a fashion has ever been a problem in more than a praying, a modern day. who remember who i did was there was a nazi but i do, i do not know enough about you know, the politics of a claim today to be able to respond to it. i must say that, you know, this sentences sounds very strange to what the western is and even here and it's the way we have a population a, i think, you know, if i would have to advise mr. put in, i would advise him to use a different sentence to justify his the now can i brought in this out towards the issue on now says because i think the ip address

on, on 2 pillars of why me i, you know, exceptional or secret nature of any given and the 2nd i thing is the, this issue of the, of the end of history that history has some predetermined more. and as we know, people are, was trying to bring that about. is that a concept that is being reliable? not only, let's say in ukraine, but also more broadly movies that you consider most of the chosen people. so, and nobody, you know, saying that this is any of those and that's it. but you know, many nationalities, things out. and so this is about the low nationalism. and again, i think that it, this choice of who owns it or not is

a best one. but a, you mentioned that the just consider themselves the chosen people that you're not trying to impose your way of life. and you're quite restrictive about who can join your, your people's rules for that. but when we look, let's say in the american constitution, they not only define themselves as exceptional, but also see themselves as a the ultimate judge, almost the replacement of god. i wonder if this russian, american rivalry over the years is partially spiritually based over whether one country can be the ultimate just what, what is good and what is evil in international affairs? no, i refrain from making normative judgments. but it's, you know, every church believes it and it has a direct line to 2 guns and

a christian it though. so america it, which is actually becoming less and less. so it's not the different form of, i will know when that was in the center, not the specialist was also the church in russia, but they believes that is that a viable and it's all in design. you know, it's coming back. absolutely. but i think any cell conscious nation wants to build its own, you know, have only jerusalem and that's for sure. but i think very few nations, in fact, only one nation please that you know, this is the one you know only have only jerusalem. you know that and the russian also allows for the multiplicity of gardens. the question is whether the americans are ready to leave even after these ukrainian crisis,

whether they are ready to accept, then they can be multiplicity of developmental pass in the world. and that not everything and not everybody will play tune i want agrees that so is the missionary stain in american foreign policy. and this is why we have those complaints for democracy and the campaigns for human rights, which actually blue ridge, national interest of the united states. and this is part of america and 0, some positive sinks about it though some negative things about it. but this is towards that, so is a mesh mission of israel, sometimes in american foreign policy and which is not prismatic. when you displace too much of this type of desire will be moral and imposed. it's

morality on the hello. now and one of your articles, you pointed out that you korean experience being last one on one as you put in ruth, less russian neighbor. i will reinforce israel's believe in self protection doctrine, that in the times of crisis you can only rely on yourself even if you nominally have very, very strong ally. do you think israel will be the only country to draw? that's lesson or do you think there will be more countries that will stop relying on hooley, on, on the power of american to turns? i think we see in the middle east to clear with development in that direction because americans are signaling or the so we have ministration. obama tom and there's a by nurse questions that they don't want to be as i may please. they want to

retreat and to focus on the chinese challenge. and as a result of that, her as outgoing feels particularly among though. so that boy will do seen countries said so when the man was out the shield against the ha, no, why don't i do so? and as a result of that, of course we see and the alignment was excellent. and but is well, definitely has the self reliance. milton from the very beginning, this is also a jewish experience. and i am at a disdainful, says a, you know, zone i, investor guarantees on up the world much and i think same king as made the mistake hoping that the west will until been on their behalf. and despite those a hell, said the worst case providing to claim, but no single american soldier cost the same crumbled. can i also ask you about

your a because your after very long pass, this is spell and now seems to be more willing to invest into its own designs. perhaps even a sense. and that is very visible in germany. germany very dramatically rose and expand the truth. is that something natural to be expected or is it something to be well worried about that in historical hindsight, a made a mistake of the end of the call believing that they are going into a paradise. and those are national security problem, so will be sort of after the defeat, those soviet union. so of course that whole thing. this is a awakening. pull you up. i'm not sure i don't get to a less and maybe it will fail, you know,

is this dilemma between the and guns i may fail to be, but those are those in use. the money for guns, but this room has to be seen but clearly. so there's a change of attitude in your, in many or countries in on is a show for national defense. i guess it's my final question a, you mentioned this choice in butter and guns. and clearly there is also an economic damage that's coming to all sides from a very harsh sanctions introduced by europe and the united states. you mentioned before that your ultimate test for foreign policy is how well it serves national interests based on that, the policy of sanctions is good enough for the europeans because it seems to be hurting. not only the russians only the europeans, but also much of the much of their will. that has absolutely nothing to do with,

you know, a, all the arguments didn't rush into, well, no, we're really economic sanctions. we're really successful. and oh, america, i the sanctions against iraq against cuba for many years and didn't change behavior of the g, a country. so i need to suffer. and to pay replies for continued was our policy a, i don't really much if for as the sanctions were changed, i was a calculator. so fashion leadership and of course the may still be seen. we shouldn't forget that as assumptions how those those are with the europe in particular is dependent on russian n, o g, a russian weight. so it is so, you know, in every world we have 2 equations. one can cause a mold damage,

but also another equation was the countries that can take a most hopefully you know, for looking at history. i think her show is displayed their willingness to a cost full well, what it believes. it's too well. i agree with you, but i also think that russia definitely has showcase capability to suffer a lot. but it also has demonstrated a willingness to reach some sort of a compromise with israel. tricky or many other contentious neighbors and partners. i hope the west can also learn from that a possibly know why they've outcome will be the people on the station. oh, okay. is there a way that he's not going to join,

but they don't think so. russia miscalculated is a competent. so if it's military forces and that will 2nd phone, you know, it's more polco crane by then no one said, you know, one more piece. it's ok. so maybe this will be, they'll come in maybe, you know, like, you know, washington well, of the time being we have to leave it here. thank you very much for your insights. you're welcome and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week on will's apart with.

mm ah, l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such short or is it conflict with the 1st law. and just in case we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to great truck rather than fit with the various china with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with ah, ah

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a one of the most generous and most trusted western concept, even with a conflict in ukraine rekindling the old dispute volunteer right them, they're both sides of history channel russia and the west meeting somewhere in the middle of that i'm now and join by for president of the jerusalem institute for strategic studies. professor invite great to see you. great to talk to you. thank you very much for time. my pleasure. you wrote recently about the seemingly existential political need to be perceived as being on the right side of history. if we tried to put the apology, central began to out of it and look at it from historical and perhaps psychological

perspective. what time do you need this righteousness? i don't believe it right. side of history, basically is the history is written by the victim of the walls. and good narrative remains is a few. jo is the ones that is defined by the victim. by the way, hitler was not a big boy. if you would have to put more attention to the nuclear ratio, no longer that you might have been the victim. would it be so excited about that? now the tensions between russia and the west, especially over ukraine, have been building for quite some time a couple of years that know decades. and yet when i interview western experts, they always point out that the russian actions in ukraine, however disagreeable they may be,

are totally unprincipled. this totally unprovoked, totally coming out of the do you think that's a delivery? that's the station, or is it a genuine blindness on that part that they somehow missed the last couple of years of the very 10 years relationship? it's been our size. i can understand. so for security dilemma, somebody that tries to defend himself and accumulates both military power to defend itself. at the same time, the po jake is sent to its name. so this type of situation, saline i, i definitely understand the russian a desire for larger mileage is the security a we have to remember that nato expended is 12 close, so wash and both a when it was promised to the company, knew what else at that time so, you know,

this will not happen i, i'm pretty sure that the, not the doesn't. how about any offensive inventions, but there's the same time, it's really difficult to dismiss the feels over russia and to have historic feel. so renovation from the, from the west. so this is precisely the problem of a security dilemma or in borough, i'm you from here from west next prison, right. nathan doesn't harbor any explicit intentions. these are the russia but, you know, looking at some of the recent actions by major members in libya or in syria, you know, me making, they were not intentional, but they have not the last. i mean, is it really so crucial to, you know, have these written as a statement of purpose that does not once you attack russia rather than, you know,

receiving from the reality perspective and seeing what nature members have done militarily in recent history. i think essay lashes had been understanding was obama and well, i mean, we slipped the lessons than in libya and silly, i think by the russians, justly or not as it is a middle east. so they think that their belie to intervene. that is, americans disagree. and instead of sitting down and trying to divide, you know, divide zillow, this is the obama, this is my palm and her di to coexist as it was doing the coastal. and i think i am there is a understanding in the west on how to run

a foreign policy. they become a deliberate or heavy illusion. say about what the international relations please. and this result of that army misperceptions on both sides. now i take it from your writing that you take the full film of national interest rather than morality as the ultimate measure of any policy you wrote that and then we'll be hearing that no country is allowed to gamble on its very existence. and i think that's pretty clear and how israel conduct itself on the international stage. but if we look at the ration from that perspective in russia, have a choice and then to act militarily with ukraine becoming increasingly militarized and increasingly hostile to russia. this will allow him to clarify, a country has no white, no model to commit suicide. and so for

a test to act upon its intern us international, it's national interest. there are always choices, though he's a choice to surrender or so. so i show obviously as many choices and they chose a to defend its national interest in ukraine. and then this was following the silliest owning it, but i didn't take it seriously. and. busy i'm not making any judgments any more judge . i can understand their behavior overstayed. so once we have a large amount of use of to kill it this way once a week. and then i would like to point out that it was to some extent that was all caution when you leave next to a big bear like russia. yes, because that's all i have

a chuckle about russia. russia being there. i think we're a little bit more civilized than leaving, but you know, in that's the perception. so be, i want to ask you about a country. where is that the addition of using phones? now if you can obviously go, yeah, absolutely. and israel is also is by being much smaller, it's also a country that takes in survival very seriously. and you are definitely not shy about striking targets on the countries territory. and i think to some extent, israel, of course, projection projection relies on its adversaries knowing that some sort of retribution is inevitable. so i want to ask you whether you think that the drastic actions that she's now taking in ukraine is that there at least partially

conditioned on the russian being, has a, tend to flip all as to your math and for way too long. have russia reacted earlier and more forcefully when the current prices have been avoided? doing things it could have been by yeah, i really bye bye not to states paying attention to russian security concerns a or so by yeah. z huberts. oh, fuzzy, crenan, leadership and not the understanding that there are certain anxious may go vocal russian sensitivities and death result though we have no, it will deny which is not the really nice thing. people who lose the lives, cities are destroyed and but this is this spelt of wall now

within western camera, israel has a very interesting position because it tends to whoa last side, many western resolutions condemning russia's behavior, but it is also non dismissive of russia security concerns what the israel's game or the israel or rationale in this company is a national, honestly clue. oh no on hand. we are, you know, dependent on the, not to say what, what they call a free will. and then we are going to want to be american care on the other hand and not file form. well i leave, am 0 sion sammy in syria. and though we reach an agreement to coordinate to our military actions, there was a very minute action against any intelligence, which is something which is extremely important to his national security. and we

want to make sure is that this so called the nation a continuous, which is dependent upon a russian goodwill in the national interests. and so we try to balance our no participation in, in what's called a western can it with a stick position. this a v n a which is a neighbor and to have to take it into consideration. we are not acting idealistically. i think the general outlook cove is really fun policies and quality . as a result of that, we are trying to balance those through interest, which is not going to be on india is doing the same amount of company. so doing the same with the loan in what you call this game, a new book. and you have to take into consideration,

it's national interest. and when we act this unit, you mentioned russia presence in syria, and i think one out of country to mentioned here is turkey. and i think you would probably agree that in syria, russia was both firm and accommodating. it was respectful of both turkeys and israel's central security considerations. but it also could be power on some of the actions when, when they deemed them. so that allows me to conclude that at least with israel and turn to interior, russia has learned how to differentiate the various uses of power and why didn't weren't the same way with your brain. because of i agree was there was a when they decided to intervene on a jeep into a situation. is wally,

unpleasant to go sailing. a new claim for basic is always know is currently those sheep. and which is that, and i would say to know, i do i shannon and namo it was ideal for being part of the view. it has didn't play a game. and as a result of that, and as i mentioned, this is one of these proposals we are witnessing now, since i mentioned turkey, you know, that it's a very challenging partner for both russia and these are especially under prime minister, and i'm at a prime minister. yeah. that's my mistake president. how could i forget that? but anyway, he's been a really with tom here. he's in powerful

way for quite some time and 2001. yes. and our countries have gone through the periods of acute crisis and very pragmatic relationship. and we managed to restore some sort of partnership after the very precarious incident back in 2015 when the church shut down a russian military just in syria which, which was taken in moscow as a, as a staff in the back. and yeah, it's worked towards restoring some sort of a pragmatic relationship. good serve as a model for, you know, future adversaries to that serve as a model for either russia and ukraine going forward, or perhaps russia and the way going forward. it's basically a minor and it is what we see developing is that is all again between the united states and its allies and the,

and i am and does a lot of times when i make i had a different leadership. and as a to con, please reach an account, you know, doing the keys in july. i differently the blows the flag says, united states done hybrid kissinger. at this times, it understands international politics, understands politics, and understands that sometimes you'll have to accommodate your lease there because they have ran national interest and day in international relations. unless you are extremely strong, you can get it in by. we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few moments station. mm. mm hm.

ah, with ah.

a mainstream narrative on ukraine get shaken up by the un, which would make that many more refugees have been crossing into russia than having west or the a you implemented emergency plan because last gas consumption by 15 percent to compensate for the any decline and australian presidential candidates, household, t, but europe, policy, its functions against russia is to play that excuse a freak. and that is what guarantee characterizes the european lea a south africa won't be pushed around. that's the message from the countries talk. diplomatic. it comes as washington tries to woo africans away.