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hello and welcome to cross all things considered on people about since the started brushing special military operation ukraine, the ear has tied itself up and not declares it must be independent brushing energy well at the same time terrified moscow might terminate supplies altogether for the e. u. energy policy is an ideological struggle. ah discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel in budapest. he's a pastor and the guy which will be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet bob and she's a political analyst and editor at you know me, internet media or a gentleman crossed up rules and back. that means you can jump anytime you want.

and i would appreciate it when i start out with george in budapest. george is very simple question does the you have a coherent energy policy because it seems like, you know, and i don't want to use a heat metaphor, but i well there their hair is on fire talking about how to deal with energy during the summer in the upcoming winter, they want to cut so dependence on russia, but they're terrified as i said in my introduction that it can be shut off. so i mean, what is it? go ahead. that's exactly right. and so we have on the one hand, lion, you president of the commission, who said we are going to cut us off completely from russian fossil fuels and we will never be dependent on them again. and then the next day, she turns around and uses russia, although withholding energy supplies, you know, that holding back gas, you know, and they using gas as

a political weapon. so you awesome, well, do you want russian gas or don't you want russian? yes, you can get a straight answer. i mean, depends on what time of day you ask the question and this is pretty low point. they have been using russia for months and months of using gas as a weapon. when the only people will be using energy as a weapon, as in the, you know, i mean the, you know what they say by russian colon pose. then they say we're not going to have any russian oil in both starting in december. and then they close down the stream to before it even started a grain closing off. one of it's a go to transport, russia, gas, europe. and then we have the, you know, the, the sanctions coming from canada when a compressor that was needed repairing was sent to siemens in germany,

germany center, canada, canada. so no, we're not returning it because it's sanction as well. all the issues being driven from the western end of the propaganda is the somehow in russia is using energy as a weapon. when, when did that happen? well, my, i mean, the real political weapon here has been sanctions. the only thing that really change with russian energy policy, b, v, europe is that the russians that they gave us the base started charging in roubles, which it makes perfect sense because of the sanctions and the, and then those swift system, russia being shut out. i mean if they, if they continue paying in dollars or euro's, it would just be frozen in confiscated. so i mean, that's the only significant change. and we all of the upper or over north stream one. well it's, it's back in business. ok. most of the gas is flowing again. i mean, it doesn't really make any sense to me what they want to do,

and there is no unity in the european union. so what is russia supposed to do? these are the, the, the, you have to deal with independent and in the, of the individual members of the you because the, you, as a whole, has no coherent policy. what say you the mom? well, i think sometimes you just plays all the stuff on just a very often they just use this phrase. butcher is using a gas as a wiper. they don't even have the political. so people have these, oh, terrible images. oh wow. so, you know, this is a terrible bruce to say in europe. so these people, i don't even know the way they express themselves. but you are right about the what i would collective incentives. the problem with you is that

the song macros is a lot less ration than every member they need to get you. i mean, all the most tragic, more playful. see, don't. so the, you were taken collective. i mean, the situation with russia is just the latest example. the experts in germany, for example, the n e o and conference. you know, he says basically like a is always 100 percent dependent on russian guess. bulgaria is almost 100 percent event. this is in the magazine dungeon. so even if germany thinks that it can provide for itself who is thinking about the gary, this will make it the 2nd the 2nd such example is syria. i mean that's remember all the events develop well key. there were disturbances, there are products in syria and, and do ever so instead,

all either stay neutral or how been off in the middle of the road solution. the you can elect to really support the position. and we know the result. you know, the civil war gears. so all of them most painful way you connect if you know i'm terrified voice, there's no collective though there's no solidarity here. george is in the country right now in hungry. they basically won't say it on this program bit. they went their own way. it was put it that way. george. yeah, no, that that's right. last week a foreign minister, b. c, r. go through to moscow breaking ranks with the rest of the year and signed an agreement with russia for 700000000 metric tons of natural gas.

it is a hungry needs, a gas as a well, we're not sharing any of those gas with anyone with a day off the european commission issue, this new dig that are demanding the all you member states reduce a gas consumption by 15 percent of those. and that would be a protest from a number of states including spain and portugal, and greece saying, well, why should we come back when our gas use? this is a german problem. it is very much a part of the way the germans do this. i mean, the germans make these big decisions and then they force everyone else to live with . this is, i mean, casing point is of course the, the decision of i'm going to michael 2015 to start bringing in immigrants into

europe, which everyone else was on the under of an obligation to say, well, have a peculiar understanding of solidarity, don't they have it we do it. everybody else that voluntarily. yes. that yeah, exactly. and in fact, it was germany that has been very dependent on russian. yes. and then he was germany that made these extraordinary decision by canceling the hosting to at the very last moment. and so, and this is why the europeans allow, say, you know, a well, where was germany when we needed them out of the 2008 crisis. 6 and we need a bailout and suddenly the germans say, well, we don't have the money to bail anyone out. so now we will the europeans are supposed to. ready a bail germany as well. and also we had, over the last few days, we had threatening to shut a pipeline that was supplying europe that you know,

that there's been agreed to. and so, you know, it again, just adds to the quandary here. i mean, russia threatened to cut off energy, but it's ukraine. that is reckoning the cut off russian energy customers in europe . so, i mean, where's the, where's the angered towards the ukrainians for threatening europe, energy security go ahead. doesn't make any sense. well, it makes sense, but i was logically, there you go. that's made. but it may sound well for me, i'm sorry. it was. what was the war? just all state's opposing bond unrolled student to they said that case, these are actually get has to go. so the grain will get russia said, all you know, we are wanting to continue to supply through the brain. but that just makes sense

to me. now that you know no way to deal with now that there is basically this terrible confrontation within russia and ukraine. your brain is charging some of these by saying the best line, what they call the occupied so i mean, roughly the game, the way even though it was doing, i think it will be you that said the usual all rely but you bring bolts to do is this dim explained to our audience, what does the united states up into? what is your be in energy? can you like me? why did they put poking their beak into something that is so important? we're not talking about, you know, the size of our because here we're talking about people going to be warm in the winter. you're absolutely right. you know, and, you know, with this russian drummond pipeline, i mean what we'll do, i'd say that, oh,

with the pose a pipeline from canada, united states. but in fact, joe biden has been doing for us. brilliant, you know, he created all the programs in america, had to do supplies, but we never even thought about raising any questions about pipelines, mexico, and tonight, the candidate i think, has the right to, you know, to pronounce judgment. one, russia, russian government project to impose sanctions, all the companies participate in it. and before that, they're noted, states savage and worked against solve for which was basically an air supply and gas to read and agreed to do well. in fact, part of the problem, the reason why i read this 3rd crisis is going to be a voice if they had the rush or it would be so. but it was you,

in your opinion, commission, and great. they stand tonight speech that basically did everything. but be solid, the project never comes to the door. but i guess my question was, when rhetorical in the united states have to do with european energy security? well, it's all about money. they want them to buy american energy when you know is being fossil fuels are being attacked in the us. so there's only one outcome here, a higher. right? so the europeans. but he get up and cheat rushing energy and paper very expensive gulf in america. wow, that's a brilliant move business. go ahead. no, it is. of course, it makes the europeans very uncompetitive. i mean, you're already has problems with keeping up with east asia. but now the one thing that they had, which was very reliable, she source of energy for now they've given that up and they've done it on the

american pressure. they call thinking ukraine has come under american pressures. the americans who pressed the ukraine membership in the late that was the americans continue to provoke them to provoke and basically any of your business it up and gave the american a little hard on some real estate. ah, ah, a to see how it becomes the answer to an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will to part,

we choose to look so common ground. a welcome back, across all things considered id labelle. this is the home edition to remind you were discussing some realtors. oh, it was go back to d. m a here it in moscow from centrally. when we look at this, a conflict in ukraine, at least for the western, they won't say it out loud, but you know, it's not about freedom. it's not about democracy, not about territorial. that's all, that's what we keep hearing on the airways. but it's really about energy here and not fossil fuel energy. it's all about green energy. and ukraine is being used as a segue to push the transition. this is something that, you know, this is

a gleeful about it. they're gleeful about because they, they don't have to bring it to their people and vote on it the way it is. because you know, rules based order and all of this type of stuff here. but at the same time, and this is what i need to explain, they're opening up whole mines again and are, well, main natural gas maybe isn't so dirty here. i mean, what are their priorities here? because if they, on the one hand, you know, it's, you know, territorial integrity. on the other hand, it's agree new deal. but they keep interweaving and clashing with each other and they can't make up their mind. what is their priority? uh huh. well, i have, i would say not the privilege but the duty to read the warning german press. i'm just read it so we don't have to. thank you this side. you know, they the right that 62 percent of the guns for the guns advice and now the work themselves a few times a week and a for alissa. ok. 162 percent of people already believe this

and you know, the way the government is dealing with people in germany like, you have to read, you know that the temperature in your bathroom, you have to watch read. i mean, these people, it was a russian channel there yet, but we know what he told you the difference between all sort of darion and it's a shame say ok, don't publish every day just on the president. i just want to do this insane. how else of what your cells, which theatre waste, you could go to which books you should read, you know how with educate your children. so in this situation, during our walks su with terence, they tell their people calling to wash. what is wood for their house? there is a very, very strange theory. now that washing better often makes is bad. right?

and it's just the plain and the problem with their in states is that they use ideology against math against mathematics. i mean in gear force, which is a huge or very what management model their best interest of gov bush time, all the handle on the he just gave a mathematical analysis or what's going on that germany has 14 medium households. 20000000 of them are heated by a guest. rational gas, it calls for 55 percent. how are we going to do without ok? so this is a mathematical question. then i know what it will answer. what ran it. worse for short periods of time, you know, don't use your car, don't use your i don't know. what else go microwave. well, i mean, it smacks all the sudden even worse. well, i mean it, george. i mean a,

is this going back to the 1840s? i mean, i'm, i'm, i'm trying to understand what's going on in the world is a super competitive police. but, and then we look at the europeans, you know, i mean, what, what is it, you know, pragmatism isn't ideology. can they marry the 2? it seems that they, they're, they're, they're, they're pushing things that are just diametrically opposed to each other, and the result is cold and lack of productivity and, you know, the world passes them by a, some kind of backwater. and this is all done intentionally good. yes, it's a short rate that there's been this seamless transition from lee cove is area now to the energy steering. i mean, it's just you, you don't even notice it. so we was screaming at the anti back says the non mosque, whereas the people who are protesting against the lock down, you know, they were with them because they refused to express social solidarity. they were

entirely selfish, and we were supposed to hate them. so now we're rapidly going to be moving into a new era with those who don't want to share out the energy. i mean, i'm going to be really in the process. you know, they don't want to share out the gas and that they can design their own deals with russia. and so this is now everyone who is going to be taking showers of a to long, you know, that they are going to be the is, i guess that's a new thing. shower shaming is that, i mean, exactly all people, you know, what they cost, you know, more than once a month. so if you ever, now it's only going to be a fall in be insufficiently for expressing solidarity and of course, will be put in this. this isn't the how the, you know, this as the, the said, this kind of a j as well. no one ever really know

the parent was going to say no one really kind of a you know, to the, from the mental questions about i go with no one else. the fundamental question to one end is all this. why are we making the sacrifice? no, you just don't get a shop and just get with the program or else you know we're going to punish you. and so anyway, give me a mindful thinking shot too long in the shower. we had 0 with 0 cove and now we have 0 fossil fuel. ok, niema. let me go to you. i mean, usually when these unusual and very strident demands of people, it's during a momentary crisis. ok moment. so you know, what i mean by that is that, you know, when the crisis will come to an end and you go back to, this is completely open ended. ok, you start saving 15. if you're told to say 15 percent on energy towards what end. i mean it will that make the situation better? how alleviated they don't have any answers. there's no,

there's no exit from this. it just seems it's going to be cumulative. they're going never 40 percent, then 60 percent and the results will be the same. i don't understand what, what they're driving at what their goal is. go ahead logical this. i'm sorry if you go to any findings, right? something like this. oh, our people are paid by about 90 percent celsius. inside the ohms least we, while people with russia have been through so many difficult is much more like sustainable. so, i mean, this is difficult that they get in. the amy is so strong and you need to make any sacrifices. that means that you should be making sacrifices. ok, 50 percent less. today's 20 percent less moral. don't ask why?

well, if you ask us why? because you know, if you ask us, why did we support your greenwich, the whole being in 2014? don't expect us from all these other people. you know, we have c, please, this change. so we're not responsible with these people. did they take their pants off? i mean, they're all, they're all nice, nice, nice groups. you know, i don't ask any questions, you know, view off. and also what is very important if you always require prices. and 2nd at that, that it is, you always intimidate, you will all die for point. there will be an alignment. if you don't listen to us and if you don't work with all the water line, it will go apps, you know. so basically let me remind you of how people are basically broaden

germans in to what you said that we have not enough space, not enough. let us wrong, if we don't expand into years, we're all going to die. and that was a lie because germans on a much smaller energy, also that will to create that sustainable economy, which is not going to get them. but a segue is perfectly did the last question i have for george here. you're right. we have the german economic miracle because there was cheap soviet then that later russian gas. so, george, you know, on a global scale here, the global south is saying, you know, the europeans got really rich because they had access to very cheap fossil fuels, primarily oil and gas. so now they're looking, they're stepping up your plate, say, our turn we would like that energy to do exactly what the europeans had and what they are they willing to give up, but we'll make it stand in line. we'll take it. that's exactly what's happening.

yes, yes, but the strange thing is that the europeans and the extent the americans are weighted to a ology that is propagated by the world economic forum and, and ever. and it's not entirely clear what the all is other than they want to reduce the population of the world. i mean, that's their agenda and green energy, somehow. those in with that agenda, the, you know, as was the, the fear of pandemic. and of course, you know, aid people having children or anything like that. so it kind of, it's a part of the same things. are they using this crisis of ukraine, essentially to use the problem, you're going to move to the renewable. they don't, they? well, there is no way in the world that germany can continue to be an economic out relying on solar panels and,

and when they're pushing it. and you have to think that based on how don't want europe and the united states to be kind of the engine will grow. i mean, they want to continue to be prosperous themselves. they don't really want to extend this prosperity. they do it. it seems, you know, if the europeans want to set an example, but the world that's something that we see here and, you know, eventually, you know, they'll be carbon chaining in this country uses do much higher than that. that will be, you know, it will be another reason for nato or to be all they think they're ready to be. ok, but i mean, but it doesn't work logically because then they become less competitive. they become already come more irrelevant. and so everyone, the learning i think that will be don't do what drives you with the grow. go ahead the last 30 seconds. well 1st, wanting to figure magazines already started all in europe, extremist,

all the groups, not only about which are concerned about it, but also about energy crisis. so where all extreme is now people out and there was one person who said that basically by this policy, europe is destroyed, you will be in maine, capitalism. therefore you bore extension that i'm just getting him. so i look and i'm not saying that all my own, but as i said it will be megan, this is all field. this is all, seem to back these old conspiracy theories. pretty well law it will have as well, and you're at least in the winter coming i will have cold capitalism. ok. see how that feels? ok, go out. ok. i'm watching themselves a, digging further in to their problems. it's extraordinary to witness gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in budapest and here in my i want to thank our viewers from watching us. here are the, remember across top roles. ah,

ah, a with, with both both the models you need to do both with a, a, a, a, a, a,

with a personal number here. we go to with ah

a ah, it's a fur know to blackmail when it comes to foreign affairs. that's the message from russia and the republic of the congo after talks between the countries top diplomats with the yellow robes african fall in full swing. bucket study business community is keen to develop trade relations with russia. that's as the president of the pakistan business forum notes, the attractiveness of the russian markets for the countries export and restricting the flow russian energy giant gas drum says it's taking another gas turbine offline . the maintenance coating already reduced the flow of.