hello and welcome to cross. well, things are considered on people, started russian special military operation and ukraine is tightened. nuts, it declares it must be independent of russian energy. well, at the same time, terrified moscow might terminate supplies altogether at any time. for the e u. energy policy is an ideological struggle. ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel in budapest. he's a pastor in the god which will be found on you to the locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet bob and she's a political analyst and editor. and you know me, internet media or i generally cross up rules and back. that means you can juggling time you want and i would appreciate it. when i start out with george in budapest, georgia, very simple question, does the, you have

a coherent energy policy because it seems like, you know, i don't want to use a heat metaphor, but i, well there their hair is on fire talking about how to deal with energy during the summer in the upcoming winter. they want to cut so dependence on russia, but they're terrified as i said in my introduction that it could be shut off. i mean, what is it? go ahead. that's exactly right. and so we have on the one hand, lion you, president of the commission, was that we are going to cut us off completely from russian fossil fuel. and we will never be dependent on them again. and then the next day, she turns around and uses russia, although withholding energy supplies, you know, holding back gas, you know, and they, using gas is a political weapon. so, you awesome, well, do you want russian gas or don't you want russian? yes, you can get a straight answer. i mean,

depends on what time of day you ask the question and this is really low point. they have been using russia for months and months of using gas as a weapon. when the only people will be using energy as a weapon, as in the, you know, i mean the, you know what they say by russian colon pause, then they say, we're not going to have any russian oil info starting in december. and then they close down the stream to before it even started a grain closing off one of its a due transport, russia, gas, europe. and then we have the, you know, the, the sanctions coming from canada when a compressor that was needed repairing was sent to siemens and germany. germany sent it to canada, canada, no, we're not returning it because it's sanction, as of all the issues being driven from the western end of the propaganda

is the somehow in russia is using energy as a weapon. when, when did that happen? well, a demon, i mean, the real political weapon here has been sanctions. the only thing that's really changed with russian energy policy, b, b, europe, is that the russian said this, the base of started charging in rubles, which it makes perfect sense because of the sanctions and the, and then those swift system, russia being shut out. i mean, if they continued paying in dollars or euro's it would just be frozen in confiscated. so i mean, that's the only significant change. and we all of the uproar over north stream one . well it's, it's back in business. ok. most of the gas is flowing again. i mean, it doesn't really make any sense to me what they want to do, and there is no unity in the european union. so what is russia supposed to do? these are the, the, the, you have to deal with independent and in the,

in the individual members of the you because the, you, as a whole, has no coherent policy. what say you the mom? well, i think sometimes you just plays all the stuff on just a very often they just use this phrase. butcher is using a gas as a wiper. they don't even add the political. so people have these. oh, terrible images. oh, wow. so this is a terrible pres, due to say, in your, you know, so these people, i don't even in the way they express but you are right about the, what i would collective incentives. the problem with you is that the sum of its members is a lot less racial. then every member they need to get you. i mean, all that most tragic, more playful to see don't. so the,

you were taken collective. i mean, the situation with russia is just the latest example, the experts in germany, for example, the end of the johan conference. you know, he says, basically like a 100 percent dependence on russian guess. bulgaria is almost 100 percent event. this is india. it's damaged. so even if germany thinks that it can provide for itself who is thinking about go get it right. the 2nd, the 2nd such example is syria. i'm in the and that's remember all the events develop well key. there were disturbances there abroad us in syria and, and do ever so instead, or either stay in your role or how been off in the

middle of the road solution. you can elect to really support the position. and we know the result, you know, the civil war, the gears. so all the more painful students of the you are connected. you know, i'm terrified the voice. there's no collective though there's no solidarity here. george is in the country right now in hungry. they basically won't say it on this program bit. they went their own way. it was put it that way. george. yeah, no that that's right. you back last week a foreign minister b, c, r. go through to moscow breaking ranks with the rest of the year and signed an agreement with russia for 700000000 metric tons of natural gas. it is a hungry needs, a gas as a well,

we're not sharing any of those gas with anyone. with a day off, the european commission issued this new dig that of demanding the all you member states reduce the gas consumption by 15 percent. and then that would be a protest from a number of states including spain and portugal, and greece saying, well, why should we come back when our gas use? this is a german problem. it is very much a part of the way the germans do this. i mean, the germans make these big decisions and then they force everyone else to live with . this is, i mean, casing point is of course the, the decision of i'm going to model 2015 to start bringing in immigrants into europe, which everyone else was on the, on their, of an obligation to say as well. have

a peculiar understanding of solidarity, don't they? have it, we do it. everybody else that voluntarily. yes. that, yeah, exactly. and it back, it was germany that has been very dependent on russian gas. and then he was germany that made these extraordinary decisions like canceling the stream to at the very last moment. and so, and this is why the europeans are now saying, you know, a well, where was germany when we needed them out of the 2008 crisis. 6 and we need a bailout and suddenly the germans say, well, we don't have the money to bail anyone out. so now will the europeans are supposed to. ready bail germany as well. and also we had, over the last few days, we had the threatening to shut a pipeline that was supplying europe that you know, that has been agreed to. and so, you know, it again, just adds to the quandary here. i mean, russia threatened to cut off energy,

but it's ukraine. that is reckoning to cut off. russian entered the customers in europe. so, i mean, where's the, where's the angered towards the ukrainians for threatening europe, energy security go ahead. doesn't make any sense. well, it makes sense, but i was logically, there you go. that's made, but it may sound well for the, i'm sorry, it was. what was the war? just all the states opposing north jim bon, enrolled student to me. they said that these rush and get has to go, so the grain will get russia said, oh, you know, we are wanting to continue to supply through the brain. but that just makes sense to me. now that you get no, no, no way to deal with. now that there is basically this

terrible confrontation within russia and ukraine. your brain is charging some of these. i stay in the line what they call the occupied. so i mean, rush to gain weight. even though it was doing, i think it was the you were that said that usual all rely but you bring bolts to do is use them. explain to our audience. what does the united states happen to be in energy? can you like me? why do they, they poking their beek into something that is so important. we're not talking about, you know, the size of a condo here. we're talking about people going to be warm in the winter. you know, you're absolutely right. united states has not. and, you know, with this russian drummond pipeline, i mean, what we'll do is say i said with the pose a pipeline from canada, united states. so in fact, why that has been doing for us, brilliant to, you know,

and he created the programs in american life. but we never even thought about raising any questions about pipelines between mexico in tonight, canada and the other night. these things to lead has the right to know to pronounce judgment on russia, also drama project to impose sanctions on the company's, participate in it. and before that, they're not a state sabotaged and walked against south board, which was basically a app supply and cheap gas to graduate. my reason recently. well, in fact, part of the problem with white, reese had this terrible crisis. it could be a waste if they had to rush. well, it would be so, but it was, you know, they were paying commission and a great extent the united states that basically did everything will be sol, steve,

going to never comes a door with. but i guess my question was, when a rhetorical is united states have to be with european energy security. well, it's all about money. they want them to buy american energy when she is being fossil fuels are being attacked in the u. s. so there's only one outcome here, a higher price, so the europeans, when they get up and cheap russian energy and paper very expensive gulf in american . and wow, that's a brilliant move, isn't it? go ahead. we got it. of course, it makes the europeans very uncompetitive. i mean, you're already has problems with keeping up with east asia, but now the one thing that they had which was very reliable source of energy for now they've given that up and they've done it on the american russia. they call thinking ukraine has come under american, russian was the americans who pressed the ukraine membership in the name that was

the americans continue to provoke them to provoke and basically any of your business. and gave the america a little hard on some real estate with our ah, ah, a, and engage him in the trail. when so many find themselves will define, we choose to look for common ground. ah

a construction we've she and we've been which exception a little who has recently been diagnosed with center of chicago. lots of them will be with the so please the semester ashley with you? yes. do ship. he's off. yeah. you national, another user would put on some with, oh no, but i live on doin new york. we'll look at least the the newest sheet on when you hit them. my review, my auto bought. yeah. which in that usually a score to us?

no, i would get a oh no. oh yes. oh yeah. ha. oh i welcome back to class. we're all things considered. i'm here labelle. this is the home edition. to remind you we're discussing some realtors. ah, we will go back to d. m a here in moscow. from centrally, when we look at this, a conflict in ukraine, at least for the western, they won't say it out loud, but you know, it's not about freedom. it's not about the mob not about territorial. that's all,

that's what we keep hearing on the airways. but it's really about energy here and not fossil fuel energy. it's all about green energy. and ukraine is being used as a segue to push the transition. this is something that, you know, this is a gleeful about it there, gleeful about because they, they don't have to bring it to their people and vote on it the way it is. because you know, rules based order and all of this type of stuff here. but at the same time, and this is what i need to explain, they're opening up the whole mines again and are, well, main natural gas maybe isn't so dirty here. i mean, what are their priorities here? because if they, on the one hand, you know, it's, you know, territorial integrity. on the other hand, it's agree new deal. but they keep interweaving and clashing with each other and they can't make up their mind. what is their priority? uh huh. well, i have, i would say not the privilege but the duty to read the warning german press. i'm just read it so we don't have to thank you this side. you know,

they the right that 62 percent of the guns for the government's advice. and now the work themselves a few times a week and or less. okay. 162 percent of people already believe these crap. and you know, the way that the government is dealing with people in terms of like, you have to read, you know, that the temperature in your boss or you have to watch read. i mean that these people who use russian channel story period. but we know what he told you the difference between all sort of darion and to 3330 him say ok, don't publish every day, just on your printer. i is insane. how else of what's your cells? which theater ways you could go to which books you should read, you know how to educate your children. so in this situation, during our walks su,

but to put it there in state, they tell their people car, wash. what is wood for their house? there is a very, very strange theory. now that washing very often makes is bad and it's just the plain and the problem with their in states is that they use ideology against math against mathematics. i mean in gear force, which is a huge or very what management model their best interest of gov bush times, all the handle on the he just gave a mathematical analysis or what's going on that germany has 14 medium co holds. 20000000 of them are heated by a guess. rational gas, it calls for 55 percent of this. how are going to do it without? ok. so this is a mathematical question. then i know what it will answer. what ran it. worse for

short periods of time, you know, don't use your car, don't use your i don't know. what else? yeah. go microwave. well, i mean, it smacks all the sudden even worse. well, i mean it, it, george, i mean a, is this going back to the 1840s? i mean, i'm, i'm, i'm trying to understand what's going on in the world is a super competitive police. but, and then we look at the europeans, you know, i mean what, what is it, you know, pragmatism isn't ideology. can they marry the 2? it seems that they, they're, they're, they're, they're pushing things that are just diametrically opposed to each other. and the result is cold and lack of productivity and you know, the world passes them by a, some kind of backwater. and this is all done intentionally good. yes, it's a short reason. there's been this seamless transition from lee cove is area now to

the energy stair. i mean, it's just you, you don't even notice it. so we was screaming at the anti back says the non mosque, whereas the people who are protesting against the lock down, you know, they were with them because they refused to express social solidarity. they were entirely selfish, and we were supposed to hate them. so now we're rapidly going to be moving into a new era with all those who don't want to share out their energy. i mean, i'm going to be really in the process, you know, they don't want to share out the gas and that they can design their own deals with russia. and so this is now everyone who is going to be taking showers of a to long, you know, they're going to be the is, i guess that's a new thing. shower shaming. is that the shower exactly. all people, you know, watch the car, you know, more than once a month. so if you ever now it's only going to be

a fall in be insufficiently for expressing solidarity and of course will be put in this, this isn't the how the, you know, this as the, the said, this kind of a no one ever really know. this is the parent was going to say, no one really kind of a, you know, to the, from the mental questions about the go with no one will on the mental question. to one end is all this, why are we making the sacrifice? no, you just don't you know, shop and just get with the program or else you know, we're going to punish you. and so anyway, give me a mindful thinking shot too long in the shower. we had 0 with 0 cove and now we have 0 fossil fuel. ok, niema. let me go to you. i mean, usually when these unusual and very strident demands of people, it's during a momentary crisis. ok. moment case. you know,

what i mean by that is that, you know, when the crisis will come to an end and you go back to not, this is completely open ended get you started saving 15. you're, you're told to save 50 percent on energy towards what end. i mean, it will that make the situation better? how a li alleviated they don't have any answers. there's no, there's no exit from this. it just seems it's going to be accumulator. they're going to me and then the 40 percent and 60 percent, and the result will be the same. i don't understand what, what they're driving at what their goal is. go ahead, my lease. i'm sorry, i want to go to the area. i mean, if i write something like this, our people are terrified about get, you know, just 19 percent inside their own the suite, while people with russia have been through so many difficult, just them much more like sustainable. so i mean this is difficult that they get it

looked that amy is so strong. amy can make any sacrifice. that means that you should be making sacrifices. ok, 15 percent less. today's going to percent less. the moral. don't ask why? well, if you ask us why, because you know, if you ask us, why did we support when you greenwich started before being in 2014? don't expect us from us to trust. these are the people, you know, we have to see places change. so we're not responsible with these people did. they didn't, they're bad. so i'm in the wrong way and the, they're all good. nice, nice, nice groups. you know, i don't ask any questions that ask a question to put it, you know, via and also what is very important is you always require prices. and 2nd, at that it is, you always intimidate,

you will all die from point. there will be an alignment. so if you don't listen to us and if you don't work with all the water line, it will go apps, you know. so basically let me remind you how people are basically broaden germans in to what you said that we have not enough even space off. let us wrong, if we don't expand into years, we're going to die. and that was a lie because germans on a much smaller energy, also that will to create a sustainable economy, which is not going to get them. but a segue is perfectly the last question i have for george here, you're right. we have the german economic miracle because there was cheap soviet then that later, russian gas. so george, you know, on a global scale here, the global south, the saying, you know, the europeans got really rich because they had access to very cheap fossil fuels,

primarily oil and gas. so now they're looking, they're stepping up your plate, say, our turn we would like that energy to do exactly what the europeans had and what they are they willing to give up, but we'll make it in line. we'll take it. that's exactly what's happening. yes, yes. but the strange thing is that the europeans and the extent the americans are weighted to a ology that is propagated by the world economic forum and, and never. and it's not entirely clear what the deal is, other than they want to reduce the population of the world. i mean, i, that's their agenda. and green energy somehow falls in with that agenda. you know, as was the, the fear of pandemic. and of course, you know, hey, people having children or anything like that. so it's a part of the same thing. are they using this, a crisis of ukraine,

essentially to car all used to fossil fuels and to move to these renewables? they know perfectly well there is no way in the world that germany can continue to be an economic power relying on solar panels and, and wind, but the pushing it and you have to think that they somehow don't you're in the united states to be kind of this engine will grow, i mean, they want to continue to be prosperous themselves. they don't really want to extend this prosperity to others. i mean, it seems, you know, the europeans want to set an example, but the world that, that's something that we see here and, you know, you know, eventually, you know, you will be carbon chain. and you know, this country uses do much are, but you know that, that will be, you know, it will be another reason for nato. it to happen. be, are they being there? but what bridge do? ok, but i mean, but it doesn't work logically because then they become less competitive. they

become for the come more irrelevant. and so everyone, the learning example be don't do what it drives you would do the grow. go at the last 30 seconds, go to you. well, for a magazine smell radio spot, all in europe, extreme is all the groups not only about which are concerned about it, but also about energy crisis. so we're all team is now people don't. and 2nd, there was one person who said that basically by this policy, europe is destroy and you will be in humane capitalism. that was able to handle growth. i'm just go get him. so i'm, i'm not saying it on my own, but as i said it would be, disfigurement isn't, this is always food. this is always seem to back the, the o conspiracy theories. right? well, it will have as well. and you know, at least a winter coming up, we'll have cold capitalism. ok. see how that feels?

ok. go out. ok. i'm watching themselves a, digging further in into their problems. it's extraordinary to witness gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests. in budapest and here in moscow, i want to thank our viewers from watching us. here are the, remember across top roles. ah, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to place trust rather than a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with

a robot must protect its own existence with who, who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing additional strong sanctions. today russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing a little bit when you're sitting in the morning or we're banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g. i. g, of course with regard to joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang

ah, thank you very up, moustache and we've she and what it looks like. so we're showing a little was recently from the actual dentist to move center of chicago from san denise at the blue book where you can pretty out the so please some last ashley with diet. this is just not already in putting me on a mazda 6 is what are the sprawl i at that? should cynthia about the moves? lucia shows a list to see the where it's a finish. come see the nose up when you marginal the source of bob. it could not like a pizza, but still the one that isn't cook with don't reach him will.