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[000:00:00;00] with hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the so called collective west is at war with russia using ukraine as a proxy. the west has made it clear at once a russia that is weaker and isolated on the world stage. to date, these attempts have ended in failure. in fact, the opposite is happened. the west is weaker and isolated, with cross sucking the west miscalculations. i'm joined by my guest, john browley in new york. he is a political analyst, as well as a former foreign correspondent in russia in washington. we have michael ma loopy is

a former pentagon seniors security policy analyst and america. we cross martin j. he is an award winning journalist, an commentator, or a gentleman, cross sack roles and fact that music and jumping in time he won. and i always appreciate, let me go to michael and watch it in 1st. let me, he saw from my introduction, i kind of wanted to focus it on russia. bed out the news flow is kind of interrupting this error. shine is very much ah, in the news flow. taiwan. i'm so michael e, it's go do a little bit of history. remember in december, i think, december 17th the, the russian center no to diplomatic note to nato, into the united states. a do watch your step. i'm going to borrow some chinese words. you know, you could get burned with ukraine. now let's talk about right now. you know, the, a, nancy pelosi, i suppose as we speak right now is approaching, or maybe even be in taiwan and the chinese sworn don't do this. they'll be consequences. is there a parallel here and who's not understanding the world? go ahead, michael. well, well, thanks for having me, peter. yeah,

there's an extraordinary parallel here. i think the chinese have learned from the ukraine lesson. they saw that mister putin, as you pointed out, i put down a red lines and, and wanted to negotiate or they were ignored. and now he's done the same say of gigi ping is now done the same thing. he's a is issued or bread lines. and he's told them don't cross it or else and the, and for some unknown reason are people are so fixed at it. they just cannot get the message and clearly is necessary. that they don't, they don't understand what it's like to have a, a 2 front war going on, all of a sudden, once again and, and in this case we're not prepared for it whatsoever. i'm not even prepared to, to help you ukrainian say very much longer given, given how quickly they're going through the logistics. so this whole thing is just

total madness and be in the august. i am very, very concerned about a possible war. and historically wars have have occurred in a, in many cases during august as long as you pointed out, and we know it was gushing the guns of august and that guns im august. okay, absolutely. martin way in there and on this here b, because the parallel with ukraine is quite remarkable. ukraine is a small country, relatively poor, very badly govern. i don't think anything you can say anything like that about china. go ahead. no, you can't. i mean, in that respect, if you put it that way, you know that you're talking about a david and goliath situation, you know, we can't afford a war or anything close to and resembles a war or a stage of war with china. that would just be simply suicide. i think the links between china and ukraine and family. and i wrap up this extensive i think there is

corruption analyst. there is an agenda is just simply on getting to and you know, i can't be the 1st commentator but so skeptical commentator to say that i really believe that either who thinks he's going to be really against the ropes come to mid terms, is looking for a massive destruct, destruction and you know, he's certainly not the 1st us present to look at the globe and see where can we have a dust up somewhere. and, you know, bring all the training much more. but martin, this is china, not panama. this is not hurting me to go to john. good news. just go in just jump in john. i mean, you know, the one common thread i'm seeing throughout. busy all this is that the democrats of the party of chaos domestic. they were behind the insurrection, the violent insurrection in summer 2020. when our city is burned for 2 months. and now. busy abroad we see there, the party of chaos they've ignited this war. reagan re ignited this war and ukraine and other pushing for war in china. so i get the feeling, they just want more chaos. more chaos brings more power,

more conscious. they can justify more contracts, whether it's spending at home or spending for defense, well, defense spending for war abroad. and that's the only common courtesy, the point of chaos, of course, as in other respects, very respectful guest, said they, the democrats are also very much interested in provoking china, provoke, and russia. i think they do want a 2 front war because this is their moment in history, where they're going to teach the other great powers of the world. they can teach them a lesson and they're going to show them who, who's bought. i mean, they think their boss, the democrats, think their boss on the planet and they are promoting their vision, their global vision for a new world order. i co, you correct me if i'm wrong here, but i mean, if the u. s. it seriously is considering some kind of conflict with china. they have to get there by ship. right. i mean, you have that move without isn't 10000 on these big aircraft carriers. um,

china is very well prepared for something like that. i mean, i just, you know, russia, ukraine, you know, they're right next to each other. okay. that's a land war. ok. this is something very different. i'm losing 3 of aircraft carriers . and 90 minutes is good to be house. i could go down, go ahead, michael. well, it's not going to go down very well, except for an air or al carriers. i'm sorry, go ahead. yeah. yeah, the chinese have warning. you basically that they, they can knock out those aircraft carriers. and i think that they're prepared to do that. they got the, the, the book that a specific type of listed missile that will, ah, if they're called carrier killers, i think it's the d of 21. and so it and, and they also have a, they also can introduced into their warfare scheme. another thing that we don't even talk about not select, electromagnetic pulse, weapon weaponry. and they practice for that, we do not. and i think that that is something else that they can use against our,

our, our combat um a terriers and our in our ships, by the way, they have a greater a much larger navy and than, than, than, than the united states. and the only way the united states to get there is by ship and they were coming half, half way around the world. and as a consequence, the, the chinese just have to lie and wait in. and it's because it's sitting, it's their domain, their territory. so it's, it's, so we have this once again shows aggression. i'm very concerned that what you still have people at the top of the state department in the biden administration, who are the accounts that are, that are calling the shots. they're unrelenting, they want, they want containment. both were china and russia. that's a consequence. we have driven both china and russia into a much greater military alliance. as a consequence, john in new york, he wanted to jump in. go ahead. yeah, just we, we have military bases in the region, so certainly we have the power to project. there are quite easily,

i mean of course we do have to bring a lot by ship, but we already have a lot of. busy military assets in the region, so we could fight a war. yes, we could find a war with china. it's going to be extremely destructive, but we could fight it in india in the region. well, i don't know that japan. i don't know that japan and the other country and south korea that, that host are basis, want to get involved in the war in china and i, that's a really good point. let me go to martin right now that the, you know, the, the, the entangling alliances, the u. s. has, which is inherently dangerous. if there's an attack on japan, then that's one thing. if there's an attack on australia, it's another thing. but taiwan is a very different thing because even the us recognizes that taiwan is part of china. that is the very basis of establishing diplomatic relations back in 79. martin go ahead. which is why i don't, i don't think don't. i don't personally, i don't think that going for war and i'll stand aside to, to,

when you're on the committees, i think they're looking for a state of emergency. and i think this is going to be a huge public relations exercise where their heart but martin that when that, that's what the here, where says in these hot heads one, the chinese may react very, very differently to that. don't lose think, well, yes, this is, it was a great danger that was great genji in ukraine and with russia and the great danger with china is miscalculation in how much confidence do you place in the biden administration. not. well, you know, the miscalculation is great because there is no the nation is great because you also have the chinese wanting good. they're going to have their communist party or a big brouhaha coming up and it's easy and ping needs to get there reelected for a 3rd term. so he's definitely gonna take a very hard stand i but i think, i think i think that was, this is, this thing is going to happen over a few weeks. and i actually believe being bridget of believe that the americans are

also waiting for this trust to be voted in conservative liter. sometimes september . she's very gun her on china foolishly. she really believes that, you know, we can really take a belligerent, very bellicose attitude militarily, with the chinese, which is hilarious, frankly. but i think, wonder if this is all something we should be planned over several weeks. you several months. you mentioned earlier about was in the summer, you know, as a journalist, i was find it somewhat ironic, somewhat amusing that so many was a planned over the summer. and if you've ever wondered why is my theory, i think the plans are in the sun because i get maximum press coverage because of all the parliaments around the world shut down during most of august, the 1st or 2nd week of september. so there's lots of space in the newspapers, stories for inclusive correspondence. when we go to the mentioned, we may go to china, new york. i mean, i, this is another elite agenda here. ukraine has been a manufactured, elite agenda. we all have to care about your grade,

even though most people don't. okay. and now the same thing here with, with china, and with really bizarre for me is that this is nancy. pelosi is farewell to where she's saying good bye. you've been traveling a lot lately. when she has time off from january 6. okay. but i mean, she's saying good bye and by the administration is not on the same page for the house be, i've never seen such a hardship in my life. go ahead, jump in this situation, the american political impish reminds me of the soviet political and best. and the early eighty's that geron accuracy. your people are very, very old to we're really not aware of what was happening in the country or in the, in the wider world. so it's maybe this whole problem, a large extent. i think they're working with the wrong information, specifically about ukraine. i had a conversation recently with people who are pro ukrainian and for the war and ukraine, and they really believe that, oh, he just fight a little bit longer. russia will collapse, crushes,

and the weak rushes the giant with the feet of clay. they really believe that they're working with false information and i wonder what information the white house and con, congressional leaders are working with. regarding china, maybe it's something similar. maybe they think china's weak now is the moment to strike. let's push them. let's humiliate them. let's show them whose boss, or maybe really these people just out of the alarm thinking. all right, i'm going to jump in here gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the west miscalculation staying with with, with the 1st time in history,

an entire country's culture has been cancelled the very modern weapon cancel, culture. daily desperate wonder who will i will sheffield malice, luther and when william frog here just me sitting there, i know it with the phrase now, particularly refers to counseling russian culture yet that no more secret of she orosco. because if you're, when you're miles for cure, which will be your that is cia mozilla that go with them most of the temperature random e. normally, what rushes created over the past 1500 years is now question, actually condemned, reviled and rejected. to sort of like a funny at the bill of brown. there's a lot closer on a whole bunch anytime anticipate a little short list. joining total condemnation, gross daily,

and now includes dostoevsky to cascade shostakovich that i need to you all the pool left. but yes, it also says that with that done, will you do obama lee? you're not going to do that a little bit more. ah, welcome back. across stock we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing the wes miscalculations. ah. okay, let's go back to michael in washington. the unipolar moment just didn't last long enough apparently for these neocons here. and i've been thinking for a very long time, i seeing what happened in a, with, with a libya. what happened with syria now with ukraine and maybe on the menu is now

china. is it the, you know, polar moment and had gemini, it's dissipating for the united states? do you think it's possible that they're seeing this is at a certain juncture where russia is very preoccupied, obviously with ukraine and the chinese. they only see them getting stronger and stronger and stronger. it's the threats through saturdays trap and the u. s. as could possibly think we'd have to take them on now or at least intimidate them. does that make sense to you? go ahead, michael. yeah, i think we're, i think the what the, the near constant in the, in the, by the ministration. see this says there less desperate effort to, to, to, to contain both russia, china. they see that this is the grand span, last grand stand up of, for that to, to preserve their unipolar world order. because they see this multi polar world order emerging. and it's emergency very rapidly. and i might add a think celebrating because of actions by the united states itself,

through the sink, through the weapon, the zation of sanctions. a gets everybody out there these days seems even against our allies and their companies. so it's, it's, it's turning the world into a whole different world that we knew just a few years ago. and as a consequence, this multi polar world order now is beginning to accelerate. for example, the bricks, countries, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're going to be getting new members here shortly. i was just informed this morning by a very reliable source that some of the air countries now want to join bricks. that's quite significant. that's in addition to saudi arabia and, and, and, and, and by, by bricks i mean, brazil, russia, india, china, south africa. they that, you know, when you bring those countries together, they constitute more than half the population of the world. yeah. and that's the merge the emerging of multi polar world order,

the united states now seeds itself competing against economic lee politically and militarily well in the end. and martin does is a complete lack of trust and faith in the west. any more, i mean, using the, the dollar, it's a weapon. i mean, it's one of the stupidest things i've seen in my lifetime and you, you should cherish that as the global theat currency, but no, they denigrated, people don't want it. why get involved in these institutions where you could be held hostage to look what they did to venezuela's gold for goodness sake. all right . it seems to me that china has learned very rapidly what the, with the, the, the west, under the leadership of the u. s. will do in the case of ukraine and china's learn what to do and what not to do, and they're prepared. one thing, i will say the russians have repaired for what had happened in ukraine, and i truly believe the chinese have prepared. i don't see anybody in washington, other than bluster being prepared, go head martin. you know,

showing is all preparing and they have been prepared for a long time because they've seen from the offset this relationship between the western china and his limits. i mean, the west comp decide whether it wants to make china master trading partner or a g, a political enemy, or a mix of the to, you know, the little confusion that but i think as more or more as this trade deficit with america of broaders and china cells and much, much more trade goods in america, the american exports to china, but it's going to obviously become a problem. a certain point to the mentioned before. bricks is very relevant. what we're seeing is shina having much more confidence. now, as these country, just a line up to join bricks so that you know, if there is ever such a threat to china, the big question is, we're trying to even stand alone or would other countries quickly, rosters defense in the regions? well, such as iran, for example, which has massive military capability. so i think the world is changing, you know,

and we're living in a new age where america on the west has to accept that there's a new world order emerging. and it is from the east, and it's, you know, it's our own fault. we've insisted on creating this new on coast, which is going out. and if you look at around the world, you'll see more importantly in my view, there's a number of non aligned countries, countries in the old days, in the cold war, who were forced more or less by the west to sign off to western germany. a lot of countries now, for example, that had former parents couldn't masters these days. those countries in africa don't follow what the west tells them to do anymore. you know, the very, very interesting because ukraine war we saw something like 35 countries, abstain to the of those to basically kick russia and 16 of those countries from countries. another 6 didn't even look a tool. so there was a very, very clear indication, right from the offset. the world is changing and a lot of these african countries will stay on the line because we believe that this

new world order is with is normally a trick. but again, they're not gonna be forced into position where they have to choose one side of the other. they want to stay neutral. but i think many also when they see what's going on with the west, china will start also to look at ways of how they can impress bricks and so not to be prompt, become members of bricks as well. so the east is growing and everything the west us just seems to be like, shooting itself in the foot. every minute of wow, it said it really is, this really is an extra moment here, john, because there's a continue on with martin was saying here that the, the west cannot accept that the world is changing in ways that they can't control. and that is really the dilemma right now. when you look at joseph parales blog. i mean he's just a madman. he has no idea what's going on in the world. and he's running the u. s. foreign policy list truss. i mean, she, she couldn't fight her way out of

a paper bag. okay. and then you have your joe biden, the king of them all. i mean, and the world is changing in a rapid pace and they have no comprehension of it. and that's what makes them truly dangerous. go ahead, john. what does the west have to offer the world they go war struction they go, let's look at the past when years it's been war and destruction. iraq, libya, syria, again, the stand. what is the main organization for the collective west? it's nato. it's a military alliance. what's the main organization? let's say for the other side, it's bricks. it's an economic development organization. so we see on one side is a highly, militaristic, dangerous organization civilization the west rung, as you said by very old and unhinged people on one side. on the other side is a block that wants economic development to respect national sovereignty and to foster mutual beneficial economic relations to nominate non align country. who am i

going to choose the unhinged militarist or the side that wants economic development and national sovereignty? john, yeah, you should, you should be very careful with your words, john, because you're going to be cancelled very, very quickly for is talking pragmatic sense. ok. sovereignty. oh, my god, i haven't heard bad on the mainstream media for decades now, but that's exactly michael, that, that's really what's going on here. is that you it the, the, it's a whirl and then there's a literature on the world beyond the west. it, and not only is, it was a literature 20 years ago. it's a reality now. and that is something europe in the americans, and they're in their friends, in nato world, in the like japan and australia, et cetera. they can't seem to find their way how they can fit into it. i mean, we, we, we had some of the u. k coming out. you know, they're going to be definitely, you know, i'm sorry, was a german chancellor. while i referred to a sergeant schultz condemning my china and supporting taiwan, i mean,

no surprise there. no, and i, i can tell you that the, the i saw this when i was at the defense department. im when central asia 1st opened up, it was like a whole new world, a whole new universe out there that i had never known about and, and where, and that was the, that constituted the east, the, the east, the eurasia, a bad accent here that we have is, is something that we, the west has no concept of, and we're seeing that today. i might add that in addition to bricks, we're also seeing the belt road initiative yet has begun to spawn. and, and now it's reaching into latin america. it's into africa. it's all across eurasia, and that combined with the eurasia economic union bricks, belton road. i mean, that's formidable economic engine that, that the united states now is very,

very concerned about and finds very threatening. and that's where they can't go up against it. i saw inside michael michael, that jack's the position is i just want more basis around the world. i mean, we can take africa, for example, you know, the us shelves. it's my building, you know, bases, you know, the chinese economy development that we can do argue and debate that what kind of economic development. but they're far more interested in prosperity becoming rich. and let me go back to a martin american, you know, that's what the west stood for. security dignity, the rule of law prosperity. all of those are going away right in front of our eyes . so what kind of model is it for anyone in the world now go ahead america? did they really stand for those values? i mean, perhaps they did. there was a tiny moment perhaps in the early sixties when most of those countries in africa became independent on they clung on the suits and relationships. they handle their

colonial masters. but i'm not sure if any of these values mean anything any more to these countries. you know, i mean, when the african leaders often complain when you comes with them, that gives a speech about human rights. when china comes to be with them open schools and hospitals like that's really basic summing up. you know, these, most of these countries i'm looking to china now to be the new lead to invest money . you know, some like $3000000000.00 or for an investment just last year in the african continent from china. it's pretty impressive. like a lot. there's much less than the americans to china is really the real player in africa now. and i think this is going to be real, a real determination and a tipping point. now in this new will finish off with tom, we're almost out of time. do you think the chinese are afraid of woke pentagon? no, not, not at all. sure. they welcome it. very much so i do not think the u. s. is unable to fight why we're trying to. we will lose. we do not have. we might have the technology in the, in the armaments,

in the weapons. we do not have the will. we do not have the mind, we do not have the brilliance like we used to have we, we will lose. yeah. and john, you know, where is public opinion here again, another major comp a. nobody's consulted. no. if there's no debate that just a lead debate on, on the networks and that's it cable, and that's all the debate and people we may be going into a major conflict. and no one consulted the people. and they say the debate is between the top chrissy and democracy. it's rubbish here, gentlemen, that's all the time we have a want to thank my guess in washington, new york and america. what i think our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember the

aah needs to come to the russians state little narrative. i've stayed on the no santini div asking him then i can hold them up for a group in the city. probably okay, so mine is $25.00. i'm speaking with real bad in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia today and split ortiz spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube said with

me, ah, so they'll ship it completely new machine to restock and just look up from when i'm literally a muscle around noon, she judy doesn't beating train show on a nurse to me as possible. mama cook gas gosh said get somebody to look at that to his ashley of this it wanted with wonder. no, please. this is sort of cool. jason, did he but he has not put the key for the chain of times to network for furnished or something like that. and then we go with that. what did i say? it's a residential l grain lisa. ah

ah ah ah, for the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been trashed with a very modern weapon cancelled culture. really desert one the gulag was jesse malin, so little boy in one with frog yet just me sitting there. i know it would preclude the phrase now, particularly refers to counseling russian culture yet. no. was it clear of? see all those go to the zip code when you moved folks to 20. well we own there is charlie mozilla that though the most alyssa bridge haven't m e de moines