salting on rest, if the industry has to go to shortened work, weeks and reduced pay thanks to the energy crunch. this is where i get nervous. the ingredients for social unrest are there and the risk of that is under appreciated. meanwhile, swiss officials are drawing up doomsday style scenarios. i made a fear of potential blackouts or even a shut down of the power grid. all these nations officials are going to great lengths to comment on how they're handling this slow motion train wreck streaming about the potential fall out. while ignoring the fact that halting the crash is entirely within the power and control of their own governments. they're not, is in bystanders, their architects of this crisis, and it's just a matter of stepping not from the ledge, taking a deep breath and ending their self harming sanctions. but instead, as the e, you constantly points out. they're all united this time in their folly, and it seems increasingly like their intent on pulling all of their citizens down

together with them. well, trade unions on community organizations are also concerned about the ongoing energy crisis in the u. k. they've created they enough, is enough campaign to fight against the rising cost of living on top, made 5 demands to improve the situation. now they want a real pay increase in pensions and benefits too much soaring, inflation on energy bills slash saying people can't afford another price, like they're also demanding guaranteed food for everybody on to make the rich pay more by raising taxes on the wealthiest at least 2 people have been killed and 16 injured after a bridge was sheldon to her son region by the ukrainian army at the time of a fairy crossing. that's according to local authorities. the shelling spark to fire on the road bridge. eye witnesses, same part of the crossing has clumps with debris reaching in nearby village. earlier this month, the same bridge was again attacked by the ukrainian army in attempt to prevent russian forces from the litter strikes on the targets were reportedly conducted

with us supplied. hi mars rocket launch systems i knows munitions are part of the new $775000000.00 package of western a to key law. another strike was probably don't buy your premium forces, the hydro electric power station in the city of inert good, or at least one person, a taxi driver was reportedly killed by flying glass. the nuclear plant in the same city has come under repeated shelling, attacks of late with key f, demanding russia servants. in addition to that, right, they've done yet for public internationally ban landmines continue to be used in residential areas so far. they're being the right 50 civilian casualties, including time to catch up with peter and jessica in moments for the latest cross talks or was a fiery 30 minutes there. and i'll see you again at the top. lie from moscow. this is our team. ah,

a hello. and welcome to cross top, where all things are considered on peter labelle. the one aspect about the ongoing conflict in ukraine that stands out most is media coverage. never in the history of corporate media has coverage been so biased, one sided, and it does not stop. they are questioning the standard narrative is akin to treason and subject to censorship and cancellation. ah. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, vladimir goldstein in capitol. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies

at brown university and in hostile we have one decent. he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the book . bruce, a phobia propaganda in international politics. originally crossed across to the fact that means you can jump anytime you want, and i would appreciate it. i would start out with one here in our slow, you know, one of the things in looking at media coverage. and that's what i do for a living, lie cover on western media primarily. and you know, when it comes to the conflict in ukraine going on 5 months, you really don't really learn much about the conflict. instead they to, when they're trying to convince you how to feel about the conflict, there is a lacking that the context is lacking. i'm even geographical knowledge is pretty scant. and, and there's reliance upon vogue magazine, a photo shouts of the ukrainian president and his wife. i mean, in that seat of my stressing how to feel, it is easier to get away without const contextualizing in an n, as

a way to try to allay all the suffering that western publics are feeling. glen. well, what you're describing is a good description of propaganda because we have defined a just propaganda to large extent, completing an audience by not relying on rational arguments. so if you play, i'm stereotypes and ceilings, and obviously there's this build up to the war. we're currently just russia games, which obviously was a great example of how ceilings it kind of blurred out all of the facts on the matter. now obviously, countries use propaganda to some extent during war, especially, this is around this is because it's necessary to mobilize public consent for a conflict. so this is why we say this during this time. but this is what the names to do is build up their stereotypes. of course what goes wrong,

good versus evil. and if you accept this there at time and all the information comes through this, through this prism fax, as you said, it doesn't really matter anymore because you're guiding something even well, it's not necessary. and, and this is how you see it. and again, it's a long history of there's a process always been see if you will, the other and, you know, they've been buried, store civilization, they've been the asians know frontier and are liberal democracy. so this is how all information has to be filtered to making a big harry potter his story out of the news send. this is problematic because people can accept those stereotypes and get stuck with those emotions. don't look at the facts anymore. and then in my argument, then one loses let me, which, what's interesting here, i'm calling this program the phony war. and of course, this is a reference to the time when it's the,

during the 2nd world war. after the war started in, when nazi germany invaded poland and before the invasion of france was called the phony war. because there wasn't much going on particularly on the french front. but this, there is a real war going on. but the, the propaganda that glen was referencing, and it's getting a bit sin because if the russian saw their bad guys, why are we in the west of free? they're not making a very compelling argument. vladimir, well, i would say we have to look at who is the object of propaganda and it's clear that ojo propaganda is much less ukrainians were actually a bear the bronsels of war and are being killed and suffering. so if they hear some reports from the see or if they look at the pictures and ski, if they're not effected by that, they know that they're brothers or sisters. i mean, you know, on

a wounded or killed a wound and so on. but they're just as a gullible western public research to support this, a fraud that everything is united, everything's for the school and be, is this kind of the, i desire to send money to give some kind of extra walk me to the industrial company . it's clear that sooner or later these narrative will hear very hard to reality on the ground. because you know, every time they tell the west all levels help, the brain isn't going to smash russia. great, i'm going to conquer this, and i says, i run it out of their last m all you know, and it sooner late than even less than public, not just a few green on the west of public will say, well, you tell us this, and now we hear that it ends out of the root is trying to get 70 old people in the army. now he says everyone from done by city just have to move away. something doesn't clique. and then, you know,

a western propaganda and propaganda will end up with a big on their face and they, i think they trying to push on it as long as they jens, but in general, reality, you know, really, glenn in it. there we were kind of nerdy all 3 of us on this program because we appreciate the history and geo politics and we're from 3 different different different countries. but, you know, as an american, you know, the post mortem of the, the ending of the war in southeast asia. my goodness at south vietnam government was really, really corrupt men. oh, i'm a year ago with the exit of afghanis and my goodness, that was a really corrupt to come from and. and now, before the conflict started of every 24th this year, ukraine was one of the most consider one of the most corrupt countries in the world . so, i mean, this is going to kind of come full circle as billions and billions of dollars are being forwarding to the country. money, military equipment, ammo. the whole works here. but just talk about corruption is,

like i said in my introduction, almost treasonous. go ahead. heads on this before this war, and you had went down the seal and making documentaries, documents about you know, the horrible corruption and ukraine, documentaries about what they refer to as not said battalions, but now after the war began, we now see that this all came from the russian propaganda and said in the more, also calling a proxy war and was also enough to get your council. but then of course, the old american political issue told began to refer to as a proxy. we're in the media now. it's okay. so it's difficult to follow, but again, this is a huge conformity. i mean, you have to choose between 2 positions. and this is often very artificial because of course, if you can say you're opposed to the rational attack on ukraine because their

supporting you do your position also have to conform to the whole narrative. but this is a big rivalry between democracy versus terrorism. and that also makes china complexity well. but of course the facts in this market, it's kind of different tears because you know, government is supposed to be this near inspirational. beacon of democracy, you know, sometimes gets the new winston churchill. and of course, it becomes non official because he comes when, if you want to talk about hong colfax, for example, the district court laws against russia, speakers on ethnic russians, binding the opposition party about the resting adventure, the main opposition later or placing all neither control under the state, you know, these are objectively undemocratic and actions, but if you mention this fact,

it becomes called rational propaganda. why not true or no? because now you're creating about it, i want to create a new government. so showing support, it's less than necessary and that's why it's very dangerous for this kind of gotten across and makes all our journalists in the west into soldiers in this information work. and you know, which destroying our own trust in a meeting were trying to destroy our own institutions and the, and, and it's one end to this cause like we should be able to say on the things such as . and you know, if you want to convert ukraine into frontline against russia, this is not compatible with democracy. and this is why we see that you created marks, it's large extent, was snapped out after 2014. and when you close to maybe made into this new frontline, but again, we would, we don't talk about the facts instead we have this book articles, you know, you have this. yeah. you always, this emotional appeal would have been to soleski versus polluting,

which has become the embodiment of evil. and then we don't have to discuss security interest. we don't have to discuss because is a good man versus evil now. and you pick your side, you know, blood of it when it, when glen was describing how the goal post as it were, is changing. if, if there's a guy amazing similarity to cove it, i mean when you can say something when you can say something, but you can say something at one point. you can cancel the months later. it's common parlance. i mean it's, it's very interesting that kind of a trajectory both cove it in the way we're allowed to talk about ukraine. i think, you know, what americans are good. it is a, each of the masses are manipulation messes and maybe learn from this experience. what i, he and all is like in this market, use them all over again. and i'm not going to use and work for quite some time on do some very, she is honest voices in united states arose and say, there's

a lot of you know, exchange you described in your, you're creating a request dangerous situation, which destroys our democracy, destroys our country, the same thing is happening here. i don't think if americans want to help ukraine. this is not the way to cope green by allowing one person band all the parties that have been all employees and this doesn't help a place. this is doesn't help anyone. any kind of you through, you know, dialectics through kind of challenges through some trying to improve. and just here in this, my, my classroom methods, it works for a while and americans know it and they use it and they use it on germany. they use it on t lines and sweden, they manipulate it, but it's people commonsensical people should surely the realize that this is not a fair description of the story. and because it's false, it does help anyway. i'm glad you're on top of it then with something called for an

investigation of ukrainian oligarchy, which is a very interesting because that would encompass the narrative before february 24th . there's corruption in ukraine and a lot of money in western money in goodwill. i think that, you know, you can say that for at least the part of some people, but that, you know, that is the day again, that kind of creeping narrative. yeah. it is. yeah. remember the corruption, maybe because of so much money. we should have some oversight here around paul and he was, he was attacked mercilessly say, well vote for the money, but can we buy now where it's going and where would it? and i mean, he was just absolutely destroyed in the media. but now there's more and more talk. yeah, maybe we should have some kind of oversight here. you just have to know how to play the cues. i suppose glen real quick before we go to the break here. it would be there's going to be a major offensive most likely in ukraine, but it's going to be a russian one, not a ukrainian one. i don't know if western media is prepared to deal with that. i

don't know. i don't because i, well, let me go so point that out correctly before the main people were trying to convince the western audience, classifying of money and the weapons i think about, for this reason, do you need to keep the momentum going to keep the support going on or the core of this is to say, you know, the greens are winning, thrushes are losing who i'm kind of seeing over the 5 months this perpetual claim after a year gland. we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion, some real new stake with archie. ah, ah, ah, when i would think wrong, went on just a to see how the thing becomes the african

and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground. oh, welcome back across the top where all things are considered, i get a little this is the home edition. to remind you, we're discussing some real news, the. the minutes go back to glen glen, you thought we had to go to the break. you were trying to make a point. please finish up. the thing about the continued support by the western public requires this promise victory, especially with this kind of self sacrifice. so, every week, you know, we have this new story about ukraine launching a spectacular context. you know, some kind of going to over meet the reports that nothing comes out of this except

for huge losses. and also say that process losing much weekend. russia, losing in running out every week, soldiers in russia and lost their morales and putting it sit here, putting it's almost about to be toppled the rest of the economy. if it floating, i mean it is, it plays out all over again. and again, that number, anything comes out of it. so what are you going to with the story that your grand st under dog, destroying the russian military brushes simply only targeting civilians of course. so, and this is where the emotional aspect comes in as well. because me only focus on civilian that's on one side, but on the other side it can be mentioned and it goes back to the idea that if you, if you have some sympathy for an opposing side, then like around paul, you might be a traitor because now you're spreading propaganda veto is not the fact that the

matter is whether or not you can draw up the not the sympathy for the right side. the real tragedy is that there isn't been a call or to go. she, agents in peace instead of taking a side note people, but will empower so that we have this counseling, but you're not getting that. but what we're doing is just, you know, all of the things that we're told to believe the russian economy is failing. ms. sick, a low morale in the military, when things are going to last, the governments are balling in the west, the inflation is ripping energy crisis food banks and the u. k. all the things they're projecting on what's happening in russia is actually happening in real time in the west. and you can't cover that because that is the lived experience of people. when you got to get bill up, you're not taking your cards. no propaganda is going to convince you one way or

another. it's just expensive. go ahead. yeah, the same thing applies to the price of gasoline, driving the cars and you know, heating and cooling. so i think it is, you know, i think the rest and propaganda, they can lie about decent places like, you know, ukraine 90 percent of the people, jennifer burns, a blue child or so it sounds all kind of music all strange by the lesson. but if you go to your own store and see the prices it is, it's collapsing and i think it's, it's an actually, it's a, it's a mistake of a weston estimation or what there was a weakness in saying in russia because they know i see it will be she said, well we will kind of wrong about the strength over us and the guy. you know what made it. just think about it. you are brought american gun hor. you want your 160 to succeed. you have to know your enemy. if you don't know your enemy,

how can you do anything if you're just life is don't tell lies that chinese a giant on legs of clay in the rush is, doesn't go out. and then with, you know, just, you know, hitler was a lie and his own people, well, well, much the russian in today's and then what, you know, they just throw the you, they just throw themselves. so i think it will keep, and she, and as a result of this lies and in her life to themselves, that's a bit dangerous thing. you know, plan and not only lines, but i think that it is a great deal of arrogance in play as well. because i'm there with the russians for pushback, from care. that's the story here. well i, i don't know what the military planning ones, i don't know what that was all about. but there is this impression that these armchair generals that were into generals in wars that were lost by the way, by the west in the middle east, primarily. but they're, they're um, trying to convince maybe themselves and the audience that the russians fight the

same way as we do, destroy all the infrastructure, lose something about the iraqi and destroy the water and destroying the electric, to destroy everything. and then you go in, that's not the case of the, again, this kind of arrogant projection of how they fight a war. everybody else does, which is not the case. if you are familiar with the facts on the ground, glen. yeah, well, what you mentioned curious, important because that's a narrative. what you're kind of stuck on stuck kept for so long because the beginning of the or, and of course russia were still is the troops outskirts. i'm hoping to get the concessions they wanted. and again, this was done by the weekend, however, dismissed in the work, but of course, the problem for the russians where they have this long, unprotected supply lines, which made them very well. so this position and this was at the starting point, every seems a different strategy. but again, the narrative snail reflects kimura,

which she, you know, ukrainian talks are starting to see things. there are some time. and you know, so, you know, the mighty russian military machine has been destroyed by the cranium. also have this story amongst mattress. you know, there goes the key will remember the airplane or just shut down all the russians. guy. yeah. make island, you know, this way. you know, russians for the russian worship also to be it doesn't matter because the narrative still still stays there. still having the science show to the western, you know, it awesome. say so is this need to hold onto the narrative and this is also problematic. i pointed out it's got forced to take this position was and you know, so for example, i'm personally horrified by what's happening and ukraine is devastating, but you're saying listen, we shouldn't push towards political settlement,

talk to the russians, at least, even if it doesn't start to dialogue now to see where the possibility is for making peace. well, that would be anti ukraine. and now i'm curious pro russian because now i'm unethical. it's saying, well, if i wanted to make peace now with your credit, if that means, well, i have to make some confession, send that man. asking for an ukraine is to surrender. so you're not allowed to call for peace that history in this role. so and, and so you have, you have to take one of the fish, which is the post, or one and with all the strange and efficient switch that doesn't necessarily make sense. so it's, it's very confusing. and just one final notice it goes beyond the narrative. it's george or point that out that also implies manipulating the language. so what, what makes met before is not even more so what's happening with the sanctions. what are the economic recession now hitting across the west? well, us, so with the,

by the administration is simply changed the meaning of recession. there were nothing recession, this is what we saw. a mother was wrong, and the oldest soldier surrender who also surrendered. it wasn't evacuation as it turned out when they put down their weapons and surrendered, and then the russian captivity. this was an evacuation that was repeated across the western media. so we just changed the language instead of you know, to fit with the american. it's is quite extraordinary and it's, it's not good for us either is not pro russian on far west or are you this is bad for us in the west as well. you know, vitamin with one of the things i find very interesting is that because there is no dialogue, a blanket in law off did speak, but for the readouts is talking about this prisoner exchange, which i'm for the interested parties. i'm sure it's very, very important. but in the, in the, in the scheme of things, you know, it is, it doesn't bode well for any time soon. the conflict, the in ukraine to come to an end. and i would, i would posit,

because zalinski is not interested in the, and the europeans have been cowed into silence from the, the russians will then they would, they'll say we don't have a partner, there's nobody competent to talk to in washington. they're all the phones, they don't really understand what they're doing. i'm the secretary of defense as we want. our plan is to leak and russia, i guess that's sending a signal to the kremlin. what do you know? what kind of been a locker they have? and i would, i would posit then this conflict will come to an end, will come to an end when russians are ready for it to end. and i'd like to point out to everyone, this conflict will come to an end under russia's terms in time table. when russia is come to the conclusion, i'm thinking about the 2 letters that were sent in december on december 17th, when the nato went to the united states about russia, security guarantees, russia will determinant unilaterally. and they'll say they're done thoughts. yeah, i agree with you and i think that's, that's the damage on the ground. and there weston denied by in our separation. i

was ordered to a speech by, you know, or use an are all those things, but the sooner or later that's how it will and what is said about that to, to, to get there. a lot of people will be killed in an tremendous damage to the most basic democratic principles will be done because basically the behavior. oh blink blink. shannon bided. this is childish behavior. united states, nate, are they were talking to sonya to russia. they were talking to, sorry, the last one is invaded. check us. i guess they were talking to some of us are they, when you were she, they were concerned with these. they were concerned with the freedom of speech. they were going to now, all of a sudden, you know, over this conflict they just suppressed the basic principles of us. and if you try to write something on facebook, which goes against the narrative, bam, you know, type of counseling, one of the most popular a, to me for some of his 70000000 people listen to him or know he's

a declared russian is this child is behavior which is another u. s trojan themselves, not only just, you know, fortune, you know, make millions of people in the slavic lands. but, you know, they go to themselves. but that's what disturbing, you know, glenna and on i mentioned in my introduction about with a the risk of cancellation. in this there has been in the asserted attempt to can, so all of russia russian's russian culture, russian history, the works ok. but i would pause in the west is self cancelling itself in many ways because the, the global south in china, they just, they, they're not on board, they will not get on board at the, the west finds itself isolated, something that we're talking about language rush is isolated at the same time, putting in lab robert, traveling a busy schedule. there's no global consensus against russia miss. and i would posit the west as isolating himself the global self. no longer fears the west and

doesn't respect the west anymore. luck last word goes to you, but i agree. and i think that this has been one of the major shock. so here in the west is, you know, again, this is a narrative, not the whole world is united behind you in behind the west islip thrush, a ton of nato. not that many in the countries and all that according to the west instead of it doesn't mean that they're supporting russia, just mean stuff. this one is a proxy war between nato and russia or the cost, the cost of ukrainian sunday. they didn't want to pick aside in this. i mean, everyone's a russian probably on this will. stephen argument of the pope for that obviously, nato's provoked this, but again, he was a full in the category of russia. so it is, it is a shame because this has been the strength of the wes, this being able to have this group and this course and challenge established ideas and a thing like, it's no way someone watching us here already. see you next time, remember?

ah ah, breaking news on our see russia say korean secret services were behind the killing of doria duke and the daughter of russian philosopher alexander also had on the program to oh, the marin county followers continue to rally in his support and i guess down the country's former prime minister is granted protective bill by a high court in lama after police file terror charges against them. but with the court ruling expiring on thursday, he still.