that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously is to great trust rather than fear a various job with artificial intelligence. real seminary with a lot less protective own existence with oh mm hm.

mm. well, which was a part jokingly dismissed or shameful, was the rest of the last, a very complex and very complex phenomena, revealing something hidden, both about its consumers decide is and large like any collective preoccupation. it gratified and punishes souls and exhaust, exposes and misrepresent. with points i still joined the chunk of internet traffic . what makes point such a symbol of desire guys discussed that i'm now joined by georgia, 3 kotik, or a clinical psychologist from house with an author. all law got a kaleidoscope on orange. you're james agreed to talk to you. thank you very much for your time and congratulations on amazing book. thank you very much. thank you. now, you are joining us for that here in russia. it is

a subject of many lower than politically incorrect jokes about the hot finished man coupled with the data. you're citing your book that 9 out of 10 finish man, up consumers a for and i one day if there's something in the health and air that not only spark your interest, but also gave you the that are designed to take courage to explore a project like this no, i think you've seen with my eating exam and i am from the i don't usually and i'm here to have seen key on be 13 years ago. actually the interesting and such as don't be any writing something started dongle and they started reading many books about form that i could find. and then i came to the conclusion that leasing the union and there was nothing recent about it. and the general, the psychoanalytic environment is always addressed,

needs for logical sides. and i thought it was missing, kind of the exploration of the old form itself. and what about the current site, guys? like you said? so this started long before my coming to see me. and by the way, yes, in the book i mention this data about form schumer's. i, i quoted this very interesting research because it was a very long research talking 970 and they're willing wiring many dimensions or trying to be off to the present time. but i know that other research is in different countries in the west, but they said basically this one results. so it's not the only thing the folks are actually everywhere in western countries. there is this kind of resolves like 9 man on 10 and maybe nowadays 767, we went all over town. you go on sooner. so i don't start the hawks

ladies disrespected. just the object of many jokes about the temperament of the spanish boy here in russia. in your book, you show very elegantly how for one minute, your time with the leading fascinations to amass phenomena. and i think i found was 50 years for a starting with the lives ation in denmark and done in the united states in the 19 seventy's. and i was surprised to learn that because of the soviet union in the country where i was born, also needed a major contribution to the industries in what way. well formed, developed for many, let's say for a 100 years, probably in a very nice style for just the accessible by few people in the taking the western countries. like you mentioned that by the end of the sixties and the

beginning of the seventy's born or production and distribution was allowed by goals in some countries starting with denmark in the us down francy to the many other countries. so my book is about mass form. so it's mostly to the period of the last few years and especially dedicated to $24.00 men the sexual men. this is important to say the phenomenon is a why nowadays. so i tried to focus on what is still the mainstream for an hour. and during the seventy's and the former was a kind of side, the industry to industry. and actually there were unions in many countries and actors, movies they were trying to structure to their work as any other work. but when, so if you didn't call out there was a massive let's say, a my,

so many years and women basically we need to do anything in order to, to earn some money. which of course, into the western world. so to say, and these change completely the landscaper for an industry because it went towards a more can anybody with their camera could feel my employer knew something and then also during the ninety's. so basically, these 2 factors together created a new landscape where all the unions and also the rules of the previous to see were swept away by using, you know, so yes, the coming from, especially you playing bellows on the and russia actually see. so to say change the landscape, correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i heard you say in other engineers, it's not just about the the nature of oregon,

how actress is paid and how they are protected. what else about the style shouldn't be aim of the product itself because i heard you say before the back in the seventy's and eighty's. it was much more about the neutral pleasure, but damage shifted to formal violence and dominating kind of genre. do you attribute that to a cultural influx of women from performance of the union, or is it just the, the nature of time itself, or the nature of male sexuality that has changed the word farm? this is a very interesting question. well, i would say that and the availability of women willing to do anything went well together with, with the increasing going towards the extreme that was already present in the seventy's and eighty's. but it was more somehow regulated, and especially in the seventy's since the previous decade, a in the west of

b changes. so from changes there was sammy's movements and movements. so in that moment the, the fact that was representing sexuality as a joyful and disconnected from procreation that as a pleasure for women, it was a very b u. c. element in that moment. so, so it was already extreme during the seventies and eighties. i mean, we can find extreme back them too, but i can see are much different from the current form, which is very much about using a woman for me. it pleasure. i wouldn't dare to say that there was a cultural contribution on the side of the women, i think a teacher who was already there. and the idea that actually we could exploit all

these women are willing to do anything just a markets advantage. so now one of the essential ideas in your book is that technological advances will demonstrate how important is a logical invention. i'm not national tools, they don't just satisfy our needs, but they form and shape them sometimes. but pre approval is an insidious motive. i wonder how do you yourself try to maintain, if not an autonomy, then sound, think me of no dependency on on those technological forms and anything out there. why is interest in question? in a way human beings have always been technology goes on the very 1st time when somebody created the container to bring the water from the river to the cavern. already baffled at technology convention,

something out of the nature. but definitely the last 100 years saw a dramatic change in our landscape to the point that they knology, according to the last prevention and us that there was a lot in the book became the subject of history and actually premium we as human beings are only co historical to technology. so definitely will even if acknowledged a word that is just one of the manual objects technology. but all of this objects that surround us. and that is not only a tool in our hands, depends on how we use bad. this is, are kind of a nice position for me to anders, he's claims that actually we should be worried about how technology use us, which is the reverse perspective, where technology actually can change deeply our human, our emotions. and the way we are in the world is the fact that

technology is the current word. so i don't think that we can, we can imagine a word without it. it's a very, very difficult processed balance. our relationship with technology. we then that knowledge we're, i think that the starting point is to question seriously our technology, the landscape. and i, i mean, i try to do is even use for, for the topic is much wider than, or you mentioned that under the german industrial for lots of our who in many ways was ahead of his time foretelling the dangers of being inflamed by technology. so i saw that his 2nd book of athletes was titled the ap lessons man. i know that you don't like judging moralizing in any way, but do you think by and large, 40 years after the publication of this book we have come to,

you don't be in for kind of being cruel and that people, not all of them, but by and large losing touch, not only with the free period in them or but also the body. is it because when you look at hornets, both the fear this just embodied in the same time as a trans union of all was handed out and the union. yes. yes. you're right. yeah, i personally, i think the word, the side by now present. i really wonder how he would have preceded the current meeting and more for example, on because many sections were based on radio g. it's pretty amazing. he was foreseen is really much more talking about the current word. although he died. i think he, agents so before the ancient yeah,

i do believe that the word is, is present in this moment. i know that there are many other seems there's that much more positive about ecology and they just say the normal developmental human consciousness are going towards that to i am closer to this worries. so to say, and i am worried that the more well i, interestingly that despite human beings so much ahead of his time, he is not widely published in english. you know that, that is, you know, we usually think of the western world as the, and the driver of the 3rd and the 4th industrial revolution. and yet they are very few translations of his work that mostly on when mature in nature. i wonder if that

is just an unfortunate happenstance to you, or if you think that are a form of deliver it will actually ostracizing. yeah, well as an analyst, it's hard enough to think of that. those of me in this regression on this work industry to this, or a finally published in english, i found out this year there is a b work. i think it's published in america about around this works. in general. it's some 500 pages book. so they have now finally translated the something and spoken to him. it's interesting because his 1st book was published, the end of the 2nd world war 248, i think. and the 2nd one, the eighty's, or 99. a, sam, i could find a translation and it was already existing since the sixty's, but in the world. so to say it's funny, last year maybe august,

so i see it as a little bit of a regression because it was a very critical voice. especially for him and he was also contemporary of young and i think union ideas are also seeing a bit of a revival. so maybe it's synchronistic around it in a way that we're coming back to prominence anyway. do we have to take a very short break right now? we'll be back in just a few moments. they can a, oh, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic, that development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful,

very critical. i'm time to sit down and talk ah welcome back to well support the article, a clinical psychologist from finland and also law got assists, a kaleidoscope on foreign georgia before the brit touched upon this very central idea in your book as well as in the work of good there on there's that logical inventions are not natural tools. they not only satisfy our needs but also shape and foster them. and sometimes they even create our needs. and you provide a very interesting example of coca cola as something that for many people actually managed to hijack that basic need for 30 stand by claiming to satisfy and it actually increases it. and i think that's

a very sort of common thing within the big industry as well as with them, the big pharma industry because they are very a lot of very obnoxious images there. if you look at the most prevalent disease is metabolic diseases, right now, be diabetes. dementia, a, b, c, many of them would be trace to people are being hooked on certain foods or on certain habits. and i think one is perhaps to read, recreating the same dynamic and populations that could be very helpful. just some very imaginative system, but in many people it also creates addiction. and i understand it's a very complex question. i had to say you don't like passing judgments, but where do you think we should start in terms of both assigning responsibility? because you know how budgets are something that we are old concerned about is the public good. and also helping people develop

a helpful and mutually respectful relationship with technology and new interventions and the industries that produce them. yes. yeah. your questions are always very interesting for be they would require a lot of time to, to reflect on the questions. well, i would say that taking the example corner and the name of my book was to show different sides of it, which is something that i didn't find many books. i called the book a kaleidoscope for that every chapter should have been a color and all the colors together. they were for me to come to school so that the reader can turn the book so to say and see maybe some configurations or others. in order to by the question mean that went on is a complex form,

is having the ability to see many colors and, and embrace this complexity is the 1st step we have to do before doing what you are asking. the same about technology technology is a very complex topic. why is a lot of reflections? and so just say deepening here many ask before we, we can decide something about what can we do in order not to be just addicted. so i thought it was me too many books or was this complexity. they were only focusing on some aspect, for example, addiction or a logical version. but form is, is a very complex object that actually is just a good seymour, many other phenomena of our work. so what you asked

requires 1st of all to know much better and so much a deeper level. and then we can try to understand what can we do about it. well, we can invite out here to get your book and reflect on it, but i can tell you from a personal perspective that one of the very simple but for some reason, very insightful ideas for me. it was that, that, that mean not just leave it in our bodies, but we are the bodies. and the desiring bodies and, and your book demonstrates is in a very interesting way. and there is, i think, a huge difference in perceiving yourself as living in the body and actually imagining your sound that same body. i can you, can you speak about that a little bit? yes, this is, this is an important point. because for, for example,

and experience technology can get to a screen basically where speaking nowadays or videos or pictures. just how that knology invites kind of splits with the bobby. because we look at some checks and sex performance. and the only senses that we are using in that moment are basically sides and hearing because there is but actually sex as a real experience as an important experience. so it would be much more involving be like a smell and most of all very interesting how, like you said before, these are kind of mutation of opposites. like why is a sexual thing, but actually doesn't have anything to do with the sexual, embody experience because we're just sitting in front of the screen. there's nothing a physical there. there are some physical things. mightily physical people not

just watch they, i think use that imagination. sometimes there has to, i mean, there is not an embodied experience with people or shouts, but it's not the same thing as a real sexual support can actually ask you about them. because i think this is a fascinating question and sexuality is one of the sort of 5 top base against things that's calling and identified. and i think more than others, it requires the presence of the other, you know, and unions like to talk about the, the benefits of living and imagination. but i perhaps downsize to that as a clinical psychologist. what are some of the dangers of living out too much of your sexuality in this imaginary re out?

yes, this is also very important to i believe that the union, but all of the 2nd i need to work. let's say it's very much leaning on the verbal side, and we tend to not to get too much attention to the body, but there are movements so to say in the words that are trying to improve the body level much more. and there are very interesting crossovers between, for example, you theory and authentic move manager or dance therapy and other teams that more than body. so yeah, there is always nice to disconnect from the girl and body experience. there is the need to keep together like the imagination, but also the, the body lever. so important to acknowledge object the vice discrete from the body experience in a way. and this is why example, i mean this is happening

a lot with that we can disconnect from the body. we can disconnect from the emotions. we can disconnect even from ethics because we just watch a video with our responsibility and what's going on that maybe some violent video or something at the speaker will that he wouldn't. we would never jewelry out of it . still we are enjoying something which is violent. so there's a lot of questions that are poor by these things, and definitely to try to reconnect the body and minds of much more also in the union. the theory put out the wrong because if we look at the data, despite these very wide availability of the people around the developed world, a having less tax their having it's later in life. it's also less creative, not only because of their birth control, but also because of b precipitously balling prone cones. in many of the man,

if you step outside the corn for a while, what do you think is happening with human sexuality in general? within the larger view of technology and the, the 4th industrial revolution that we're about to enter. yeah, well on one hand, there are many signs of crisis, like you were mentioning on the other. i'm reading so many interesting books that are address and sexuality in new ways and they're interested in ways. i her mind the book a speech, the authors fema authors. but i am reading a lot of books about to try to see and couple relationship and already emory and many you. let's say developments also relate sex. so like you said in the beginning there was some opposite phenomena happening at the same time. there is a crisis of the previous way, maybe sexuality, the patriot prizes,

investing. also, the way to try to get has always be tended and hopefully, you know you elements and circulate. you will change the landscape in the future. so i hope that we will have all better sex and better relationship. and yeah, well, and have a better relationship with reality, which i think is the goal of any psychological school, but especially in psychology, seen as one of the allowed reality to really real gone like magic to mere mortals. since you have the word, goddesses in the title, what do they have to do with base activity asked for? and yeah, i know we have a very short time left to so i just try to make a huge about maybe, maybe the listen. i will be curious to see in the, in the more expensive way. and i had the idea that say,

the hypothesis that a factor of fascination for form should be found also outside the usual logical explanations is definitely fascinating for the majority of men and women around the world. could be one of the genders. and i believe that's a reducing everything to g is beats to narrowing. so my hypothesis is that actually porno, poor. it's possible to find some sheet to walking on the ear as was connected to the sake of a big topic, or you know, the years to say there was a place, a place beyond the bad, a place or place of the got the place of the human beings,

so in a very strange way, or somehow something that has to do with her and she did that and i explained it in the book, but it's really along their topic now. and so the reason i sense that the form that there is some hint to the secret that that actually is fascinating because believe that the soccer eyes were a statement. that is, dad can say that the secret has disappeared as a you know, any union of what they have replied to you. that because i can only work out there . and there is a whether he's called the not the, the guys are still present it. it's a matter of seeing and perceiving them and having a relationship with them today. i have to leave it there. i wish i could have more time to discuss fascinating book, and i invite our readers to to get it that you have an advantage over russians. i

think it's still available around the world on amazon, so to take a chance on that. thank you very much with this possibility to talk think and thank you. what you hope to hear again next week, all the part a with with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be in arms. race is very dramatic. development only personally and getting to disease. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully,

very difficult time to sit down and talk with russia confirms i miss. i'll strike all military targets in the form of odessa. it follows a barrage of use ations, bali, the west ukraine. most schools already breached the new great export deal. this by itself, admitting weak stores were not it also ahead. all countries of africa have sovereignty, are free to choose their own policies, including foreign policies in the interest of their own people. the words of egypt, foreign minister, a following talks with his russian counterpart in cairo who's on the tour about for again, this may of washington which are expressed alarm about moscow talking to african nations also among the stories that shape that.