so that i'm now joined by she comes from the poly professor of chinese studies at the job. hello, natalie university in new delhi. progress. it is great to see a great you talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for the invite shout. let's start with something that is very close to home. my home. that is by that i mean the conflict is to enter it's 6 months. you're wrong before that, despite it's remoteness, it has many implications for countries around the world. what would you say is its main effect on asia? as specifically on the political and power dynamics within the continent? i can go full factor so we can learn from the conflict on in the last 131 days. one is the leadership stringent rules and responsibilities. there is

a lot of title walking here by all the leaderships. the address lines are clear. however, the lawsuit of these are and the result of these hasn't become problematic in the past 6 months since february 24. the title walking is done by russia, ukraine, euro united states, china, india, ah, every other country is doing this tightrope walk number one. number 2 is the water preparation. i will be heard about the song, the russian jungle thing by march, 5th, to beverly wind up be all operations special operations. however, we are still looking at those in our military campaigns. and there is a huge logistics that isn't necessary. national mobilization is necessary

or any kind of conflict. and we also seen the parameter to success of drone warfare in this conflict. i inter here here for a 2nd because i know you have 2 other points to mention. but on this point of, you know, russian generals supposedly mentioning some deadline, ways you hear that because i'm a russian, i follow the local media very, very attentively. and i think one of the specific features of this operation is that both the government, you know, i'm in the kremlin, the leadership of letting them put in, as well as his army circles. they didn't send any deadlines from the south, which for this specific reason of not limiting themselves. so where is this idea of them on the operation being too long comes from i read this, read your saw this video in kilogram by russian gender. and

the quick outcome of the wall. and of course there was a mention of all the minimum possible agenda that he's the ukrainian neutrality medical expansion. and the law ballistic decided deployments by the nato in the russian borders. and he was just one of the generals because we can take it as he is asked for the private opinion, because as i'm sure you would agree that nobody can predict the outcome of the war or the ration over over a military operation. at the, at the side then the scene is trajectory change a couple of times because there was initially a move towards peace talks in turkey. and then the strategy on the western part seemed to have changed with more and more ours being santia crane. so if i were to

ask you, how long do you think it's going to go for russia, he's the one of the best military forces in the, or it used to be a power under the soviet union. and it has a lot of just forces and military operations have been 100. yes. if you have to trace back from those artist russians who have blocked the napoleon in the french, your sand. so then you cumulatively take all this, russia, he's a major military power and we have already spent about 6 months. and ukraine is a very small country, also the kind of farm forces they have could have been wizard of

a and the missions can't use it. so it is surprising for me the war dragged on for a long time. i can't put it on point figure for the the deadline or a time frame. because as you mentioned, the weapons are coming from site and the united states commented or are $2000000000.00 for this. and natal partner. so supply material. so it looks like it more for long when i was trying to see the, the kind of logistics been necessary for this car long golf is a nightmare. the ammunition, the full, the reference, spirit, arts of to order no required for this kind of a credible conventional and parents

capabilities and will be the. this is another factor in any future off including the current one of course. and the 3rd lesson from this conflict, i would imagine, is the economic preparedness, especially in terms of comprehensive national power. this concept came up during the soviet times, the americans copied it. and everybody else today is copying this concept of comprehensive national power. this need to be built up before anybody is willing to go for a conflict. that's why russia is concerned, it see self sufficiency as a mass not only for war times, but also for the times of peace. because especially when you look the at the full back from this war and the destruction in production changed sanctions that affect

not only russia, but many countries that have absolutely nothing to do with the conflict in your brain. isn't that actually one of the, you know, silver linings of this bloody and horrible conflict that more and more countries are sort of looking into how to leave by their own means. and by that own wisdom and logic, rather than taking a ready solutions and advice from the powers that be that the powers that be that change the rules of the game as they go, as we have seen. because, you know, the rules of free trade and all those international agreements that are supposed to safeguard international trade, then not functioning anymore. yes, i agree to position work i was trying to enlist is one of the lessons that we learn so far. and the economic preparedness in the light of day energy crisis. the full price is on the sanctions there. decompressing there

was an inflation in much of the rest of the or india is really tourist 7.8 percent inflation and many other countries are actually about b b, a person page marks. and so there is a possibility for recession for long the recession. so i was just to alluding to this economic consequences that the global community has to face. and this also suggest the disruption to supply chain mechanisms all across. and obviously it will have an impact on it was already in this. i also wanted to say that this conflict, the special operation, had also deserted in the matter to wall all the handle

of the city. that is. so one cannot simply say one this game at the moment, not at your war, is also very important. and this is where the conversations like this are important for us. so i was just building to this consequences of conflict with you totally that it is important to have those conversations. and it's becoming hard to tell you increasingly more difficult because a channel like mine is blocked it on many western last social media. when you think about it, it's not just, you know, the work order in russia and the west, as you pointed out, the consequences of all discretion affect everybody around the world. not only because of rushes, actions, but also be because of the west and sanctions. now, can i ask you, you know, in a situation like this, there is always

a question about who is to blame or who is to be held responsible and americans. vitamin ministration is blaming the russians, not only for the war in ukraine, but also for their own inflation. but it is pretty clear to anyone who is advocated that the americans assassin point decided that the rest of the world can bear the consequences of them. punishing russia, do you think that's something that the world is ready to accept? do you see any changes in how the global politics called the global economy will be around in the future as a result of the americans and the western general, making a decision, a conscious decision to penalize everybody in the world because they want to punish russia. if you're speaking about the majority of the countries down, either neutral or have been in the bank of the consequences of the contract,

for example, the global so much of the fuel prices is impacting on them. i would also say the vaccine distribution not related to this company because of the call we can make up. that is the united nations in issue on the back seat distribution for the global salt. developing countries un dot has been effected partly because of this conflict. as the many western countries are already, the vaccines, they want to double vaccinate triple x in it, or do vaccines it 5 times or 10 times until there's been a holding of these vaccines by the not the global lot. diversity is packaging this as a kind of a existential threat to them. but the majority of the countries are

a basically looking at the impact of the energy prices, the food prices, inflation and you know, many of the issues, for instance, the, the middle east conflict, the city and conflict, the under development in africa, or in south america and asia interestingly, none of these are being raised in the past 6 months. yeah. so, so back to indicate that the whole narrative has been shifted to conflict in ukraine and so that is more of the global. so as we not hearing that, please listen to us. you know, we also exist, we have a lot of problems that need to be resort and especially and come to the end of me the vaccine. nobody is talking about this. so i think that he's a,

if you're asking for a majority of the countries concerned about daily bread and barcode related issues, rather than the yeah, the conflict as such. i said, we have to take a short break for the time being, but we will be back to this discussion in a few minutes station. ah or a a

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well come back to the point with straight come, come to poly, professor of china, cited at the job i hello mary university in your daily professor before the break we were talking about the impact of this conflict on many countries, but you specialize in chinese affairs and i want to ask you specifically about china and india because as much as the countries treat each other with suspicion, i think they react to this crisis in a, in a pretty similar way. both governments, as you said, what type type role, both governments benefited greatly from buying oil from russia at the discounted price. i think it benefited much more than china. i think your supplies of russian oil increase more than 8 times as since the beginning of,

of the year. how do you think this whole conundrum will influence the dynamic bit been to asian giant i you began with some of it to be sure from you talk to us to, to a show in the case of china and india. although the began almost at the same level, china in the growth rates as part of the organizations program in 1978 till recently they have been growing it 10 percent growth rate. now it just come down less than 3 percent, 4 percent, roughly. i want to call as medium high growth rates. in the case of in your we just began with the growth rate and we are expected to florida on 8 percent. and it is hard for a country like india to clock back much of growth rate. but we are doing the

new schemes that are being proposed by the government of the day. the current aspect is you mentioned china and india. there is a lot of conflict going on between the tool, especially july, june, 15th night, 2020. we had about 20 indian soldiers killed, an estimated on accounted for chinese water in this. the chinese government, after 8 months declared about 4 people in this conflict bart das newsagents, he mentioned 45 people in china. so maybe somewhere between $4.00 to $45.00 or even beyond what is important is that be signed a lot of agreements. asana, you mentioned about the russian agreements with the u. s. and the nato countries,

china and india have signed several agreements, 993, the sent congress 1996 for building measures in rehab for also the 2003. i'm not in the petrol agreement because bcm border defense ball person. i'm several of the protocols. me sign a bar to on june 15th to none of these matters really. and the killing clea rental on for a whole night that night. and we were actually because if they sign an agreement with china in future, a work would be the consequence of this. like water, it happened on june 15th, i'd like to try to charge a lot of, lot of law going on. but i think you would agree that the amount of blood is i'm

comparable to what we have now. it's in the russians and the ukranian, they extend of the cranium. conflict is far more terrifying. horrible. i mean, i say that as a russian with ukraine origins and i still have relatives in that country. it's a huge pain and i think we will bear the consequences of it both economic, social and human consequences, moral consequences of it for they gets to come. having said that, i think it's pretty clear that the americans are trying to utilize india in di, rivalry with china through or through some other measures to sort of bring a indian more forcefully into the western camp. having seen how the americans can keep their promises, be it in afghanistan or even in ukraine. do you think india can rely,

safely rely on the americans in maritime affairs and security issues, et cetera? well, in the card, the card meeting communist or more, the tor president biden. darn the ukraine and crisis is continental. and so it's not part of the quite agenda. so weren't he was trying to mention is by for both of these indian foreign policy, we have what we mention as strategic our tanami. as you know, we followed the non alignment moment before recently the exist on the independent foreign policy and strategic autonomy and, and so i don't think the u. s. in your relation should not be kind of exaggerated. like everybody is previously in russia. absolutely. even now,

china is heavily dependent on the american sci the stock exchanges. moment. the might be national corporations that have invested in these countries is following the same path as the russians did since 91 of the chinese. and since 1978, i am anywhere. well, at least in the, anywhere in a good place, at least in the case of russian increasingly in the case of china. so do you think it's really worthwhile for india to flow in these 2 countries? i know, basically i was trying to say that at any country which wants to modernize, especially in infrastructure, they need a lot of capital and i need a lot of technology and, and need a lot of, you know, the, the stock exchange. yes. the, you know,

symbolic gestures and these are necessary for any country which are modernizing and china exploited this substantially since 1978. and so i was just mentioning that any country which wants to have these mortem gadgets, et cetera, we have to open up as this a part of the globalization. the larger picture i was trying to suggest did is a conflict between china and india. and then the defense minister of india, and to moscow in september, 2018 of the c 2 or 3 wanted in order to conduct china, india already us. so what i was trying to see is that russia get relations, did a lot of dept previously and even now. and then that is a conflict with china. we know where to go for, for the sustenance,

military sustenance and so on. our time is running out. i want to try to squeeze in one more question about the tigers. i am, i want to close chairman now the founder of the people's republic of china, who said was that when someone is trying to wake a tiger a he or she needs to make sure that it has a long enough see now clearly the washington is now trying to contain what they call containing china. do you think they use the stick as a matter for, for the american strategy? the thing is 4 sided and i do think it's long enough. oh, trust. i don't think the americans are contained in china, both china and america hybrid g tool, as obama mentioned once in 2009. i think this is a misnomer that they are containing china, china contacting us. they have a $780000000000.00 trade in debt or shared trade is

a $2000000000.00. china us trade is $780000000000.00. and every day prior to the time to make 6000 people cross off from the u. s, which kind of, i said was so and so there is no containment. the soviet union was contained by the u. s. there, there was no trade, no investment, no market, no contract. that doesn't exist between us and china. i don't think there is any containment. the chinese keep flagging this just as a part of their defensive mechanism. bart, this is to put the americans in place by flagging containment pieces all the time. i don't think in fact, china usaa relations are more stable and more having more stir digit dept than us into relations all to us. and i showed earlier. so do that because i mean it's not just the chinese for using it. it's also,

it's in all american strategic documents that china is a, is a major rival for them that needs to be, that are also put in place. why do you think that americans continue with this pretty and friendly just for us? and it went on, not only under the trump administration is continuous under the biden administration in the recent times since leg trump, we have seen that kind of language. but even the chinese use the same language. chinese strategic experts use the same language as the u. s. dark doesn't really disturb their trade investment people to contact. so what i was trying to say this is not in between china and us that heavily dependent on each other. and they can say anything longer. telegram ought to be wide, call us national security starter. don't print or others. nevertheless,

work is important to have more depth in the us trade is $100000000000.00. china u. s. period of it just mentioned 708. and there is more chinese investment in the us. their total chinese investment in india is $8000000000.00 for a 16 trillion dollar economy just about a $1000000000.00. bar. chinese investment outside is $1.00 trillion dollars. majority of dark or a large part of it is in the us. i'm canada and europe. so what i was trying to say is forget about the, the statements given by the chinese minister digital exports of the day, the steady depth between them, china, your trade is over $600000000000.00 and china, the investment in c. c,

17 countries is quite huge. italy, spain, all of those big countries are to illegally breeza and spain. that rural investment in these already is now functioning in any of the countries with the infrastructure projects. and i just wondered that all is no much we have to see hard facts before we say that containment, perfect and up, all we have to, we were there was one last thing that i would add is that there was also a lot of interdependence in russia. western europe and, or says they did not because you know, these 2 powers from, you know, going into a direct conflict in your brain. so, but i quote that these experience will serve as a, as a warning to other international players. anyway, we have to leave it there. thank you very much for your insights today. thank you. and thank you for watching cold to syria. gann will depart. i'm

with me for ah, no one, no, no, no, no, no. what was the limitation of unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was

to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had ever known. real enough to build on it. suddenly looking to keep a moved to new mom thought this you know, the more no. no, got the muscle. i wish you know, i got julie who didn't know i had to put on the scarlet and weather and all buddy bill, you know, it's nice to do what the on this she might new on

it. i know i isn't more good, but you know, put them out to think your boss. on february the 24th 2022. russia launched a special military operation in ukraine. the campaigns 1st major battle was an operation to bring the city of murray. you pull back under the control of pro russian don bass with

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