[000:00:00;00] ah, [000:00:00;00] a and it's around. i think it's safe to say that indeed the most gay was an absolutely transformative experience to me. super positive. i absolutely loved it. i want to thank india i want to thank monica, i'm the organizes for making this real and i'm just hoping that next year it will be with us wrapping up our this our news coffee or an r t international. thanks for sharing some of your monday with us here at archie.

moscow. your news with ah ah, ah ah ah, ah, a ah with

ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross. well, things are considered on people about since the started russian special military operation. you crate it up and not it declares it must be independent of russian energy. well, at the same time, terrified moscow might terminate wise altogether for the e. u. energy policy is an ideological struggle. ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel in budapest. he's a pastor in the guy which will be found on you to the locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet bob and she's a political analyst and editor at you know me, internet media or

a gentleman crossed up rules and back. that means you can jump in the time you want . and i would appreciate it when i start out with georgia in budapest, georgia. very simple question. does the you have a coherent energy policy because it seems like, you know, and i don't want to use a heat metaphor, but i, well there their hair is on fire talking about how to deal with energy during the summer in the upcoming winter. they want to cut so dependence on russia, but they're terrified as i said in my introduction that it can be shut off. i mean, what is it? go ahead. that's exactly right. and so we have on the one hand, lion you, president of the commission, was that we are going to cut us off completely from russian fossil fuel. and we will never be dependent on them again. and then the next day she does around the uses russia, although withholding energy supplies, you know, holding back gas,

you know, and they using gas as a political weapon. so you awesome, well, do you want russian gas or don't you want russian? yes, you can get a straight answer. i mean, depends on what time of day you ask the question and this is really low point. they have been using russia for months and months of using gas as a weapon. when the only people will be using energy as a weapon, as in the, you know, i mean the, you know what they say by russian colon pause, then they say we're not going to have any russian oil in both starting in december . and then they closed down load stream to before it even started a grain closing off one of the house to transfer the russian gas europe. and then we have the, you know, the, the sanctions coming from canada when a compressor that was needed repairing was sent to siemens in germany,

germany center canada, canada. so we're not returning it because it's sanction. busy all the issues being driven from the western end of the propaganda is the somehow in russia is using energy as a weapon. when, when did that happen? well, a demon. i mean, the real political weapon here has been sanctions. the only thing that really changed with russian energy policy, visa be europe, is that the russian said like the base of started charging in rubles, which it makes perfect sense because of the sanctions and the, and then those swift system, russia being shut out. i mean, if they, if they continue paying in dollars or euro's, it would just be froze, it encompass dated. so i mean, that's the only significant change. and we all of the upper or over north stream one. well it's, it's back in business. ok. most of the gas is flowing again. i mean, it doesn't really make any sense to me what they want to do,

and there is no unity in the european union. so what is russia supposed to do? these of the, the, you have to deal with independent in the, in the, of the individual members of the you because the, you, as a whole, has no coherent policy. what say you the mom? well, i think sometimes you just lays all the stuff on just a very often they just use this phrase. butcher is using a gas as a wiper. they don't even have that political. so people have these. oh, terrible images. oh wow. wow. this is a terrible chris said in your, you know, so these people, i don't even in the way they express themselves. but you are right about the what i would collective incentives. the problem with you is that the

song smell is a lot less ration than every member they can individual. i mean all that most tragic more, please hold just you don't. so the, you are taken collective. i mean, the situation with russia is just the latest example, the experts in germany, for example, at the end of the conference. you know, he says that basically is always 100 percent dependent on russian guess. bulgaria is almost 100 percent dependence. this is india. it's dungeon. so even if germany seems to be going to provide for itself, who is thinking about the gary that's will make it right. the 2nd, the 2nd such example is syria. i'm in the and that's remember all the events or key . there were disturbances that were brought us in syria and 1000,

do ever so instead, all either stay neutral or how been off for find need or the role solution the you can elect to really support the position and we know the result. you know, the civil war, the gears. so all of them most painful students, you connect if you know i'm terrified voice, there's no collective though there's no solidarity here. george is in the country right now in hungry. they basically won't say it on this program bit. they went their own way. it was put it that way. george. yeah, no, that that's right. you back last week a foreign minister, b. c. i o flew to moscow breaking ranks with the rest of the you and signed the agreement with russia for 700000000 metric tons of

natural gas. did it? is that a hungry needs a gas as a well, we're not sharing any of those gas with anyone with a day off to the european commission issued this new dig that of demanding the all you member states reduce a gas consumption by 15 percent and that would be protests from a number of states including spain and portugal, and greece saying, well, why should we come back on our gas use? this is a german problem. it is very much of bob and boss of the way the germans do this. i mean, the germans make these big decisions and then they force everyone else to live with . i mean, casing point is of course the,

the decision of i'm going to market 2015 to start bringing in immigrants into europe, which everyone else or something of an obligation to say as well. have a peculiar understanding of solidarity, don't they? we do it. everybody else that isn't solid there? yes, that's the. yeah, exactly. and it back, it was germany that has been very dependent on russian. yes. and then he was germany that made these extraordinary decisions like canceling the stream too at the very last moment. and this is why the europeans are now saying, you know, a well, where was germany when we needed them off the 2008 crisis. 6 and we need a bailout. suddenly the germans say, well, sorry, we don't have the money to bail anyone out. so now is that the europeans are supposed to. ready bail germany as well. and also we had, over the last few days,

we had the threatening to shut a pipeline that was supplying europe that you know, that has been agreed to. and so, you know, again, this adds to the quandary here. i mean, russia threatened to cut energy, but it's ukraine. that is reckoning to cut off. russian entered the customers in europe. so i mean, went, where's the, where's the anger towards the ukrainians for threatening europe, energy security go ahead. doesn't make any sense. well, it makes sense. i was logically, there you go, that's made, but it may sound well for the, i'm sorry, it was. what was the ward all the states opposing to bond enrolled student to me. they said that these rush and get has to grow. so the grain will get russia said, oh, you know, we are wanting to continue to supply your brain. but that just makes sense to

have a bank. now that you get no, no, no way to deal with. now that there is basically this terrible confrontation within russia and ukraine. ukraine is charging some of these by saying that they have line what they call the occupied so i mean, rush to gain weight. even though it was doing, i think that it was the you that said the usual all rely, but your goal to do is eunice it, they may explain to our audience, what does the united states up into? what is your be in energy? can you like me? why do they poking their beek into something that is so important? we're not talking about, you know, the size of a condo here. we're talking about people going to be warm in the winter. you're

absolutely right. united states has not to do with this russian drummond pipeline. i mean, what we'll do is say rush said with a pose a pipeline from canada, united states. but we, in fact jo, wire them has been doing it for us, brilliant to, you know, and he created the programs in american life. but we never even thought about raising any questions about pipelines. could be mexico when tonight the canada united states and that these things lead has the right to, you know, to pronounce judgment on russia. also don't project to impose sanctions on the companies participate in it. and before that, they're not as they sabotaged and walked against south board, which was basically a supply and cheap gas to gratify grease and reset it. well, in fact, part of the problem with white, reese had this terrible crisis. it could be

a waste if they had the right, well, it would be so for you. but it was the you, the, you were paying commission and a great extent the united states that basically did everything. but the sauce team going never comes a door with. i guess my question is, when a rhetorical is the united states, have to be with european energy security. well, it's all about money. they want them to buy american energy, which, you know, is being fossil fuels are being attacked in the u. s, but there's only one outcome here, a higher price. so the europeans, when they get up and cheap russian energy and paper very expensive gulf in american . and wow, that's a brilliant move, isn't it? go ahead. we go. yeah, it is. of course, it makes the europeans very uncompetitive. i mean, you're already has problems with keeping up with east asia. but now the one thing that they had,

which was very reliable source of energy for now they've given that out and they've done it on the american pressure. the conflict in ukraine has come under american pressure. the americans who press the ukraine membership into native americans continue to provoke and to provoke and basically your business. a little hard breaking up on some real estate market. ah, ah

ah ah with ah, welcome back to all things considered. i'm here labelle. this is the home addition

to remind you, we're discussing some real ah we'll go back to d. m a here in moscow from centrally when we look at a conflict in ukraine, at least for the west a they, they won't say it out loud. but you know, it's not about freedom, it's not about the mob not about territorial. that's all, that's what we keep hearing on the airways. but it's really about energy here and not fossil fuel energy. it's all about green energy. and ukraine is being used as a segue to push the transition. this is something that, you know, this is a gleeful about it. they're gleeful about because they don't have to bring it to their people and vote on it. they'll say it just because, you know, rules based order and all of this type of stuff here. but at the same time, and this is what i need to explain,

they're opening up whole mines again and are well, main natural gas maybe isn't so dirty here. i mean, what are their priorities here? because if they, on the one hand, you know, it's, you know, territorial integrity. on the other hand, it's re new deal. but they keep interweaving in clashing with each other and they can't make up their mind. what is their priority dema where i have, i would say not the privilege but the duty. ready to read the warning german press, i'm just read it so we don't have to thank you d a d b side the you know, they the right that 62 percent of the germans for the government's advice and now the work themselves a few times a week and a for alissa. ok. 162 percent of people already believe these crap. and you know, the way that the government is dealing with people in terms of why you have to read, you know that the temperature also you have to wash read. i mean

that these people, it use russian general period but we know what he told you the difference between a darian and to put it in a say, ok, don't publish every day, just on your president. i 30 days you say, how else with what, which theatre ways you could go to which books you should read, you know how to educate your children. so in this situation, during our walks su, but to put it there in state, they tell their people how hm what, what is one for their house? there is a very, very strange theory. now that washing, but it also makes is bad. and is just the plain and the program with their in states is that they use ideology

against mass against mathematics. i mean, in gear force, which is a huge or very what magazine, one of their best interest of god, bush time, all the handle on the he just gave a mathematical analysis or what's going on. germany has 14 medium households. 20000000 of them are heated by guess. rational desk calls for 55 percent. how are we going to do without ok? so this is a mathematical question. then i know what it will answer. what ran it. worse for short periods of time, you know, don't use your car, don't use your i don't know. what else? yeah. go microwave. well, i mean, it smacks all the sudden even worse. well, i mean it, it, george, i mean a, is this going back to the 1840s? i mean, i'm, i'm, i'm trying to understand what's going on in the world is a super competitive police. but, and then we look at the europeans, you know,

i mean what, what is it, you know, pragmatism isn't ideology. can they marry the 2? it seems that they, they're, they're, they're, they're pushing things that are just diametrically opposed to each other. and the result is cold and lack of productivity and you know, the world passes them by a, some kind of backwater. and this is all done intentionally good. yes. is it shortly that there's been this seamless transition from lee cove is area. now the energy steering, i mean it's just you, you don't even notice it. so we was screaming at the, and the facts, the non mosque. whereas the people who were protesting against the lock down, you know, they were with them because they refused to express social solidarity. they were entirely selfish, and we were supposed to hate them. so now we're rapidly going to be moving into a new era with who don't want to share out the energy. i mean, i'm going to be really in the process. you know,

they don't want to share out the gas, and they can design their own deals with russia. and so this is now the and that everyone who is not going to be taking showers of a to long, you know, they're going to be the is, i guess that's a new thing. shower shaming is that the shower saying exactly all people, you know, watch the car, you know more than once a week. now it's only going to be a fall in be insufficiently of expressing solidarity. and of course, will be put in this. this isn't the how the, you know, this as the, the said, this kind of a j as well. no one ever really for the barrel was going to say no one really kind of a, you know, to the, from the mental questions about a know when we get on the mental question to what end is all this, why are we making the sacrifice?

no, you're just going to shop and just get with the program or else you know we're going to punish you. i'd like to be mindful thinking shot too long in the shower. we had 0 with 0 cove and now we have 0 fossil fuel. ok. niema. let me go to you. i mean, usually when these unusual and very strident demands of people, it's during a momentary crisis. okay. moment so you know, what i mean by that is that, you know, when the crisis will come to an end and you go back to, this is completely open engine and you start saving 15. if you're told to say 15 percent on energy towards what end, i mean it will that make the situation better? how alleviated they don't have any answers. there's no, there's no exit from this. it just seems it's going to be a cumulative, or they're going to be in the 40 percent,

then 60 percent. and the results will be the same. i don't understand what, what they're driving at what their goal is. go ahead. logical this. i'm sorry. if you go to any findings, right, something like this. oh, our people are paid by about 90 percent celsius inside their own lease. when, while people with russia have been through so many difficult, just march more like sustainable. so i mean this is difficult that they're getting well, the amy is so strong that and me can make any separate prices. that means that you should be making sacrifices. ok, 15 percent less. today's 20 percent less moral. don't ask why. well, if you ask us why, because you know, if you ask us, why did we support your greenwich spot into what you don't expect from us to these other people?

you know, we have to see places change. so we're not responsible for these people. did they taking their pants off? i mean, they're all, they're all nice, nice, nice groups. you know, i don't often was that budget, you know, via and also what is very important is you always require prices. and 2nd, at that it is, you always intimidate, you will all die from point. there will be an alignment. so if you don't listen to us and if you don't, or with cold water glam, it will collapse. you know. so basically let me remind you how people are basically broaden germans into, into what you said that we have not enough even space off. that is wrong. if we don't expand into years, we're going to die. that was a lie because germans on

a much smaller energy also that will to create that sustainable economy which fed up with them. but a segue is perfectly the last question i have for george here, you're right. we have the german economic miracle because there was cheap soviet then that later, russian gas. so, george, you know, on a global scale here, the global south is saying, you know, the europeans got really rich because they had access to very cheap fossil fuels, primarily oil and gas. so now they're looking, they're stepping up your plate, say, our turn we would like that energy to do exactly what the europeans had and what they are they willing to give up, but we'll make it in line. we'll take it. that's exactly what's happening. yes, yes. but the strange thing is that the europeans and the extent the americans are weighted to a ology that is propagated by the world economic forum and,

and ever. and it's not entirely clear what the deal is other than they want to reduce the population of the world. i mean, i, that's their agenda. and green energy somehow fills in with that agenda the, you know, as was the, the fear of and then next. and we'll go, hey, people having children or anything like that. so it's a part of the same things. are they using this, a crisis of ukraine, essentially to cock all use of fossil fuels and to move to these renewables. they know perfectly well. there is no way in the world that germany can continue to be an economic powerhouse relying on solar panels and. and when the pushing it and you have to think that based on how you're in the united states to be kind of this engine will grow. i mean,

they want to continue to be prosperous themselves. they don't really want to extend this prosperity to us. i mean, it seems, you know, the europeans want to set an example for the world that, that's something that we see here. and, you know, you know, eventually, you know, you will be carbon chain and you know, this country uses do what are, but you know, that, that will be, you know, it will be another reason for nato. it to happen be, are they being there for what bridge do? ok, but i mean, but it doesn't work logically because then they become less competitive. they become for the come more irrelevant. and so everyone, they, the learning example be don't do what they hear. it drives you to the ground, go head in the last 30 seconds, go to you. well, for a magazine smell radio spot, all in europe, extreme is all the groups not only about which are concerned about it, but also about energy crisis. so we're all extremely snow people don't. and 2nd,

there was one person who said that basically by this policy, europe is destroying and you would be in humane capitalism. that was a gross. yeah. i'm just go get him. so i'm, i'm not saying it on my own, but as i said, it would be good to go magazine. this is all, it's steve, this is always seem to back the, the o conspiracy theories. right? well, it will have as well, and you're at least a winter coming up. we'll have cold capitalism. ok. see how that feels? ok. go out. ok. i'm watching themselves a, digging further in to their problems. it's extraordinary to witness gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in budapest and here in moscow, i want to thank you for watching us. here are the remember up rules ah,

[000:00:00;00] for ah, [000:00:00;00] a news media was cards and like if you speak russian,