technologies the source on media, you know that from the very beginning it, there has been a disagreement. oh, who are the main protagonist, whether it is neighborly, tries between russia and ukraine for the independence of ukraine, or whether it involves some other actors as well. how do you see it when i 1st started by 1st thing for my funds, yellow, our sense of those, those very human beats in our stance on people to grips to see what i can see, the brother and sister at all, or ross. well, this problem, africa would have been to my ukrainians, and by us it was breaking silence mcdaniels do so i me of all goes to who formed is the ha break receipt grub. i insist i gave brother, sister, that's the 1st thing i want to say. we also bleed because the, remember,

we did not have accounts, but it doesn't belong to us. the girls build, it washes them the nazi swings out here the last night. and many, many puzzles, won't give up the whole marcia dogma. oh, my, who is a part of that, i was to discuss issues of the sort of, you know, my own was most school and i said this in my whole watsonville group. it was a different, it was what we find out for our audience, because in your younger years, you trained as a military engineer in that, in lots of places around the soviet union. can i ask you this opportunity and ask you whether you saw any difference between the russians and the ukrainians at that time, political, ethnic culture? and do you think this war, this current conflict could have been avoided with the soviet union was not whatever differences the b, 5 among people customer and we just thought of and so on. when i was received by

one group of people, we never had to go on and i lived in central for, you know, this is the point i lived in, in let him go after the time for the recorder. but most of the time we lived in moscow, what i'm going to do, maybe better the way that it will not be a will of these things, but will be by one people. i think for, for that that's why it's a big when the country it will come up in 1991. there's nothing we can do. but when this double close to taking place, it affects us as well. and we hope, and we have what suggestions about how this thing must come to an end, because all was at the end of the mouse come to men. when, before we talk about how it may and do you think it could have been to that of sort of and i would say what are state that in public? i'll state what is the said over even by mean other at the end of 1945 would

not change. this thought is to all kate, we had to organizations when the cold war we got we had in the north atlantic to jog on this and that was okay. does the sundays from impala? these were minutes out of the organization. is there not a big organization or the program they pushed us for less than $45.00 until 1989 on with it. where did the cold war and so when that was so for did over little was there by life. mental is a war or gun issue, so the big so the progress of mental health care for life. and nobody can just do this and we're fight for the point where the people with the same that nobody can just do that. but you have to be here over and over again from western politicians, from nato officials that need harbors no malicious intent b,

russia. i did what i see is the flu fight. the somebody who fought the strike, use a party when legal, kansas were healthy. why does natal doing go through the government, given them weapons has been the even the with one. yeah. because would not try to change. use the, i know today's quote, you know, who granted dropped those to you. but i'd like to get that is under risky, but if i go to fight against the attack was if it does become questionable by the pool, we may need to start that will be what russia when you do this, no, i think can be that when i said that was set up. this one was i'm good. what about one off of route this land terrorists will come from iraq. celia

and other have now come into after got it, come to so my the other come to laws. i'm be next to us and they started the war here. this current last year, me our so just because the data is now next door. there's times off of that that is fully at war to find like uses those. so not just not a number of countries do what we call the south african development for which we went there because the data is a bit because the thought affected, nobody must lead to ask the words above what was done is to we can see therefore 2 things will have their reaction that reaction or must go to some people. what's your issue now or to some people in most? what was the last no security or for us to come?

nobody must come with the story that there's no with, with an oil. if it's not who this is, the roots organization doesn't allow the shifting growth will start with your good. listen, you do that and it comes with it's all you don't need to persuade me that you know, the russian security interest and both. i will, i agree with you totally here, but still this is, i think this is going to be one of the most painful conflicts for russian recent history. precisely because of what you said we have most of us have family members in ukraine. they have childhood memories in your brain. so even if the, you know, national security interests were involved, it was an extremely difficult decision. i will have to leave with the consequences of it for years and perhaps tickets to come. now i want to turn to your own story because you have a very interesting story of fighting for what you believe to be your country's

destiny, being an anti apartheid student leader joining the aren't organization of the african national congress. them being in, being in prison on the robin island, but nelson mandela, et cetera. in those terms, did you ever doubt what was right and what was wrong? how did you arrive at your own conscience and your own piece of, you know, making those decisions because, you know, fighting against what you see as injustice. you can do that. you know, in white glove. sometimes you take measures that you hate and still you have to take them the 1st of the few people struggle. oh, what did the struggle for liberation like yourself a form of mother. and 1st of them was underpinned by chris. for justice. wait 20. i days, the leases them and we've planned with

a whole lot of us. american people supported us. mr. i didn't was one of the best of point us off associate is off of the job. we were supported from it who again, bridget, so hm. so, so we're driven by the chris wade quality on non racialism. and for justice when the police been of our own country, all these go through that route. we're not faced with the problem with we wait, we approach that guidance. issue with that kind of an i p live become that what they thought it was lovely. so you know what, you and stuff that we're going to rush in. see, flints will love you gone in. and one friend of mine is them is often what we can never accept as people wrote when we did full source of justice or human rights. is that hate cliffs? not he's been split. is the world to be and we're not part of the he does that sees

it's a sport man. you must denounce to come to play tennis, no less than what to expect. if you could get an answer for the sake of main tennis or football, it will never happen. so they have to use that much. so in any case, in all of the, of one of buying, it would have big russian people. that's what you're kind of people we try both with the students into a prison with team we also provide with the national so that any c or president for, for you, you know, if i can, yes, we probably will see. you think sofi does all sorts of things, these are good to believe in this country. but one thing we must also be trying to use your claim and they'll say prisons the lives you must be aware of that we are leaving for you see on the board. i mean, you are born in that is that when the,

when i was going to go to point to be the president that respect what must come and all of them are these people want to fight. until the last you going, you know, there was to put them lose weight week. the is the last when they used in your great as 10 am for the buck must come to and then who was i bring it by model is a disaster. therefore this they must come to an end through slave the 3 b discussion dialog and debates for now mrs. wiley, we have to put an end to both discussion dialogue and debate because we have to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments station. ah, and this is hunter, russian state will never be tied up on the no santini destination

house and up with 55 with. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy with van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aunt, rush up to date and r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest with me. hold me is the aggressor today. i'm authorizing additional strong sanctions. today russia is

the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. i figure which of literally unless of course, renewed as we speak on the billing is pretty much the mind. the we're, we're ship, we're branding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g, i suffering the price. i know they plenty of those with the letter from, you know, where, where did you have regarding joe, by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroy the american economy. so there's your boomerang self. i'm willing to do no cranium, t o d n i d she ship, dr. lien that she put a control in, put you on board. so we should, she'll be at the mo, the, the system really being yet in the did not seem to what's,

what's in the facility and we can do a jim, jeff, dr. room, there's a lot of the my subway, but just a total take. you know what of them? i need a one, they feature or a to leave it with global. i'm saying years about how she took on the job these to put up the enough with you with a

ah, welcome back to wells. and i say, well, we have prominent south african petition business matter and ally of nelson mandela mrc. while before the break, you mentioned that in your anti apartheid struggle, you were supported by people from around the world in the americans. but i know for a fact that nelson mandela, ah, why some time, i mean this person who is now considered to be one of the carriers greatest carriers of human conscience. he was considered a terrorist and he couldn't receive an american visa for quite some time. when in your own perception, when did that sweet occur? when he start was some being seen as a, as a, as a terrorist. and suddenly it became one of the scenes. i go news for you

until this dam trust surprises. the terrors from it. we took up this case with nelson mandela, went to the white house and met president george bush and other people can get his license for one of the things i was lazy. and like i said, this question was, this thing of being continued to be classified. this tell this, you know, that is possible, but it's in my passport. i'm still restricted. i got a switch because we, we, we were having the cottage and the owner, austin the for the freedom of our people. now, in america and other parts of the world to us, oh, world, apart like we'll see where some other people are supporting us and some of the people who are against us. but, you know, gave linda becoming president people i became a prim yet no. so modality seem at residence and told him that time up with level 3 in america. but when i went and talked to one of the business,

you start to stream up us with this was so i kept on being stop at the airport. and i guess i forgive them because no, the current i've been station the time, the best we can just drop it off. not so with us. if i do that. but because we had one, you know, because we had prevails. it was no good music for america to punch in recording us . there was but i'm saying that i'm good people in the united states than anywhere else in the world are good people with what we have to do through and bates. good dial through to promote discussions. we stance to make sure that this war constant and as i think the ascii is affecting the world economy yesterday, only the international monetary fund, whatever it is, was, has don't lead the growth of the world. you know, because of what is everything, not the oil, but the sanctions because the fact both weights not less than but because of it and it's rock for any group of countries to dig it up. one of them sells to put it on

the right. it's if you play because you're going to talk, if you do the simplest point in the electric wind problem, so everybody's good bye. so when you talk about russian, you're in trouble. so i mean, just also posted to certain people and i don't like that because there are also free people in this world. but we believe that everybody like the week there is a need for people to sit down. and unfortunately, the talk to, to have any bells have looked like see they put in the did and, but i want you as somebody i know very well present with tie again, i know you said the didn't give me this meant the least. you almost ready to see you, but and then we've got good discussion inside of listen to the hold up questions, questions them up? i think it is good. you need to take the 1st step,

but somehow people have got to find it. and mr. sec with it because i have been calling for data for quite some time. and i know you've been following these calls like from it's very beginning, and i think it was in 2015 when you published an open letter to present to 10. and a president obama was overcome the hubris and come to the negotiating table. and to some extent, this call was heated because president put in and present guided math in geneva last year. and they talked about the origins of their disagreements, but the united states continued military rising in ukraine and continued using its land to present the military, french to russia. isn't there a certain point when the dial needs to stop so that the other side, you know, understands that then you know, so using that dialogue to, to deliver harm to its adversary? no, no. i said that i know was going to be the soldier,

goodbye. i'm our come to us or your price or more than a 100 years. so i understand this thing and whether i'm of the i feel we can even play a role and plug with us. you know, the about 2 months and the prison on both sides. we have been in prison for more than 15 years, so i wanted to say that the time of value is always an opportunity to be seized. there's one who has a lot lower cost. is that oh, pretty much i believe with all the leaders and i'm not talking for any organization . i don't a little programs, asians business and so, but as an international citizen and as somebody will do this they, we might not be that clever. oh it's a bug we'll wise wisdom means that we're seeing this then before because it will end up in dire list. keep the door open and i'll leave with our brother in law school am open not dont wish it did and yourself. i understand

what you said, but it's time for it to just sit down, find a way even, you know, just to meet face to face. i know it's not easy to take the 1st step. lead of those, give up hope for me. i live in that hope, the next one that we, we negotiate, we started talking with the enemy of that wish it was we were still met and this is a fight if the russian, any ukrainian people and they, russia and ukraine leaders indeed decide to mean the thing is within the capacity of the ukrainian government of the ukrainian leadership to put on not only to put an end to that war, but to implement the commencement that they may take upon themselves. i am on which is, for example, making ukraine neutral. i from what i hear of the russian, that official saying they don't want the ukrainian sovereignty, they don't want to decide anything for the ukrainians. what they want is new credit . you're going to try and stop presenting

a strategic threat to russian militarily. as long as that is taken care of ukrainians are free to receive whatever plane they see for themselves. but do you think this decision rather within key key capacity or that it perhaps needs to be taken taken elsewhere. and how would you persuade those powers elsewhere to commit to that? i know you're busy with poverty, but that's the essence of negotiation. and deliberations and guy, look into my discussion. those points are easy, are the points ought to be handled as the discussions? because the 1st thing is decision of all these almost is it no movement of fellow who kind of groups and then can talk about the details of all these guarantees. we also have once those up questions for the debate, you can say do this before we go, then it's something that was negative, but we're going to meet about uses. of course, those things mcnair too,

but the subject of the discussions is, so the only thing i'm see, let the brother or sister come to themselves discuss people come from outside and call more fuel into the situation. rubens, the lives look that are supposed to stand up as a president with the strength of your own people. and that's why you have questions about it. but be careful that you play would not be controlled by others on those that you are with. so these you have to do by doing, you know, is what i thought and he's really good and it's going to take a little bit of work. but let me give him a lot of people behind this house law. thank. this is the problem, this, but tell us, and of course the recording weapons from outside not be in the situation. we need more as just to say more joe, joe, joe, not wall. so the people who are bringing weapons, you know, maybe it's time for the warehouse all the way off with that is what we're seeing.

but this must have but definitely in this part of the world, we are not food. all these the mix, the best things for that to come to us to realize that the questions and comments at the end of the day, you are left on your own. because when people are what is better, can i ask him very quickly about something that you mentioned before? the fact that this conflict is having the rest of the world, and there are many express how warning about the growing danger, not hunger in developing countries because of the rising fuel and for the prices are prompted by the, by the sections. western sanctions against russia isn't that also to some extent, a sign of supremacy when a 2nd part of the world can decide that everybody else can suffer because of his decision to penalize that's a rush or somebody else. isn't that the very essence,

if you will, of apartheid or fashion and how as the international community, we can deal with that so that you in south africa don't have to pay, let's say, for our russian mistake. because at this point of time, the most vulnerable countries are not even forced to carry the burden of the of the western sanctions. because the west doesn't like something about russia. the group is a group of it is a limited works. remember in the, in the solar system, where does the book, the communication from a police report is never such a high state. that's what happens on the 3rd part of the world says this phone book is immediate in record time. but the point of a form of war when you impose sanctions just clearly warfare gives other people is affecting us. the work is the bed and all peaks. we feed into the puzzle bombs, which we did with mrs. if you need almost every way. we're not part of this,

that's why we have good the rights. i would say, why does this blackman's talking? who he's right to the end of the web and sub i will the right to the 2nd of the world to point a finger at the wrong thing about his deputy. we can kill the bidding of the sanctions because they go the sanctions, the unilateral. they're not united nation functions. we in south america, so the live intent for 30 years. we asked from 1960 to 99. we had asked for qantas to impose sanctions on south africa. they play jokes with us, deadly dogs with us. the sanctions don't last have i had mouth where they was in one day. we understand the games are going to be all real things that we're asking for people to recognize the for week. and i'm going to say this for the last time. the danger of what is happening in that part of the world. you can have this wall

breaking out into something else because of mistakes, incompetence alike, left mess, or a miscalculation you see, let not the leaders of the world in this part of the world. nation able to body, including prison per diem, i in danger because other people may take advantage of the situation and throw em you. but on top of the family, lead us the white house, lead us the claim, lin, lead us prison zelinski. people have got to sit down and by the weight is the decimal. if you don't, there was she was friends of the checks negotiate with you. and then even when you see done, it may well get how the war, what, what, who ended, you know, what did with it. but today we can talk with people. but when you go on, you know, you, you think you something that he's been gone for by a car for the children on both sides of the fence. these are all the children that

don does, the book called and quite close the door by shuttle the door with both wash in any painting people. you all belong. well, mister farley, i told dad not only our past, but also our future, but we have to leave it there. thank you very much for your with the but for the children live to school. there just conflict. thank here it's our viewers for watching hope to hear again next week with mm ah

ah ah ah thing.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic development. only really i'm getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult. time time to sit down and talk with you to look up for a muscle on you. you know, she doesn't being in the green show on a nurse to me as close to mom with his ashley of and they wanted to work with

them to not work for phones or something. yeah that. and then we got that with that with is the aggressor tune chose this war. today i'm authorizing the just strong sanctions. i think which of course, you just click on the preventing all importance, russian oil and gas by imposing these sanctions are russia has destroyed the american? in fact, there's boomerang, i think, where is suffering the ice re key interest really hitting people in the pocket book that i see are using in the.