it's, it, it missed, it defies logic here. but i want to go to another question,

gilbert does the west need the russian more or does russian need, or is it the reverse with what partner needs the other more? at this given moment, i think it's safe to say that the west needs russia more than russia needs the west, but things will move along in a few months and 6 months the, the sanctions were really bite in russia 6 months from now when stocks of, of materials are already usa, when there is a committee, but using your logic gilbert, they have to admit that they were wrong, right? they sanctions were wrong, they hurt themselves. you think they have the political will to do that? the people in power today? no, but i think it is so safe guess that many of these people will no longer be in power in 4 to 6 months from now. the troubles in western europe will begin in the heating season in september,

october where some of the more volatile political movements shayhan france were in germany begin to take their, their effect on the stability of the governments and car of the presidency of the fall of johnson and my crone stick sec, i think, paved away for the, for the german government very nicely. the deep else could commented yesterday on the, on johnson's pending for retirement. with john good thing that johnson at the ship of fools are leaving. if they looked in the mirror they receive, it shows is also in the head that the head of a ship of fools. so these governments will pass, no one presently empowered with it, that they were wrong. you're absolutely, you know, we're all, i don't refer to miss chancellor shulty call them sergeant schultz on this program . i think it's appropriate. ok. and i don't think he'll be in power by the end of

the year. i think you'll be gone and hopefully his whole crew of clowns as well. but you know, in the same question to you who needs the more, the more the other partner more the because you know, as gilbert is pointed out here and it, these people that they create they, they teed this up for failure. ok. and i think they're going to take responsibility for and i think that's why going to be thrown out of power. go ahead, earl. i think i ought that. it on the, on the one point i agree with gilbert, there's russia, you're, the west needs russian more. they are 2 critical to critical to the global global supply chain. i mean, minerals metal rain, you know, you're being mad girl, you're being so pragmatic. these people are idealogue. that's the problem. you think victoria knew and everything about supply chains. keep going. yeah. and i, i, and i think go, but, but this whole,

what has happened here is they've disrupted global supply chain. they weaponized the global financial system will bring that down as well. i think over time. and ah, yeah, a, you know, perhaps 20 years ago russia needed them more but, but i think going forward, i think today rushes a critical component in it. and as part of i have to agree with henry kissinger, you rushes, important part of europe. they need to build, rebuild these bridges, the need to keep in contact i, but unfortunately with the current leadership, that's not going to happen. and the, it's unfortunate the people are, the ones are going to sacrifice. and these leaders, what, what happens, they don't really, doesn't impact them. oh, you know, what early now are the western powers with immense agreements? they sacrificed the people of the don bass now because of their arrogance and hubris. there are sacrificing their own people. here, i hope there's a clean sweep of these bombs, okay? because no one is a winner at the end of the day. as all the time we have gentlemen who want to take

my guess in minnesota, russell's and lugens. and when i think our viewers for watching us here in archy see you next time, remember cross hospitals with the sanctions package. barnes russian flags, vassals from entering e u pools. belgium. garalie sweeney. romania is tuna in italy with her nouns to samples would be crunched to russian ships her for her. ah, now there's talk of we rooting oil and gas exports to asia. vamos, myself, but i was so india to look at us and come on. lou morris,

he had just rebooted the eastern part of the northern sea root has never been around a year with what is his. i'm the mother of course, boy ortiz. but of course they're all ah, [000:00:00;00] with just look up for a muscle on, you know, she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on a nurse to me as place he'll but mom with his ashley of and they wanted to work

with you but not, not. but with pro phones or something like that, and then we got that voice with that assassinated on the campaign trail. japan, former prime minister in our bay has died after being shot by a lone gunman who says that he had planned the attack brushes. foreign minister urges western powers to make up their minds about what they really want ukraine be at peace talks or fight till the end. what was the oil? is this western duality damage? thanks are the main thing here is that ideology instead of the concern ukrainian citizens, the country itself or even europe,