what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic, development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult. i'm time to sit down and talk with me and only welcome to all the part regardless of its outcome. the conflict between russia and your brain built for years, remain and open the wound between peoples,

once considered themselves. brothers and wild fratricidal strife is as old as history. the confrontation over you bring may have given rise to a totally new phenomenon of instrumental eyes and cultivated hatred. who doesn't serve? to discuss it, i'm now joined by thomas cross, professor of russian history, ab torso, around university of sciences. in budapest, professor coast, professor christ. thank you very much for your time. i appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. hello. you have been researching russian and soviet history for a long time, and you've also analyzed it from the perspective of russia's relations with the west. why was this perception of russians as bloodthirsty barbarians? isn't a new idea? is it? i thought you saw the faces an old idea. yes. if you want to pinpoint the historical roots of fruits of phobia, full b x because i don't know how to go back to the 16th century just

not just not the will be a struggle with it. that was the time when brush became, in a way a rival to britain died. that was back than the british empire. dental baby yoga seed up by scenes that period. we have seen rissa phobic emerged time and again taking new forms and serving new goals. seek at the but invariably it had to do with the competition in the global arena, says great powers confronted his shoulder and thoughtful. all sorts of advantageous positions. some the global scene. ready by his a professor crash as far as i understand any anthropologist who will tell you that this kind of fair and immunization of the other tribe is a natural phenomenon with historically, humans have always thought over. so says, territories and power. don't you think that given russia size and influence?

yeah, it's essentially inevitable for some mr. phobia to match what you me, i mean, and the same goes for cynthia america, for the et cetera. i mean, he's be an additional 8 years of the course sold is different. so bears have existed and will continue to exist. but we must always look for the powers that promote this phobia as you did you for god course cielo. and we must see how much not by hate the people of a given country or region experience how fearlessly they are attacked bushes because most of these spelled s b are not at all like, grassroots phenomena should not be made. for example, i was in berlin a few days ago, and i did not see any anti russians sentiment when i talked to the people, yet nobody harass trash and speakers school, but they said, oh,

we know from german defends, ministry reports again that there have been several 100 incidents or, or she including attacks and monuments and statues, etc. well, this isn't a popular movement. use. yeah. or a no call crimson. it's nothing like what happened during the anti semitic pogroms . send me, geez, i understand, you mean this is a kind of have that have different true king. so will be a chris, a phobia is an organized top down phenomena and it has always been and that way, i know who. yeah. so what you're saying is that from a natural prejudice which is inherent in all nations for b, c, just mister. so b as now being deliberately and purposefully transform into a tool for shipping specific goals. you come up with a gas,

this new type of re suppose been part of the war and ukraine. you might to, if you're but it's a means to insure a cohesion within the collective wes, to influence the population gladly more. but the role of the media is critical. you know me any catches get channels like c and then bbc, it sat right on, want to name all of them. it's all on there for to demonize russia. we can see every minute of every day, this easy, i was planning to say, if i understand you correctly, your argument is that some of the best progress, if mindfully i to say, i have decided to exploit humanities massey, primitive instinct. i should be a good at why, what is there and game? he thought i would say income casanya this the other m m a we lose to be you

laugh me gave an example for the audience and obviously elizabeth that payment? yes, you will. in the e you, there is a top official in charge of foreign affairs by the name of joseph burrell. meely bought it o m o m o, he is anti russian to the corps and doesn't even deny it. and he, sad that russia must be defeated on the battlefield. my boy, if need to be known, what, what is his agenda won't go? why does he talk such nonsense? he suddenly is a man of tremendous responsibility, our pro, what are we even talking about today? a few days operate, i heard him say that it dawned on me why i was determined woman in her forties or fifties, speak to shell on z d f and major sherman t, the channel david bro, grandma and i was yes, she was from a younger generation not the hitler youth generation. ah,

julia gun know what she sad was so baffling. i even remember her last name. it was gal go your amelia. i was amazed that a sentiment like that could be expressed in the very heart of europe. you have roku . i'm not going to be, she spoke in favor of pumping ukraine with heavy weaponry. and her argument was that we should find the russians because they are a talking or a liberal and post modern way of life. you know a lot you so this woman, another way your chairman said, isn't once sure many to fight russia in the name of european valley is national lead. that was nice, but i have a professor kress, my understanding is that the special has more than just a political dimension. it has also expanded into the realm of culture only. nobody

wants or it. yes, this is don in order to serve cultural supremacy over russia. that's why i gave you the example about chairman women. this line of argument is simply baffling for intellectuals to revert to some sort of racist or nap cpa or rising to cultural racism. it is, i'm think about, there is a massive risk for russia here as well. if it fails to handle these developments properly, just not that i'm very worried about rushes response. we must not go back to the 940 s or 950 s back to the soviet anti cuss my politan campaign, which was me, me got some. i mean, i think it's an important thing to understand that under the banner fighting russia of russia's cultural heritage, including the heritage of the 19th or early 20th century, it's getting essentially cancel it, not for it, but that's all it. but there are plenty of examples of this kind of idiocy

happening. what could you tell us which one shot to the most of the thought of lead solely, but it was the authoritarian base of liberalism. it charged me to see that it exists, but it's got fuzzy to say, i have a position and it's not the official position of the youth. for example, napoli word though i expressed that position. the brewster, not any fear. the voices advanced somewhere on the fringes. if by one to say, i want the truth, i send for diplomacy and peace. this is a very simple position, but where can i make my boys heard her? say you didn't have access to the media. you wasn't young boys, do you want find this sort of athenians expressed anywhere in the media, notting, germany or not, and calling to let you know, you know, but i know what people actually think. i've been to many european countries lately

. people don't want war. they believe in pace. they are against the pumping ukraine with arms because these cannot be achieved that way. miss diane, miss anita miss. but instead of payson negotiations, we've got through so phobia or ukraine, a phobia, a book. it works almost the same way. all the other side, i mean, this is a question. i think i'll have to disagree with you here. because i do not see this and t crane sentiment in russia, in part because we all have family in ukraine. any god nicholas? no, there is no ukraine of phobia, russia every night, no matter what the media says, we call our relatives to check how they're doing. so they genes, we worry about them all the time. so if someone says this was easy on the russian people that to lie when we realized this is a heavy bad and i would even say great sin in some day we will have to pay for it starting up and get the blessing. noah. but for us, don't thought,

but the thing is, the way i see it is that the west left russia now as a choice looked, looked at. that's the tragedy you're at least 4 actors involved rocha about the i've already talked about the authoritarian phase of liberalism. they claim that crush alone is responsible for the war that the conflict again and sample rate. 24 didn't double the wars started way before it that you might use. i'm a historian, so i analyze phenomena from a historical perspective. they give you most and he's more began, it made it, we operate the collapse of the soviet union. let's delete the idea of breaking the russia part was a concept in the 3 emerged in the early 19 nineties in the works of a speak me up, but it's in schema. who was a security advisor to several us presidents?

i know i just since dan native has been expanding eastwards all the way seats worked with us, now we are witnessing the backlash. what any of us? i think there is something to this conflict we haven't seen before. and that was the confrontation between russia and the west had indeed begun a long time ago. the way before the 24th of february 2022. or that we have never seen any attempt to ban sikowski with c. s. he until now he of go. that was literally, you may have had the story about a 200 year old oak tree in to get if museum, which was banned from participating in the european tree of the year contest in order to exclude russia, organic tree. that was any other way that i see, you know, i mean this is marana. evade and wanted their point, or is there some kind of deeper meaning here? is there an underlying papist, or are people just losing their minds? went to law. if he is gone to rally, the goal is to control the population,

the public opinion, media, and to eradicate all other years. see years mostly through gaps. oak has no right to exist in the west will. people will want to know why you, me, bravo, will be it over. or explain this, that you are told russians are evil people that they should be punished. my li, are you, are you still not a not sure what it means they keep appealing to the sounds self, probably conscience to the ideal punishment. so this is a glare. keep trying to implant and to people's minds. the idea that russian says are some kind of barbarians. it's in lucy. therefore, european values must be abandoned in ukraine. that's why they pretend that ukraine is a democracy. even though they keep using these concepts as tools with us, you see while there are a number of democratic countries in eastern europe,

does the majority are authoritarian regimes. tony dungy, it is she who at all and for example, or the baltic states national or even my own country might, you know, would you like it is very important that is offered the collapse of the ussr. we pacified our ideology, little saying that we follow with the same development path as europe, younger obisky butchered as weak base is simply impossible. you cannot build a board, you. i democracy without a pro democracy, middle class resolute is always going to build democracy. then those years, the oligarchy, without any culture from scratch, doherty what they did was concentrate all economic power in their hands through privatization to it. nothing more will yet we hear all these nonsense about european culture. well, professor cross, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. adrian,

ah, ah, no nation, no nation is ever done anything like it in all history. so what we got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation,

let it be an arms race move is on often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very political time. time to sit down and talk ah welcome back to world support with the mass krauss, professor of russian history out there at for slower on the university of sciences . in budapest, a has a professor, i lay you mentioned the idea of appealing to people's consciences, euchre. it seems to me that the whole mark of russian culture is as complex as he and deps walker if we're good on that. as it appeals directly to the human, so it's not the only coach to do that,

but that is certainly its distinctive feature. openness by me, causes us thought. would you agree that these attempts to cancel tchaikovsky to kenneth and dostoevsky are intended to keep westerners away? men from russian culture, a good idea of mckinney g r i was the middle school going to renew july zarbara short so that it can not touch their souls and let them see through the haze of not only the rest, the phobia, but also the entire capitalist system is still a good boy, the basically squeezes the live out of people come see us in some would save money to humanize us. problem with dr to, i mean they're not be a good day for example, as that germans woman was talking old. that nonsense or saw the prism for olsen made a point. you just get sad that one cannot ignore their deep and breach russian culture . got dora, which represents the pacola human achievement lead. you're good. yeah. dogs. you have to admit that because every one now such door. so the harm is not as great as

we might hear. people won't be filled, they, cecily, didn't blame the west as over doing it. some in the west are being over zealous in the way they did carry out the orders from washington and brussels. yep. you have it among the intellectually lead side and see any one trying to directly target for russian culture grow. man, you get to hear some main at which to have conflicts with the russian scholars by you might you go to my and he, nick, i just saw me refused to chris palmed with russian in black shoals at the center of doesn't you there, but didn't the hatred, asthma dobson goes so deep as to warrant a man on chikavsky or tolstoy a law. and then i don't feel that kind of sentiment just yet, but i called the number, but stoba does. yeah. but you might be interested in,

you know, the brokerage yet your school. you mean, it seems to me, there is something home, a superstitious or richly fricky back with movement to cancel russia that i think you may remember the incident in sweden when a concept in support of ukraine was cancelled after the swedish musicians financially when the bell alike as they were supposed to pray were made in russia bell alike as good counsel. how crazy is that? this is magical, thinking in its purest form. they think they are somehow helping the ukrainians bye to angle lease with old. is russo phobia santini rushing by the like, had the ukrainians in anyway. well, should we get a bit of a help that these superstitious approach will help generate more support? more emotional solidarity with the ukranian refugees, guys give me vibes, that's not true. we happy in helping the cranium refugees since day one. ready we are helping them take russians are helping misaki people of all political views.

all sorts of people are helping. yeah. those yes, yes. my da needed some money too. so all the hate against russians comes from the top. i used to that more, but maybe it's just the way i see it. but there has been a lot of mystical messaging in the dialogue between the criminal and the white house when you got senior moment bill and for example, 1st peyton and biden bring up god, a lot of all that also biden said some time ago. the poodle had no soul, which was quite a strong statement, because we really do think that this conflict, when russia and the west is defined merely by the struggle for geopolitical influence, resources the right to decide for the nation. so probably the sides of the game will be or is it also a spiritual battle of some sort as well? yes. teaches these things, do not exist separately, but it's very chilled the political envy,

konami aspects all work together. but yeah, there is a global conflict going on in the us and the collective west one to restore there had gemini in the world even these up. but what it was that, i mean, you do this, they need to demonize each enemy that poses a real crap, like china, india, etc. got you. and is there a new factor in some of the global saying, and nobody really understands them? well, the at my, this is all about and you world order. well, you see, nobody understands them, but i think in russia at least, i think i do understand them when you get here, who can watch the motions, you know, have a certain inclination for mysticism certainly. but so do the american sports weapon with sure we are really close in this regard. we'll believe we're the chosen people. so i'll give an example. cravett bon biden often denounces

president putin to narrative speaks bad by the way, and biden is on a mission to fight rush and all the garbage. you got you, bro, he isn't fighting against capitalism. like, i do know he's targeting russian oligarchs. why isn't he fighting american all the guards? what's the difference? a scene you but you might or boston oligarch started bad american. the oligarchs are good guys. he only got, he's got a she. and this is mr. c. as in its purest form. is me, how can one believe it? you're right. one can't. if one is a racial person, i usually thought it's a matter of faith. you bring your mind letting me up, but i, i was struck by russian soldiers paintings that under the coastal sky. if it's an ancient slattich latin, meaning the us here at the watching the, i missed that

a 5 ounce can walk. i thought as much had z m lucas place other meanings were a land nation, much people i, that i'm not, not a what it even to narrative, the human body in its entirety. i was able, nice here. i had them say for russians sits and next essential spiritual battle. look up on. what about the west? when you might think, does it understand it's not just about cream, that is much more than that as of what it will walk aviation. i thought i said just by fornia, i be a brochure going to ship. it's delayed. you not all the you see the people at large haven't to internalize this yet. only some might understand the meaning of this letter. go dog bud bilson. power. hey, this latter is key, lee. they, they are trying to ban it. can you believe this little bit dire? you're not beast banning a ladder, a place shine. how is it possible? is that going to show this is the civilized world. so to say the west campaigning

against the latter does that, but you book who with his shoulder is a joke saying it's not easy. lansky but yell lansky crazy. so much say me. you asked, what is it that has shocked me? the most grassy. these has it but as he looked it up but us no, i guess a professor cries there might be some deep meaning to this yell at him. i love the romanian philosopher and historian of religion mere cheerly i. they gave it to me. i thought of his study, the connection between geography and spirituality. you're one of his most famous wax, is the sacred and the profane heal name a point, the ongoing. he argues there, that when a home or a land loses his cosmological meaning to pass and i've yet to pass his body an entire existence, also lose their spiritual and religious dimension wasn't his line. you pause in a shy absurdity of yours, in the way beholden there. was no sla, but don't you sing? said you've trying to agonizing the west and rushes fighting globalization,

lee and the idea that a passage should be detached from the land from the history of his ancestors. well, the idea of being free and separated from the historical, cultural and spiritual processes in the processing. it's not, i'm, i'm dia, globalization is the idea that you can be anywhere or saw in was it, which is yeah, if you put it this way is essentially against human spiritual nature, whose voice in an upper, it's about asia, the warmest give us no one you know you had, you brought it yet, you know, i'm a historian, so i speak from the historical perspective in recent decades. globalization has brought about some tremendously negative consequences for all of mankind or challenges ever been william. i think everyone agrees on that to day look

again, but what was the response to these neil liberal globally as challenges e still moore's love jack. the response seems to be that they decided they can bride a humanist and religious feelings and use them as a pretext to wage a war that actually has completely different real reasons. a gen lucy, subset this debbie there is this, is she of national south expression in eastern ukraine? this is the real issue here. jane. yeah, no, not love us, don't you? is that a new grind it that a i live up rossi in as up next. this is also true for western ukraine that i see russia never said it didn't one an independent process in ukraine. what i feel grain, it was, it did not want the country to become a ground to launch an offensive. i annisa my they are hushing up all of ukraine's problems. move up ships up on the group again over. ready there

isn't a single mention of the negative aspect, slight ukrainian masters in western propaganda. holy, i have one last question about propaganda. coincidentally, that was in his speech financing the start of the special operation in ukraine. president putin called the west the empire of life, e y e o, yet imperial was re with them as i see it. that was a reference to preston rake and cooling the soviet union, an evil empire community to say, because i use it on them to reagan. what i want to ask you personally, not as a historian owner, academic is but as a pass here we do you believe that truth is power reviewed that the truth always comes out sooner or later than with back to be. i glad. yes, the gala is lee. yea be honest. there's like a king. if i were to lose faith and human kind 10 the truth my, my life would be meaningless. i candidly, without it you model crystal,

you model it by it that we on your domain is still dark here. that's why i don't think generalize concepts like the west and the star legitimate. please go my are too broad a local but as he is up at the local brazil my dog, when applied, they raised the diversity of the west, east and russia. they give rise to cultural braces, naziism, and rissa phobia anomalies. instead, we need to analyze the existing global and regional systems. and if you want to eat, gave us was la business. you also, you have to have a critical approach to capitalism, to school, but i wish the best way to rekey you, otherwise it's impossible to. so any crisis is a whether today or tomorrow, yes or no? yes, 0. well, professor, i think we had

a very spirited conversation. thank you very much for that. thank you. goodbye. and thank you for watching. oh, this here again, on the wells apart. ah mm hm. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it treat even foundation, let it be an arms race is open, very dramatic development and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very critical of time to sit down and talk a

breaking news this our offering into national thousands of supporters of the form of pakistan. prime minister in ron con, gather around his residence, took la police as they tried to arrest the politicians. also, as they tried to instruct him to take over the capitol. this, according to the demonstrators and supporters of him are on a foreign ministry. who says here will bet full responsibility if indeed it found to be behind the.