i personally don't think that these proposals are still in the air are still valid, but anyhow, i think i did just about the time that the sanctions be revoked and start serious negotiations with moscow instead of dealing with international with murderers. while amid sanctions on russia that have led to energy shortages in europe, how strong do you think the use bet on saudi arabia is in replacing russian oil trying trying to do everything possible to do that. but there is a moral issue here. and if the european union starts dealing with murderers, there'll be no end to how low it can get. and this does not help the unity of the european union. and many people in

greece and in europe, the find to find this act as a shameful act. and it's not going to help much so, so that's my point of view because these agreements that have been signed, for example, one that will connect electricity from saudi arabia to greece. this did not happen overnight. it will take quite a long time. and i don't think that this is the solution to it, to resolve the energy crisis that europe itself has created, or as, as created by putting the sanctions on russia. the best solution would be to that. so the west starts serious discussion with russia to end those ukraine crisis. and the only way to do that is by doing away with the sanctions. and if the sanctions are done away, then the energy prices,

the energy crisis of europe is automatically soft. our former greek diplomat, an ambassador lea, a night as chris and topple, as thanks a lot for joining us on the program. more news coming your way and just about 30 min with when i would think wrong when i just don't with an engagement with so many find themselves well the part we use to look for common ground ah

ah hello and welcome to cross top. were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle. when you're losing a battle with little or any possibility of victory, that's when you should start to think about ending the conflict. but this is not the case in ukraine today. the longer the conflict last, the worse it is free, kim. he would seem that is washington's plan with cross 2nd ukraine. i'm joined by my gets carlin nixon in washington. he's a political analyst in raleigh. we have ray mcgovern. he is a former cia analyst. and in toronto, we cross alessandra, bruno, he's an independent political analyst or a gentleman, cross act rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate re let me go to you 1st in raleigh. on that

a month after month is conflict. goes on, more and more weapons are being sent more and more money is being sent. there seems to be political. chaos in care of with zalinski is inner circle. in some parts of the country, every one is suspected as being a russian spy. and there has not been one major, even minor victory for the ukrainians. and all of this, the country is getting smaller and smaller. the foreign ministry here is made it clear the more long range weapons that are sent to ukraine, the more land russia is going to have to say as it calls liberate. so is this washington's game plan? oh it, let me think that almost forgot a congressional delegation bipartisan. so maybe we should send advisors. i think we've all heard that before. your thoughts re go ahead. well, how much time do i have with the i think, i think the there were 3 major events last week, one of which you mention,

and that is course a city level off the russian foreign minister said look at things have substantially changed. it has to do with key are graphy. we're now was limited our horizon to don't boss than it's going to go guns. are we already ends up on a washer and a in other parts of more western ukraine. and we're gonna have to move our forward line still farther to the north and to the south and to the east. i mean who, who us? so what was he saying? he said, that's a wider war now. and he explains explicitly mentioning hi marsh, the high mobility or chill re rocket system that the ukrainians are bragging about, that the u. s. has given them range of 50 miles mind, you can do a lot of damage. so what's the reaction in washington?

that same day or defense minister go up and said, wal, our hi, marsha, working all does the ukraine leadership is happy about that and beller, they know how to work on now. hello, hear it. the rush is just up the ante and said, look, this is a wider war. we're going to go as far as we have to, to get out of your high mars range. and the defense secretary is kind of what resigned to the fact us, that'd be a wider war, which raises the question of course, is that what the defense secretary? once he has already said that his aim or usa is to weaken russia? is that what this is all about to the last ukrainian has ukraine will be a test field for us weaponry. it appears that that's the case, at least until the mid term elections in november. well,

let's go to our guests in toronto. i mean, this is an unconscionable position to take amine fighting the russians to the last ukranian because i have been saying ever since the qu, in february of 2014, is it the more the west, the helps ukraine, the smaller the country gets? i'm being proven right every single day. go ahead in toronto. hello, i am. yes, thank you peter. i'm, well, i mean the, the situation is very clear and i think this is, this must be part of the goal in washington and european capitals because obviously they don't really care about ukraine if they did, they would have stopped this war from happening before it ever started and, and in fact, the opportunities for doing so were numerous starting from i mean, the whole, the entire situation that started in 2014 was the set up. in fact, i think one of the reasons why the democrats were so upset that they lost the 2016

election was perhaps that they had this operation into plans already in 2016. and that was the end goal because of course victoria newland was part of the obama team and she was famously in t as in 2014. so i think the, the, the go from the also from the european perspective. what on earth are they doing for going along with this strategy when it is shooting on their own feet? and this was so clear, i struggle to understand still today what advantages europe is gaining from the continuation of this war. and we, it's clear that the more that the war continues and more weapons that gets ukraine, and the more that they fight back, in this sense, the russians will have to expand their line. because that gives them something to

negotiate with. and of course, the government and keith is going to, i think, is going to stay there. i don't think the russians have any plans to take over here because they need the negotiating partner. but they're going to extend that line constantly. if you're playing chess, when you play, you, you, you, well, i'm sorry. who, i mean i, i think the, the u. s. is playing checkers. i think the russians are playing chess here. i garland, let me go to you here. i what obviously, what do you understand in consequences is the, the dramatic impact on the global economy. i mean, you know, article after article will europe freeze in the winter, you know, you know, will be, um, bare shelves. i mean, this was this part of the plan. i don't think so. this is the law of unintended consequences for ukraine. and it's not even democracy as they say, it's a military junta. go ahead. garland. well, a couple of things. i think number one, based on the history of the neocons and how many lives they needlessly wasted. i

don't think they're concerned with unintended consequences of starvation or things like that around the world. that's not a concern of theirs. they could care less, they just see all of those lives as collateral. damage to ultimately achieve their, you know, hedge a monic goals as far as europe. i would disagree with you that that's an unintended consequence on john bolton said or year to go in his book that the neocons in washington, particularly in the trumpet ministration viewed the e u as a, a tremendous economic threat. second only to china. sure. so i think the plan was to take out rushes economy and take out the used car economy and they're not taking out rushes economy, but i think they'll be happy to at least get well they won't, they won't be happy that they didn't get russia, but they will be happy that they subjugated the you and put them in their place and eliminated an industrial and financial compared. well, i guess so much for western solidarity. ok ray, would you want to react to that?

because that's it. that's a very good point because there the, the, the washington is one in the senate has been able to corral europe, i mean, even against its own best interest, european interest here. they've won there. but i, i always think i tend to think it is a, a pirate victory. if you have a, an economy in a continental economy that is not productive and competitive. what, what kind of trophy is that go ahead re, you know, i think your one has to always make room for stupidity. great. now also exceptionalism, nicer toxic mix. if you think you're exceptional and you're also not very smart, you may be have academic credentials, but it's not very smart. then you have the kind of economic viruses that are just as, as stupid as his foreign policy advisors. now these are

a lead people who don't know anything about the world. and what economic advisors would have advised these sanctions knowing that russia has oil and gas, it's beyond is beyond belief that they would have persuaded biting to do this. but they did. so i'm not sure everything was quite intended the way it was, but those that garland is completely right. that is the result. and as winter approaches, the hungarians, and many more than on gary. and as i come, i gotta say this is, this is a, this is a crock. this is crazy. let's make a deal with the russians before it's too late. before 0, before we are free said alice andrea and in toronto, i'm sure you've come across it as i have. and so for the last few months, coming out of europe, we have to stop taking russian energy. we must stop, we must stop. and then in the same breath, but they might turn it off. i mean, this is get so friendly. it's just bizarre to watch them at these con fab's, a g 7,

you know, and madrid, nato. you know, we have to wean ourselves off, but they might turn it off. i mean it's, it's like talking to a child, go ahead in toronto. well, it's worse than talking to a child, and i actually have been falling this aspect considerably. and every day i look at the, the price throughout europe and worldwide. and in fact, it is exactly a skid. so frantic situation, 1st, they complain about russian energy and the fact that they supply all the energy and that they must cut themselves off from russia. and the fact that was part of the ideological drive for germany to participate. they are green for foreign minister. and elaine, of better bach, i don't know her credentials are not particularly good, but she's one of the big drivers. there's a big green ideology behind all of this. yep. and there plan, i think she actually at the beginning a, she actually it the praise the fact that russia was going to cut off gas forcing

germany to increase investment in so called clean energy. and of course, clean energy requires gas to work because you know, you fill in the gaps of wind turbines and sort of panels with guess. and now i see a change of to even angelina burbock is complaining about russia cutting off the gas supply because of them. well, the reason we've been given is maintenance and the, and the delays with the turbine, the siemens turban that was being maintained in canada. but i believe has been chipped. so now there's another turbine that needs maintenance, and now they're panicking. and of course, one of the reasons for the panic is that some of the governments in europe are starting to fall. we've seen the train of demise. you know, the rocky micro and schultz went to key if

a few weeks ago in a train. and now one of those 2 is out. yep. and to her, she'd have to jump in here. we're going to go to it, go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine say with ah ah, ah,

welcome back across stock, were all things considered? i'm peter roosevelt remind you. we're discussing ukraine. ah ok, let's go back to garland in the swamp in washington dc. i'm, you know, i'm re pointed out in the beginning of the program rushes of basic war aims ago. it was aimed sam for the conflict and, and i agree with grade that has changed because western strategy has changed as well. but, you know, garlan, the way i look at it here is that if someone was saying to me a few weeks ago, peter, what's a win win situation here? and i said there is no win win. there's a win lose. that's very simple right now. and the outcome of this war, it will be, it will be under russia's terms and rushes timetable. what are they gonna do? sanction russia, they've emptied out the tool box. they don't have much left. they can do what we

get a sanction your gold now. wow. they're really digging deep. ok, so, i mean, that's why i find washington to be such a curious process. there is that there's no way that ukraine is going to win. and so, and the russians injects to position, cannot possibly lose. they wouldn't have started this thing if they knew that unless i knew they were going to win. so this is where the log jam is. go ahead, garland, i think what we're looking at was washington, is all it's ever been a narrative. we're, i mean from the very beginning, if you look at the way i'm president zalinski came in, i mean, he came in as a, as a t v show star. and at a, a, basically there was a party that was named literally named after his t v. show so he's been playing a role the whole time. he surrounded himself with people who were involved in the entertainment industry and the entire time that this conflict has been going on. the focus of washington has been narrative control and you know,

politics and narrative control. and the problem, i think they're there, they're looking at very soon, is that there will be able to control the narrative in europe. but as the people of europe are returned to the hunter gatherer on time in priest or history, i don't think they're going to be very happy about it. and there have been some questions. could this be like so? right, so i lank ups for longer will people be wandering through the presidential palace and you know, swimming in the pool. i think there is a, even, maybe even a probability that it could get are worse in europe. because the people in europe are accustomed to a very high standard of living a they've had a long ways to fall inside when they hit the ground, they're gonna tear that place live from live re, you've worked in government a long time, you're retired. now, of course, i mean, how far will washington go to get its way in ukraine when it won't get its way? give us a prognosis if you will. the problem is peter,

that the mid term elections are coming up in just a couple of months in november. now i agree. the russian military advance seems to be inexorable. right now. it's going to get really bad by october and november. so what will the us be tempted to do so as not to look week in before the russian threat? now we talk about the democrats who are really in danger of losing both houses of congress. so this is a big deal. okay. well, they do well, they'll be tempted to give still longer range missiles, the ones that even patrick, what's his name? the assistant to the precedent for national security affairs. a several, even even now we're not going to give them the longer range missiles that cannot cross that bridge between premier and russia proper. okay. well, you know,

maybe they'll be tempted to do that then and we'll have a wider war. but the thing i fear most is what set up just a week ago, a very unusual article call and on a plan stage is the word you use a staged false flag or that it could be a murder or so then sky. that's well prepared right now. blamed on russia, there could be the, the favored, the, the favor calls flag, attack of choice, chemical weapons, whatever. however, there is luck, jews to be used by the russians and worse still, washer. and many other places the crane have nuclear sites. they could be sabotaged and again blamed on russia where that would lead. i really hate to fathom because this has a existential threat only in the political sense,

the democratic party. it's quite sickening that has to get down to domestic politics, who's going to win and who's going to lose that whole country's whole continents are at stake. how sandra in, in, in toronto, it's, it's, it's continue with what ray had to say. a thought, you know, i've been saying this from the very beginning, these false flags, we've already had a number of them. they're all been dads. so they'll probably up the anti. but that's not going to change a rushes behavior on the battlefield. and that's another miscalculation in washington. you can, it is a garland put another they all they have is propaganda. all they have is spreadsheets and videos and stuff like that. they don't, they, they can't win on the battlefield and they know it. so it work for me is that they'll throw everything they can at it with this, this thing about piloted recruiting pilots, the steel plains and things like bella, cat, you know, the, they're in the game again. but it's not going to deter russian. that's what's really sad about it because we had an opportunity a month in it. it is them bull to somehow come to have

a ceasefire or some kind of coming to terms. but the west is determined not to let that happen. and that's why i'm assuming that zalinski has no agency whatsoever, as garland is pointed out. he's an actor and all of this go ahead in toronto. well, i mean the, i actually watched a few episodes of the show in which zalinski was the actor. i think he's speaking russian in the l, which very interesting, he's a russian speaker. and i think his intentions on upon coming in to power were genuine in as far as pushing for some kind of a piece and the following through on the minsk agreement, which of course, the entire war is about the midst minutes agreements because the war started in 2014 and those agreements were the tool to end it. and now we have the advance is the extension of that. the diplomacy to put it in a glass of its terms. i'm but i'm afraid of the false flag events because to me the,

the test or shall we say the test run for this war. it was syria where you had a number of false flag attacks starting from 2013. and by the way, naively i was speaking to the u. s. military, a conference about syria in 2013. and i remember saying to the not understanding what the plan was for syria. i pointed to a map and i said, you know, don't bother with syria, don't get involved because the russians are going to handle it. look at the map, syria is only 1000 kilometers, right? south of russia and their ethnic relations as well. this or casey and was there. so don't get involved. and i was looked at very strangely by everyone present. or because of course, that was the goal is to increase the chances and opportunities for western involvement, which is what i fear in ukraine. and i think the,

the way to stop it apart from the congressional elections. hopefully some something will come out is europe. that's the last hope we are seeing governments and i agree . oh, my god, who will europe is our last you heard of here on cross sa go. my good with was sorry with sergeant schultz in berlin. that's our green last, you know, liz, you know though, they know they're pushing, they're there. they know that they're stopping on their own feet. it's about time that european voters and citizens start rebelling if that happens, at least we start to see some erosion in the coalition and, and also i'm, i feel sorry for the people of ukraine that have to suffer. absolutely. absolutely . yeah, absolutely not useful. you know, it got garland, you know, one of the things that i, i think i need to, every once in a while kind of get to the big, big picture of all of this here. why did this all start? because rushes security, your security needs were being ignored,

scoffed at ok. and the russian said, don't test out, don't push us and they did. and this is what we have here. this conflict is going to come in to an end. when russia's security goals have been met. that's what this is all about. and when that when they say we, we, we've gotten what we've wanted from this and it's over and they don't need zelinski signature or any kind of any kind of outcome. let's, he's going to get out an airplane. if he's lucky to fly out because the inner circle people around him are they use him as a puppet. ok. and most of these people have the most odious ideology and you know what i'm talking about? go ahead. garland. well, i'm, i would agree with you and your, your implication in that zalinski will be very fortunate. if he walks out of this one, you know, unscathed, shall we say, i'll just leave it at that. because i think what ultimately happens. and this is the problem that the neocons are going to have the need at least a semblance of

a governing body. um for ukraine in order to argue that there's some legitimacy, the way things are going, i would predict a sudden collapse of some type, either a sudden collapse of the military of political collapse, some type of a qu, etc, is going to happen maybe after the don boss, ah, you know, the eastern ukrainian military part of the, of this particular conflict is over, but at some point there's going to be some kind of collapse and it's going to be very difficult for the west to a, you know, depending on who wins in the far right wins. well you certainly can work with them or bargain with them and they will and barrow a lot of them. i think they've been working with them since 2014. they're very comfortable with these ultra nationalists and neo nazis. they know who they are, re, we have one minute left. i'm going to give it to you. your thoughts, please. there, heard me say before, nobody mentions china. now,

this week, the chinese foreign ministry spokesman gave the strongest endorsement of what russia is doing than ever before. he said, look, you west u. u. s u, you started it, you inflamed it, you're trying to create a 3rd world war. you gotta stop it by facilitating negotiations. in addition, iran, it's foreign minister himself said look, we appreciate and weeps of court. russian name senior crane. this is a big deal, whether you as think it can win in ukraine or not. the world is dow divided between a lily white west and the rest of the world. most of all piece of most of them are people of color. china, india, pakistan, and iran. and of course russia, it's a bipolar world again, and we're on the short end of the stick. thanks, jake sullivan. thanks, anthony blank and you've really done

a bang up job. okay. divided the world and a good part of the world. no longer likes or just respects the united states as a result, that's all the time we have gentlemen. i want to thank my guest and watch it in raleigh and in toronto. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here in our tea. see you next time. remember crosstalk with ah, napoleon with with you or is with you? i am with, oh,

a with a political chris got to boot from beach. i'm still here with this patient that's in the board with

with russia. foreign minister breaks down the reasons for the global food crisis says he stops by ethiopia during his tour of african countries rather due to the oh, absolutely. and that that was the reaction of the risk. which of those essentials, undermining the availability of food on the market, then known as the orchestra wagner. just as the musician, very, you know, the but the name itself is one that keeps western politicians. presidents. 5 minutes is a general awake at night. we get an exclusive look into the inner workings of a high profile russian private military agency during its class.