thought she got her photo, after all. a professor of politics, joseph mahoney, say the buys and administration is openly meddling in china's affairs and pillows. these visit to tie one could be the tipping point. for many are concerned. the vine has been hollowing out to one china policy and the principal a strategic ambiguity. his characterization of china as a strategic rival is pressing nato to consider china as an adversary is block building in asia with office including perforated nuclear submarines, austria his meddling and china's affairs. and she and young tibet, hong kong and taiwan. his admission of us troops and tie his efforts to draw china's immediate neighbors and to the so called endo pacific quad, his encouraging japan to increase military capabilities and amendment to upgrade a controversial missile system in south korea. all while asserting us will come to ty, wants defense, and at times, equivocating on the one china policy. all of these collectively represent several red lines cross from beijing perspective. and now what close it coming this might

be the tipping point? marsh's defense ministries, a 1000 by john's military, has violated a sci fi with neighboring armenia wounded, at least one armenian soldier near the border between the 2 countries. the incident happened and the dispirited nickel when i came back reach. and when russian peacekeepers have been stationed under an international agreement following assa by johns military victory over armenia, back in november 2020. the armenians side has recently accused as the by john of violating the seas, fire, and selling villages in the area. bach, you has denied the allegations. thanks to you for joining us on asi international, this sunday. as always, plenty more stories updates on documentaries to be found on our website onto dot com. mm ah

ah. with mm. ah, welcome to all the parties that efforts to isolate loss goes on to west comparing it to a party dial sounds after claiming that depression were to have its own. nelson mandela government, which has to be ostracized, and the country's economy. boy quote, it is not a viable historical lesson to be applied again, or perhaps another international colonial thinking to discuss that i'm now joined

by and talk while a prominent african politician and this is an ally of nelson mandela. this is a while, it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time as well. let's see. now, you're literally your worlds apart from russia and ukraine in johannesburg, some 15000 kilometers away from where we are. how much attention is given to this conflict in your part of the world and how is that covered the world's global rebates? you know, uh huh. there's nothing separately any way where that is in the oscar to home today . well, the tank in model for right now where those bodies music is there with them that with that you're going all of the discussion by love wrong with or that we did these things on time on this one. and i must say, lou from the stops we have it. but it's our disappointment. am i the think

that there's been attempts to since i news, we come from the lens of nelson mandela. we come from the background and the history of class. he's a party, it was a home or 1st room, your u. s. and s, when the listeners must understand that these are all on the a lot of them sitting in nazi germany. and after $945.00, they came here to start their own formal for all of them or fresh is then with the policy. so, so from the length of next monday, we know what since i see we know what the war is. we'd know what aggression use and therefore when the news display on the web, you see everything that's supposed to do with modern technology. media. you know that from the very beginning there has been a disagreement. oh,

who are the main protagonist? whether it is neighborly tries between russia and ukraine for the independence of ukraine, or whether it involves some other actors as well. how do you see when i started by expressing for my slides yellow, our sense of what's most rare human beats in our sense of the progress to see what i can see, the brothers and sisters at war ross on this process where we can buy ukrainians and by us it was biggest financed mcdaniels do so. i mean it's all goes to form. this is the ha break receipt. grove, i insist i gave brother, sister, that's the 1st thing i want to say. we also believe, because remember, we do not have accounts, but wanted to belong to us. it belongs to that question than must,

when judge of the most and many, many parts of the world, the, about the whole. masha dogma, our whole my, who is a particular type, was the, this goes to who's of the soviet do my own, wants most school. and i said this my whole wants it over is also different. it was what we have to find out for our audience. vickers in your younger years, you trained as a military engineer in that and to lots of places around the soviet union. can i ask you this opportunity and ask you whether you saw any difference between the russians and the ukrainians at that time, political, ethnic culture? and do you think this war, this current conflict could have been avoided with the soviet union was not whatever differences that could be among the people in your thought of info on what i was received by one group of people. we never had to connie and i lived in

central, probably not. this is of us. the 4th i lived in in linda after the time. so they, they quoted with me. but most of the time with school, what i'm going to do, maybe better the way that is about be aware of these things. but when you buy one people, it's nothing for it thus lights a day when the country is broken off in 1990. when there's nothing we can do, but when this terrible quantity is taking place, it affects us as well. and we hope and we have what suggestions about how this thing must come to an end, because all was at the end of the mouse come to an end when, before we talk about how it may and do you think it could have been prevented? absolutely, absolutely. and i will say, what are stated in public? i'll state what is the said over even by me. the other end of 1945 is not changed. the story is to our teeth we. we had 2 organizations when the cold

war we got, we had not planned to teach august and that was okay. does the standards from impala these limited, sadly, organization is there not to be on bob graham faced the program. they pushed us for 1145 until monday. tonight i'm with where did the cold war and so when that was all forwarded over mid to was kept the life mental is a war or gun nation. so the big so the progress of mental health care for life at no body can destroy this and we're fighting for the point where the people to see that nobody can do that. but yet we hear over and over again from western politicians, from nato officials that need harbors no malicious intent. lisa v. russia.

i did what i see as the flu. find somebody who fought the strike, use a party when legal kansas were helping. what does natal going through the government given them weapons has been the even the with ones. yeah. because would not try to change. use the i know today's convenience to garage to drop the go 5, i guess that is under whose rescue. but if i got to fight against the attack was it does become questionable by the food we may need to start. that will be what russia when you do this, no, i think can be done. when i said that was set up this one to step with about one off ramps that islamic terrorists will come from iraq. celia and other have now come a doctor got in this company so mildly of them come to laws. i'm next to us and

they started the war here. this current last year, me our so just because the data is now next door, there's times off of that that is fully at war. go fired like use those. so not does our grand number of countries do what we call the software development for, which we went there because the data is everything that's the big because the so affected look what you must lead to the words about what was done is to we can see therefore, 2 things will have the reaction that reaction or, or was go to some people who was your issue now or to some people in most, what was the national security interests of russia didn't come. nobody must come with the story that there's no with, with an oil. if it's not, so this is

a 10, and now the shifting growth will start with your good list of your 2 of them and it comes with it. so you don't need to persuade me that you know, the russian security interest and both. i will i agree with you totally here, but still this is, i think this is going to be one of the most painful conflicts for russian recent history. precisely because of what you said we have most of us have family members in ukraine. they have childhood memories in your brain. so even if they, you know, national security interests were involved, it was a, an extremely difficult decision. i will have to leave with the consequences of it for years and perhaps take it to come. now, i want to turn to your own story because you have a very interesting story of fighting for what you believe to be your country's destiny, being an anti apartheid student. later joining the aren't organization of the

african national congress. them being in, being in prison on the robin island, but nelson mandela, et cetera. in those times, did you ever doubt what was right and what was wrong? how did you arrive at your own conscience and your own piece of, you know, making those decisions because, you know, fighting against what you see as injustice. you can do that. you know, in white glove. sometimes you take measures that you hate and still you have to take them. the 1st of the few people struggle off. what is the struggle for liberation? i get a form of mother and 1st of them was underpinned by chris for justice. great quantities. i danced the laces them and we'd play with the whole lot of the 1st american people supported us. mr. biden was one of the best up want

us associate is not posted. we were supported from if we can, bridget, so on. so, so we're given by the chris weighed quality, or non gratian allison, and for justice, when the police on comes, all of these both will don't route. we're not faced with the problem with we we, we approach the currency issue with that kind of p, lynn become that what they've done it, we've lovely so you are quite yes or no questions here wasn't your gun? yes. and one friend of mine is them is optim. what we can never accept as people wrote when we did full source of justice or human rights, is that hate slit. not he's been split in the world to be and will not be part of the he does not say it's a sport man. you must be allowed to come to play tennis. no person would expect it,

but you could get an answer. for the sake of playing tennis or football, it will never happen. so it must. so in any case, in all possible though, we're not buying, it would've been russian. people as well. you're kind of people, we try both with the security in. so prison put team will also try with the last to know if it is or isn't it for you, you know, if i can, yes, we probably will see. you think sofi does all sorts of things, these are big to be leaving this country. but one thing we must also be trying to use your crate and those i present their lives, you must be aware of that we are leaving for a voice. i mean, you are one in that it is the day when i was going to go to point to be the president. but most common cause and realize that these people want to fight

until the last you go and you know, there was to put them lose weight loss when they used to new. great as 10 am for the buck must come to an end. who was a brand new by model is a disaster. therefore, they must come to an end to say the 3 b discussion dialog and debates for now mrs. wiley, we have to put an end to both discussion dialogue and debate because we have to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah a

welcome back to wells appointments. ok sick? well, we have prominent south african petition, businessman and an ally of nelson mandela. mr. sick, while before the break, you mentioned that in your anti apartheid struggle, you were supported by people from around the world in the americans. but i know for a fact that nelson mandela, we're white some time. i mean this person who is now considered to be one of the carriers greatest carriers of human conscience. he was considered a terrorist that he couldn't receive an american visa for whites on a time when in your own perception, when did that sweet occur? when he saw was some being seen as a, as

a terrorist and suddenly became one of the saints. i got news for you. i'm to this day i'm to we've got this case with nelson mandela went to the white house and miss president george bush and other people on that is that ice. and so one of the things i was lazy and like i said this question was this thing of being continued to be classified this tell this, you know, that is possible. i but it's in my passport, i'm still restricted. i want to america a switch because we, we, we, we, we, we're having the cottage and the owner, austin, the are for the freedom of our people. now, in america and other parts of the world to us all worlds apart, like you'll see where some other people are supporting us. and some of the people are against us. but you know, it's lindy becoming president people chase. i became

a premier here. that's the mother became a president and told him that climb up with level $33.00 in america. but when i went and talked the business, he started showing my passport again. but this was so i kept on being stop at the airport and i guess i will give them because it's not the current administration. they've had their best to change a law. it was not used so with us if i did it. but because we had one, you know, because we had prevails. it was not good music america wanted to quoting us. there was, but i'm saying that i'm good people in the united states than anywhere else in the world are good people in russia. what we have to do through debates who dial through to promote discussions. we stand to make sure that this war comes to an end of summer. i think the ask is affecting the world economy yesterday, only the international monetary fund, whether it is worth as downgrade the growth of the world. you know,

because of what is everything, not voicemail but the sanctions because the both weights the last been but we did it and it's wrong for any group of countries to pick it up. one of them sells to put a gun on right. it's if you play because you're going to talk if you do the simplest point but i should when trouble. so everybody is despite. so when you talk about the russian, you're in trouble. so well being terrorized also proposed to certain people and that will not accept because they're also free people in this world. but we believe that it would like the week there is a need for people to sit down and dissolve. unfortunately, the talk to, to have any bells have not, let's see, they're putting said that we did and, but i want to you as somebody i know very well present with try again. i know you said the didn't give me this meant the least you almost baby to see him

but and then we've got the discussion inside. listen to the personal question of the my party is not an easy thing to take the 1st step. but somehow people have got to find it a little bit because i have been calling for a job for quite some time. and i know you've been following these calls like from it's very beginning, and i think it was in 2015 when you published an open letter to present to 10. and a president obama only overcome the hubris and come to the negotiating table. and to some extent, this call was heated because president put in and present biden math in geneva last year. and they talked about the origins of that disagreements. but the united states continued militarize in ukraine and continued using its land to present the military french, russia. isn't there a certain point when the dial needs to stop so that the other side, you know,

understands that then you know, so using that dialogue to, to deliver harm, to its adversary, not my own own. our said that i know was going to be the soldier, goodbye. i'm our come to us or your price or more than 300 years. so i understand this thing and whether another thing i feel we can even play a role and plug it with us. you know, the about 2 months and the prison on both sides. we have been in prison for more than 15 years. so i wanted to say that the time of value is always an opportunity to be seized. those who have not, no, what is that open him of life. i'll leave with all the leaders that i'm not talking for in your organization. i don't a lot of organizations, business and so well as an international citizen. and as somebody will do this, that we might not be that clever. ok, but we are wise. wisdom means that we're seeing this thing before,

because it will end up in dial list, keep the door open and i'll play with our brother in law school and open not dornbush at did and yourself. i understand what he said, but his time for them to sit down, find a way even, you know, just just to meet face to face. i know it's not easy to take the 1st step. lead of those give up hope for me. i live in that hope, the next one that we, we negotiate, we started talking with the enemy of that, wish it was, we were still your budget. this is a while i, in the russian, any ukrainian people and they russia and ukraine leaders indeed decides you mean the thing is within the capacity of the ukrainian government of the ukrainian leadership to put on not only to put an end to that war, but to implement the commitments that they may take upon themselves among witches. for example, making ukraine neutral. i,

from what i hear of the russian official saying they don't want the ukrainian sovereignty, they don't want to decide anything. so the ukrainians, what they want isn't your credit. you're going to be neutral and so presenting a strategic threat to russian militarily. as long as that is taken care of ukrainians are free to perceive whatever plane they see for themselves. but do you think this decision rests within kia caves capacity in, or that it perhaps needs to be taken, taken elsewhere, and how would you persuade those powers elsewhere to commit to that? i know, yes this is, these plans have been placed public, but that's the essence of negotiation and deliberations and dialogue and to promote discussion. those points are easy and the point is ought to be handled as the discussion because the 1st thing is decision of all these all since they get the no movement of the movement of those. and then we'll talk about the details of all these guarantees was all size, once those up questions for the debate. you can,

you can say do this before we go, then it's something that mug negative that would meet about the stance. of course, those things like that, but the subject of the discussion. so the only thing i'm see led, the brother was just like times is themselves discuss people don't come from outside and call more fuel into the situation. prisons their lives here is what they're supposed to stand up, not as the president, we respect that off your own people. and that's what you question about. but be careful about you. plain would not be controlled by others on those that you are with. so these, you have to do by doing, you know, it, and he's a little background and he's a little bit of it. but let's be convinced him and not other people behind this off thing. this is the problem, this, but tell us, and of course we broke all the weapons from outside, not be in the situation. we need more as to say more joe, joe, joe,

not wall. so the people who are bringing weapons, you know, maybe time for the warehouse all the way with that is what we are. but this must have but definitely in this part of the world, we are not food by all these. this is the best thing for that to go just to the end of the day. because questions and comments at the end of the day, you are left on your own rico who when people are, what is better? can i ask him very quickly about something that you mentioned before? the fact that this counseling is having the rest of the world and there are many express how warning about the growing danger of not hunger in developing countries because of the rising fuel. and food prices prompted by the, by the sections western sanctions against russia is and then also to some extent, a sign of supremacy when a 2nd part of the world can decide that everybody else can suffer because of his

decision to penalize, let's say russia or somebody else isn't that the very essence, if you will, of apartheid or fashion and how as the international community, we can deal with that so that you, in south africa don't have to pay, let's say, for our russian mistake. because at this point of time, the most vulnerable countries are not even forced to carry the burden of the of the western sanctions. because it was not like something about russia. the group is a group of it is a limited works. remember when in the, in the follow system, where does the book take? those is communication from a police report. there's never such a high state. that's what happens on the thought part of the world. so this focus is immediate in record time. but the point of a form of war will impose sanctions,

let it clearly warfare gives other people is affecting us. no work is the bed and all beats we feed into the pencil bombs, which we did with ministers, with almost every way. we're not part of this, that's why we have got the right. i would say, why does this blackman's talking? who he's right to the end of the web in sub i will the right to the 2nd of the world to point a finger at the wrong thing. about his deputy, we can kill the bidding of the sanctions because day the go, the sanctions, the unilateral, they're not united nation. we in south america for the live intent for 30 years. we asked from 1960 to 9090. we had asked for congress to impose sanctions on south africa. they play jokes with us, deadly dogs with us. the sanctions don't last have i had mouth where there was in one day. we understand the games are going to be all real things that we're asking for people to recognize the 48. and i went to say this for the last time,

the danger of what is happening in that part of the world. you can have this wall breaking out into something else because of mistakes. in concrete dance, like less ness or a miscalculation you see, we're not the leader of the world in this part of the world nation. everybody including prison per diem, i in danger because other people may take advantage of the situation. and so am you flat on top of the family? lead us the white house, lead us the claim lim, lid us prison. zalinski people have got to sit down. and by the way is the decimal . if you don't, there was she was friends of the checks nipple sheet with you. and in, with you see done in a while, get how the world war one more to ended. you know, what did it. but today we can talk with people. but when you go on, you know, you,

you think you something that has been gone for a buy a car for the children on both sides of the fence. these are all the children that don't, does the book called and quite close the door by shallow. the dawn with shades, if ever by both washing any painting people you all belong to mrs. i called dad, so not only our past, but also our future, but we have to live in there. thank you very much for your with them. i hope i have a stamp on this. but for the children live to school. there just conflict. thank here, it's our viewers for watching hope this year again, next week with me.

ah . ah, he point in walk is full net a nuclear power plant in the country, south controlled by russia. the 2nd time in 2 days, it's talking fresh space potential is also care about the western media pressure. and i'm, if the international into thing story, it's report exposing the use of human shields, ukraine's military. but the n g o says it will still hold it down in revelation is where like fountains, its military operational, again, he has a hard grouping's office. these spots home full of hearts, at least 41 people.