in europe, middle east and asia, and the biggest loser is the west. ah . to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest, glenn, these in oslo. he's a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the book, phobia propaganda in international politics. and in america we crossed martin j. he's an award winning journalist and commentator, or a gentleman crossed out on the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it. and i was going in our slow for you and i were in contract before we started this recording and you decide on the topic on the unipolar moment. well, how much to my surprise? well, tony blair, the former british prime minister, gave a big speech about dominance. of the west is coming to an end. so what a interesting collision of perfect storms here for. so for our audience, what he,

what is meant by the unit polar moment, unilateral? what does that mean? well again this i think was major story of our time because when the soviet union collapsed, the world became unipolar. this means that there was only one central power in the world because during the cold war you heard it was bipolar 2 centers. now under the uniform order, you only have one center which is united states. it was organized as the west as a collective hedge money. so and so this really immersed in 30 years ago as the soviet union collapsed and megan, preserving the unit polar distribution of power, became the foundation for your security strategy. for i, there was that as long as the u. s. maintained its global hedge money, then there would be no rivalries between the great powers. and this was therefore refer dresser unit polar piece or a hedge, a monic piece if you will. so the problem was, what many academics point out which was the unit for a moment, would unavoidably be temporary because 1st of all, it would exhaust use resources to dominate the world. but 2nd of all,

because maintaining youth dominance would depend on preventing the rights of other center. so our one would expect the country says different, thus russia, china, india, brazil, and others with increasingly corporate, with each other to bows off united states because they said, you notice this trying to keep them down. well, as we see now, 30 years later, these predictions her coming to fruition that is the use of exhausting many of its resources under major power center reading to create alternative security and economic infrastructure which is independent of the united states. and the question has always been, how would the us respond? even brzezinski, remember who was, could not be more as a phobic, yet he also recognized there was a dilemma. you can either facilitate or support a transition to multiple or order when the youth has a privileged position, or alternatively, you can fight all his rivals in a grand stand off to regain his former dominant position. now i think that because

the west has linked the survival of liberalism and our values to hedge money, no negotiation. so what we now see is that your assistant resume confrontation with many, emily russia in europe, china in asia, and iran in the middle is a business perspective are seeing that it's use will fight to restore is global hedge money. even though this does not seem very likely at all, oh, you bring up a really good point learn. i mean, one of the things that you know, in glenn gives a perfect explanation there. but is this an ideological thing? is it based on security? is it based on g o politics? because if it's ideological, then the west cannot lose, will that is, everything goes against everything in history. empires rise and fall centers of power move around. i mean, that is the nature of geo politics to all of time. and so the where seems because of its ideology, the it is the end of history is fukuyama said go ahead mar. yeah,

i think come tony blair, having a wine about some western power away from scratch on is it must be done over $2000000.00. and co go, oh because you question about ideology. i don't know that's the right word or is it an ideology? is it philosophy? it's the only model that the west hat so long was that the huge her powers of a leach, which controlled our politicians, you know, had a very singular view of the road which the politicians followed. you know, they look to poor countries and they said, are you pull him backward? i do have a huge democratic deficits. you know, are you in debt? and do you need american aid and will you fall on the ground boots, uncle sam? and if countries around the world said yes to those 5 than they were welcome and there was a huge body slam, you know, your, our kind of guy are kind of dictator or kind of leader. this is how americans thought in the west followed with this doctrine. but i think a lot of it was about,

you know, what we got now is we saw loses. this is the problem. we're losing our power and we don't really know how to deal with it. just just as a british empire imploded, the end of the 2nd more will give the americans to really know how to deal with this new scenario that china, iran, russia, india, these companies already forming, they're really getting their act together and creating a real opposition to america. so you know, how do we cope with that in the longer term is going to be casualties. can be low chest, something winding. but some, i don't think most of it is genuine. i think a little bit is just just the west. don't really coping. ready well, with this new world order, it's interesting that what martin just said there and glen, because if we frame it in ideological terms, well, a lot of what the western liberalism and that's going to spread means today. well, 1st of all, very daily into most of the world this woke isn't stuff and all of that make most

of the world scott sat is being just ridiculous. i mean, are you build a coherent, prosperous society based on these ideas that the west is very forcefully exports right now. and i guess a result of what we've seen the global south, not condemning russia or it's military operation. ukraine. i think you can draw 2 conclusions. one, they don't take the west very seriously anymore. and number 2 and very importantly, they're not a rated bit anymore thoughts. no, i agree, no other way. and another thing i think when the rest keeps talking about, this is an attack on the rules based quarter. this becomes a role. this becomes a way of expressing, again, ideology as power. so they're saying, you know, we without western hedge money, you can't have the survival of example, liberalism. but i think it the rest of the world in their bit critical because they see this is mainly as the power line behind. because when the west,

after collapses soviet union, they began to pursue this hedge, a monic liberal order. what it was to find us was giving essentially the rest is going to give itself an exemption from international law. so keep in mind when it, when the rest brings up this principles of great principles, democracy, human rights is not used to limit the they're the power of the state, rather, it enables it. so for example, if almost this concert goes sovereign in a court in which it was referred to democracy, human rights, the rest can interfere in domestic affairs. we can po governments by calling them credit pollution. they for calling a human a terry interventions, even severing territories of other countries. so that there is this sense that liberalism has been so intertwined with their hedge among the concept that again, when we do speak about the west leadership, we see it as the guarantee for liberal values of the rest of the world.

increasingly see liberalism as simply being a logical, talking point to justify money. so again, when can take both sides of the argument. but it is quite interesting that these discussions aren't really being held in the west at the moment where the power of the west months disappearing. thus at the same time, the world is increasingly rejecting this liberal ideology which will justify the badge money. what me martin, or will under the current administration to bite ministrations about democracy versus a ta chrissy or a real throw bag to the bass demising. it wouldn't really know um, no perspective on the realities on the ground around the world. but then you know, joe biden, he, if we, if he takes on board is democracy versus the tar chrissy. he vis, bump the are the crown prince of suffolk rafia. i mean, what is there were other make of this year? i mean, you were, where's the human rights? where is the democracy?

where is the rules based order? i mean, it just, it is absurd in the whole world. sees this, okay. as a glen glen touch on the point you said that these, these, these incredibly seismic issues, these qualities that we cling on to have done since the 1st part of the last 7 years are really just talking points as absolutely correct. use that phrase there. and the whole world is realized just now, before, perhaps if you go back and say only 15 or 20 years, you know, when the west meant huge decisions. it could, it could bank on a fair amount of his ex colonies in the global south, and to support un, to support his on those days gone. you know, now the west, the so called worse. what is the west west is the you 2726 countries, and america, and canada and what, what is the west? what can it do now in with his huge subject, it's very much on his own. and it has to keep on banging the strum and going on about the liberal values. but the truth is,

we don't even believe in the liberal values ourselves anymore. you know, democracy, free speech, human rights, just look at what we're doing to people look at the junior sand case. you know, look at the number of journalists are being arrested in europe for reporting on the war and ukraine. but role to that, the january 6 rioters. yeah. yeah. so you know that this, this edge that we had is gone. you know, we're looking at a new recent new world order and china and russia are actually beginning to make it very, to the whole world. there is an alternative out, you know, and i think the longer we go on though with these ideas, the more that the worse is exposed to being more corrupt than it ever was in a corruption is now really a huge factor. now when we look at ukraine, when we look at china, i mean, how can you mentioned china without bite and family relations with deals are going on there? how can you talk about ukraine without looking at what biden's family doing in the ukrainian is disgusting? and the only way that we read about these articles read about this graph is from

foreign journalists from the other side of this new world order from the china, from russia, from turkey, from wherever, you know, we don't, our journalist have just forgotten how to do their job and it's so we are shipping up to something completely new. we don't really know what it's going to look like. but we are living a new reality that america and its allies in europe are no longer a dominant force anymore. they're gonna have to take a back seat to a new economy, a new sort of rules, and we're not behaving really very well about it with our attitude towards china, which shocks me actually that the so much religion see the so much. hm. just meeting and talk is a war and you go to war with it, with one of your greatest training. honest. it doesn't make any sense to me. glen martin with great pointer and it goes back to my original question here, is that this is just ideologically driven, it's. it's not rationally, but it's not, it's not ok. this is not assessing your assets and your strength in your ability to get what you want to me. and then these rose tinted glasses is itself limiting and

it's actually so humiliating. go ahead like 30 seconds. are we going to break? i am good example of this is exactly the chinese because our hours with china could easily be resolved on this course. back to the one china policy like china has been very open if you will not intervene unless you have steps over the line to recognize independence or want us to use been good. gradually abandoning the one china policy, which sparks tiny since wrenching and based on this, we're now making china enemy, because it is predictably responding to a publication as we had already expected. so it is no different than nato expansion propagation. and then you can reaction, gentlemen, we're going to go to what your break and after that break we'll continue, our discussion will stay ah, ah,

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ah, welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm futile. well, this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah let's go back to learning in america. one of the interesting things about this unit polar moment coming to an end, it has come to an end. and, well, one of the big differences in looking at european politics in the crisis in ukraine is that it seems to me that germany has finally completely abandon us politics of billy brown's mom or the current government in germany no longer. i think that was

a really broad, talked about 2 different legs. one be able to stand on one, stay in the west, but be able at the same time to reach out to the east. it seems like those days are over, and that is one of the accomplishments of washington in london. i mean, to finally break the relationship putin wanted, since he came to power of having a good, vibrant relationship with germany. that seems to have come to an end, and i would say as a result, it is isolated europe because there's not a major power in europe now that wants to reach out and out, some kind of detente. we haven't used that word in a long time with russia. go ahead, mark. no, i think we're a long way from it. it's not unfortunately, because when you get into the heads of some of these western elise, you still believe they can play the war of attrition. with russia, you see what they're not, they're not interested in any long term friendship or deal with russia. you know, we liked russia during gelson's period because he was poor backwards and nothing seemed to work. and they needed the help of america a certain point. it was

a little tiny window where yeltsin seemed to be our guy, you know, soon student came in. so the build the economy, something going on like russia, russia problem versus threat rushes, creating these problems for us. you know, and what comes from that, what i noticed as a journalist is this package fear mongering, which is delivered through the media. you know, we go this fear mongering go no longer is nothing new in the west. we've been doing it. you know, you can go back to the days when russell was young. man and nixon went to russia. the soviet union. nothing 62 and came back with a circle deal room sold. and cheney, we're looking at him to say no, because he's new russia submarines which are not caustic, that hundreds of them just popped off the coast of america. and we couldn't, they couldn't get into their heads the, because we couldn't detect the russell russian submarine newsome range. that doesn't mean that they're not in reality, they didn't exist. they want, but it's always pressed inflation. the clean power might miss our film on grants.

huge. it didn't stop the next administration for the ministration. someone correct me if i'm wrong investing in today some billions of dollars in more minutes, industrial compet kit to try to check the so called non acoustic russian submarines which didn't exist the same things going on today. we've got more fear mongering over china. i know where it's heading. it's heading towards more military spending . that's the number one thing and it's, we've seen it in ukraine, and i'm beginning to wonder, you know, as a skeptical jonas, that's kind of a graph for the best for river city is. i'm beginning to wonder whether big international matthew corruption is taking over here. all of these a lead, so we elected as so called democratic leaders of our values of beliefs in these, in this near liberalism, they actually pocketing huge amounts of money from these obstacles. we don't know where these arms go. we don't know, even we don't even see the receipts from lockheed martin and raise him, you know,

we don't even know they get delivered if you're is old. i am, you can probably remember reagan coming into the scandal with the conscience. you know, reagan use the folk of war to cover up all this secrecy to create secret over basically selling arms to the iranians, which is illegal. taking $30000000.00 off iran and taking $18000000.00 of that and giving it to the contras to fight to send an interest in the graduate. all course from the illegal. he got off the who he was never known for that because he used a fog of war to actually move dirty money around, you know, people in the west, a very, very naive. they don't understand it. and he did money. the people that did take the hall for it were pardoned. oh yes, i am the president of the n r a. and so we go to quite good job also. i mean, we, i hate working tony blair's name again, sorry, but i mean, that's about the, you know, the, the, the dominance of the west coming to an end. i mean, he was part of the,

the tipping point. he was very much with the agreeing to the illegal war in iraq to the point is laser. one thing going is that the point about ukraine and the point about iraq and point about afghanistan is dirty money. you don't need money is all about these games. how do you move money around? how do you store dirty money? how do you save dirty money? how do you cream dirty my of huge arms contracts. a son said pretty much the same thing about afghanistan. he said, the point of us got against him was not to finish a war winner war it was create a sort of black zone where you could keep a lot of dirty money and keep everybody in check. you know, i was half finished on 2000 something ohio, a british soldiers. and one of the biggest frustrations they had was there was show me the head come video of while they were fighting taliban and one southern field, other people were collecting, a heroine, morphine on the other side and packing it away in it. and you know, so there was a little corruption there and i think all i see in ukraine there is 30 money. i see

dirty money in china now, who's getting this money? who's actually profiteering? go back to room. nobody wrong iran, contra fist. we still don't know today how those american arms companies got paid the $30000000.00. how they get paid. well, i think they will. and of calling it the hunter bite model. okay. glen, you're going back to the big picture of the end of the unified moment. i mean, are we in a facilities trap right now? i mean, because, because i think we're all in agreement yet. um, it's a, it's a combination of ideological possession and greed. okay. i mean, i guess there was a rift. i mean, it wasn't when it was the keep it going though it's the whole thing. this is the keep it going. it looks like that's something they may try in ukraine. i don't think they're going to be nearly as successful. that's why i think the pumping so much money in their big hub. it now i'll you care. okay. and they'll be no accounting for it later. just like in afghanistan. so. so glen, i mean, are we in

a trap right now with the westbound enough to, to maintain its ideological predominance because it's messianic b or turn to force because it's, everything's well loss of base. they've created a situation where either you win completely or you lose completely, but world history is everything's in the middle. it doesn't usually get the extremes. go ahead one. no, i agree, but it also depends how one would define the objectives. i mean, if you look at ukraine and russia, they were actually moving towards a little diplomacy. we're moving forward towards disagreements as we know in march . and again, what's not the student is that the ukrainians walked away from it because the united states and the person to do so, arguing that, you know, you can, we will give you all the work. and of course, there's no, no one of the things today that you came across about. still, the strategy is give you credit weapons,

but what their weapons need for what the process, it's going to continue this going and i get it from the u. s. congress. now and the media, you comparing this idea over and over again. you know, this is an opportunity as well to bleed ross and dr. a 2nd nomic military power. so i think this idea of dragging out to the war is, is part of the part of the goal. and it's also good for mine's building because what the united states, as a key military power is a lot of influence comes from having this enduring complex. i mean, and united states been trying to get the economic and political it was over the years for years. only now with this war i'm going is our dear p and bending over and doing what the americans want to do. and i think you can also see the same possibly in asia,

military conflict begins to intensify or escalate some pressure rooms with china. maybe it can mobilize some of the neighbors of china with united states. and obviously, the reason i'm saying it's because you're seeing the song as well. there's agreement now, which made in israel and then going to saudi arabia. this is to build up the rhetoric against iran. now, why would united states do this? well, obviously this can open up for this earlier type on your over. it would also be simply the short use leadership influence and the release for having this conflict there. the have to look towards students for leadership. that's the source of influence in the region. so again, i am not sure what else to explanation for because pursuing a conflict with us, russia in europe and asia, and iran now in the middle, is a major war there. if you can't possibly fight on 3 front. so i think this, having this slow burning conflict is minimum, might be

a strategic objective. yeah, well it was a martin, it exactly in the, the 3 regions. and i mentioned in my, my introduction. i mean if you have come that you have risks. busy inflation or crisis inflation is itself the justification to do to be involved in, in these, in these areas here. because i have always said like in the middle east, b, u. s. in the west got out of the middle east, they would make their peace. it might be very turbulent and might be very violent, but they would come to terms ok, the same thing in asia. but when you have the western powers, primarily the united states, that is it, it creates a, a slippery slope not to make hard decisions. okay. and on top of it, i mean, you know, we glenn was saying here, i mean, the european, the west has dominance in europe, but it's a pretty hollow prize, isn't it? i mean, it, germans are not going to be freezing in the winter. what kind of price is that?

i will say that we need a marshall plan, the americans to fly in d, c, threes, and drop food over a citizen, europe. you know, that's where we're heading. i mean, the germans now have to russian the hot water that they cannot, you have to boss week or something, one of the richest countries in the world. for the 1st time. it is true trying to say, you know, so this is worrying and when you can see the german news, the european union as well, the power is, you know, i think when we look at the west in general, and we talk about middle eastern biden in saudi arabia the last couple of days and the 1st punch is punch, whatever you call it a, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors. the love be yourself that frankly. and this idea that america is going to stand by israel and we're going to defeat iran. i mean, for god's sake, what planet are you on, man, who is going to take on iran in their right mind? and when it is really, germans push spider, each is shrunken seat and he just kept saying, well, you know, as

a loft or maybe would probably work, you know, nonsense, absolute nonsense. and the interesting thing is, is that we in the west of this, this, this, this, this, this fear mongering going in the middle east for a long time now because his great business for us is great business for arms countries. um, companies, you know, and, and, but the, it's fake, it's completely fake and you only have to look very closely at the relationship between saudi arabian around how it's becoming slightly cooler. and, you know, these 2 neighbors are actually starting to open up by chance towards each other. you know, they're both lining up to join bricks. how can they be enemies? they're both going to be in a new train, or i'm saying here, it's one big rift here. ok, all right, german run out and i think my guess and i'll slow and america. and when i think our viewers are watching us here are the see you next time remember? ah

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a minute, with the line, with reports of incoming artillery fire in russia's 1st region near the ukrainian border as russian lead forces make further. frontline advances are corresponding follows the troop movements. the allied forces managed to break the defensive lines of the nationalist battalions and foreign mercenaries. they will be able to move deep into ukrainian health territory and continue the military opperation to protect don bass . it fail to policy of trap, you run a phobia that's the message from it's a rod, as it accuses the us of inflaming tension in the middle east. as joe biden wraps up his 1st presidential visit to the region, entry loc. as government limits petrol.