their enemy combatants and terrace, who were being detained for acts of war against our country. and that is why different rules have to apply and do. the continuity is extraordinary. if you look like a sketch of the cubicle and of the student volunteer and mcgill university, and then if you look by 4 to 2002. when the 1st al qaeda suspects are being confined at camp x, right? at montana by there and goggles gloves and here most that look god just like that. $957.00 sketch confer with after $911.00. all of us working at p h r. i realized that there would very likely be

a huge problem of interrogation. gone wild, meaning torture, cruel in human and degrading t treatment. with the use of extreme isolation was one of a range of techniques that were employed by officials interrogators and so forth. literally starting all the way back in 2002 for many, many days. and that is just unbelievably destructive and i was the 1st to really learn to go down there in the commission process in a 4 to 6 months period. you see a market deterioration in many respects with if you're a year or 2 solitary confinement, you're going to ask the defendant for the 1st time in 2 years to to,

to interact with other humid beaks. beyond his lawyer and his jailers. it's going to be the jury that's going to decide his life. he's going to be put on the stand. and that's where he's going to speak for the 1st time to the world for 2 years. if to be shut off from the world, it's impossible on cash. who spent about 9 years an active duty, and then i'm still in the reserves in 2011. the department of defense assigned me to assist on the team representing acknowledging mohammad, the, the li defendant in the 911 case. what i can say is that the u. s. government has acknowledged that for the periods between 20032006, mister mohammed was held at,

had certain undisclosed foreign locations, black sites, otherwise known as black cents. it was what a boarded over $183.00 times. that's correct. i can say that there is a memos between the department of justice. i various organs of the u. s. government to include the department of defense, the central intelligence agency, as to what types of enhanced interrogation techniques would be authorized for certain types of detainees who when they began confining pantano, they moved to having psychologists do interviews with patients, discover individual flaws, individual sources of trauma, and security and then they, they also discovered because they were demanding with arabs and muslims. a muslim

males are uniquely upset by nudity and also by female fiscal contact. and fear of don't raise has always played a role in american torture. it's the american torture techniques are part of old military punishments, punishments that were used on slaves and, and, and you might find that strange, but there was one area where slaves were never whipped, but you use clean techniques on them. they didn't leave marks. and that was, if you're going to sell a slave, because a slave that had with marks means that they were not going to obey. and so a clean slave was pass up, got a higher price. a cotton industry in the southern delta states of the united states depended

completely on torture. over the course of, for decades human beings by using their bodies as a technological form, as a technological machine were able to multiply by 8 times the amount of cotton, an individual person could pick in a single day. so the use of torture is absolutely tied at the very beginning ah, in these kinds of cases many people in the system and the people who are imposing these conditions believe that ordinary punishment is too good for these people. and

a lot of it is about the other dis of them religiously, ethnically, nationally, culturally, it's easier that it would be to someone from your own community to do that. so in guantanamo the secretary of defense rumsfeld appointed a commander jeffrey miller, whose job was to extract information. and jeffrey miller made up a cd or staff did. and i included a rack and are under the oh, with the permission of the commander their general sanchez. even can rent training sessions for the interrogators and the staff that upgrade person, or he transmitted the guantanamo techniques to the ab gradstaff.

basically, the restraints were removed and they were told to get results. the thing that became so clear is that what united states was doing was not a secret. it was hidden in plain sight. that wasn't really until the photographs from abu ghraib were released, which were just, you know, the tip of the iceberg of what was actually happening. that people in this country began actually talking about it what we did, you know, was exactly what to do. and i had to work on it all over. yeah, i would recommend exactly the right 3 course of actions that we did exactly right.

for seen them all. not all of them i can differently whether one is 1600 of them. we've only seen up in about 20 maybe 30 is 1600 and they are the worst ones are. are the ones we haven't seen? ah, who

so and yes they were violating was no, it's our regulations in what they were doing, but they were operating within a system in which they were condition. they were structured in order to violate those laws when you arrived at the rate where you aware of what had happened, there are almost immediately after we arrived that i would grab we, we were briefed that there was misconduct, but we weren't given details. and the interrogators that i knew who had been there during that time didn't they didn't talk about it. so we, we didn't know i learned everything through the news. we understood the geneva conventions to mean that absolutely. you know, you, you, you couldn't, you,

you couldn't harm anybody in your care that your primary responsibility was their well being rather than putting them in distress. but then we were confused, and then of course we got these memos from the justice department and from the pentagon. authorizing the use of much more harsh techniques. we started adopting those techniques when i was stationed in mosul. among them were stress, position, sleep deprivation of inducing hypothermia. just a, any way we can put them in distress using dogs. this is, this is a slow so called slippery slope so that they take the gloves off policy allowed american interrogators from going from a certain list of techniques that were let's say aloud. and even those were already

torture to doing extreme things, rape and sodomy. and, you know, the most extreme forms of physical and psychological brutality. sh, ah, i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, accept where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at that point, obviously is to rate trust rather than fit

with the various jobs with artificial intelligence real summoning with a robot, most protective phone existence with a suffered because we're getting the business and you with that was chosen. yeah, americans great. you. when you were with just touching up the group, and i'll certainly provide you with such a short even names off the different student info with you use their own the with them on the probably and you're still with

yours. i brought in the study something that you would have to watch. so it was coming to the one of all things to sort of put it which you, which in the longer you bullshit just in the social, not political push 2 to 3 people for the moment because there's no way to personal view school college. i don't know who you're, you're i know for the don't know as much of a to do used to play in finances. come all both you can just torture somebody on a whim without knowing how to do it. and the reality of course, is that torture like any physical skill right? requires training, requires practice. it requires an institutional setting, a built environment really, you need to have this institution, my space, physical space in which you can perform torture. we want, you know,

we want to be successful. i was against the war. i'm a liberal, i didn't vote for george bush, but i wanted to do my job. well, you know, i felt like, you know, if i can be successful and get intelligence from these people, then we could in the or quickly that would be better for, for iraq, better for, for us my, the people who are in recent days has been a focus a few who have betrayed our values and so is the reputation of our country and with 6 or 7 investigations underway and a military justice system that has values, we know that those in law, whoever they are, will be brought to justice in . i was angry at our leadership because i knew that they were prosecuting

interrogators and guards, and leadership wasn't being held accountable. i i, i was disappointed myself and our behavior over there was terrible. so i was, i was, i was very angry when they have a great trial happened. but i, i got a call from the lawyer for chip frederick. and he asked me to act as part of the defense team. i said, well, the person that you should really talk to is, is embargo. he ran this, experimenting the 19 seventies and the situations at abu ghraib as far as i can tell, are those conditions that are also reproduced in the embargo experiments. chip, frederick, he's the man here. oh, he was the one who had the idea of putting in electrodes on the hood. his lawyer

said, the problem now is the military want to use him in a shell trial in baghdad. in abu ghraib, not only not a single senior officer went to trial, not a single feeney office. they got a recall letter of reprimand. in fact, in some cases, they even got promoted at the offices. so it's, it's the people at the top always take care of the people at the top. mm. for those individuals who were directed by the us government to, to engage in any technique that i believe would price level torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. i think they lose a little bit of themselves every time they have to come in and human act. and am i markers out to them as well, frankly in i don't think i noticed that until i got back. and then, you know,

i tremendous guilt, and i think a lot of us to look signs that were later diagnosed as p p s. d, but i don't know. i think that they have another name for now and i think it was, it's called like moral moral failure. so to assistance is feeling that people come back with after being in war. if they feel like they think they've done things better outside of their moral compass, ah hm. we're still evaluating how we're gonna approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. and i don't believe that anybody is above the law. on the other hand,

i also have a belief that we need to look forward as lowe's, as possible, of looking backwards ah, will look forward backward. well, forward is going to be like backward. if you don't do something about what happened in the past, nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past. and for this, among other people, i fault. president obama, essentially he gave everybody, dick cheney donald rumsfeld. he gave them all a free pass torch w bush. they're all going to be rehabilitated. they're all going to be treated as great statesman. one day, i mean, they gave president obama a nobel prize for not being george w bush. the question, of course, the world tap, dancing around or avoiding as does it work as torture work doesn't work. people

that have information that are part of an underground apparatus, a terrorist organization at revolution or organization accomplished organization. whatever organized form of collective violent chip i, b, they won't break now. and the people that you pick up that are innocence. yes. you tell them to pieces, you'll destroy them, you will ruin them. i think that a few of the people that passed passed through my hands as an interrogator, didn't have intelligence. but most the vast majority of the people that i dealt with work just being picked up because they were males of military age and they were just get swept up. and these raids, i don't think torture is always being used as a method to gain information or, or confessions. it's often just been used are out of out of anger and fear

ah right after september 11th attacks, september 11th, 2001. a very well known hover law professor islander schwartz came up with the chicken bomb theory and he said, so what happens for example, if a terrorist, as a ticking time bomb a small nuclear bomb in time square and the bon sticking. and we only have so much time, we must torture. and then you know, the show $24.00 of course started every segment. well, that giant clock ticking away. and it kind of gave visual

reality visual imprint that resonated with this discussion of ticking time bomb. in addition to the way that it framed our reception of torture on a popular level, just among the civilians in guantanamo itself, they were getting pressure from the department of defense and they have these meetings. and in the meetings they screened the 2nd season of $24.00 and use that as a jumping off place to decide what tortures what methods they were going to propose to donald rumsfeld that they would use against the people they were holding in. guantanamo, i think, was very influential on the people that i worked with. i i know that some of the techniques that people wanted to use they had, should they had seen on television programs. for instance, i mentioned to you our leaders wanted us to mock and mock executions and

also using electricity. and these were things that they had seen on television this . i mean, no, no one trained us on that. that wasn't, that was simply from colored here in the united states. we have this picture of torture as something that is done by the lonely person, the lonely hero, the man who does it more in sorrow than in anger because he is absolutely forced to because so many lives depend on it, is willing to take the moral stain and the moral pain on him. and in order to save all these people, there was always this anxiety in american politics. which is that democracy kind of makes, makes us weaker and less capable of taking the real things that real men should be able to do. there's a very gendered, masculine s sort of notion behind this real men, torture and and,

and democracy makes us sissies. blue in the middle east, we have people shopping, the heads of christians. we have things that we have never seen before. i would bring back water board and i'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than water boarding who had a hearing your terrorism. people could be a free trial detention fcc 2 south for 2 years. they're going anywhere. would you say that the manhattan m. c. c is, while he done in plain sight, a black sight, an american song. yes, but i would say it's black say that the sense of the black sites that people are be taken out and tortured, but they're being tortured in the way that their daily lives are being managed or not managed. they're not living a day or a life. they are a,

a neglected product in a warehouse where there's no maintenance, you know, i mean, even like the most is the most sole engaging place i've ever been. one of the things that we need to consider now and has become quite an issue is how many of these soldiers who use to participate in these kinds of american techniques are now policeman and immigration officers who managed mexicans and hispanics and other sorts of things in integrations. today, there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques, including freezing rooms, sleep deprivation, all these things are now being used on, on, on immigrants and children. so this is one of the terrible things about techniques is that they circulate between war and home and whatever you do and war comes home

ah, ah. ready cheap torture, clean. ready then we can feel that the thing that's being done to protect us isn't really so bad. we have become used to the idea that it is a legitimate moral stance that we do anything we need to in order to feel safe to feel secure. i mean a bizarre way, it's as if the government is trying to make a deal with us. you let us do whatever we want over here on the dark side. and in return i promise you will never die. it's like this fake promise of immortality. but of course, what time on the history of the american empire, a certain 50 years from now, historians might have to say, as french historians have said about france,

no jury. that something was lost in the russian bridge. so torture of moral authority that made america war later sacrificed for this the shamira of effective interrogation. ah, [000:00:00;00] ah, ah, ah, needs to come to the russian state flow narrative. i've stayed as i'm phoning the most 19

d vest. mm hm. landmark ingles also send up a group in 55 with speedy when else calls with will ban in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machines. the state on russia for date and school r t spoke neck. given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with, [000:00:00;00] with australia,

the really long paper for those. but at the summer's warren with the bill was then yet collect amanda things don't will. but a little bit of a deep nozzles. important addition to florida, how it at last, but i had, i left that machine with jekka policy daily mother started at the mirage. a bullshit for 511 national therapy with like got a dealership in hospital when you go to meet at z, u. z. so i was also the upgrade you about the one like i lose bull supposedly

coming out of it or the army government, a book you know, say did you nothing here that we brought out great when you have to run it almost ah ah, when so it's a mile a minute. basically, we need to do anything to earn some money. we should or

a to western worth. so say, and these change complete the landscape or for you to see before it went towards or more. i'm not, you know, anybody with headlines. this is not today, russia and ukraine feel a deal to resolve the longstanding grain issue, opening up like the old school ukrainian gray next part of the slides at the west repeated allegations of moscow weapon izing food, fueling the global hunger crisis. terrorists and criminal groups may use western weapons supply to ukraine, according to info on europe, hold the organizations,