on yes, a with the and i do so as you know that way, if you don't mind ah, a ton welcome to wells fargo. some 30 years ago. just as the soviet union was about to collapse, francis fukuyama pronounce the end of history, giving a science expression to pretty simple american craving for eternal dominance. this loss of this theory became apparent pretty quickly in part because what matters in

the final analysis is not only work history as but also where it begins in trying to understand the war in the ukraine and what it means for the rest of the world. how far down memory lane should we go? well, to just come to them now join, ply, we ask peo, researcher for the south african chapter of the southern and east african trade institute. this is a evans agreed to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for having me as we'll do just fine. yes, great pleasure. talking to you and i think from reading some of your recent articles, we share a similar space for neo con politics. you know, the intention of launching wars and the name of all the good against all the bad and sometimes, or most of the times living scorching land in the aftermath. but for some reason the scenario seems to be happening over and over again. i covered the wars

and libya or in syria just a couple of years ago. and nowadays everybody forgot about it. it seems that the only one that exists in the media space right now is the war in the ukraine. and why it's a pretty horrible outcome for russia 1st. i wonder why do you think this cycle, all, you know, each new wor, replacing the memory of the previous one. why do you think the cycle goes on? i think we have a global hagaman, which is the united states. and the united states has been taken over by a cabal of neoconservative thinkers and practitioners like victorian union and the k guns and so on. so go v dot, the famous writer called the united states the united states of amnesia. because you know, everything in the media is sound bites and is more psychology than fact. so we have the domination of the information space by the us with twitter,

putting people like scott ritter off and so on. so there is the traditional manufacturing of consent. and even more concerning is that there is an over simplification of very complex issues. one can, for instance, at a human level b of b against violence and against the invasion of ukraine by russia. but if you look at it at a geopolitical level, one can see that both russia and china being surrounded by american or nato military bases. and the assertion is that the nato is a defensive alliance. but i think the brown people like libyans or syrians or iraqis, we say that this is certainly not the case. and at least for the off on it. so, you know, the perspective from africa is that we want to be neutral, is a v, this war doesn't mean we don't have compassion with the ukrainians or the russians

. or, you know, both people are dying on both sides at the geopolitical level. one can see that the russians were backed into a corner and almost had no option. on the other hand, at the national level, one must respect the rights of ukrainians, like many african, so are struggling for self determination. you know, the colonization wasn't just the colonization or the process for self determination . so this struggle with the new collins is also at a civilizational level, you mentioned for piano, but you didn't mention samuel huntington in his clash of civilizations, you know, arguing that there is no prospect for you know, anything else but liberal internationalism. but in that entire book, he doesn't mention africa as if we don't exist. and this is a serious, serious problem because we are players in the world. we do contribute resources to the global economy and provide services and production to the international

division of labor that exists. so this is real challenge for africa to maintain your trying to g. you mentioned the ukrainians. try for self determination. i think it has to be respected. in fact, that russia made it flashed to respected by freeing itself from russian political influence does not have to me in prosecuting that land for the americans. i mean, one of the things that it is, i think a public records right now is the effort by the west to ask that it's militarization of ukrainian territory. i wonder why do you think, what was the motivation behind it? because it's hard to decide, again, after having all those wars and how much they caused the american taxpayers and how little they brought to the ordinary people in the united states and around the world. it's hard to understand why would be the so called neo kong cabal, even though it was many representatives of the democratic party,

why would it persist on doing the same thing over and over and over and over again? well, i think if you listen to people i john mearsheimer, they say that term america believes it's the shining city on the hill and have a responsibility to protect our populations as well as the responsibility to promote democracy. unfortunately, on the us of repeats this on this, this, i don't know, are processing country after country because these people are simply not reflective of counties down the left with their tails between their legs and libya is a complete message was the best african country. it's an incredible catastrophe, and it's the same that's happening in ukraine. now. these were preventable chrisy crises, in 2000. i mean, last year, i mean, had the nato and the others chatted to russia and come to sort or some sort of agreement so that the russians in easton,

ukraine could be protected. ukraine could have been as professor michael hudson, who appears on your show, said it could have been a bridge and a buffer. you see zalinski now talking about neutrality. and if that proposition had been put forward between 2014 and now a lot of the problems would have been solved. so when we come to why the neocons do things neocons do things because they feel they have an obligation to the world. but they also very, very bizarre re, like the iranian, say they just doing do so that it works for the interest or what their perceived interests are. but i mean, if one just simply looks at a map of bases and massage stations, i mean that it's, or it's more than coincidental that russia is actually being surrounded and being targeted as an enemy. i mean, the ridiculous notion that muscle systems in ruin out there to protect europe from iran. iranian massage strikes. i mean,

this is the level of deception that goes on. that said, is race is constitutive in south africa, you know, politics, you're not going to get around the domination, you know, by the soviets of warsaw back countries like ukraine, entities formative. but the, at the end of the day, we know this invasion or whatever you from as em, you want to use for it was for preventable. and this violence is only going to get worse. the position that puts africa in is that if this level of destabilization goes on africa is facing a crisis of enormous proportions there 300000000 people now at risk of hunger. i mean, this is incredible and we see the north of the u. s. talking and europe talking about concern for africa and they want to alleviate the food crisis. but you know, it's like the rank hypocrisy of this people just does not arise because at that

w t o ministerial conference in june in geneva recently and the u. s. and you were blocking poor countries from public stockpiling or food so that they can pay to for emergencies. and then when it comes into context of the ukrainian rule, they're all supportive of the african position. they block us from storing grain, you know, so that they can make profit from higher prices, yet they pretend to care for african countries. it's ridiculous. well, it's probably because they also want to keep it for themselves. there's green supplies, and i think this is one of the very unique features of the ukranian crisis. is that? absolutely well, he can not only came home to roost, but it came home pretty soon. and it's not only the poorest countries of the south that have to deal now when they arriving with fuel prices. but also the developing, the developed world has to deal with certain insecurity, shortages energy,

high political as it in the united states had of the i could only trim election i one day if you think that the west may have miscalculated what it was getting itself into when it got the side with russia, i think that this 5, this much of it also made the whole world suffer the consequences of his decision to penalize ration overall. i think, you know, are the african position on neutrality, south africa, which is pushing neutrality very strongly sir. i'm opposed, brick said the same thing. it is a speculation on both parties. part. i think there was an under estimation where the europe could actually get united against russia under the nato banner. and we see that happening now. and i think it's a serious miscalculation from the us side. but the u. s. can afford. busy the miscalculation simply because it is surrounded by 2 oceans and is relatively secure,

and also the proportion of expenditure by its people on food as a proportion of the income is much lower. it's 10 to 20 percent. whereas in africa, the proportion of people's average expenditure and food is about 40 to 50 percent. so, you know, the north and no europe in america can fool the people because they saying this is putin's inflation. but is it really because inflation was rising before the war? so even in very period 2020 to 2021. there was a 20 percent increase in the price of food and now it's 40 percent over the amount of money that will be you in the united states. trent, it's really clear that the inflation is driven by, you know, the printing machine that is turning out, turning out money like crazy with absolutely no consideration for what's going to

happen. well, the one thing is, one can look at quantitative easing, which was necessary at the time. the problem is the distribution of the quantitative easing, which was pushed towards asset prices and the rich wrong. most of the stock market and bonds. it wasn't distributed to the people, i think q e was absolutely necessary to forestall or global crisis. that was caused essentially by u. s. that of it, of products and practices. ah, but there is also significant market monopolization. and so you have a few u. s. and e, u companies dominating international trade in coffee and grains, you know, people like car deal and then you have others like monsanto and buy on fertilizers and so on. so they seemed rather the argument that we say it's money printing the scores, the inflation. no, it's also monopolization, as well as a ranch interests and people who are simply taking advantage of the crisis so that

they can raise prices. and this is very indicative of the problem of rising inequality. i mean, it shows that the economic system pushed forward by the e u and the u. s. which is basically neoconservatism plus neoliberalism. chose that they really don't care about their own people. actually, they could not care less about the impact on their people. and we wait for our activists and progressive friends in the north to actually start having discussions . you know, inequality is cold for class, but why can't we say that there's a class war going on here? well, well, we'll talk more about that after a short break, but the time b i, we have to take it. we will be back in just a few moments session. ah

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ah welcome back to well, the president react sale researcher for the south african chapter, hold the southern and east african trade institute, react before the break. we were discussing the implications of this conflict, the, as well as the globalized economic and political system for russia, for europe, for the united states. now let's turn our attention to africa and i recently came across a great quote from i q one does a playwright and boys and the different stuff, the heron recipient don't been nobel prize in literature. who said that a tiger does not shout it's hybrid ass. i wonder if part of the problem or part of the explanations with the math that the world is in the right now is

that for too long too many countries pretended to act rather than acted. and whether these crisis, as best as it is with force governments around the world to actually take their own decisions in the best interest of that old people, rather than referring or diverting judgment to the so called neo leap or new york on about that. you mentioned for, i think, for africans the situation is such that we're in a position of great dependency. and i think russia needs to appreciate what great dependency we are in. now. most of our countries on that to northern countries or western banks, private in the private sector on official loan. so the position of neutrality is very, very expensive for africa. and on a civilizational level, what we see is we see a doubling down or the u. s. and e, u, pushing your liberal policies, you know, saying if you bought it,

we will come and invest, you know, and none of that has, is really happening. capital flows are down. and even if we do get info so that we can benefit, you know, from trade links or finance and investment links. you know, it hardly ever happens because they monopolize the sector or them and monopolize the investment. so i don't see a major change coming through. and even with the exception of president putin, russia has followed a largely new liberal path, even though it has changed its position on a, you know, having a weaker currency. so it can encourage manufacturers. and we kind of forget that everyone literally copied the american system of manufacturer manufacturers by alexander hamilton, who was then followed by frederick list and then followed by the pre bolshevik on russia for through sara gave it. and for example, linen did the trans siberian hiring. know railway which was actually one of the

communication i infrastructures recommended by survey of it. and i think we need to, we will move to something like that where countries focus on the actual gains of trade instead of making a country sexy enough for america to invest in. well, 1st of all, i appreciate your that, you know, which of the russian history of it. i also add from my side that i think russia and some african countries, especially in resource rich countries, share certain similarities because russia to was being used by the west. a certain point by allowing it to extract our natural resources in exchange for a developmental advise that seemed to be benefactors more than the business assurance. yet the decision point decision was made to cut down on external death and russia after the cough. and so we had enormous that it managed to pay it all. it also made certain moves in favor of sell proficiency. so locating crucial

industries within the country for the rainy, the rich, everything now has come. don't you think that that's all for some, you know, things to at least ponder about for some of the african countries at least as far as sell position is concerned, because i know that many of the african countries economically are very specialized soon. the global agenda, but that leaves them out in the old one that can damage or a major other disruption and supplies strikes. russia has done remarkably well after the mignon ski act and the sanctions that were imposed you know, after that as well. russia has certainly taken steps to improve its resilience and its productive capacity. but what we have not seen is russia sterilizing. the inflows of rovers or you know, foreign exchange coming in those that are allowed like the norwegian sovereign wealth fund does. because if you have too much appreciation of your currency,

it's going to knock your productive capacity simply because you're exports are going to become too expensive. and we haven't seen moves on that on russia proposal to the brakes and sharing of information like the need for tentative credit ratings agencies or the need for an alternative payment system. i think here african countries to learn enormous almost amount from russia, particularly on credit ratings. agencies, and as well, i think russia to step up, it's support to african countries, particularly on the payment system. because this is where african countries are most vulnerable. you will see african countries changing tech, not because, you know, the soviet union didn't support african countries, you know, in the colonial straw, enter colonial struggles and all that. but because african countries are very dependent, a key thing here was the control, the u. s. and e, you have over the w h o, the russians put, nick vaccine was not approved. so it undermined africans ability to get the

technology transfer that russia offered so freely. and practically anyone who said that they dealt with the russians on this was that they were off fingering real hands on capacity building. and it was bo gates who stood up and said, no, we won't need to have this controlled. no, we're not gonna approve it at w h o re not going to get funds for this kind of medicine. and this was a shortage. and they left the africans with 17 percent ver, vaccine coverage. and then they go to the w 2. and so we're concerned about you and they block no steps that we can take to be self reliant in vaccines. the situation is really, really incredulous. i mean, they left us hanging and the russians were there, but we were constrained. you seem to be using a lot of passive, a language here. they left us hanging. we weren't able to act. but i like to call this statement from one of the indian national movement

that freedom is not given take. and don't you think that the have the time has come, and it's a time of a time when many governments are working very tight roads. but when they have to make decisions for that population, you perhaps disobey some of the global wisdom delivering. it's also and, you know, make decisions that see that people that, yes, that is true. but you know, like the people say, we talk about ukrainian sovereignty and it's, you know, nato's open door is sovereign for ukraine to enter. you know, it's a complete life. you can say about that because they undermine african and other people. serenity all the time. the reaction of the u. s. 2 african neutrality on the un security council decisions and in the general assembly has been to pass and act that will monitor russian activities in africa as if they are a school teacher who can walk around with a cane,

heating african countries. so the scope for action for african countries is very limited. african countries need to take a position that more cunning and focusing on the interest, but they need to be coming to do that because they will be put under. i'm asked you to liege or not have access to medicines or have the funding for a lot of things. so that's are saying that russia needs to understand the very precarious nature of african african countries. and i think that if russia and china can offer meaningful alternatives to african countries, we will be able to step out of the dependency. but without the, the u. s. a. but with the u. s. pushing very strongly against africans. now it's going to get harder and harder and you will see some defections. for example, kenya is talking a strong game against russia when it's dependent on belarus and russia for so much

of its fertilizer. it's going to face fertilizer crisis because it simply won't be able to get them on the market. europe is going to take a 1st preference and kenya is going to be left behind. so you see this happening already, but yes, we do hope our countries will focus on national interest. i mean, put in stepped up and replaced shock therapy with nationalist interests. sometimes we get worried about alexandra jogan and those kind of folks that are referred to. but we have not had our nationalist moment or put in moment way after liberation of freedom from colonial domination where we could act in the interest of all people. while the picture you're reading is really in depressive, perhaps let me ask you 1. 1 more question that is quite concerning, but maybe it has some hope in it as well. many economists are warning about famine in northern and central africa because of the

a rising fuel and grain prices. and i know that russia, for example, takes it seriously. they had the african union visited this country just a few weeks ago, and he got the reassurances from the kremlin that russia would do everything possible not to subject those countries to the negative implications of the ukrainian conflict. but there are real concerns here that the west may intervene or interfere with the logistics for the sake of presenting, rushing and negative life. and i want, i want to ask you about that specifically, do you think there's anything that the african countries can do to make sure that these 2 opposing camps rush on one side and the west of the other side could be brought to that humanity in delivering something as basic and something as necessary as grange to africa. do you think there is any hope of finding a compromise? they are not in the ukraine because it's too hard,

but at least far away in africa? well, i like i said, the hip f christy of the north knows no bounds. they are shameless. come on, we are, we are the largest country up in the world and we, we care about humanity not only our managed but everybody else is to am entered in the dialectic of north and south, no geographic. but okay, i'll say the west because because of the silent century, russia's position in the west is questionable as the europeans like to keep reminding us. no, i think there's a lot of hope because i'm lucky. so from senegal is meeting with president putin, i think right now, and you know, when you speak to diplomats coming out of meetings with the russians over the kremlin, you know, they say they treated us with respect. they listened attentively. they asked pertinent questions and they provided solutions and told us where the difficulties are. the primary cause of the of the shortages is basically the shipping route and

the, you know, the insurance and i'm not sure the u. s. or the e u is going to, is going to move on this. so this crisis is going to continue. but what i think the africans do appreciate is the very attentive nature and the concern outlook that the kremlin is giving. and you know, it's so simple. you know, the africans are saying, you know, the russians treated as decently and with respect. i mean, you know, if you go to the w t o, africans try and get some correction on the destructive subsidies, the subsidies that the u and the u. s. gave it's about $631000000.00 a year that basically allows european pharmacy to sell a product at the, at a price that is lower than what africans can produce. so i think on the food level and on the health level, the relations between africa and russia can be improved. but i'm worried about the

african countries bending to the u. s. u. s. because of the pressure of hunger and it's going to be devastating for people. but i think what's coming out of the kremlin in cooperation with the african union is a remarkable we just need the you and the u. s. to stop there. nonsense on sanctions and allowing shipping and insurance so that people don't die area on the serious, over and over. you have to be there. thank you very much for your thoughts today. much obliged. thank you for watching a call this year and get all the parts ah with mm

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the 2nd world war i think 2 millions of people during the conflict, the balance of power was held by the leaders of 3 nations the united kingdom, the united states, and the u. s. s. on march the 31st 1945, a british royal air force plane lands in crimea with a very important passenger, the british prime minister's wife, clementine churchill.