ah, no one else seemed wrong when old rules just don't hold any world that you have to shape out. disdain becomes the advocate and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. a spoke with with both both the models you need to do with

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hello and welcome to cross talk. were all things considered? i'm peter, about 5 months in the conflict in ukraine has turned into a vicious cycle of escalation encounter escalation, the more the west arms, the more ambitious moscow's battlefield aims become on top of this care of wants the west to essentially underwrite its entire military. and now economy. this is like pouring in. good money after bad. ah, cross tucking ukraine's future. i'm joined by my guess, negotiate mileage in washington. he's a blogger and calmness in new york. we have daniela's, our. he is

a journalist and author of 3 books on the u. s. constitution. and in mexico we cross to alex rubenstein. he is an investigative journalist. i gentleman cross our growth in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate the voice and let me go to you 1st in washington is reality slowly catching up to this propaganda effort to we've seen since the side of the conflict . i mean, you know, we have a president zalinski and his wife. they have time for vogue magazine, a shooting something that who is a can to war porn. zalinski wants, as the european union is cutting back dramatically on energy usage, the ukraine wants it free now. and we can go on and on. i've lost count how many billions of dollars and arms have been sent there, but it's not working. okay. the propaganda is there, but the reality is forcing people slowly but surely that this is a lost cause in a voice or go ahead. i don't think the west is quite there yet. i think they're still in the doubling down and denial stage that did the vogue photo shoot

especially was was it to me an act of desperation to, to try to get some attention back to the issue. but nothing is going to change. the fact that you crane is money peer to the more bottomless enough gamma stand for was and you know, say anniversary of that is coming up. and we all know how that ended. even though the same media who are flogging some sort of missive, ukrainian victory would love us to forget. and that was only a year ago. no, i mean, the reality is that the war is going very, the conflict is going very badly for ukraine and the west, and they're just not just refusing to admit it and try to play word games and pretend to talk to kids. well daniel, the ok just dump, telling us what we just heard from the bush. i mean, am i being too cynical to say that this is just the griffin because they want to keep it going on as long as they possibly can because they're not having any meaningful impact on the battlefield. so keep taking the money,

keep making demands, keep getting attention because it seems to me this entire upper part of the west, even though it is amazingly wasteful and corrupt. it's a means to keep something going. well, the going is good because the end is near and i don't know when near it, but that means maybe in august, september, october. i don't know, daniel, it's like one of those road runner cartoons the now where wiley coyote goes, that goes running off a cliff and any sort of pause the mid air, looks at the audience and gulps. and then finally plummets a 1000 feet to the canyon for floor below. i mean, it's beginning to sink in in washington that the war and the ukraine is not going well. the ukranian government is showing signs of instability . the war aims are not well defined. and meanwhile, the u. s. is blundering the into trouble in the,

in the taiwan straits. so things are not going well. and i think that realization is starting to think but the process, so the process of waking up is only just begun, but eventually it'll happen. yeah, well alex, you know, admitting that you are wrong is something these people have never been able to do. ok. i know bush before i go to alex you know, stilton berg was as well. what success has nato ever achieved? the former yugoslavia, they call that a success. okay. i'll alex, you know, and looking at public opinion polls, particularly in the u. k. in the united states, when people are asked what they're most concerned about in their not prompted ukraine never makes the cut ever ever makes the cut here. this is in elite project . ok? and that's why my 1st question, the bushes talking about what, when, when do they get wake up to reality? because the publics are not particularly interested in this and only up to the

point of inflation shortages then they understand go ahead, alex yo. i don't think that they'll ever wake up to reality even, even in the event of defeat, they'll find some sort of unreason unrealistic excuse as to why, why, why it's coming to an end. you know, like, like yugoslavia, you know, maybe nato also considers libya success, but i, you know, they still haven't formed a coherent government. i. the thing is, is that i, you know, you, the, this of the support for ukraine is, is i, it's, it's like a, it's a, it's a virtue signal it's, it's something that people can feel good about, but they are feeling the effects of it. and it's going to come back to bite them. you know, the u, the u. k. government is in shambles and there is going to be a, in my view, a republican take over in the united states. i come the mid terms because people

aren't willing to pay this so called putin price hike up for you know, for something which is meaningless to them. and, you know, it's, it's, it's harmful to city citizens, civilians in, in the u. k. all across europe, the united states, and especially the civilians of ukraine. you look at this attack that ukraine did just the other day on this bridge over that i, i'm not quite sure how to pronounce it, but that a d n i e p r river the night. but maybe you can correct me on that. ah, and they used us supplied he mars to take out that bridge. that bridge wasn't serving a military purpose. it was it. they said that trucks weren't going over it. it was too damaged for trucks. so it was just passenger vehicles of so there, you know, the u. s. is supplying destruction in ukraine and at the same time on destroying

themselves and what's the effect their, their, their strengthening rushes hand. so eventually a defeat will be admitted, but it won't be admitted honestly. and their boy, sammy, i've said many, many times in this program is that the more the west helps ukraine, the smaller it gets. well, that is as being proven true. um, and you know, the, the, the, the, the sad fact of the matter is, is that diplomacy has never been but seriously taken. and that we did have a con fab and it's been bull a month to the conflict. and then from what we understand from reporting, the u. k. j, boris johnson. squash that and tony blanket has no interest at all talking about somehow how to end this conflict. because i want to make it very clear to our viewers, the reckons will only talk to the americans about this. now they're not going to talk to anybody in europe because there's nobody worth talking to europe any more about it. it shows the lack of leadership there. they shed at any kind of responsibility that their citizens will go after them. sergeant schultz won't be

there for much longer, guaranteed. go ahead and washington abortion. well, the russians have tried negotiating with the europeans twice already when it comes to ukraine. date it was, there was the 2014 january 2014 power sharing agreement that was supposed to peacefully end the my don color revolution and the us backed and coordinated ukranian. nationalists simply ignored it and took power by force. and then those very same nationalist when they try to crush the rebellion in don, yes can, will ganske and premier by force and were defeated then again turned to france and germany to broker a ceasefire. and that was the infamous minced protocols. ringback disease fire, which again they proceed to completely ignore it. and what did the us do? it sabotaged these things that every step and the french and germans just went along with it and you know, mouth platitudes. so i don't blame the russians for saying that the french and german or germans are agreement incapable and they wish to speak to the manager,

which is in this case washington. the only question is, who's actually in charge in washington? because joe, by manifestly is not. and you know, whoever tony blinking takes instructions from is an idiot because he's not engaging any sort of diplomacy. he's just engaging in fostering and propaganda. but obviously not having any effect whatsoever. but you know, anybody could see it if, if they just bothered to trot. daniel isn't the voice brings up such a very good point. i think it needs to be reiterated. this complex has been going on for 8 years. okay. western media won't talk about that. they won't talk about the 14000 people that died in the don bass. the result of this, they will talk about the blockade. they don't talk about all any of these things here. and that's why when i look at this, joseph beretta, the head of the use foreign policy. he said this is going to be decided on the battlefield. i mean, he's such a buffoon and you know what he's right on this one, because if there is no way to negotiate, nobody wants to come to the table. then the russians will say, when it's over,

when it's over, when they did say it's a, it's over and a has nothing to do with any kind of arms or any other kind of overtures that come from the west. it's really a one way deal right now. daniel yeah, i mean, it is going to be decided on the battlefield and that's the problem for the west because the russian military effort started out slowly and the whole thing, li, but it's picked up momentum since then. and now the advantage over the ukrainians is really quite clear and may be pouring in more more western weaponry like the, the high mars may may offset the process for a bit, but it won't be for long because has cleared the russian war machine will keep grinding on that russian power is overwhelming and the ukrainians will be forced to to back off to can see. so the big question is, the big question, is that once that reality becomes impossible for even washington to

defy what happens next? i mean, that says, does nato call off it's, it's 25 year march to the east. yeah. due to russian, russian pressure. and what will that do to nato and the you and what will that do to, to us gemini, will there be any, any shred left of us control of the, of the global order, or will it simply fall apart? and if that, if the latter is the case, we are facing a and epic change. one of the most profound transformations of the entire post war period. and daniel, it's over you, crane with it has no strategic interest to europe or the united states. it's not a key security issue and i agree with you. we're at a pivotal moment here and it's because of hubris and neal liberal ideology are

rules based order or whatever that means. that's what it's all about gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break up about short break. we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. futures, bay with our to the ah. ah ah.

ah nice hunter. russian state to narrative. i started as i'm pulling the northland scheme, devastation mckindoe's house once a week within the city. that would be the keys on that is 2000 speedy. when else about this evening, we will ban in the european union the kremlin. yup. machines. the state on russia today, and split or t sputnik given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest and pushing dignity

electricity with a welcome across stock. were all things are considered on peter belton to remind you were discussing ukraine's future ah case. go back to alex in mexico. i daniel did a really good job of mapping out the implications of this conflict and how the world will move forward or move apart from a cause. i see it is a paradigm shift here and i don't, there's no way going back, but it's not. there's a little bit of time on the impact of these of the sanctions here. famously, chancellor schultz of germany, i refer to him on this program is sergeant schultz because he reminds me of sergeant schultz from hogan's heroes, mama,

they know the impact on europe is profound. okay. and you know, irrespective what's going to happen, i don't see sanction being lifted any time soon. the russians have been prepared for it. they've shown that they've been prepared for it and they're moving forward here. but i think the political implications for the european union are profound is well and the only upside for washington in all of this, i would say is that they have, they have an hedge, a monic control over europe. yea, what a victory that is a pirate. if victory an empty victory, if europe is not, that doesn't have hyperbaric productivity, that it's not competitive in the world. ok, i mean, so it's kind of a loser situation for europe and the political class, there's going to pay a very high cost. i really, truly believe that go ahead, alex will. i, i think that the goal for the united states and nato a structural change in russia. that's not going to happen. and to be quite frank, i don't think that there will necessarily be structural change in, in europe. either what if they're willing to fight this word to the last ukranian

than i think that they are willing to see europe fall until they're there. they are the last one standing on. so i, i think that the only country that we're going to see structural change in is ukraine, which was the last thing that they wanted. but i, i do feel that i rather than a situation of structural change in europe, we're going to see a long term, slow detour, deterioration. so, so i don't, i don't, i, i think that you can call that a paradigm shift because it is obvious that the tides are turning. but i don't think that necessarily we're going to see people, you know, storm brussels. but that's a good point. but i mean, the paradigm, let me give another example, the paradigm shift that i'm talking about. the boy, you know, joseph burrell is a very, very upset that global media continues to follow,

segregate loved off the foreign minister here and not himself. okay? i mean, the, his blog that he writes is just a gift that keeps on giving. he makes a complete of flu, not of himself here. but that's the, that, that's part of the paradigm shift that i'm talking about. the global south is not going along with they chose very clearly the global south is not respect or fear importantly, the west anymore. that's part of the change i'm talking about. go ahead and washington. well there's, there's 2 slug is basically 2 motto is that the western empire has lives by all these years. one is collegial, is what them hate me so long as the fear me, which as you pointed out, is no longer the case. now we left with just hatred, and the 2nd one to speak until you make it, which is the, you know, the driving force of drifters, all the world around. well, the griff is up there. they've been taking it. they're not making it. the world has stopped fearing and continues to hate. and now you have a situation in which basically the fabled international community has been reduced

to the us, europe at a handful of its allies around the globe. and the rest of the world is either neutral or pro russian. and this, this was not something that the west wanted to achieve. in fact, the opposite of what they wanted to achieve. i'm not sure if that was russia plan all along. but we're, this is more, this is bigger than ukraine. first of all. secondly, when it comes to ukraine itself though, it has to, it alternately has to choose between if survival as a country been tory, this regime. because this regime is going to see a dead and buried. that's right. daniel. the voice is going exactly where i want to go. i, we keep talking about ukraine, ukraine, ukraine. but what is ukraine now and what will it be? ok, this is a huge question. that's open ended right now, and the more western support we see, the smaller it gets, and i'm not really sure how attractive the run state would be. would it become a ward of b e u. and that would be part of the, ga, ga leesha,

the deletion part of ukraine, which is full of some very, very nasty people. ok, and i personally, and i'm going to say it publicly, i don't see how zalinski survives this, and he doesn't have to fear the russians. he has to fear his inner circle. daniel. yeah, i mean, when we talk about the u. s. empire being over extended. i mean, what that means is it has extended itself into a sort of a nebulous border zone. and the ukraine, the word ukraine actually means a border zone. and the, the crane is structurally weak, big. and today, it's sort of like, you know, what, that which lies between russia and europe. it's free for centuries. it's been a, it's been a high way for invaders traveling from central europe, central asia, into europe and vice versa. and so there's no stability there. there's really no

state there, there's no there there. and it's divided between the russian speaking east and south and the, and the, the ukrainian speaking west around the city of laval. and that is indeed the center of a very nasty, ultra right form of national. and it's just hard to imagine a viable state arising out of that. it's been a battle zone for years and likely will continue to be a battles on for years. and the u. s. empire sort of thrust itself into the middle of this kind of nether world. you know, and that's gonna stand the same way. i mean, afghan, it stands the border zone as well. always, it has always been on govern government. well, it's not so much a nation as

a place where the other nations and, and the u. s. thrust itself into that completely thoughtless, like, after 20 years of ended in disaster and something tells me the same thing. it's going to occur the grant. i absolutely agree with you al, it's one of the, one of the terrible things that happened as a result of the my don qu, is that, uh, the, the people that came to power and were espousing a, a nationalism that didn't have a nation. okay. it was, it was a imaginary in them their own small circle of people in, in, in western ukraine. and they thrusted on to the rest of the country, which of course, but don bass in the crimea. and so we have nothing to do with this. we, we don't, we don't agree with your definition of ukraine, your definition of what it means to be ukranian. um, and they don't, they didn't want to divorce themselves. soup from the russian language, russian traditions, russian history here. and this is what we've happened has happened here. they've

thrust themselves, he used daniel's word on them to create ukraine that never existed in never will exist for the reasons that daniel just told us. go ahead, alex. well, before i get into that, really quickly like to, i'd like to quickly circle back to our, our last point, you know, ukraine for because if it's corruption problems for the longest time, it was called the sick man of europe. but it's in an american fashion that you know where everyone's going bankrupt from the hospital bills. ah. and it really is because of what you said, the, this ultra nationalism, these people have been leading the policy agenda for more than 8 years now. oh, and, and as who and said in february, holding the people of ukraine, hostage to their, you know, neo nazi forthright. agenda. a 3rd reich agenda on so i

up, you know, it, the people of ukraine don't deserve this. yes, i, as you stated before, the show, wonderful, they're wonderful people. and i, and you know, a, it could be a situation like berlin at some point because there is a real divide in the country. and eventually russia is going to have to keep pushing them back if they keep getting supplied with longer and longer range missiles, they're going to have to push them back to a point where those missiles can't reach russia. understandably, that's, that's like, you know, imagine for a moment, if russia was tending a long range inner intercontinental ballistic missiles to mexico, we would, we would see where i live in the north become a once again. we are part of the united states as it's completely untenable. and i think that i zelinski won't, won't last through this. but the real question is, is, is, is he going to be replaced by somebody who is even more,

alter nationalistic at, at b, i at the, you know, at direction of the united states and nato in the bush, at the, at the end of the day, who's going to take the blame, who's going to be the bag man? well, i mean, obviously the united states taxpayer is currently footing the largest part of the build, the european citizens. not the leafs are taking it on the chin as far as the economic fall out. russia, sort of, you know, funding the rebuilding of the destroyed east and south. the biggest losers are going to be people living in ukraine, hands down. and all of this destruction is completely senseless. because again, all of this could have been avoided. had there not been this insistence by the collective west to create an entire russia, not just a non russia, but into russia right out of ukraine, rather than, you know, set up some sort of free trade community from,

from the atlantic to the pacific. but there are some kind of, you know, centuries old, rooster phobia and hatred and mistrust of russia has, has compelled them to act like this. and now we're all watching the consequences. but in the end, we're seeing, i'm convinced that we're seeing a sort of a re run of the syracuse expedition of antiquity in which a power whole empire is basically engineering its own ruin by engaging in the series of stupid wars and losing its power. that way and never realizing what it had done until it was to what data we got. we got 30 seconds finish off the program for us. daniel. the u. s. has gotten itself and really hot water and this is not going to end well for america, america is grossly over extended. i think america itself is, is unstable. and that this could be the, the start of a process of the unraveling of us power. that won't and until it reaches washington

itself, well, that wouldn't be a very bad idea. i just would like it without violence. ok, that's what i want. i'm completely against violence here. but i truly believe this is all in the cards here. and people say things are going to be resolved in november. now they're not going to be resolved that other than it's going to continue down this path here. it's all the time we have gentlemen, i want to thank my guests in washington, new york, and in mexico. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are key. see you next time. remember across samples. ah ah, a thing wrong when old rules just don't hold any world yet to see power. disdain becomes the african

and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, though she had them with the stock and just look up from bmw of novels, only a muscle is on noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on another streaming as possible. mamma cook, go sit good to somebody to look at that. i put a, his ashy of a dc. wanted to work with one to move for you. but of course, with you, but not with crimes, to network for phones that arrived something. yeah. that we got that. what did i

see with that with ah, is one of the most beautiful cities in russia's far east? ah, it sits on the river that runs on the russia, china buena and was for many years the far eastern capital. ah, there is no shortage of historical sites here. the officers club is one of them.