oh, what the status of a wow she my and new other oh, site gets and more and more segment. good. so you don't the you you love and put them out there to keep us together. ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross top. were all things are considered on people about washington's unipolar moment, ended years ago, unfortunately, and dangerously. the foreign policy blob has refused to come to grips with this new reality. this explains the increase tensions in europe, middle east, and asia. and the biggest loser is the west. ah.

to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest, glenn, these in oslo. he's a professor at the university of south easter norway as well as author of the book was a phobia propaganda in international politics. and in america we crossed to martin j. he's an award winning journalist and commentator, or a gentleman crossed out rules and effects. that means you can jump any time you want. and i was appreciated. so i was going in oslo. um, you and i were in contact before we started this recording and you decide on the topic on the uniform moment. well, i'm much to my surprise a tony blair, the former british prime minister, gave a big speech about dominance of the west is coming to an end. so what a interesting, a collision of perfect storms here for. so for our, for our audience, what he, what is meant by the unit polar moment uniformity, what does that mean? well, again,

this i think is major story of our time. because when the soviet union collapsed, the world became unit polar. this means that there was only one central power in the world because during the cold war you heard it was bipolar 2 centers. now under the uniform order, you only have one center which is united states which organizes the west, the collective hedge money. so and so this really immersed in 30 years ago, as the soviet union collapsed and preserving the unit polar distribution of power, became the foundation for us security strategy for i, there was that as long as the u. s. maintained its global hedge money, then there would be no rivalries between the great powers. and this was ever refer, dresser, unit polar peace or hedge money. so the problem was, what many academics point out which was the unit for a moment, would unavoidably be temporary because 1st of all, it would exhaust use resources to dominate the world. but 2nd of all, because maintaining use dominance would depend on preventing the rights of other

center. so our one would expect, the country says different thus russia, china, india, brazil, and others with increasingly corporate, with each other to balance off to united states. because this, if you notice this trying to keep him down. well, as we see now, 30 years later, this predictions her coming to fruition that is the use of exhausting many of its resources under major powers are ready to create alternative security and economic infrastructure which is independent of the united states. and the question has always been, how would the us respond? even brzezinski, remember, who could not be more as a phobic, yet he also recognized there was a dilemma. you can either facilitate or support a transition to multiple or order when the youth has a privileged position, or alternatively, you can fight all his rivals in a ground stand off to regain his former dominant position. i think that because the west has linked the survival of liberalism and our values to hedge money,

no negotiation. so what we now see is that the u. s. is in pursuing a confrontation with many, emily, russia in europe, china in asia, and iran in the middle is a business effectively we're seeing that it's use will fight to restore is global hedge money. even though this does not seem very likely at all. well, you bring up a really good point learn. i mean, one of the things that you know, in glenn gives a perfect explanation there. but is this an ideological thing? is it based on security? is it based on g o politics? because if it's ideological, then the west cannot lose will that is, everything goes against everything in history. empires rise and fall centers of power move around. i mean, that is the nature of geo politics to all of time. and so the where seems because of its ideology, the it is the end of history is fukuyama said go ahead mar. yeah, i think come tony blair, having a wine about some western power when ms. collection isn't it must be done over

$2000000.00. cor, go, because you question about ideology. i don't know that's the right word or is it an ideology? is it philosophy? it's the only model that the west hat so long was that the huge powers of a leech which controlled our politicians, you know, had a very singular view of the road which the politicians followed. you know, and they look to poor countries. and they said, are you pull him backward? i do have a huge democratic deficit. you know, are you in debt? and do you need american aid and will you fall on the ground boots, uncle sam? and if countries around the world said yes to those 5 than they were welcomed and there was a huge body slam, you know, your, our kind of guy are kind of dictator or kind of leader. this is how americans thought in the west followed with this doctrine. but i think a lot of it was about, you know, what we got now is we saw loses. this is the problem. we're losing our power and we

don't really know how to deal with it. just as just as the british empire imploded, the end of the 2nd will give the americans to really know how to deal with this new scenario that china, iran, russia, india, these companies already forming, they're really getting their act together and creating a real opposition to america. so you know, how do we cope with that in the longer term is going to be casualties. can be low chest, something winding. but some, i don't think most of it is genuine. i think a little bit is just just the west. don't really coping. ready well, with this new world order, it's interesting that what martin just said there, glenn, because if we frame an ideological terms, well, a lot of what the western liberalism and that's going to spread means today. well, 1st of all, very daily into most of the world. this woke isn't stuff and all of that. most of the world scott saturdays being just ridiculous. i mean, are you build a coherent,

prosperous society based on these ideas that the west is very forcefully exports right now. and i as a result of what we've seen the global south, not condemning russia for its military operation. ukraine, i think you can draw 2 conclusions. one, they don't take the west very seriously. any more. and number 2 and very importantly, they're not a great a bit anymore. thoughts? no, i agree, no other way. and another thing i think when the rest keeps talking about, this is an attack on the rules based quarter. this becomes a role. this becomes a way of expressing, again, ideology as power. so they're saying, you know, we without western hedge money. you can't have the survival of example, liberalism. but i think it the rest of the world in their bit critical because they see this is mainly as the power line behind. because when the, with the soviet union, they began to pursue this hedge, a monic liberal order. what it was to find us was giving essentially the rest is

going to give itself an extension from international law. so keep in mind when it, when the rest brings up this principles of great principles, democracy, human rights is not used to limit the they're the power of the state, rather, it enables it. so for example, it promotes this concept of sovereign inequality in which it was referred to democracy. numerous the rest can interfere in domestic affairs. you can po documents by calling them credit pollutions they for calling a 2 minute terry interventions, even severing territories of other countries. so there is this sense that liberalism has been so intertwined with their hedge among the concept that again when, when, when we're speak about the west leadership, we see it as the guarantee for liberal values of the rest of the world. increasingly see liberalism as simply being a logical, talking point to justify money. so again,

when can take both sides of his argument. but it is quite interesting that these discussions aren't really being held in the west at the moment where the power of the west months disappearing. thus at the same time, the world is increasingly rejecting this liberal ideology which will justify the badge money. what me martin, or will under the current administration, the bite ministrations about democracy versus a ta chrissy or a real throw bag to the bass demising. it wouldn't really know um, no perspective on the realities on the ground around the world. but then you know, joe biden, he, if we, if he takes on board is democracy versus the tar chrissy. he vis, bump the are the crown prince of suffolk rafia. i mean, what is there were other make of this year? i mean, you were, where's the human rights? where is the democracy? where is the rules based order? i mean, it just, it is absurd in the whole world. sees this. ok, a glen, glen,

touch from the point we said that these, these, these incredibly seismic issues, these qualities that we cling on to have done since the 1st part of the last 7 years are really just talking points as absolutely correct. use that phrase there. and the whole world is realized, it's, you know, before, perhaps if you go back and say only 15 or 20 years, you know, when the west meant huge decisions. it could, it could bank on a fair amount of his ex colonies in the global south. and to support of un to support his on those days gone. you know now the west, the so called worse. what is the west west is the you 2726 countries. and america and canada. and what is the west? what can it do now in with his huge subject, it's very much on his own. and it has to keep on banging his drum and going on about the liberal values. but the truth is, we don't even believe in the liberal values ourselves anymore. you know, democracy, free speech, human rights, just look at what we do inter and people look at the junior santa case. you know,

look at the number of journalists are being arrested in europe for reporting on the war and ukraine. but role to that, the january 6 rioters. yeah. yeah. so you know that this, this edge that we had is gone. you know, we're looking at a new recent new world order. and china and russia are actually beginning to make it very, to the whole. well, do that is an alternative out, you know, i think it was the longer we go wrong though with these ideas, the law that the west is exposed to being more corrupt than ever was corruptions. now, really a huge factor. now when we look at ukraine, when we look at china, i mean, how can you mentioned china without boyd and family relations for deals going on there? how can you talk about ukraine without looking at what family are doing in the ukraine? it's disgusting, and the only way that we read about these articles you read about this graphs is from foreign journalists from the other side of this new world order from china,

from russia, from turkey, from wherever, you know, we don't, journalists have just forgotten how to do the job and so we all shipping up to something completely new. we don't really know what it's going to look like. but we are living in a new reality in america and its allies in europe. i'm no longer a dominant force anymore. they're going to have to take a backseat to a new economy, a new set of rules, and we're not behaving really very well about it with a rush to to china. which shocks me actually so much religion see the so much chest beats in talk is a war. how do you go to war with one of your greatest trading? thomas? it doesn't make any sense. the glen mark of a great pointer and it goes back to my original question. here is it? this is just ideologically driven. it's not rationally. it's not. this is not assessing your assets and your strength and your ability to get what you want to mean is there these rows? glasses is itself limiting? it's well actually, so humiliated. go ahead. good. 30 seconds. are we going to break?

i think good example of this is exactly the chinese costs are the china could easily be a result of this cars pack to this one. china policy like china, been very open. it will not intervene in taiwan unless the us that's over their mind. the recognize this independence a want to see you can do it gradually abandoning that one china policy, which on this intervention. and based on this, we're now making china and to me because is particularly responding to a publication as we have already expected. so it is no different than nato expansion propagation. and then you can reaction that we're going to get to what you're breaking up for that short break. we'll continue, our discussion will stay ah, ah

ah. and the new choice when medical mumbo blog post. how that's mature, which ones that can jump to both, and then eventually when you want to push them, what they'll do is you get a transcript that edition radius love. which no matter what the different benefits you want to push. now that's what i mean that i

can walk with a bunch of them. are you for your for holding the picture? where do we still hold? you go to the broker insurance card group company or what it covers it. i've got the new book with more do this can, but if they put us go, so this is latoya e. yeah, beautiful. microscopic i thought if for the last no, with a with really good for me. they all clue what because i get local. so to most of the stuff i've had a late wouldn't hurt to let the estimate the moment when you ask them when you finish july, the next to the line with

welcome back. across stock were all things are considered. i'm futile. well, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, let's go back to martin america's one of the interesting things about this unipolar moment, coming to an end, it has come to an end. and well, one of the big differences in looking at european politics and the crisis in ukraine is that it seems to me that that germany has finally completely abandon us politic um billy brant, mama, the current government in germany no longer. i think it was a really broad talk about 2 different legs. one be able to stand on or stay in the west for be able at the same time to reach out to the east. it seems like those

days are over, and that is one of the accomplishments of washington in london. i mean, to finally break the relationship a potent wanted since he came to power of having a good, vibrant relationship with germany. that seems to have come to an end, and i would say as a result, it is isolated europe because there's not a major power in europe now that wants to reach out and out, some kind of detente. we haven't used that word in a long time with russia. go ahead, mark. no, i think we're a long way from it. it's not unfortunately because um, when you get into the heads of some of these western elise, you still believe they can play the war of attrition with russia. you see that they're not, they're not interested in any long term friendship. ready or, or deal with russia, you know, we like russia during johnson's period because it was poor and backward and nothing seemed to work. and they needed the help of them. america, at certain point it was a little tiny window where yeltsin seem to be our guy. you know, soon as prudent came in, so the build the economy, something going on like rushing rushes problem versus the threat rushes,

creating all these problems for us, you know, and what comes from that. what i noticed as a journalist is this package fear mongering, which is delivered through the media. you know, we go this fear mongering go now. so memory is nothing new in the west. we've been doing it, you know, even go back to the days when russell was young. man and nixon went to russia. the soviet union matching 60 and came back with the so called deal rum sold. and cheney, we're looking at him say, now we've got these new russian submarines which are non acoustic, that hundreds of them just parked off the coast of america here. and we couldn't, they couldn't get to get into their heads. that because we couldn't detect the us and russian submarines newsome reins. that doesn't mean that they're not there. in reality, they didn't exist. they won fair. but there it is. always great inflation. yeah. the cleaner the power of nightmares, the power of that fear mongering, huge about didn't stop the next administration for the ministration somewhat correctly from wrong investing in today's and billions of dollars in more military

industrial compet kit to try and detect the so called non acoustic russian met submarines which didn't exist, the same things going on today. we've got more fear mongering over china. i know where it's heading. it's heading towards more military spending. that's the number one thing and it's, we've seen it in ukraine and i'm beginning to wonder, you know, as a skeptical journalist that's covered graft for the best part over 30 years. i'm beginning to wonder whether big international, matthew style and corruption is taking over here are these are leads to we elected as so called democratic leaders of our values of our beliefs in this, in this neoliberalism, are they actually pocketing huge amounts of money from these obstacles? we don't know where these arms go. we don't know even we don't even see the receipts from lockheed martin and rape him. you know, we don't even know they get delivered. you know, if you're as old as i am, you can probably remember reagan coming to power on the arms,

the arm scandal with the conscious. you know, reagan use the fog of war to cover up all this secrecy. to create secrecy over basically selling arms, iranians, which is a legal taking $30000000.00 off iran and taking $18000000.00 of that and giving it to the counters to $5.00 to $7.00 inches in the graduate. all course from the illegal he got off the hook. he would never know for that because he used the fog of war to actually move dirty money around people in the worst of though very naive . they don't understand it. and the money, the people that did take the fall for it were pardoned of yes, i am the president of the and already and so we're going to quite good job also. i mean we, i hate in booking tony blair's name again, sorry, but i mean to knock about the, you know, the, the, the, the dominance of the west coming to an end. i mean he, he was part of the, the tipping point. he was very much with the, the agreeing to the legal war in iraq to the point isn't why me thing. what i'm

going is that the point about ukraine and the point about iraq and the point about afghanistan is dirty money. you don't keep money is all about these games. how do you move money around? how do you store dirty money? how do you save money and you cream dirty money of huge arms contracts. a son said pretty much the same thing about afghanistan. he said, the point of us get guns done was not to finish a war winter war. it was create a sort of black zone where you could keep a little dirty money and keep everybody in check. you know, i was afghanistan, 2000 something ohio, a british soldiers. and one of the biggest frustrations they had was that was show me the head come video of while they were fighting taliban once on field. other people were collecting a heroine, morphine on the other side, and packing it away in it. and, you know, so there was a little corruption there. and i think all i see in ukraine now is 30 money. i see . does the money in china now? who's getting this money? who is actually profiteering go was wrong, but you're only iran, contra fist. we still don't know today how those american arms companies got paid

the $30000000.00. how they get paid. i think they will end up calling it the 100 by model. ok. glen, you're going back to the big picture of the end of the unit polar moment. i mean, are we in that vicinity is trap right now? i mean, because, because i think we're all in agreement. yeah. it's a, is a combination of ideological possession and greed. okay. i mean, again, if there was a rift, i mean that wasn't when it was the keep it going though, the whole thing is the keep it going. it looks like that's something they may try in ukraine. i don't think they're going to be nearly as successful. that's why i think the pumping so much money in their big hub, it now all you care. okay. and they'll be no accounting for it later. just like in afghanistan. so. so glen, i mean, are we in a trap right now with the westbound enough to, to maintain its ideological predominance because it's messianic

b or turn to pours because everything's well loss of base. they've created a situation where either you win completely or you lose completely, but world history is everything's in the middle. it doesn't usually get the extremes. go ahead one. no, i agree, but it also depends how one would define the objectives. i mean, if you look at ukraine and russia, they were actually moving towards a little diplomacy. we're moving forward towards disagreements as we know in march . and again, what's not the student is that the ukrainians walked away from it because the united states and the person to do so, arguing that, you know, you can, we will give you all the work. and of course there's no, no one of the things today that you came across about. still, the strategy is give you credit weapons weapons for what if, because if you process it's going to continue this going and i get it from the u. s

. congress. no. and the media you comparing this idea over and over again. this is an opportunity as well to bleed ross and dr. second nomic and military power. so i think this idea of dragging out to the war is, is part of the part of the goal. and it's also good for our minds to building because what, what the state of the key military power is, a lot of influence comes from having this enduring complex. i mean, and you might have been trying to get the economic and political it was over the year for years. only now with this war i'm going is our dear p and bending over and doing what the americans want to do. and i think you can also see the same possibly in asia, military conflict begins to intensify or escalate some pressure on with china. maybe it can mobilize some of the neighbors of china with united states. and

obviously, the reason i'm saying it's because we sing the song as well. this agreement now, which made in israel and then going to saudi arabia. this is to build up the rhetoric against iran. now, why would united states do this? well, obviously this can open up for this earlier type on your over. it would also be simply to short use leadership influence and the release for having this conflict there. the have to look towards students for leadership and that's the source of influence in the region. so again, i am not sure what else to explanation for because pursuing a conflict with us, russia, europe, china, in asia, and iran now in the middle, is a major war there. if you can't possibly fight on 3 front. so i think this having this slow burning conflict is minimum, might be a strategic objective. yeah. well that a martin it exactly in the,

the 3 regions. and i mentioned in my, my introduction, i mean if you have come that you have risk. busy are crisis, inflation is itself the justification to do to be involved in, in these, in these areas here. because i have always said like in the middle east, b, u. s. in the west got out of the middle east, they would make their peace. it might be very turbulent and might be very violent, but they would come to terms ok, the same thing in asia. but when you have the western powers, primarily the united states, that is it, it creates a, a slippery slope not to make hard decisions. okay. and on top of it, i mean, you know, we glenn was saying here, i mean, the european, the west has dominance in europe, but it's a pretty hollow prize, isn't it? i mean, it, germans are not going to be freezing in the winter. what kind of price is that? i will say that we need a marshall plan, the americans to fly in d. c, threes and truck food over a citizen, europe. you know,

that's where we're heading. i mean, the germans now have to russian the hot water that they cannot, you have to boss week or something, one of the richest countries in the world for the 1st time it is true trying to, you know, so this is worrying. and when you can see the german news, the european union as well, the power is, you know, i think when we look at the west in general, and we talk about middle eastern button in saudi arabia the last couple of days. and the 1st punch is punch, whatever you call it. there's a lot of smoke and mirrors the love b s up there, frankly. and this idea that america is going to stand by israel and we're going to defeat iran. i mean, for god's sake, what planet are you on, man, who is going to take on iran in their right mind? and when it is really, germans push by each is shrunken seat and he just kept saying, well, you know, as a loft or maybe would probably work. nonsense. absolute nonsense. and the interesting thing is, is that we in the west of this, this, this, this, this,

this fear mongering going in the middle east for a long time now because his great business for us is great business for arms countries. some companies, you know, and, and, but the, it's fake, it's completely free and you only have to look very closely at the relationship between saudi arabia and around how it's becoming slightly cooler. and, you know, these 2 neighbors are actually starting to open up by chance towards each other. you know, they're both lining up to join bricks. how can they be enemies? they're both gonna be in a new train or a saying here, it's one big rift here. ok, all right, german run out of a big my guess america for watching us here. are you next time remember? ah ah.

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