these authorities are perfectly free to dispute and counter what media report about them without arresting and prosecuting journalists. in any case, no civilians should face trial before tunisia, military courts, this travesty of justice must stop. so what did people and to nature want? well officially, 96 percent of voters supported the new constitution in a recent referendum, but only 31 percent of them actually voted on below, turn out serves as a reminder that the transition to democracy hasn't actually been all it was made out to be this by the praise hillary clinton gave the north african nation back in 2011. we have an enormous stake and ensuring that egypt in tunisia provide models for the kind of democracy that we want to see. that transition was rewarded with more than $1400000000.00 and funding from the us state department, as well as around $685000000.00 from washington and tories agency for international development. so why then did the 2020 international republic institute survey find

that 87 percent of the people in tunisia believe their country was headed in the wrong direction. it appears that despite the thank you gifts from the west, the new system has been met with criticism from members of the public who say it has allowed for more corruption instead of improvement igniting more resentment at a time of high inflation and unemployment. that's certainly not what the us president brock obama said was happening and to nija back in 2015. amid the turmoil that so often dominates the headlines, it can be tempting to think that all of north africa in the middle east is gripped by disorder. but in tunisia where the arab spring began democracy and pluralism are taking root, we can do more together to helped uneasy and consolidate their democratic gaines. the us state department was quick to criticize a new constitution, claiming it is part of, quote, an alarming erosion of democratic norms. however,

what they didn't say was that after tens of thousands of people died as a result of the arab spring, the only success that came from the protest fueled by the u. s. where the governments that were overthrown. but i'm sure the promise of democracy and a better way of life as told by the west. it is now nowhere to be found as already turned into a busy program here in our international appreciate you joining us here for 32 in the morning here at moscow. we are back soon with more a with

hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered on peter labelle, the one aspect about the ongoing conflict in ukraine that stands out most is media coverage. never in the history of corporate media has coverage been so biased, one sided, and it does not stop. they are questioning the standard narrative is akin to treason and subject to censorship and cancellation. ah. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, vladimir goldstein in capitol. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in hostile we have one decent. he is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the book . russo phobia propaganda in international politics. originally crossed across the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate it. i would start out with one here in our slow, you know,

one of the things in looking at media coverage. and that's what i do for a living, lie cover on western media primarily. and you know, when it comes to the conflict in ukraine going on 5 months, you really don't really learn much about the conflict. instead they to, when they're trying to convince you how to feel about the conflict, there is a lacking, the context is lacking. i'm even geographical knowledge is pretty scant. and, and there's reliance upon vogue magazine. i'm a photo shouts of the ukrainian president and his wife. i mean, in the that's the my stressing how to feel. it is easier to get away with outcomes to contextualizing in an n, as a way to try to allay all the suffering that western publics are feeling. glen. well, what you're describing is a description of propaganda because have defined a just propagandized large extent were conducing an audience by not relying on

rational arguments. so if you play on stereotypes and ceilings, and obviously there's this build up to this or began the war, we're currently just follow russia games, which obviously was a great example of how ceilings kind of blurred out all of the fact of the matter. now obviously, countries, news propaganda to some extent during war, especially about this is around this is because it's necessary to mobilize public concerns for conflicts. so this is why we say this during this time. so what we're going to do is build up if there are times of course what goes wrong, good versus evil. and if you accept this there at time and all information comes through this, through this prism fax, us, you said it doesn't really matter anymore because you're guiding something even well, it was necessary. and, and this is usually how you see it. again, it's

a long history of there's a rush, it's always been seen as if you will, the other, you know, they've been burying store civilization. they've been the asians european this know here and sort of them are pretty. so this is how all information has to be filtered to making a big harry potter has story out of the news and this is problematic. most people can accept those stereotypes and get stuck with those emotions. don't look at the facts anymore. and then in my argument, everyone loses, let me, which was interesting here i'm calling this program the phony war. and of course, this is a reference to the time when this, the, during the 2nd world war, after the war started in when nazi germany invaded poland. and before the invasion of france, it was called the phony war because there wasn't much going on particularly on the french front. but this, there is a real war going on. but the, the propaganda that glen was referencing it's getting

a bit sin. because if the russians all their bad guys, why are we in the west of free? they're not making a very compelling argument loud. i'm here. well, i would say we have to look at who is the old general propaganda. and it's clear that old journal propaganda is much less ukrainians where actually bear the bronsels of war and are being killed and suffering. so if they hear some reports from, from dc, or if they look at the pictures and ski in that effected by that they know that their brothers or sisters, i mean, you know, cause a wounded or killed a wound and so on. but the gullible western public, there's a test to support this, a fronds that everything is united, everything's for school and be, is this kind of the, i desire to send money to give some kind of extra walk through the industrial comp

. it's clear that sooner or later these narrative will keep their here very hard to reality on the ground. because you know, every time they tell the west all levels help, the brain isn't going to smash russia. you're great. i'm going to conquer this. and i says, i running out of their last m all you know, and it sooner late than even less than public, not just with the green on the public would say, well, you tell us this, and now we hear that it ends out of the root is trying to get 70 old people in the army. and now he says, everyone from done by city just have to move away. something doesn't leak. and then, you know, a western propaganda and propaganda is we'll end up with a big on their face and they, i think they trying to push on it as long as they can. but you know, you can us reality. you know, glenn, in there were kind of nerdy all 3 of us on this program because we appreciate the

history and geo politics. and we're from 3 different different different countries . but, you know, as an american, you know, the post mortem of the ending of the war in southeast asia. my goodness at south vietnam government was really, really corrupt then a year ago with the exit of afghanistan. my goodness, that was a really corrupt to come from. and now before the conflict started of every 24th this year, ukraine was one of the most considered one of the most corrupt countries in the world. so, i mean, this is going to kind of come full circle as billions and billions of dollars are being forwarding to the country. money, military equipment, ammo. the whole works here. but just talk about corruption is, like i said in my introduction, almost treasonous. go ahead. ahead on this before this war and you had the, you know, a western medium d v seal on making documentary some in documentary about the horrible corruption in

your credit. your documentary, some also what they were referred to as nazi battalions. but now after the war began, and we now see that this all became suddenly russian propaganda and tell to st. in the more also calling a proxy war was also enough to get your council. then of course, the old american political issue began to refer to those who are in the media. now it's, it's ok, so it's difficult to follow, but again, this is this huge conformity. i mean, you have to choose between 2 positions, and this is often very artificial because of course, you can say you're opposed to the russian attack on ukraine because they're, you know, supportive. but if you do it as a position, you also have to conform to the whole narrative and big rivalry between democracy versus terrorist. and that also makes china complexity well. and then, but of course the facts in this market, it's kind of disappears because, you know,

your government is supposed to be this near inspirational. beacon of democracy, you know, sometimes gets the new winston churchill. and of course, it becomes non official because you can, when you want to talk about how punk colfax, for example, the more strict coney laws against russia, speakers on ethnic russians. how about binding the opposition party? about the resting retro, the main opposition later or placing all neither control under the state. you know, these are objectively undemocratic and actions, but if you mention this tax, it becomes called russia propaganda big. why not? sure. no. because now you're creating doubt about the korean government. so showing support is necessary and that's why it's very dangerous because it makes all our

journalists in the west into soldiers in this information or destroying our own trust me that we're trying to destroy our own institutions. and we want to enter this conflict. we should be able to say on this thing, such as and you know, if you want to convert ukraine into frontline against russia, this is not compatible with democracy. and this is why we see that you created a democracy. logic spent 2000 after 2014 when you moved to made into this new phone plan. but again, we will, we don't talk about the facts and then we have this book articles, you know, you have, there's always this emotional appeal would have to say landscape versus put in which has become the embodiment of evil. and then we don't have to discuss security interest. we don't have to because there's a good versus evil now. and if you're sign, it sounds like even when it's when glen was describing how the goal post as it were with this change in this is there's a guy, amazing similarity to cove it only when you can say something when you can't say

something, but you can say something at one point you can cancel the months later. it's common parlance. i mean it's, it's very interesting that kind of a, a trajectory both cove it and that way we were allowed to talk about ukraine. i think, you know what americans are good. it is a, each of them masses are manipulation messes and maybe learn from this experience. what i, he and all is, is like a marker to use them all over again. and i'm not going to use and work for quite some time until sound very. she is honest, voices in like the space arose and say, there's a lot of you know, exchange you describe in your, your crazy and request dangerous situation, which destroys our democracy, destroys our country. the same thing is happening here. i don't think if americans want to help ukraine, this is not the way to cope green by allowing one person band all the parties that

have been all employees and it just doesn't help me crazy. this is doesn't help anyone. any contact you through, you know, dialectics through kind of challenges through some trying to improve. and just here in this, my, my classroom methods, it works for a while and americans know it and they use it and they use it on germany. they use it on t lines and sweden. they manipulate it, but it's, people are commonsensical. people should surely the realize that this is not a fair description of the story. and because it's false, it does help anyway. i'm glad you're on top of it then with something called for an investigation of ukrainian oligarchy, which is a very interesting because that would encompass the narrative before february 24th . there's corruption in ukraine and a lot of money in western money in goodwill. i think that, you know, you can say that for at least the part of some people, but that, you know,

that is the day again, that kind of creeping narrative. yeah. it is. yeah. remember the corruption, maybe because of so much money. we should have some oversight here around paul and he was, he was attacked mercilessly say, well vote for the money, but can we buy now where it's going and where would it? and i mean, he was just absolutely destroyed in the media. but now there's more and more talk. yeah, maybe we should have some kind of oversight here. you just have to know how to play the cues. i suppose glen real quick before we go to the break here. it would be there's going to be a major offensive most likely in ukraine, but it's going to be a russian one, not a ukrainian one. i don't know if western media is prepared to deal with that. i know i, i don't because i well, let me go and point out correctly before the main people were trying to convince western audiences, classifying of money and the weapons. i think that's for this reason, do you need to keep the momentum going to keep the support going out?

the core of this is to say, you know, the ukraine's or winning thrushes or losing who i'm kind of seeing over the 5 months this perpetual claim on a vineyard line. we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue more discussion, some real estate with archie. ah ah ah, ah ah, welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i get a little this is the home addition to remind you,

we're discussing some real news. the. the minutes go back to glen glen, you thought we had to go to the break. you were trying to make a point. please finish up. you know, sort of thing that the continued support by the western public requires this promise victories, especially with this kind of cell sacrifice. so every week, you know, we have this new story about ukraine, launching a spectacular conference and you know, some kind of come to wherever to meet the reports that nothing comes out of this except for huge losses. and also we have to say about process losing week, and the russia losing in running out every week. soldiers in russia, lost their morales and put it sit here, put in, it's almost about to be the russian economy. clothing. i mean it's, it plays out all over again and again and, but member,

anything comes out of it. so what again, it says with the story that you know, your grand under dog, destroying the russian military brush simply only targeting civilians of course. so, and this is where the emotional aspect comes in as well. i mean, only focus on civilian that's on one side. but on the other side it can't be mentioned. and it goes back to the idea that if you, if you have some sympathy for an opposing side, then like around paul, you might be seeing traitor because now you're spreading propaganda. we saw the facts that matter is whether or not you can draw up enough sympathy for the right side. the real tragedy is that there isn't been call vertigo creation than piece, you know, instead of taking a side to people, but we'll empower so that we have that discount, but you're not getting what we're doing. you know, all of the things that we're told to believe the russian economy is bailing on is

sick. a round the military, when things are going to last, the governments are balling in the west. the inflation is for rick big energy crisis, food banks and the u. k, all the things they're projecting on what's happening in russia is actually happening in real time in the west. but you can't cover that because that is the lived experience of people. when you got to bill up, you're not taking your cards. no propaganda is going to be one way or another. it's just expensive. go ahead. yeah, the same thing applies to the price of gasoline, driving the cars and you know, heating and cooling. so i think it is, you know, i think the rest and propaganda, they can lie about decent places like, you know, ukraine, 90 percent of the people jennifer around most all blue child or so it sounds all kind of music all strange by the lesson. but if you go to your own store and see

the prices it is, it's, it's collapsing, and i think it's, it's an actually, it's a, it's a mistake of a weston estimation or was there was a weakness in saying, in russia because they know i see it in be she said, well, we will kind of wrong about the strength over us and the guy, you know, but they just think about your role american gun horn. you want your 160 to succeed . you have to know your enemy. if you don't know your enemy, how can you do anything if you're just life is don't tell lies that chinese a giant on legs of clay in the rushes or the collapse in today. then what will happen when you know, joe's what hitler was and why it was his own people? well, well, much the russians in today's and then what, you know, they just throw the you, they just throw themselves. so i think it, we keep on she and as a result of this lies and you know, lifestyle themselves as

a very dangerous thing. you know, plan and not only lines that i think become a great deal of arrogance in play as well. because i'm there with the russians for pushback, from care. that's the story here. well i, i don't know what the military planning was. i don't know what that was all about. but there is this impression that these armchair generals that were in the generals in wars that were lost by the way, by the west in the middle east, primarily. but they're, they're um, trying to convince maybe themselves in the audience that the russians fight the same way as we do destroy all the infrastructure, live something about the iraq and destroy the water, destroying the intro, to destroy everything. and then you go in, that's not the case of the, again, this kind of arrogant projection of how they fight a war. everybody else does, which is not the case. if you are familiar with the facts on the ground glen. yeah, well, you mentioned how important because that's what you're kinda stuck on stuck kept

for so long because it's in the beginning of the or, and of course russia, we're still in the troops outskirts. i'm hoping to get the concessions they wanted . and again, this was done by the weekend, however, dismissed in the work, but of course the problem for the roches, where they have this long, unprotected supply lines, which made them very much more. so the amanda disposition and, but this was at the starting point. everything, i see there a different strategy. but again, the narrative snail reflects kimura, which you know, ukrainian talks are starting to see things. there are some time. and you know, so you know, the mighty russian military machine has been destroyed by the cranium. also have the stories amongst mattress, you know, there goes the key will remember the airplane or just shut down all the russians. guy. lin. yeah. make island. you know, this way, you know, russians for the russian worship also to be it doesn't matter

because the narrative still still space. they still have the science show. and so the western, you know, it also say so is this need to hold onto the narrative and this is also problematic point and it's got forced to take this position and you know, so for example, i'm personally horrified by what's happening in ukraine is devastating. but you're saying, listen, we should push towards political settlement, talk to the russians, at least, even if it doesn't start to dialogue now, to see where the possibility is for making these, well, that would be anti ukraine. and now i'm curious the pro ration because now i'm saying, well, if i wanted to make peace now with the craziness, that means well, i have to make some confession. so not being asking for your credit is to surrender . so you're not allowed to call for peace that history in this role. so and,

and so you have, you have to take one of the fish, which is the pro, is there one and with all the strange and efficient switch that doesn't necessarily make sense. so it's, it's very confusing and just one final notice it goes beyond the narrative. it's george, all pointed out that also implies manipulating the language. so what thinks meant before? it's not even more so what's happening with the sanctions or the economic recession now hitting across the west. well, us is always the by the administration is simply change the meaning of recession. there's nothing recession. this is what we saw, a mother was wrong and the oldest soldier surrendered, who also surrendered. it wasn't evacuation as it turned out when they put down their weapons and surrendered and then the russian captivity. this was an evacuation that was repeated across the western media. so we just changed the language instead of you know, to fit with american it's is quite extraordinary and it's,

it's not good for us either is not pro russian on far less than argue is bad for us in the west as well. you know, vitamin with one of the things i find very interesting is that because there is no dialogue a blanket in love, roth did speak, but a verb that the read outs is talking about this prisoner exchange, which i'm for the interested parties. i'm sure it's very, very important, but in the, in the, in the scheme of things, you know, it is a doesn't bode well for any time soon. the conflict in ukraine to come to an end. and i would, i would posit, because zalinski is not interested in the, the europeans have been cowed into silence. um, the, the russians will then they would, they'll say we don't have a partner. there's nobody competent to talk to in washington. they're all the phones, they don't really understand what they're doing. i'm the secretary of defense as we want. our plan is to weaken russia. i guess that's sending a signal to the kremlin. what do you know? what kind of been a locker they have?

and i would, i would posit then this conflict will come to an end, will come to an end when russians are ready for it to end. and i'd like to point out to everyone, this conflict will come to an end under russia's terms in time table. when russia is come to the conclusion, i'm thinking about the 2 letters that were sent in december on december 17th, when the nato went to the united states about russia, security guarantees, russia will determinant unilaterally. and they'll say they're done thoughts. yeah, i agree with you and i think that's, that's the damage on the ground and the western denied by in our separation. i was ordering a speech by introducing or all those things, but no sooner or later. that's how it will end. what is said about that to, to, to get there. a lot of people will be killed in an tremendous damage to the most basic democratic principles will be done. because basically, the behavior all blink blink shannon bided. this is childish behavior,

united states, nato. they were talking to sonya to russia. they were talking to, sorry, the lesser invaded project. i guess they would go into sort of irrational they, when you were she, they were concerned with these. they were concerned with the freedom of speech. they were going to now all of a sudden, you know, over this conflict they just suppressed the basic principles of us. and if you try to write something on facebook, which goes against the narrative, bam, you know, type of counseling, one of the most popular a percentage is 70000000 people listen to him or know he's a hairdresser, they, this child is behavior, which is it in other words u. s. children themselves, not only just, you know, fortune, you know, make millions of people in the slavic lands, but, you know, they go to themselves, but that's what disturbing, you know, going on and on. i mentioned in my introduction about with a the risk of cancellation. in this there has been an asserted attempt to count, so all of russia russian's russian culture, russian history. the works ok,

but i would pause in the west is self cancelling itself in many ways because the, the global south in china, they just, they, they're not on board. they will not get on board at the west finds itself isolated . something that we're talking about language rush is isolated at the same time. putting in lab robert, traveling a busy schedule. there's no global consensus against russia on this. and i would posit the west as isolating himself. the global cell no longer fears the west and doesn't respect the west anymore. luck last word goes to you. but i agree. and i think that this has been one of the major shock. so here in the west this, you know, again, this is a narrative, not the whole world is united behind you in behind the west islip thrush, a ton of nato is not that many in the countries and all that according to the west instead of it doesn't mean that they're supporting russia just mean

stuff. this one is a proxy war between nato and russia for the cost, the cost of ukrainian sunday. they didn't want to pick a sign in this. i mean, everyone's a russian probably on this will. stephen argument of the po for that, obviously, nato's provoked this, but again, he also falls in the category of this. so it is, it is a shame because this has been the strength of the wes, this being able to have this group and this course and challenge established ideas and a thing like norway watching us here are you see you next time? remember? oh i ah,

[000:00:00;00] with this i was told that lies live on our t as the un calls for an urgent investigation into the death of russian john list diarrhea due gonna as moscow release as evidence that she was killed by someone working for you. praying in special force this is just one of many houses that was destroyed by the shilling of ukrainian nationalist. and there are hundreds of houses like this all around the city. i'll see if it's i don't yet to cost but all to hear from civilian wounded by ukrainian land mines in residential