ah ah with me hello, welcome to well the part historically here has been the center stage for humanities longest and bloodiest wars and judging by the recent events in and around your brain that it may not before we over asia, on the other hand is bodies enormous diversity has seen relatively few ras with

conflicts. much of this type of weakness that was inflamed or fueled from the outside. but the east continues to gain strength and the west continues to founder can be asian tigers, heaved themselves from becoming too territorial to discuss it. and now joined by actually comes from the poly professor of chinese studies at the job. a university in new delhi professor. it's great to see a great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. sign up on right now. let's start with something that is very close to home. my home. that is, i, that i mean, because your plan is to enter a 6 month you roll before that despite its remote, as it has many implications for countries around the world. what would you say is its main effect on asia and specifically on the political and power dynamics within the continent. i can go full factor so we can learn

from the conflict on in the last 121 days. one is the leadership stringent rules and responsibilities. there is a lot of title walking here by all the leaderships. the address lines are clear. however, the lawsuit of these are, and the result of these hasn't become problematic in the past 6 months since february 20 for the title walking is done by russia, ukraine, euro united states, china, india, ah, every other country is doing this tightrope. walk number one, number 2 is the water preparation. i won't be heard about the some of the russian general saying by march 5th to beverly lined up be all

operations special operations. however, we are still looking at those in our military campaigns. there is a huge logistics that is necessary. national mobilization is necessary or any kind of company. and we also seen the relative to success of grown warfare. in this conflict, i interviewed here for a 2nd because i know you have 2 other points to mention, but on this point of, you know, russian generals supposedly mentioning some deadline. where did you hear that? because i'm a russian, i follow the local media very, very attentively. and i think one of the specific features of this operation is that both the government, you know, i'm in the kremlin, the leadership of a lot of them and put in as well as his army circles. they didn't send any

deadlines from the south for this specific reason of not limiting themselves. so where is this idea of them on the operation being too long comes from i read this, read your saw, does read your telegram by russian gender. and the quick outcome of the wall. and of course there was a mention of our b, a minimum possible agenda that he's the ukrainian neutrality medical expansion. and the no ballistic decided deployments by the nato in the russian borders. and he was just one of the generals because we can take it as his expert or private opinion because as i'm sure you would agree that nobody can predict the outcome of the war or the ration over over

a military operation at the, at the side, then the scene is trajectory change a couple of times because there was initially a move towards peace talks in turkey. and then the strategy on the western part seemed to have changed with more and more ours being santia crane. so if i were to ask you, how long do you think it's going to go for russia, he's the one of the best military forces in the, or it used to be a superpower under the soviet union. and it has a lot of just forces and military operations have been 100. yes. if you have to trace back from the saudis, russians who have blocked the napoleon in the french, your sand. so then you cumulatively take all this, russia,

he's a major military power and we have already spent about 6 months. and ukraine is a very small country. also the kind of farm forces they have could have been wizard of a, in the missions can't use it. so it is surprising for me the war dragged on for a long time. i can't put it on point figure for the the deadline or a time frame. because as you mentioned, the weapons are coming from site and the united states commented or are $2000000000.00 for this. and natal are commercial also supply material. so it looks like it more for long. what i was trying to see is that the, the kind of logistics been necessary for this car long golf is a nightmare. they ammunition the full reference,

spare parts of water, no required for this kind of a credible conventional and parents capabilities and the date. this is another factor in any future off including the current one. and the 3rd lesson from this conflict, i would imagine, is the economic preparedness, especially in terms of comprehensive national power. this concept came up during the soviet times, the americans copied it. and everybody else today is copying this concept of comprehensive national power. this need to be built up before anybody is

willing to go for a conflict. as far as russia is concerned, it see self sufficiency as a mass not only for war times, but also for the times of peace. because especially when you look the at the full back from this war and the disruption in production change sanctions that affect not only russia, but many countries that have absolutely nothing to do with the conflict in your brain. isn't that actually one of the, you know, silver linings of this bloody and horrible conflict that more and more countries are sort of looking into how to leave by their own means. and by that own wisdom and logic, rather than taking and ready solutions and advice from the powers that be that the powers that be that change the rules of the game as they go, as we have seen. because, you know, the rules of free trade and all those international agreements that are supposed to safeguard international trade, they're not functioning anymore. yes,

i agree to proposition. what i was trying to enlist is one of the lessons that we learn so far. and the economic preparedness in the light of day energy crisis, the full crisis. the sanctions there decompressing, there was an inflation in much of the rest of the or india is really tourist 7.8 percent inflation. and many other countries are actually both b, b, a person trademarks. and so there is a possibility for recession for long the recession. so i was just to alluding to this economic consequences of the global community has to face. and this also suggest the disruption to supply chain mechanisms all

across. and obviously it will have an impact on it was already in this. i also wanted to say that this conflict, the special operation, had also deserted in the matter to wall. all the flow of the city that is so one cannot simply say one this game at the moment, not at your war is also very important. and this is where the conversations like this are important for us. so i was just building to this consequences of conflict . i reviewed supposedly that it is important to have those conversations and it's becoming i have to tell you increasingly more difficult because a channel like mine is blocked in on many western last social media. when you think about it, it's not just, you know, the work order in russia and the west,

as you pointed out, the consequences of all discretion affect everybody around the world. not only because of rashes, actions, but also because of the west and sanctions. now, can i ask you, you know, in a situation like this, there is always a question about who is to blame or who is to be held responsible. and americans, by an administration, is blaming the russians not only for the war in ukraine, but also for their own inflation. but it is pretty clear to anyone who is advocated that the americans, a certain point, decided that the rest of the world can bear the consequences of them. punishing russia. do you think that's something that the world is ready to accept? do you see any changes in how the global politics called the global economy will be around in the future as a result of the americans and the west, in general, making a decision,

a conscious decision to penalize everybody in the world because they want to punish russia if you're speaking about the majority of the countries, them down, either neutral or have been in the bank of the consequences of the contract, for example, the global so much of the fuel prices is impacting on them. i would also say the vaccine distribution not related to this company because of the kobe and a make up. that is the united nations in issue on the backside distribution for the global salt. developing countries, even not has been affected. partly because of this conflict. as the many western countries are already the vaccines, they want to double vaccinate, triple vaccinate, or do vaccines 5 times or 10 times. because until there's been

a holding of these vaccines by the not the global lot. diversity is packaging this as a kind of existential to them. but the majority of the countries are a basically looking at the impact of the energy prices, the food prices, inflation and you know, many of the issues, for instance, the, the middle east conflict, the city and conflict, the under development in africa, or in south america and asia interestingly, none of these are being raised in the past 6 months. yeah. so, so that indicates that the whole narrative has been shifted to conflict in ukraine. and so that is more of the global. so as we not hearing that,

please listen to us. you know, we also exist, we have a lot of problems that need to be resort. and especially in come to the end of me, the vaccine just nobody is talking about the so i think that he's a, if you're asking for a majority of the countries concerned about daily bread and barto related issues rather than the yeah, the conflict i so as such, i said, we have to take a short break for the time being, but we will be back to this discussion in a few minutes station. ah, for ah, ah.

with no deductible. which one you barbara, charlotte, where's the one up with a question. get with ah

welcome back to the point where the street come come. the police professor of china cited at the gym or her little narrow university in your daily professor before the break we were talking about the impact of this conflict on many countries. but you specialize in chinese affairs and i want to ask you specifically about china and india because as much as these 2 countries treat each other with suspicion, i think they reactive to this crisis in, in a pretty similar way. both governments, as you said, walk type type role. both governments have benefited greatly from buying oil of, from russia as the discounted prices. i think it benefited much more than china. i think your supplies of russian oil increased more than 8 times. and since the beginning of, of the year, how do you think this whole conundrum will influence the dynamics that's been this

to asian giants i you began with some of it to be sure from you talk to us to, to asia in the case of china and india, although we began almost at the same level china did in the growth rates as part of the organizations program in 1978 till recently been growing at a 10 percent growth rate. now it just come down less than 3 percent. 4 percent, roughly. i want to call as medium high rates. in the case of in your view just began with the growth rates and we are expected to florida on 8 percent of it is hard for a country like india to clock back much of growth rate. but we are doing the new schemes that are being proposed by the government of the day.

the current aspect is you mentioned china. i mean there is a lot of conflict going on between the tool, especially july, june 15th night, 2020. we had about 20 indian soldiers killed and estimated on, accounted for chinese water killed in this. the chinese government after 8 months declared about 4 people. in this conflict bart das news agency mentioned 45 people in china. so maybe somewhere between $4.00 to $45.00 or even beyond what is important is that be signed a lot of agreements. oksana you mentioned about the russian agreements with the u. s. and the nato countries, china and india have signed several agreements,

$993.00. the sent congress meant 1996 for building measures in rehab for also the 2003. i'm not in the petrol agreement because the dcf border defense ball person. i'm several of the protocols. me sign a bar to on june 15th to none of these matters really and the killing clea rental on for a whole night that night. and we were actually because if they sign an agreement with china in future, what would be the consequence of this? like water, it happened on june 15th, i'd like to try to charge a lot of lot of lot going on. but i think you would agree that the amount of blood is i'm comparable to what we have now. it's in the russians and the ukranian say the extent of the cranium conflict is far more

terrifying. horrible. i mean, i say that as a russian with ukraine origins and i still have relatives in enough countries. it, it's a huge pain and i think we will bear the consequences of it both economic, social and human consequences, moral consequences of it for they gets to come. having said that, i think it's pretty clear that the americans are trying to utilize india in dia, rivalry with china, through or through some other measures to sort of bring a indian more forcefully into the western camp. having seen how the americans can keep their promises, be it in afghanistan or even in ukraine. do you think india can rely, safely rely on the americans in maritime affairs and security issues, et cetera?

well, in the toward the ard meeting, communist or more of the core president biden, darn the ukraine and crisis is continental. and so it's not part of the quite agenda. so weren't he was trying to mention is by for both of these and indian foreign policy, we have what we mention as strategic our tanami. as you know, we followed the non alignment moment before recently the exist on the independent foreign policy and strategy card on me and, and so i don't think the u. s. in get relation should not be kind of exaggerated. like everybody is previously in russia. absolutely. even know, china is heavily dependent on the american sci the stock exchanges

moment. the might be national corporations that have invested in these countries is following the same path as the russians did since 91 of the chinese since 1978. i'm showing that anywhere, well, at least in the anywhere in a good place, at least in the case of russian increasingly in the case of china. so do you think it's really worthwhile for india to follow in these 2 countries? i know, basically i was trying to say that at any country which wants to modernize, especially in infrastructure, they need a lot of capital and that lead a lot of technology and, and need a lot of, you know, the, the stock exchange is a symbolic gestures and these are necessary for any country which are modernizing and china exploited this substantially since

1978. and so i was just mentioning that any country which wants to have these mortem gadgets, et cetera, we have to open up as this a part of the globalization. the larger picture i was trying to suggest did is a conflict between china and india. and then the defense minister of india went to moscow in september of 2018 of the receive 2 or 3 wanted in order to conduct china. india already us. so what i was trying to see is that frustrating good relations did a lot of depth previously and even now and then that is a conflict with china. we know where to go for, for the sustenance, military sustenance, and so on. our time is running out. i want to try to squeeze in one more question

about the tigers. i am, i want to close chairman now the founder of the people's republic of china, who said was that when someone is trying to wake a tiger a he or she needs to make sure that it has a long enough see now clearly the washington is now trying to contain what they call containing china. do you think they, if we use the stick as a matter for, for the americans try to do thing. it's 4 sided and i do think it's long enough. oh, trust. i don't think the americans are contained in china, both china and america hybrid g tool, as obama mentioned once in 2009. i think this is a misnomer that containing china, china contacting us. they have a $780000000000.00 trade in debt or shared trade is $8000000000.00. china us trade is $780000000000.00. and every day prior to the time to make

6000 people cross off from the u. s, which kind of, i said was so and so there is no containment. the soviet union was contained by the u. s. there, there was no trade, no investment, no market, no contract. that doesn't exist between us and china. i don't think there is any containment. the chinese keep flagging this just as a part of their defensive mechanism. bart, this is to put the americans in place by flagging containment pieces all the time. i don't think in fact, china usaa relations are more stable and more having more stir digit dept than us into relations all to us and i showed earlier. so, oh, do that because i mean it's not just the chinese for using it. it's also, it's in all american strategic documents that china is a, is

a major rival for them that needs to be, that are also put in place. why do you think that americans continue with this pretty and friendly just for us? and it went on not only under the trump administration, it continues under the biden administration in the recent times since leg trump, we have seen that kind of language. but even the chinese use the same language. chinese strategic experts use the same language as the u. s. dark doesn't really disturb their trade investment people to contact. so what i was trying to say is this is not aren't in between time and less. they're heavily dependent on each other. and of course they can say anything, the longer telegram or the white house national security strategy creating or others. nevertheless, what is important is to have more dept in the us trade is $100000000.00

on china. us treated as a just mention 708 and there is more chinese investment in the u. s. their total chinese investment in india is $8000000000.00 for the 16 trillion dollar the economy. just about $8000000000.00 in india. our chinese investment outside is $1.00 trillion dollars. majority of that, or a large part of it is in the u. s. i in canada and europe. so what i was trying to say is funny about b d statements given by the chinese ministers. and if you aren't a, b, b, there is a strategic depth between them. china, your trade is over $600000000000.00 and china's investment in c plus 17 countries is quite huge. italy,

spain are all of those countries. fortunately, greece and spain, the investment in these bags on board is now functioning in any of the countries with infrastructure projects. and i just wanted say that these are all, it's no words. we have to see hard facts before we say that it is a content for 2nd of all, we have to leave it there. one that one last thing that i would add is that there was also a lot of interdependence within russia. western europe or says they did not for that, you know, these 2 powers from, you know, going into a direct conflict in your brain. so, but i quote that the experience will serve as a, as a warning to other international players. anyway, we have to leave it there. thank you very much for your insights today. thank you. and thank you for watching cold to syria again with

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