ah, hello, and welcome to cross hawk were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle. the west ukraine proxy war against russia is turning out to be in historical watershed. russia's 300 year relationship with the west is rapidly coming to an end. russia shipping its attention to the east and global south rushes game is the wes loss with cross sucking the west split with russia. i'm joined by my guess, url rasmussen in minneapolis. he's the executive vice president of the eraser center in brussels. we have gilbert carro, he is an independent, political analyst, and author of memoirs. i'm an ex pat manager in moscow. during the 19 ninety's and in logan suite, cross to janice wood. conan, he is chief editor of m. b media. i gentleman cossack roles or the fact that needs he can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated gilbert. let me go to you 1st and brussels. did i paint too much of a pessimistic picture in my introduction. the end brushes 300 year relationship

with the west because the sanctions, at least the american ones will probably never come and go away. europe. we'll see how it goes. they're very, very much divided and is that as long as they are divided, those sanctions won't go away. this split is real and it's meaningful. and i don't see it mending for at least a generation. is that hyperbole and my part gilbert? well, i think it's exaggerated, it's really a bit early to say, how long this rupture will last a reorientation by russia towards these, towards the, towards asia, toward c. a southern hemisphere is clearly proceeding and will not be stopped by anything that comes out of the relationship with the europe. it's personally on the rocks. however, the kremlin has been very careful not to burn bridges when not necessary, and to keep open options for some kind of

a normal dialogue and interchange with its neighbors in europe. what, whether this will be, will play out in terms of a restoration of, of relations within a preference either you have indicated, not generation from now, but in 5 years from now or less depends really on the outcome of the present military conflict. it also depends on the stability or collapse of major west european countries. yeah, we saw the governments in france collapse. we see now the government engine, u. k is collapsing. so it's early to say that these united front will last very long and that russia will be out of europe for long. what are all that? but basically the same question to you, and i'm really glad glad that gilbert put that because i don't see the west collectively saying that they were wrong. ok, they get it. they, they're always going to blame russia for this, for, and blame russia for a european r, a security architecture that failed to nato failed here. but as gilbert points out,

if we have governments fall and change than that might change the calculation, i tend to doubt it. i think we can still see government fall in still not changed their position in the long term towards russia. your thoughts or i'll go ahead peter, i, i, you know, i understand both or consider i but one thing for sure. the relation will not increase and i think they will over time. but it may be, i think, 5 years a little bit too soon. i think it's standard plenty of but, but for one thing is all of the leadership within the west, at least the main one need to fall. those governments need to be replaced. your were already starting to see that. and it's going to be the economic turmoil that'll probably push it. and i think people starting to wake up and realize what's going on. that's going to play a role in here. and i don't think you're gonna see any type of vending of relations . i don't think russia will terminated because i think they,

they are pragmatic and they'll look at that. but i, i do agree that the shift to the global south with them is where the offer thirties are. that's where the future is. and i think basically the west is isolating so absolutely, absolutely. janice, let me go to you and we'll get the free and independent sovereign country against. congratulations. you're the 1st citizen that i've met from your country and it's a pleasure to have you on cross don, jenn, if you're, if we look at the division between the west in russia you, you made it on the russian side. ok. meaning congratulations for that. of course. people, most of people in the west have no idea of the travails and problems that you have had over the last 8 years. what precipitated this war in the 1st way. so how do you see it? i mean you're, you're essentially on the border. if we see it, there is a split here. go ahead. yeah, i've been here in the article bullish to front line for over 70 years again,

just around the bottles of the ball civil in 2015. and since then, i've been here and building the re, bob mixing in don't, but you don't have a box. and of course, these has been to the 1st are much resistance against the globalization, against the globalism and western power structure. and what we see here, and what bring me here was that i saw already in 2007 g when dimension conference and the gate took place in britain. that the deviation between the west and east has been very sharp, like frontline, have been building step by step by step between the battery of the gracia and to global east west. and of course it don't bust as being the edge of all evens and it is today, and it was then, and of course,

our great victory here are bringing home for all the patches seem to will go. but when they go back to you in brussels and, and looking at this conflict in ukraine however long it last and all of us wanted to end as soon as possible, ukrainians need to suffer for the hubris of the west. that's my opinion, at least. but you know, will win or lose. i mean, rush is, you know, a precious game who won the war, it will still be considered an outsider and outcast, if it loses it. and then you'll have this attitude. well, yes. then we must keep going further and regime change in rush. i mean there's, there's very little in between here a bit, irrespective of the outcome in the military. i'll come in ukraine. well, every thing there was held back in the past regarding the real inner force of leading cars luez towards russia has come out, has, has erupted to the surface in the last 3 months, the exchange of in souls, the ratio, the lofty,

loving of installs to the russian president of truth and to russia as a nation and to russian culturally the whole, sorry, cancel russia campaign that is now slightly slowing down. all of this says relations in a, in a way that was unimaginable to cut off of travel between russia and went. and europe has changed the thinking of the russian middle glasses and none of this will go away any time soon. so the indelible consequences of this present time of troubles will be around with us for some time as, as my fellow panelists indicated in earl, let me go to you. i mean, is interesting with gilbert had to say because it's one of the things i found very curious is that the relationship, the way the west has with russia,

there's russia has been insulted. it's been disparaged. i mean, and i mean, they've run out of bad things you can actually say, and for the longest time, the russians has kind of took it because it wasn't reciprocated. now that's beginning to change, and i think that's really, really sad. because if you're, you know, if a group of people hate you long enough, eventually you hate them back. earl. yeah, i think, you mean, just look at it. i mean, the west really do does not have any professional left. my mike, the insults that are given the accusations that are given i, it just degrades the relationships and, and i think at some point, you know, you hope the bear or, or let's not forget, you post the dragon too much and, and there's going to be a lash back, you know, so it's i, i think it's understandable. i think the west very naive lee. they can,

they can do anything and, and nothing's going to happen then. and at some point, if we're going to stand up whether that's and i think this is actually an a good way. good. and i think that's giving a, they're actually speaking up not just for russia, but in a way they're speaking up for a lot of these countries that have seen their countries completely destroyed by the endless war that occurred in the, in the africa and the middle east. and south america, indonesia, era, the asian pacific area, i mean, really somebody needed to voice up and stand up to do some, you know, sovereign countries and, and that really was not taking place in the west, kind of position them to me that what you said are so important because janice, so we have been lugens mean that they were fighting for that for so long and losing a lot of their citizens in the process here. dennis, it's really interesting to bring up the words sovereignty because, you know,

for per 8 years the, what you had to go through and the people in the don bass with largely absent in western media. and now, you know, when people look at, you know, the origins of the conflict, oh, they have to talk about the minutes, go coord. finally, you get some agency fine, where you, people actually have a will power to control and make your own destiny. go ahead and move ganske. yes sir, we are living in the grange. you are also doing a bus. and what i see, we are talking about the roof rack reactor and the spirit of the new battery of the garage. and it has been decided hearing dorm, but it has been decided by the, the, by the volunteers who have flowing here since 2014, from russia and, and how the people of grass can do as people republic to guard against the cooper my down in 2014 as a non to my dance movement, but actually it's not the globalist movement in the field geopolitical field. and

of course, that's of the russian reactor. and in russia, again, not to lose its base because he, if, if we lose to don't but we will lose the world. and we have no this that here and understood that long time ago that this is the place where everything will be decided. and, and of course, what we see now is a big, you know, like a trembling world because the east of all kind of cable and the just of ok, no patriotism. and it will pull up because the truth is in our side, it has been all the time in our side, the western mainstream media, which started in 2011 these massive, massive information war. and then these hybrid operations against don't with people . and the basic gun all around the world. and then then we are coming to the moment where the wish of proper kind of machine is going to total peel. well, on that point there that,

that the western problem machine is and the has the law steam. it's continuing here, gentlemen, i'm going to go jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break will continue our discussion on the west split with rush and state with with a look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point obviously is too late. trust rather than fear i would like to take on various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with

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is come out with a couple of articles recently, which kind of surprised me because well, i'll be honest, that kind of always thought of him sitting on the fence and now he's kind of made and some very strong points. and he, in his latest article, he talks about how the global south is no longer afraid of the west and no longer respects it. and i think that accounts for a lot of things, i'm extrapolating from what earl said earlier in the program because they see, you know, when people get outraged about a conflict will, there's a lot of places the world that have been victims of conflicts that at the behest of the west and there was no moral outcry. and so i think they're kind of repaying and saying, you know, this war is important to you, but not our war. and i think a lot of people in the global south feel that way. and that's why i said in my introduction, no rush has a lot of options. the western median never papa painted that way. they are brushes isolated. well, no. the weston is becoming more and more isolated because of it because of its neal liberal ideology. your thoughts, gilbert?

oh, i'm glad it. you said it was said about to me trade training because he was on my mind as we were going into the program. i also read those articles and i was also surprised and pleased me by the positions bacon v. a training was, as you say, always a consider. and one of the consequences whether i think resolve largely to the good of the present ongoing a military operation. and he says that the scissors that it opened up in russian society is that people will buy to take a sound. yep. and he has sounds very surprising to see that he was secretly one of us. this is the quote, the position that he outlined with respect to russia's future and the need to learn the languages of these, of the se, asia, and of the global south. and to increase the studies of these areas and to redirect

rushes, interests in foreign travel adventures. to that part of the world, from europe, to rethink russia's position in the world. and to in this way that that is, i think, a very solid positive contribution out of the difficult times delivering food. earl, basically the same point to you, i'm because he started it in the 1st part of the program, is that, i mean, if you're not wanted in part of one part of the world white want to go there. okay, and i'm talking about europe. i mean, if the doors are being slammed in your face, i mean, it takes to, to par life. you don't want to talk, you don't want negotiation, you don't want dialogues and turn away. and i think that's essentially what's happening. and the more you turn away, the more opportunities you see elsewhere. and so the european option, the return to the european option is not going to be it's attractive is at once what was and i think the europeans are in peril because of that go hetero. no, i'd agree peter. i mean, actually, i think in

a way to have the rush became too reliance on the relationship with the, with the west, with europe, especially, i mean, and actually europe with their cheap resource access in the close to russia. really, russia was, was acting almost like an engine for european economic growth and expansion. but they've shut that down. but for russia really, and if you look at the rest of the world, you've got the bricks, you've got the belts and road initiative, the global south, the mass of 8070 percent of the population, tons of resources, tons of human resources as well. and these people are scribing in the same ref, amick development, russia, and with, with china in partnership and really expand that. so i think that's where the opportunity is. that's where the future growth is in the world and i think economic opportunity and and yeah, there's going to be challenges. absolutely. but,

but i think this may be this shift, this fragmentation that the west is cause is actually providing russia to open their eyes of other opportunities that are out there and, and grass with them. and i think that's a positive move. well it, it will janice again, earl, is, is spot on again. i mean, you know, as an american, i've been living in moscow for a quarter of a century and i've always been a bit taken aback of how the west is so glorified, you know, and it's the point of reference for so much. and that's beginning to change finely because neither one of the things a lot of people in the west don't understand is that if you watch the on national broadcast guy, no gilbert does. here is that, you know, when they, when you have lindsey graham or boris johnson, you know, saying that the worst possible things about russia, they just put it on air. i mean, either you don't have to interpret it. you don't have to comment on it. it just sitting right there, and it's like it's soft power in reverse. okay?

and i think that, you know, there's, there's, and feeling that sovereignty is earl is pointed out. this is an idea that most of the world is interested in the west is not okay. the world is you, are you finally have your own country, you, you fought for it very, very hard. and other countries are saying, look, we want to have prosperity to. and if the russians want to be our partner, why not? okay? and i think that this is very, very simple because of the issue of sovereignty, and it's not ideologically driven, like it is in the west. go ahead and look ganske. yeah. oh, i want to start to do my travel to the did the answer from st. petersburg economic form where i was 2 weeks ago, and i was, you only finish 3 percent of the basie galindo, all big main forum of the year. and it was so sad to see how finland has closed it, still out from the real markets, from the, from the do not michel, economic development from all these abilities. what russia russian federation week

its allies can offer for the, for the dipped written binge finnish people. and i'm sorry, not for the state, but i'm, i'm sorry for the people because they deserve better. they deserve to, to have their share on the markets and, and coming down here to the guns into don't. but, and of course these moments when we are getting basically ready for the referendum and we are willing to join the russian federation from our bones. of course, it means that our people have huge possibilities. our industries, our minds are, are, everything is possible when we can enter the brakes union the big global markets. what's rot should open up for us. and, and of course it's, it's something would every, oh, like people loving person would, should be doing like giving these opportunities and take care that the businesses

ha, these markets open and what you say that the west is closing each doors. and absolutely, that is what is happening and i'm very concerned from the fee is be because of the field and in its nature drive, they are isolating themselves from the whole world basically. and what, what is given them is just a misery and, and to poor, poor living. well, i mean, one of the things that i mean in staying with you can it's, i mean, i simply don't understand why finland and sweden when want to join, when they've had good relations during the cold war. and since the cold war with russia it today, i mean it's, it's, it, it missed, it defies logic here. but i want to go to another question. gilbert does the west need the russian more or does russian need, or is it the reverse with what partner needs the other more? at this given moment, i think it's safe to say that the west needs russia more than russia. nice the west . but things will move along in a few months and 6 months. the,

the sanctions will really bite in russia 6 months from now when stocks of, of materials are already usa. when there is a conventionally using your logic gilbert, they have to admit that they were wrong, right? they sanctions were wrong, they hurt themselves. you think they have the political will to do that? the people in power today know, but i think it is are safe guess that many of these people will no longer be in power in 4 to 6 months from now. the troubles in western europe will begin in the heating season, mid september, october, where some of the more volatile political movements shayhan france, warren, germany begin to take their, their effect on the stability of the governments and car of the presidency of the fall of johnson. and of my crone speak setback. i think it pays away for the

for the german government, very nicely developed counted yesterday on the, on johnson's pending for retirement. with john good thing that johnson at the ship of fools are leaving. if they looked in the mirror they receive, it shows is also in the head that the head of a ship of fools. so these governments will pass no one presently and power would meant that they were wrong. you're absolutely, you know, we're all, i don't refer to miss chancellor shields. i call them sergeant schultz on this program. i think it's appropriate. ok. and i don't think he'll be in power by the end of the year. i think you'll be gone. and hopefully his whole crew of clowns as well. but you know, in the same question to you who needs the other partner more the because you know, as gilbert is pointed out here and it, these people that they create they, they teed this up for failure. ok. and i don't think they're going to take

responsibility for and i think that's why going to be thrown out of power. go ahead, earl i, i think i ought that. on the, on the one point i agree with gilbert, there's a, russia, you're, the west needs russian more. they are too critical to critical to the global global supply chic. i mean, minerals, metals, you're really when you're being, you're being so fragmatic girl, you're being so pragmatic. these people are ideologues. that's the problem. you think victoria new and ever thinks about supply. james, keep going. yeah, and i, i, and i think her but, but this whole, what has happened here is they've disrupted global supply chain. they weaponized the global financial system. we're bring that down as well. i think over time. and, ah, yeah, a, you know, perhaps 20 years ago russia needed them more but, but i think going forward, i think, to day russia is

a critical component in it. and it's part of, i have to agree with henry kissinger, you rushes in important part of europe. they need to build, rebuild these bridges, the need to keep in contact i, but unfortunately with the current leadership, that's not going to happen. and i, it's unfortunate the people are the ones are going to sacrifice ah, these leaders what, what happens? they don't real dunden with them. oh, you know, when early now are all the western powers with the minsk agreements, they sacrificed the people of the don bass. now, because of their arrogance and hubris, there are sacrificing their own people here. i hope there's a clean sweep of these bombs. okay? because no one is a winner at the end of the day as all the time we have gentlemen who want to take my guess in minnesota, brussels and in lieu guns. and what i think our viewers for watching us here in archy see you next time. remember, cross muscles these

functions, package bombs, russian flags vessels from entering e u pools belgium bowl garalie sweeney romanian. sooner and equally with test, her announced that their post would be close to russian ships configuring us or have her with her. i now there's talk of we routing oil and gas exports to asia as most myself, but i so india to look at us and come on blue smoke. he had just removed the eastern part of the northern sea root has never been around a little cold with food, but i see it. but of course that, okay,

ah, with the middle east conflict in the city and conflict under development in africa or in south america and asia. interestingly, none of these are being raised in the past 6 months. so not a problem with

a ah, these here is it particularly nasty thing. this is called, i leave my and they are all over our correspondent explore as a once embattled oil refinery and the low gone for the city of louis chance, where he discovered scores of band munitions allegedly planted by ukrainian troops before they fled. china's you won, gains ground on the us dollar as a new survey shows, 85 percent of the world's central banks either hold or intend to hold. the chinese natural currency can years government passes, blame for to food crisis on.