now she did, they were really not young at the snow and it just said that got another bus and deal this wouldn't have happened if indeed vida didn't push this agenda. this was because i'm the boss on the city to what about a it's not a good one of the student isn't up there, but it's okay. it was filmed. it was in december. ah ah

hello and welcome to cross hog were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle when you're losing a battle with little or any possibility of victory, that's when you should start to think about ending the conflict. but this is not the case in ukraine today. the longer the conflict last, the worse it is free, kim. he would seem that is washington's plan with cross 2nd ukraine. i'm joined by my gets carlin nixon in washington. he's a political analyst in raleigh. we have re, mcgovern, he's a former cia analyst, and in toronto, we cross alessandra, bruno, he's an independent political analyst, or a gentleman, crosses, rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate re let me go to you 1st in raleigh. on that a month after month is conflict goes on, more and more weapons are being sent more and more money is being sent. there seems to be political. chaos in care of with zalinski is inner circle. in some parts of

the country, every one is suspected as being a russian spy. and there has not been one major, even minor victory for the ukrainians. and all of this, the country is getting smaller and smaller. the foreign ministry here is made it clear the more long range weapons that are sent to ukraine, the more land russia is going to have to say as it calls liberate. so is this washington's game plan? oh, and let me think died, almost forgot. a congressional delegation, bipartisan said, maybe we should send advisors. i think we've all heard that before. your thoughts re go ahead. well, how much time do i have with you? i think. i think the there were 3 major events last week, one of which you mention, and that is course heavy left off the russian foreign minister said look at things have substantially changed. it has to do with geography.

we're now was limited our horizon to don't boss the near it's can go guns. we already ends up or show on a, in other parts of more western ukraine. and we're going to have to move our forward line still farther to the north and to the south. and to the east. i mean who, who asked? so what was he saying? he said, that's a wider war now. and he explains explicitly mentioning hi marsh, the high mobility or chill re rocket system or that the ukrainians are bragging about, that the u. s. has given them range of 50 miles mind you can do a lot of damage. so what's the reaction in washington? that same day or defense minister go up and said wall our hi, marsha, working all does, the ukrainian leadership is happy about that and beller,

they know how to work on now. hello, hear it. you're russia just up the ante and said, look, this is a wider war. we're going to go as we have to, to get out of your high mars range. and the defense secretary is kind of what resigned to the fact us that'd be a wider war, which raises the question of course, is that what the defense secretary? once he has already said that his aim or you are shame is to weaken russia? is that what this is all about to the last ukrainian has ukraine will be a test field for us weaponry. it appears that that's the case, at least until the mid term elections in november. well, let's go to our guests in toronto. i mean, this is an unconscionable position to take, i mean, fighting the russians to the last ukranian because i have been saying ever since the qu, in february of 2014, is it the more the west, the helps ukraine,

the smaller the country gets? i'm being proven right every single day. go ahead in toronto. hello. yes. yes, thank you peter. i'm, well, i mean the, the situation is very clear and i think this is, this must be part of the goal in washington and european capitals because obviously they don't really care about ukraine if they did, they would have stopped this war from happening before it ever started and, and in fact, the opportunities for doing so were numerous starting from a, i mean the whole entire situation that started in 2014 was the setup. in fact, i think one of the reasons why the democrats were so upset that they lost the 2016 election was perhaps that they had this operation into plans already in 2016. and that was the end goal because of course victoria newland was part of the

obama team and she was famously in t as in 2014. so i think the, the, the go from the also from the european perspective. what on earth are they doing for going along with this strategy when it is shooting on their own feet? and this was so clear, i struggle to understand still today what advantages europe is gaining from the continuation of this war. and we, it's clear that the more that the war continues and the more weapons that gets ukraine and the more they fight back, in this sense, the russians will have to expand their line because that gives them something to negotiate with. and of course, the government keith is going to, i think, is going to stay there. i don't think the russians have any plans to take over here

because they need the negotiating partner. but they're going to extend that line constantly to get your playing chess when you play, you, you? well, i'm sorry. who? i mean i, i think the, the u. s. is playing checkers. i think the russians are playing chess here. garland, let me go to you here. i want, obviously, what a young tenant consequences is the dramatic impact on the global economy. i mean, you know, article after article will europe freeze in the winter, you know, you know, will be um, bare shelves. i mean, this was this part of the plan. i don't think so, this is the law of unintended consequences for ukraine and it's not even democracy is they say it's a military junta. go ahead. garland of a couple of things. i think number one, based on the history of the neocons and how many lives the needlessly wasted. i don't think they're concerned with unintended consequences of starvation or things like that around the world. that's not a concern of theirs. they could care less, they just see all of those lives as collateral. damage to ultimately achieve their,

you know, hedge a monic goals as far as europe. i would disagree with you that that's an unintended consequence on john bolton said or year to go in his book that the, the neo cons in washington, particularly in trump, administration viewed the e u as a, a tremendous economic threat. second only to china. sure. so i think the plan was to take out rushes economy and take out the used car economy and they're not taking out rushes economy, but i think they'll be happy to at least get what they won't. they won't be happy that they didn't get russia, but they will be happy that they subjugated the you and put them in their place and eliminated an industrial and financial corporate. well, i guess so much for western solidarity. ok, ray, would you want to react to that? because that's it, that's a very good point because there the, the, the washington is one in the senate has been able to corral europe. i mean, even against its own best interest,

european interest here. they've won there. but i always think, i tend to think it is a, a pirate victory. if you have a, an economy in a, a continental economy that is not productive and competitive. what, what kind of trophy is that go ahead re your, i think your one has to always make room for stupidity. i agree. now also exceptionalism nice toxic to mix. if you think you're exceptional, and you're also not very smart, you may be have academic credentials, but it's not very smart. then you have the kind of economic good viruses that are just as, as shippers, as is foreign policy advisers. now these are a lead people who don't know anything about the world. and what economic advisors would have advised these sanctions knowing that russia has oil and gas, it's beyond is beyond belief that they would have persuaded biting to do this. but

they did. so i'm not sure everything was quite intended the way it was, but those of garland is completely right. that is the result. and as winter approaches, the hungarians, and many more than on gary. and as i come, i gotta say this is, this is a, this is a crock. this is crazy. let's make a deal with the russian before it's too late. before 0, before we all for each to alessandra and in toronto, i, i'm sure you've come across it as i have. and so for the last few months, coming out of here, we have to stop taking russian energy. we must stop, we must stop. and then in the same breath, but they might turn it off. i mean, this is good. so friendly it's, it's bizarre to watch them at these con, fab's g 7, you know, madrid, nato, you know, we have to wean ourselves off, but they might turn it off. i mean, it's, it's like talking to a child, go ahead in toronto. well, it's worse in talking to a child,

and i actually have been following this aspect considerably. and every day i look at the, the press throughout europe and worldwide. and in fact, it is exactly a skit. so frantic situation, 1st, they complain about russian energy and the fact that they supply all of the energy and that they must cut themselves off from russia. and in fact, that was part of the ideological drive for germany to participate. they are green, foreign minister, and elaine of better bach. i don't know her credentials are not particularly good, but she's one of the big drivers. there is a big green ideology behind all of this. yep. and there plan. i think she actually at the beginning a, she actually it the praise the fact that russia was going to cut off gas forcing germany to increase investment in so called clean energy. and of course, clean energy requires gas to work because you know,

you filling the gaps of wind turbines and sort of panels with guess. and now i see a change of to even an alina burbock is complaining about russia, cutting off the gas supply because of them. well, the reason we've been given is maintenance and, and the delays with the turbine, the siemens turban that was being maintained in canada. but i believe has been shipped. so now there's another turbine that needs maintenance, and now they're panicking. and of course, one of the reasons for the panic is that some of the governments in europe are starting to fall. we've seen the, the train of demise, you know, the raggy micro and schultz went to key if a few weeks ago in a train. and now one of those 2 is out. yep. added to her. she'll have to jump in here. we're going to go, go to it, go to a short break about about short break. we'll continue our discussion on ukraine.

say with ah ah ah, with a shriek mister, can just look up some of novels, only

a muscle is running noon. she, judy doesn't being an exemption on a nurse to me as place you. mamma, coquettish, sit katie, suddenly tim catherine to his ashley of dc, wondered what the duplicate pieces goes down to the wonder do thief. but of course, jason did deleted you, but not, not looking for the chain of crimes to network for phones that ride subsidy luca one week out of that with great lisa. ah, welcome back. across fact, were all things considered? i'm peter about your mind. you were discussing you crate. ah. okay, let's go back to garland in the swamp in washington dc. i'm, you know,

i'm re pointed out in the beginning of the program, rushes of basic war aims, guam ame sam, for the conflict and, and i agree with grade that has changed because western strategy has changed as well. but, you know, garland the way i look at it here is that if someone was saying to me a few weeks ago, peter, what's a win win situation here? and i said there is no win win. there's a win lose. that's very simple right now. and the outcome of this war, it will be, it will be under russia's terms and russians timetable. what did they get to do? sanction russia, they've emptied out the tool box. they don't have much left. a can do whole, we get a sanction your gold now. wow. they're really digging deep. ok, so, i mean, that's why i find washington to be such a curious process. there is that there's no way that ukraine is going to win. and so, and the russians in juxtaposition cannot possibly lose. they wouldn't have started

this thing if they knew that unless i knew they were going to win. so this is where the log jam is. go ahead, garland, i think what we're looking at was washington, is all it's ever been a narrative war. i mean from the very beginning, if you look at the way i'm president zalinski came in, i mean, he came in as a, as a t v show star. and at a, a, basically there was a party that was named literally named after his t v show. so he's been playing a role the whole time. he surrounded himself with people who were involved in the entertainment industry and the entire time that this conflict has been going on. the focus of washington has been narrative control and you know, politics and narrative control. and the problem, i think they're, there, they're looking at very soon, is that there will be able to control the narrative in europe. but as the people of europe are returned to the hunter gatherer on time, in prehistoric history,

i don't think they're going to be very happy about it. and there have been some questions. could this be like serrato or i lanka for longer? will people be wandering through the presidential palace and you know, swimming in the pool? i think there is a, even, maybe even a probability that it could get are worse in europe. because the people in europe are accustomed to a very high standard of living a they've had a long ways to fall in signing or they hit the ground. they're gonna tear that place. lim from live re. you've worked in government a long time. you're retired now, of course, i mean, how far will washington go to get its way in ukraine when it won't get its way? give us a prognosis if you will. the problem is here that the mid term election is coming up in just a couple of months in november. now i agree that the russian military advance seems to be inexorable right now. it's going to get really bad by october

and november. so what will the us be tempted to do so as not to look week in before the russian threat? now we talk about the democrats who are really in danger of losing both houses of congress. so this is a big deal. okay. well, they do well, they'll be tough to give still longer range. missiles, the ones that even patrick, what's his name? the assistant to the president for national security affairs, said ro, even even now, and i've been again days longer range, missiles that cannot cause that bridge between premier and russia proper. okay. well, you know, maybe they'll be tempted to do that then and we'll have a wider war. but the thing i fear most is what a lot for us just a week ago. a very unusual article call and on

a plan stage is the word you use a staged false flag or that it could be a murder of. so then ski that's well prepared, run out blamed on russia. there could be the, the favored, the, the favorite color flag attack of choice, chemical weapons, whatever. however, there is luck, jews to be used by the russians and worse still, russia and many other places the crane have nuclear sites. they could be sabotaged and again blamed on russia where that would lead. i really hate to fathom because this is a existential threat only in the political sense. does it credit for it? it's, it's, it's, it's, it's quite sickening that has to get down to domestic politics who's going to win and who's going to lose that whole countries. the whole continents are at stake here. how sandra in and toronto, it's, it's, it's continue with what ray had to say of all, you know,

i've been saying this from the very beginning, these false flags. we've already had a number of them. they're all been duds. so they'll probably up the anti. but that's not going to change a rushes behavior on the battlefield. and that's another miscalculation in washington. you can, it is garland put another they all they have is propaganda. all they have is spreadsheets and videos and stuff like that. they don't they, they can't win on the battlefield and they know it. so it worked for me is that they'll throw everything they can at it with this. this thing about pilot did recruiting pilots, the steel plains and things like bella, cat, the, they're in the game again. but it's not going to deter russian. that's what's really sad about it because we had an opportunity, a month in it. it is them bull to somehow come to have a ceasefire or some kind of coming to terms. but the west is determined not to let that happen. and that's why i'm assuming that zalinski has no agency whatsoever. as garland is pointed out, he's an actor and all of this go ahead in toronto. well,

i mean the, i actually watched a few episodes of the show in which the 9th he was the actor. i think he's speaking russian in the l, which very interesting. he's a russian speaker, and i think his intentions on upon coming in to power were genuine in as far as pushing for some kind of a piece and the following through on the minsk agreements, which of course, the entire war is about the midst minutes agreements. because the war started in 2014 and those agreements were the tool to end it. and now we have the advanced is the extension of that. the diplomacy to put it in a glass of its terms. i'm but i'm afraid of the false flag events because to me the, the test or shall we say the test run for this war. it was syria there where you had a number of false flag attacks starting from 2013. and by the way,

naively i was speaking to the u. s. military, a conference about syria in 2013. and i remember saying to the not understanding what the plan was for syria. i pointed to a map when i said, you know, don't bother with syria, don't get involved because the russians are going to handle it. look at the map, syria is only 1000 kilometers, right? south of russia and their ethnic relations as well, dissertations. and was there, so don't get involved and i was looked at very strangely by everyone present or because of course, that was the goal is to increase the, the chances and opportunities for western involvement, which is what i fear in ukraine. and i think the, the way to stop it apart from the congressional elections. hopefully some something will come out is europe. that's the last hope we are seeing governments and i agree . oh my god, who will europe is our last. you heard it here on cross sock,

oh my goodness. with was sorry with sergeant schultz in berlin. that's our grain. last, you know, liz, you know, they know they're pushing there. they know that they're stopping on their own feet . it's about time that european voters and citizens start rebelling if that happens, at least we start to see some erosion in the coalition and, and also, and i feel sorry for the people of ukraine that have to suffer. absolutely, absolutely. yeah, absolutely not your fault. you know, it got garland, you know, one of the things i, i think i need to every once in a while and kind of get to the big, big picture of all of this here. why did this all start? because rushes security, your security needs were being ignored, scoffed at ok. and the russian said, don't test out, don't push as and they did. and this is what we have here. this conflict is going to come in to an end. when rushes security goals have been met. that's what this is

all about. and when that when they say we, we, we've gotten what we've wanted from this and it's over and they don't need zelinski signature or any kind of any kind of outcome that lindsey is going to get on an airplane. if he's lucky to fly out because the inner circle people around him are they use him as a puppet. ok? and most, some of these people have the most odious ideology and you know what i'm talking about? go ahead. garland. well, i would agree with you and your, your implication in that zalinski will be very fortunate if he walks out of this one, you know, unscathed, shall we say, i'll just leave it at that. because i think what ultimately happens. and this is the problem that the neocons are going to have the need at least a semblance of a governing body. um for ukraine in order to argue that there's some legitimacy, the way things are going, i would predict a sudden collapse of some type, either a sudden collapse of the military of political collapse, some type of a qu, etc,

is going to happen maybe after the don boss, ah, you know, the eastern ukrainian or military part of the, of this particular conflict is over, but at some point there's going to be some kind of collapse and it's going to be very difficult for the west to a, you know, depending on who wins in the far right wins. well you certainly can't work with him or bargain with them and they will embarrass. i think they've been working with them since 2014. they're very comfortable with these ultra nationalists and neo nazis. they know who they are. re, we have one minute left. i'm going to give it to you. your thoughts police there heard me say before. nobody mentions china. now, this week, the chinese foreign ministry spokesman gave the strongest endorsement of what russia is doing than ever before. he said, luck, you west u. u. s. u, you started it, you inflamed it, you're trying to create a 3rd world war. you gotta stop it by facilitating negotiations. in addition,

iran, it's foreign minister himself said look, we appreciate and weeks of court, russian name senior crane. this is a big deal, whether the u. s. thinks it can win in ukraine or not. the world is dow divided between a lily white west and the rest of the world. most of all piece of most of them are people of color, china, india, pakistan, and iran. and of course russia, it's a bipolar world again. and we're on the short end of the stick. thanks, jake sullivan. thanks anthony blank. and he really done a bang up job. okay. divided the world and a good part of the world no longer likes or dis, respects the united states as a result, that's all the time we have gentlemen. i want to thank my guest and watch it in raleigh and in toronto. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember crosstalk with

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public? if the number is big enough for me, he says i'd put him in some bush and below that season. now she did the work for really not to them or seen of young at the did. there's no way it was it just had like, i don't, i don't bus and deal. this wouldn't not have happened if need invite and didn't push this agenda. this war because i'm here this city to what about a get one of the student going up at the moment. this is just put us okay. to film the thing with temperament. ah

ah no. as the orchestra wagner, with politicians to describe minutes with a general awake at night or t gets an exclusive chance to join the russian private military company. the wagner group, partly taking part in operations, the new frame prepared for the worst this winter europe commit to a 15 percent cut and gas consumption until next spring on a voluntary basis with numerous exemptions to the energy saving plan. also had a.