ah, ah, it when i was showing the wrong one, i just don't know. i mean you have to figure out the state because the african and engagement it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. a a

hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered non peter labelle, kelvin. it's western backers got some truly bad news. last week, amnesty international says ukraine's fighting tactics endanger civilians. zalinski and his gang are not the innocent victims media claim was we hear a lot about a big offensive soon. well, will it be ukrainian or russian? ah, discuss these issues then more i'm joined by my guess, jordan m u l e. in budapest, he's a podcast or at the guy which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow we have to meet 3, bob and she's a political analyst and editor. and you know me, internet media project or gentleman cross top rules. and that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. right. good,

that's good to me. can government was very disappointed with the international reports and claiming that the, the be grading, are you using violating the rules of law of war and, and could be potentially deemed as war crimes. and then, and the international bought back and said, you know, after all of the criticism, because if you criticize the government it's here i came to being an apologist the racist transpose just about anything. you can imagine the limits here. but if you've been borrowing independent media, the claim that the internet, or maybe we've known this from day one, it's not a surprise whatsoever. what is a surprise? is that a western n g? i would have the courage to actually say the truth, your thoughts? oh, that's right, let me walk in. ukraine has been a liberals, a war which means that not only do we have on one side and

the it was victims when you have absolute evil on one side. absolutely good on the other. and of course, one side is the victim of on just quite an unprovoked. what was that to say? i always that always on the back. and so when amnesty comes along, as you say, the, the stuff that we've known from stuff which is that the ukranian forces have been using as military bases, schools and hospitals. then that of course, calls the whole equation to question. so that's why the most furious onslaught has come from liberal media outlets such as the guardian, which you naturally, you know, did highlight all the stories from ukrainian government official, includes the american and british government of actual nonsense. this is

a very poorly researched report. the, the am, is the people on the ground? no, absolutely nothing, but a saying, well, we've known all along, they're using schools and hospitals for reason in order to draw retaliatory fire. and why do they want to draw retaliatory fire? so they can then point to rushes, asking, making all kinds of media and the rest of the plate along the left repeating ad nauseam that the russians are committing walk right. when i, we know that they deliberately, i mean this is when they deliver to them plenty of other places where they could have had military bases. and then they went to school. when that school was destroyed, they moved to another school to get 11, hosted with another little. so that's, that's their tax. they did. this is neither places where they want to locate. so naturally when this equation russians are absolutely evil,

ukrainians are absolutely shatter. then all hell breaks loose it with every passing day. the reality is infringing upon the propaganda. this is the most propagandistic war we have ever seen in our life. i thought iraq was about, but this is much worse. and so i just have been, you know, the when the curtains bull back you see a very different reality. and that's why these people, they have their hair, it gets on buyer because you're not supposed to say that you're not supposed to even think these kinds of things. but it's, like i said with george and said here is that this has been very well documented. if you really want to know, you know, natural didn't just come across something unusual. i came across something very common place. unfortunately, i had well, this is the most frustrating thing about this, all the russian media and excuse me, the local media in us then have been reporting about these thousands of thousands

of times during the fight in, in march, during the fight. and in several years, they all was the ukrainian forces keep using kindergarten and schools while they are military bases. and there was blank food ditch and there was 0 dance and bait to that in the west. so the, for me of the more tried to be in is that if you want to attract attention to your death, to the risks of your life, you have to go to these people groups because i can see that these people, hypocrites, you know why i saw they are press one, for instance in moscow you the 9 is the thousands and thousands times to be frank with you, you know that the language used by amnesty international about the war in change. not about the way it was very keep it or i mean i don't like these people. i hate the general language that they use, but they are the only ones who can attract attention. the was just doesn't b,

a are there going to is ations the west? don't believe it's opponents. so the only way you can attract attention is by wanting to these people. and this is not the 1st time you know, human rights watch in 2014 report at the use of class communications by the brain forces. i'm closure. 2014 ukrainian government was use class to munitions. this is from human rights watch. this is again, the was a war and may amount to crimes. this was documented at least 14 times in the nav. this was documented by the international committee there at ross who was killed in october, a use of cost of munitions. so i remember when this report came out, how the western media try to push it up. you know, of course, you know,

people don't. yes. were very enthusiastic about it because jesus, for the 1st time the western meet a stand out and, and the media. there was a lot of criticism. and as you human rights watch, just like amnesty international, had to balance it with a lot of reports on, you know, crimes committed by the other side. so, i mean, for me, the most frustrating thing is that this is something, this is something obvious. something that you don't have to be a specialist to see if you see them anywhere in the grade and all the international . finally reports of there is some of that weight. and mr. williams, he gets angry at the head of that, i missed the international ukrainian euro song because you suddenly leaves saying that their use of cracked up to be different from the amnesty international values

. now, you know, you need about themselves and the mediately she has to resign because jesus, they got no just the software or russian speakers. oh, then watch, you know, you know, george, i mean, i guess it's kind of an interesting juxtaposition, you know, being on the cover of vogue magazine and amnesty international. i guess you kind of get your pick as it were here. but that's just the point. you know, isn't it? i mean, it's not, you know, the, the suffering of the people. all people suffer on the ground. very wars. ok, let's be honest about that. ok. but i mean, this western media, propaganda pits, you know, i mean, how many times, you know, we've seen situations like this that they make it on the cover of vogue magazine. i mean, they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't and of course, i didn't do the lensky any good at all because that was even too much for the biggest fan. but they're going to go back to the sea into these international

humanitarian organizations. they are part of the western propaganda machine because they are there to demonize the foe of the day. you know, whether it's that i was saying in the ninety's it was loss of age a. it's only right. yes. the russians each actually that, that, that they, right, these are both of these people are actually months as a command or, and if you look at how these organizations fund themselves, they, a lot of very wealthy people, n foundation, george soros. and i was, you know, give them huge amounts of money. i mean, these are lavishly funded organizations. the people who are on the boards of these organizations are all former politicians, former government officials, for intelligence agency. and i'm the, you know, this is bothered, you know, was a reputation,

but occasionally they want to balance things. and so let's say 10 reports that human rights watch publish is about the horrors, the russians above the trade. once they might say something about negative about what the gradient just tell us is one. but even that one publication as a whole hell breaks loose. ready and then there's an immediate attack saying, you know what, this is, you know, you don't know what you're talking about. you're drawing equivalence between aggressive rules and fictions, and often happens. they need to have to start backing away now. so i'm listening to run by this guy and not hasn't done so, and she does have a certain reputation because she was the person who wrote that report about the this assassination of really general. so the money and she said that was essentially a war crime. so she, she hasn't back to way as yet, but i think that would be further repercussions with, well, keep it on,

you know, you know, it was a lonely call in the words about why don't we investigate ukraine's all the guards . again, everyone you know, runs in shivering. you know, you can't do that, you know? because, you know, we still have more and more money being bored in. we don't know where it's going, nobody really knows where it's going. we don't know who has all the codes and all of that, but it seems to be disappearing. i mean, but no investigation of people that have no criminal history. well, again, ok, here you have these do police, this eula language. why don't we investigate you, graham. oligarchs, why don't you investigate american already got, you know what the, what all of our is it is. you know, it's just, it became effective. if you don't like somebody who is reach you, human only got right. and this is the only way this machine can operate the way. i

mean, these people are very rich and they're very unlike book they can work together. exam. i mean it's, i'm sorry, 2 minds meal starting soviet union. someone who yesterday was a respect the official like you guys are in tomorrow because the paper, school deviation, you know, and left. his deviation for right is deviation. suddenly he becomes a criminal and anything can be able to get, you know, the same story here and the one george said, you know, this is the one, it's not the one, it's 100 to one and steel. these people cannot tolerate any criticism. again, it reminds me of the times of the soviet union and not in favor of today's west, because look in 62 a soviet magazine we are published. these are these roles. walk by alexander, silver, newton, the one day, the wife denise it. and immediately, you know,

why did people believe people all the them believe in started regression? well, the saw me, it's a soviet magazine. the song it on us about it. i got to read it real estate. ah ah

ah oh, welcome out to crosstalk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. i ok, go back to go to storage and change gears

a little bit here. we've heard through official media, corporate media that the trainings came in. they're getting a $1000000.00 man army together and there's going to be a big fan. so, um, i think there may be an offensive this mom. i tend to doubt if it's going to be the ukranian one. but i haven't theory about it. it's kind of going to tell us what we said in the 1st part of the program. this is actually a fundraising event. this is the, you know, their fund raising. you know, we're going to get it offensive to get there. you know, if we need support, we need money more, more money, more money. and that's what it seems to me. that's kind of like a powerpoint presentation. you know, there's a because from what i can tell me if i'm wrong, they haven't really had one significant strategic goal. big 3 in all of this. go ahead or yes, i completely. i mean, i think that the ukrainians, a government essentially trying to get more and more money out

of the united states and, and they're doing it by going on about how they get amount this huge offensive. and, and, and it's something that works because, right away the media report this on the upcoming events, that if you really are planning and offensive, the one thing you don't do is, you don't publicize it, you know, you don't tell your opponents, you're about to attack them and then get them to move their forces and be ready for your offensive. i mean, that makes absolutely no military sense whatsoever. you know, the media report seriously is coming offensive in person. and then once the rush is defeated, then hope campaign will be actors. and yes, and sure enough by just another $1000000000.00 worth of and i'm you offensive and that's the way they need to maintain the stance that they're

somehow on the brink of winning this war. because otherwise, lead americans and everyone else are going to stop. ask the question, where is this going? how can we go on essentially depleting our own cameras on sending them weapons? we don't know where, what's happening to these weapons. they don't seem to be any good because you know, the, the moment we sent you 1000000000 dollars worth of weapons from somebody, we need another 1000000000 dollars. what is happening? so they have to keep doing this in order to keep those channels going indefinitely. they may be giving money, seems to be an excuse for everything. ok, good money will solve everything. but considering over the past few months, the amount of western arms in a monetary it hasn't had any impact whatsoever. so throw more money at

it. you know, this is something that is really hard to comprehend. i personally think this is my personal opinion. is that the campers in there, they're just trying to see if they get as much as they possibly can before they have their moment of reckoning. ok. and so we, i make reference to the afghan president in his helicopters, leaving the country. you get my point as well. i think this is a disaster situation where we have our control for money, corrupt officials in your grade. and we have people in the united states who basically failed with all of their predictors. but of course, you in charge of saying in weapons and money, you know, just last week the german press reminded us, or mark me, you know, i handle the joint chiefs or star just 2 weeks before there are some special operation began. he predicted that there be a war, it would last for 72 hours. the russians would take even 72 hours and then there

would be a long, protracted green fight. you know, everything happened bank 100 percent different. you know, the ukranian army was not able to pay, but i get, it continues to fight or there is no good. we were all on the 30 of the process control sort of very simple reason. the ukranian army is fighting so well precisely because of the crew to the regime. if you don't go to the army, you get arrested. you go to prison. if you say something against the government now, you know, look, a member of the shooting chemo ukraine was, was basically assassinated. you shot dead by the great insecurity force on the suspicion on the suspicion on the trail. so basically these are very truly the army fights on the 3rd to switch this regime controls when this really leaves, like on the 3rd,

your don't boss on that there are. so people leave completely different life and try to forget, you know, about this regime. they won't be afraid that they would come back. that's true. they're freight. they will come back, but there is no reasonable. it's not against that. you know, the problem with the united states is that it fights was, it starts worse in so many parts of the world. but finally, these people get confused. you know, they confuse against them from green yugoslavia, vietnam and the other things. so about answering your question, they let me play and all these wars been the same air condition office in a suburb a that's a sad reality. yes. but basically what is really dangerous, it's not just the loss of money. it's that danger, always glacier. and in that sense, there was a pretty interesting article in the economist last week, which was headline, what would push the russia to nuclear war?

and basically of the dollars that he saw, the change in a few years of the states. you know, when all of the predictions failed and will be, became a war of 2 armies. suddenly the united states reviewed its position and starting from april, they started sending very dangerous weapons right in since june, the position is not the rule not to let you create moves. we're not going to it. ok, you know, like we don't want to bring to win because obviously the goals which is against the state that i'm realistic, you want all the time to back. and she speaks about a striking at russia. louis, this is all, we don't support that, but we don't want to grade to do those. that's a very broad definition. i mean, they use little, that's not a military strategy. that's a, it's not a political strategy neither. so as an article and they want to just answer with a very good book that i will use here on the quote to shannon and call them

a school said that launching into what is not the sharp edge of a cliff. but one can stand firmly look down and decide whether or not the punch, rather, it's a slippery slope. and no one can be sure when the risk is the greatest, you just like know, without longest and how it's like a basically a war between russian april. ok. well that's a really modern mili has other issues. ok, i suppose you would want to fight or will, you know, george? everyone knows that ukraine for a while has been wishing to get into nato. it's part of their constitution after all. and then you know, after the conflict started, they made a desperate attempt to get into the you. but on both accounts, you know, your perspective of the conflict. you know, the biggest strike against the crane was corruption. but suddenly that strike is, is, is not meaningful. ok, and then that's what it seems to me. this is an amazing risk to con job. that the,

the west is more than willing to go along with at the expense of their own people. you cannot, if you go in mainstream, you cannot get you in the base energy security in europe and security around the globe. and because they, this is this kind of a mirage of what, what they want to have that it's literally a raj, it's going to, it's going to be so many people around the world, particularly in europe and energy in a very, very sober hard way and very very soon, george, you know, it is a remarkable fact. it's, as you said at the expense of their own people, because nowhere in europe or in the united states has the people spoken out in favor of getting involved in ukraine. there's absolutely no support for this. it don't, these poles and in the none of the polls, is there any interest at all in getting involved in your brain?

so this is entirely or war waged by the lease whose life very comfortably. they were very well remunerated. they go to very nice party conferences with lavish entertain. they want to continue this and when you asked them, yes. but what about shorter just what about energy shortage is we're going to happen this winter. wow. you know, the price of freedom, you know, is something that we have to pay. you know, freedom is a free of the buying. so they're happy to sacrifice others just as they're having a sacrifice the ukrainians for a war that they can win. so happy to sacrifice their own public for a protracted conflict in which the public is impoverished. and when somebody comes along to challenges where they go or by again, he's only challenged in a very mild way along with nato and the sanctions on condemnation,

russia. but he does say they've got to think about also a little bit more easily get them to reject. and you know, we will wait for what's going to happen in italy because i think it's quite likely that kind of italian populace right will come to power sometime in september and it will come on a hearing will about elicit payments and all the stuff that we know how day you break the consensus that this war has to be full in? definitely a turkey, he's the one that says, you know, he's, he's 30 comes up into the k maker. i mean, everyone is going to air on right now, because he's a member of nato and aspirin for the you. and he's just wanting all of his quote unquote ally. so he spent a very lengthy trip in, so she came out smiling and was making himself a broker here. and so again,

challenging the united consensus against russia, it's again, it's propagate and finish up the reports. oh yes, i mean the air go morally, is not that very good character, certainly is long as we say, rush, a hero my role. but he's a great magic person in the world ruled by a lady all that is ready to sacrifice europeans. not only people who are areas of the world, but you are being so operate from their 46 now. and they, these people are ready to sacrifice them in this world. as a bread me just sob stands out was if you're really, he's better than the sole moral people in the, you know, and that's what it takes these kind of complex here you see who's ideological, who's not, who's pragmatic, what policies, work and policies that don't work and the way i know that, you know,

a year or a gentleman that's all the time you want to think. we get some good here in moscow . and i want to thank you for watching us here. are the remember oh, ah, a with with you. i'm with

a, with with

with a hope that i see a

.