ah ah with mm welcome to well to part, regardless of its outcome, the conflict between russia and ukraine built for years, remain an open one between peoples. once considered themselves, brothers and wild fratricidal strife is as old as history. the confrontation over you bring may have given rise to a totally new phenomenon of instrumental eyes and cultivated hatred. who doesn't serve? to discuss it, i'm now joined by hamas crowds, professor of russian history,

ab torso, around university of sciences. in budapest, professor coast, professor christ, thank you very much for your time. i appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. hello. you have been researching russian and soviet history for a long time. and you've also analyze it from the perspective of russia's relations with the west. why was this perception of russians as bloodthirsty barbarians isn't a new idea? is it h o g is done? this is an old idea. yes. when you want to point the historical roots of fruits, a phobia full b, because i don't know how to go back to the 16th century just not just not the movie and stuff. what would it be? that was the time when bratia became in a way arrival to britain, and that was baghdad. the british empire did double billed,

seen up by since that period we have seen recess ho, been emerging time. and again, taking new forms and serving new goals. we're seeing that at the but invariably it have to do with the competition in the global arena soon as great powers confronted each other and thoughtful. all sorts of advantageous positions. some the global scene. ready his professor crashed as far as i understand any answer apologise will tell you that this kind of fit and demonize ation of the other tribe is a natural phenomenon. different. historically, humans have always full over sources, territories and power. don't you saying that given russia size and influence, it's essentially inevitable for some roost. phobia to match what i mean. and the same goes for sinner phobia america for b cetera. i need to be years of

course, old is different pho beers have existed and will continue to exist. but we must always look for the powers that promote based beau b. s. d g for golf course seal. we must see how much not by have the people of a given country or region experience how furiously if they are attacked bush's because most of they've spelled s b are not at all a grassroots phenomena not be made yet. for example, i was in berlin a few days ago, and i did not see any anti russian sentiment. when i talk to the people, yet nobody harassed russian speakers. i don't valley that it shut. yeah. although we know from german defense ministry reports, you get that there have been several 100 incidence arrows you including attacks and monuments and statues, et cetera. they did lonia,

let i. but this isn't to popular movement. yes, yes or no park room. so it's nothing like what happened during the anti semitic pogroms images and a sound a mean. so this is a kind of hate that have different routes. so phobia rissa pho, bears an organized top down phenomenon in it has always been that way on the evening yesterday. who yeah, yeah, i love you. so what you're saying is that from natural prejudice, which is inherent in, oh, nations for decent. yes, mr. selby is now being deliberately and purposefully transformed into to, for achieving specific goals. you come up with me. yes, this new type of bruce, of phobia by his part of the war and ukraine, you might, it's a means to insure cohesion within the collective western influence,

the population landing over the role of the media is critical. you know me any cut you get channels like c and then bbc, it sat right on one to name all of them. it's all on there for to demonize russia. we can see every minute of every day. that's easy. i was planning to say, if i understand you correctly, your argument is that some of the best progress, if mindfully i seen, you must have decided to exploit humanities. messy primitive instincts. i july via good net. why? what is there an game? he thought that would save comcast. i need to see a bit of emma who used to be you lap me, gave an example for the audience. and i used to live near that baby it. yes, you will. in the you, there is a top official in charge of foreign affairs by the name of joseph burrell. meely bought it o m m o,

he is anti russian to the corps and doesn't even deny it. and he, sad that russia must be defeated because on the battlefield. oh boy if b to b. stone hor, what is his agenda? it won't go. why does he talk such nonsense? he sunday. uh he is a man of tremendous responsibility. our pro. what are we even talking about today? a few days separate. i heard him say that it dawned on me why i was determined woman in her forties or fifties. speak to shell on z d f and major sherman t, the channel david bro, grandma, i was yes, she was from a younger generation. not the hitler youth generation. ah, julia gun know what she sad was so baffling. i even remember her last name. it was gal go your amelia does you i was amazed that

a sentiment like that could be expressed in the very heart of europe. you have roku . i'm not going to be. she spoke in favor of pumping ukraine with heavy weaponry. and her argument was that we should find the russians because they are a talking or a liberal and post modern way of life. you know, a lot you. so this woman, another way, a german citizen, once germany to fight russia in the name of european valley is not to leap. it was nice. but professor crash. my understanding is that the special has more than just a political dimension. it has also expanded into the realm of culture only nobody wants or yes, this is don in order to serve cultural supremacy over russia. that's why i gave you the example about german woman. this line of argument is simply baffling for

intellectuals to revert to some sort of racist or nazi. thea, rising to cultural racism, it is, i'm think about there is a massive risk for russia here as well. if it fails to handle these developments, roper, which i know that i'm very worried about rush his response. we must not go back to the 940 or 950 is back to the soviet anti gust my politan campaign, which was me, me got some. i mean, i think it's an important thing to understand that under the banner fighting russia, all of russia's cultural heritage, including the heritage of the 19th or early 20th century, is getting essentially cancel it. not for it, but that's all about that. but there are plenty of examples of this kind of it is happening. what can you tell us? which one shot you the most of the data lead solely bit. it was the 3rd tab in the base of liberalism. it charge me to see that it exists, but it's got to say,

i have a position and it's not the official position of the youth. for example, natalie word though i expressed that position. the pro store not been defeated was advanced. somewhere on the fringes, if i want to say i want the truth, i send for diplomacy in peace. this is a very simple position, but where can i make my boys heard? say you didn't have access to the media. you wasn't numbers if you want find this sort of athenians expressed anywhere in the media, notting, germany will not and call and let me know, you know, but i know what people actually think. i've been to many european countries lately . people don't want war. they believe in pace. they are against pumping ukraine with arms because these cannot be achieved that way miss the miss the meta mask. but instead of pace in negotiations, we've got crusoe phobia, or ukraine,

a phobia level. it works almost the same way on the other side. i mean is, is that less noisy? i'll have to disagree with you here, because i do not see this and t crane sentiment in russia, in part because we'll have family in ukraine. any guys nicholas? no, there is no ukraine, a f o b in russia. every night, no matter what the media says, we call our relatives to check how they're doing, so they genes, we worry about them all the time. so if someone says this, always easy on the russian people that to lie when we realized this is a heavy bad and i would even say great sin and some day we will have to pay for it . so the number of the black ink, noah, pro stamps, thought, but the thing is, the way i see it is that the west left russia, no other choice. good. well, that's the tragedy. or at least for actors involved rocha. i've already talked about the authoritarian phase of liberalism. it's been those they

claim that crush alone is responsible for the war that the conflict again and sample rate. 24 didn't double the war. started way before that you might lead time a historian. so i analyze phenomena from a historical perspective. they give you most of these more began immediately after the collapse of the soviet union delete the idea of breaking the russia part was a concept in the 3 emerged in the early 19 nineties in the works of a speak nap. but as in scale, it was a security advisor to several us presidents. i know, i guess since dan native has been expanding eastwards all the way sort of us now we are witnessing the backlash. what any of us, i think there is something to this conflict we having seen before. not one of the confrontation between russia and the west had indeed begun

a long time ago that way before the 24th of february 2022. 0, we have never seen any attempt to ban sikowski with those cs key until now. and that was with you may have heard the story about a 200 year old oak tree in t again of museum, which was banned from participating in the european tree of the year contests in order to exclude russia, organic tree. that was that, it, i see, you know, i mean, this is marana. evade and wanted their avoid or is there some kind of deeper meaning here? is there an underlying pappas or are people just losing their minds? went to law. if he is gone through a li, the goal is to control the population, the public opinion, many and to ready cade all other years. see years, laws need through games. oak has no right to exist in the west. will. people will want to know why you, me, bravo, will be it over or explain this, that you are

a told russians are evil people. i said they should be punished. my li, are you, are you still mother? he not. she already, they keep appealing to the sounds south poplar conscience to the ideal punishment. so this is glen, keep trying to implant and to people's minds. the idea that russian says are some kind of barbarians in lucy. therefore, european values must be abandoned in ukraine. that's why they pretend that ukraine as a democracy, even though they keep using these concepts as tools, what you must, you see while there are a number of democratic countries in eastern europe, just the majority. are authoritarian regimes done the it is she would all and for example or the baltic states. ready national a, been my own country, might you know what it is? very important that is offered the collapse of the ussr. we pacified our ideology,

little saying that we follow with the same development path as europe ever obisky butchered as weak base has same plane possible. you cannot build a board, you, i democracy without the pro democracy middle class. we'll just do this. who is going to build democracy? then i thought it would be all the guards said without any culture from scratch. doherty, what they did was concentrate all economic power in their hands through privatization . nothing more yet. we hear all these nonsense about european culture. well, for us across, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments they can. ah

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welcome back to well support with the mosque krauss, professor of russian history at the, at portion around the university of sciences. in budapest, a has a professor, i li, you mentioned the idea of appealing to people's consciences. yoga, it seems to me that the whole mark of russian culture is its complexity and depth walker. we're good on that as it appeals directly to the humans. so it's not the only coach to do that, but that it suddenly, it's distinctive feature in this, by me, cause it's a store. would you agree that these attempts to cancel? tchaikovsky to kenneth and dostoevsky are intended to keep western is away from russian culture. i'm glad that i was the middle school going to renew you like zod, the shortest so that it cannot touch their souls and let them see through the haze of not only the wrist, a phobia, but also the entire capitalist system. scuse me, like i bought out the basically squeezes the live out of people in some would save money to humanize as us. but with dr to, i mean, not be a good day, for example,

as that german woman was talking old. that nonsense saw the prism for olsen made a point. you just you sad that one cannot ignore that deep and reach russian culture. already. got dora, which represents the pinnacle of human achievement, abridge, old. yeah, dogs. you have to admit that because every one knows that store at that. so the harm is not as great as we might hear. people won't be filled. they, cecily didn't blame the west as over doing it. why some in the west are being over zealous in the way. they carry out the orders from washington and brussels. yeah. you have it among the intellectually lead side and see any one trying to directly target russian culture grow. man, you get to her. some may not wish to have conflicts with the russian scholars. and you might, you know, to my, i me, you could just, some may refuse to correspond with russian and black shoals at the saturate.

doesn't you there, but didn't the hatred as my dad's and goes. so deep as to warrant a man on tchaikovsky. org tolstoy, a law. and then i don't the old that kind of sentiment just yet. butch, i called a stove does yes, but you might enter 3, you know the mortgage yet jewel. so, you mean, it seems to me, there is something home, a superstitious or rich, inefficient back if movement to cancer russia. that means that you may remember the incident in sweden when a concept in support of ukraine was cancelled after the swedish musicians found out when the bell alike, as they were supposed to pray, were made in russia bell alike as good counsel. how crazy is that? this is magical thinking in its purest form. they think they are somehow helping the ukrainians by doing old ladies with old is russo foe beer. so can

a russian bella like her the ukrainians in any way? or should we get a hope that the superstitious approach will help generate more support? more emotional solidarity with the cranium. refugees, give me bad stamps. now. true. we have been helping the cranium refugees since day one. we are helping them to the russians are helping miss jackie. but people of all political views, all sorts of people are helping the yeah. those just yes, we either needed some money too. so all the hate against russians comes from the top. i've got 2 more, but maybe it's just the way i see it, but there has been a lot of mystical messaging in the dollar, but when the kremlin and the white house, when you got senior moment bill. and for example, pers putin and biden bring up god, a lot of all that also biden said some time ago that couldn't had no soul, which was quite

a strong statement. because we really do think that this conflict when russia and the west is defined merely by the struggle for geopolitical influence, resources is the right to decide who are the nation slope. i'm probably sides of the game will be or is it also a spiritual battle of some sort as well? yes. the teachers, these things do not exist separately, but it's very chilled the political envy, konami aspects all work together. but yeah, there is a global conflict going on in the us and the collective west one to restore there had gemini in the world even these up. but would you let me do this? they need to demonize each enemy that poses a real trap. like china, india, etc, but most indeed are in new factories, some of the global scene, and nobody really understands them. well. this is all about and new world order.

well, you see, nobody understands them, but i think in russia at least, i think i do understand them when you get here, who can watch the motions, you know, have a certain inclination for mysticism certainly. but so do the american sports weapon was sure we are really close in this regard? we'll believe we're the chosen people. so i'll give an example. cravett bon biden often denounces president putin to narrative speaks bad by the way, and biden is on a mission to fight russian all the god. god. if rudy isn't fighting against capitalism like, i do know he's targeting russian oligarchs. why isn't he fighting american oligarchs? what's the difference? a budget or ration oligarch? sorry, bad american. the oligarchs are good guys. he only got, he's got a she. and this is mr. c. as in its purest form. miss me,

how can one believe is your right one? can't. if one is a racial person, i usually go it's a matter of faith. you bring him nathan, me up, but i, i was struck by russian soldiers paintings that under the coastal scheme. son ancient slattich, latin meaning the s e i at the watching the m is that a finance cam will work. i thought i had my chad z m. luther's place, other meanings were land, nation people. i, that i'm not, not a what eat by, that it even denotes the human body in its entirety. i was, he will not here. i had to move for russian sits and next essential spiritual battle. look on. what about the west? when you might think, does it understand it's not just about ukraine, that is much more than that. as a boy. it will walk aviation. i thought i suggest, but i thought i'd be a rush you're going to ship is to let you know all day. you see the people at large

haven't internalize this yet. only some might understand the meaning called this letter go dog bud wilson power. hey, this latter is hailey, they are trying to ban it. can you believe is low di yanagishta banning a latter a place shine how is it possible? is that going to show this is the civilized world. so to say the west campaigning against the latter was up, but blue was a issue. there is a joke saying it's not a z landscape, but your landscape crazy. so mostly you asked why does that that has shocked me the most grassy these has. yeah. but as the look at the but us no, i guess a professor cries there might be some deep meaning to this yell at him. of the romanian philosophy and historian of religion mere charlie id gave it to me. i thought of his study, the connection between geography and spirituality. you're one of his most famous

wax, is the sacred and the profane. you name a point the on go i did he ok is there that when a home or a land loses his cosmological meaning to pass and i have yet to pass his body an entire existence also lose their spiritual and religious dimension was his 20 fours and a shy of 30 yours in the way beholden the smooth la. but don't you sing? said you've bryant agonizing, the west. russia is fighting globalization, lee, and the idea that a passage should be detached from the land, from the history of his ancestors. the idea of being free and separated from the historical setting, cultural and spiritual processes, all of them are processing. it's not i'm, i'm dia, globalization is the idea that you can be anywhere or saw in was it, which is you. if you put it this way is essentially against human spiritual nature, whose voice in an upper it's about ancient, the warmest give us no one,

you know, you had, you brought it yet. you know, i'm a historian. so i speak from the historical perspective in recent decades, globalization has brought about some tremendously negative consequences for all of mankind or challenges either from royal i think everyone agrees on that to de luca key. but what was the response to these neal liberal globally as challenges e, still noiseless? yeah, there is one seems to be that they decided they can dr. humanist and religious fillings and use them as a pretext to wage a war that actually has completely different real reasons of destiny. jealousy, subset this debbie. there is this issue of national south expression and eastern ukraine. this is the breo leash here junior la love us daughter, is that

a new grade? and they are near la roshi in as up next. this is also true for western ukraine that i see russia never said it didn't want an independent process in ukraine. what i could, i mean, it was, it did not want the country to become a ground to launch an offensive. what does it mean? you annisa my, they are and hushing up all of ukraine's problems. move up shows up, but look, group i got over. ready old, there isn't a single mansion of negative aspect, slight ukrainian, that says in western propaganda morley. i have one last question about propaganda. coincidentally, i was in his speech financing the start of the special operation in ukraine. president putin called the west the empire of life, c, y e in the area was re with them as i see it. that was a reference to preston rake and cooling the soviet union and even empire community to say that because i use it on them to ring. and what i want to ask you personally, not as a historian, owner, academic, but as a passing we,

do you believe that truth is power review that the truth always comes out sooner or later than with bacteria? glad. yes. the gala is lee. yea, be honest. there is like a king. if i were to lose faith in human kind and the truth my, my life would be meaningless. is i candidly without it you close? do you mind if i had them we on your domain starkey. and that's why i don't think generalized concepts like the west and the star legitimate lease, but they are too broad a local good as he is up a little bit. as you must talk when applied, they raised the diversity of the west, east and russia. they give rise to cultural braces, naziism, and rissa phobia analogies. instead we need to analyze the existing global and

regional systems if you want to eat, gave us was la business. you also you have to have a critical approach to capitalism. but yeah, i wish the best way to reach you you've otherwise it's impossible to so many crisis is a whether today or tomorrow. yes or no? yes, please. 0. well professor, i think we had a very spirited conversation. thank you very much for that. thank you. good bye and thank you for watching. post is here again on the well the part ah ah

lou. ringback because she knew spencer with buffalo new that was the name is us, are forced from national quito, which was actually due to a controller like from when you do, i don't but hold you a to go with the national anthem. a briefing at this, going to copy from wanted a voice,

a dick i work with over the past few weeks shorter thousands of additional fortune to germany and poland as part of our commitment to nato's eastern flying gallup. with using it, it be with becky implicitly. scattered, i mean we've so usefully issue mika, yourself live, not oh, shoot, what evening. no, she vote on those w is that much g e 's for more of mr. massey, i.