as the was done as a what i see the senior bus is the little gear medation says do you do gun bob? a news and tax on other countries. economic sanctions are often just the beginning. another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about here. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. we have

a responsibility for the whole world. and we need to make rules for the rest because without out there will be can do. oh, you're watching r t international. we interrupt the schedules. we are going live for an interview with former, a pakistani prime minister in ron count, who is standing by to speak to r t. mr. can you're very welcome to our, to international thank you for your time today. my pleasure. on both a political and human level, it's been an extraordinary and i imagine stressful week for you, culminating today in an islam a bad court, extending a no arrest bail for 7 more days. so firstly, how are you?

well, in some ways it's the best of times and some ways is the worst of times. why is the best of times? because since i left office 4 months back, never has there been such a public response for, for any political party as it is for my body today. so in that sense, you know, it's for us, for a political person who's struggling for 26 years to raise awareness amongst the public. i think it is one of the best time for us, for my party, for me it's, it's very satisfying to see a politically aware public understanding issues coming out on streets by themselves to stand up for the right. on the the other hand it's

a bad diamond focused on because we have, we are descending into fascism. we have a government which has no credibility amongst the people. it is it, we call it and imported government. it. the economy has dant. inflation has gone through the roof, it has lost all credibility, and so it is compensating by, by the lack of credibility, by imposing this object. coney and measures on us on the deck, clamping down on the media deck, clamping down against jealousy. there instituted various cases against me, one of them of the terrorism guess which is, you know, which is actually a joke. so it's bad in a way that the government is panicking. they out there watching us growing

popularity. we. we swept the bi election and the biggest province and job there with the other 2 bi election which we slept. c so there, but scared and that's why they're clumping down. since your speech on saturday, where the opposition is alleging that you threatened the police and members of the judiciary. they have essentially been li billing you a terrorist on terrorism charges is what you would be standing on as someone who led the country just months ago. what do you feel when you hear about allegation against you? well, let me for your viewers. let me put it in context one of by the people by stuff of my office. he was picked up he,

he made a remark on television which, which was misconstrued as if he's trying to start mute the in the, in the army. but it's debatable. he never got, it still hasn't gotten a chance to clarify what he said. he was actually talking about rule of law. the picked him up, the abducted him dude is that kept him and tortured him? they've sexually tortured him. and. and so what happened was that this now this report is now in the, in the high court of the daughter office of my aid were just shabazz gill. and so my, i made 2 remarks. i said we will not, we will not spare those people who are responsible. i the police chief and as a 2nd in command, we said we would take legal action against them. and then there was this magistrate

who, knowing that the he was tortured, still sent him back to the police. so we said we would take legal action against board the magistrate and the police. now, this does not constitute terrorism, but they have no, they're. busy so desperate they have made this into a terrorism case, the bad my life coverage on, on, on, on the screen. and they're trying to ban me from politics because there's a case of contempt against me. so it is what i feel as desperation. because this does not constitute debtor them in any sense of the would you ask him to take legal action against those officials who allows his daughter, daughter which is banned in august on. this does not mean that you're a terrorist. so, but it's the desperation. then there's petrified that have elections take place,

we will sweep the election. that's what i was going job. your supporters say this is all a campaign by the ruling leadership to remove you from the political landscape altogether. so who are, what are your views behind this campaign? to silence you well, the government, the government is behind it because, you know, they came in for a conspiracy. and the conspiracy was foreign backed and, and then there was what they expected was that once i was removed, i would lose all popularity amongst the public. normally when a government goes, people distribute sweets, so they expected that you know, this would just died down, my party would best break up. but the reverse happens. people came out on the streets. millions of people came out on the streets when i was removed,

protesting against the it's never happened in august. and before that a government goes and people come out in the streets to protest. and then as i said before, we had massive rallies that tried to clag don't on us thinking that they would scare us, but the valleys increased. we out of the 20 by elections and job, we swept 15 and then there were 2 other bi election which we won. so this has scared them. they are now faring that if whatever the next elections are, which, which are the outside i, in a years died there, petrified that when the elections take place, they will be wiped out. so that's why they're trying to take these measures. and it's really the government and it's back as they're all watered. well, allow me to delve into some of the issues you've brought up. if we go back, mr. come to when you are, ice did from power in the spring time. you've mentioned several times that certain

documents exist that confirm foreign interference in your removal from power. are you in any position to tell us what those documents may be? well the, the sofa and the conversation between the biggest and best and washington and the under secretary of state of the you of the u. s. there is a conversation between them where he threatens the progress on the investor. that unless i am wrong, con was removed as a prime minister in a no confidence emotion that but that still wasn't table as yet that there would be consequences of august on any sites that trip by the trip i took to russia. he sites that as one of the reason that cypher exists. i brought it in front of the cabinet. i presented it to the national

security council because it was blatant interference from outside because after the cipher, the no confidence motion was terrible against me. and then suddenly, members of my wife, he started leaving and the allies started abandon us and all is triggered off to after that the u. s. embassy was meeting members of political party were the ones who jumped ship 1st. and this is few months before this, this happened. so we the, the president of august, and i sent that cipher to the, to the chief justice of august on. and he's asked him to conduct inquiry into this for an interference into this regime change. the west has made many attempts to pressure pockets on to change its neutrality on the ukraine conflict. why do you think that bothers them so much?

isn't one of the main pillars of western democracy, the right to determine a national pop. so countries like pakistan can make their own choices in their own national interests. well look, you know, country is foreign policy must be for the benefit of their own public. 220000000 bug, a son is elected, be my bride. he had to be there, what is good for their benefit, their rights, that interests that has to be my priority. and so, when i took the trip to russia, and this was all the stakeholders on board, the idea was that we would improve our relationship with russia. and we would, you know, we have trading links with russia. we want to improve the trading links. we're already a pipeline, a gas pipeline was,

was being planned 56 years back before i came to power. so we wanted to cement that contract and then we wanted to buy cheaper oil from, from russia, as well as wheat. because we, you know, we have to buy about 2000000 tons of we, we, there's a shortage of budget. but more importantly, at this time, when the commodities super cycle was taking place, when the energy prices with sky high, we want to buy cheaper russian or like india, india buying 30 to 40 percent discount rate oil from russia. so we want to do the same because 100000000 budget sundays of hon. 50000000 below the poverty line. 50000000 just above the poverty line. so when the, when the prices go up, when inflation bites in western countries, they only, they just have a drop in the standard of living in our country. people go below the poverty line.

they're going to have to square be the day. so my interest was the people are focused on, and obviously this didn't go down well. well, just a couple more points on that. western countries are trying to isolate moscow and make it a pariah. but the comes, i would suggest are pretty negative for everyone involved when you sanction a country like russia, the energy crisis in europe. now it proves the point. is that fir towards russia and why does the west attempt to drive pakistan into this? see the, that the problem developing countries like oz, the problems we face, the biggest problem is that western countries expect their problems to become our problems. so this is basically a european problem. it's not just on the problem. what up august suns,

problems in the western countries don't kind of consider their own problems. so for instance, there is a conflict between bargenson and india about kashmir. for for since 1948, there's a unit un security council resolution which makes should be the dispute territory between august on an india and the people of could be it through a plebiscite. was supposed to decide whether they wanted to be with in the august. i did the last 30 years, 100000 casualties. have died in this struggle for independence. so whenever we go to one forums or we talk to the western country leaders, we talked about what's happening and push me to human rights abuses. india has taken over the statehood of kush beard and 2019 august and unconstitutionally

illegally. yet no one responds to this, no one thinks of sanctioning and no one things of condemning. and yet, when this is a european conflict, you know, forget about the, the moral morality of the conflict. but the fact is, it is not just on conflict, yet they want us to take a position on this and condemn russia. my point is that condemning russia, you have to have the luxury to condemn countries on moral issues. we don't have that luxury, you know, condemning countries can cost up people a lot. it can push people below the poverty line. therefore, we want the luxury to be neutral, and that's what we want, i think. and that's what ended in the, is a, as a strategic partner of the u. s. and yet it is trading with, with russia. it's buying the oil and it says beautiful. but it does look like a rush or it's, it just says we are new to can pakistan withstand, pressure though,

county county can't stand off and say it's not necessary to choose sides. we're going to act in our own national interests 1st. that's what every country should have the right to do. if you have 100000000 people who are wonderful, they should become your priority. and we should be able to tell a super power, like the united states that look, you know, you know, we would like to take positions. but unfortunately, our situation does just says don't allow us to take positions. so allow us to be neutral, you know, be big about just for you all. for the view, we joined the us war on terror debt or after $911.00. we begin to partner the total number of people who died in the twin does the tragic event. the dentist attack that took place a twin does what less than $3000.00 bargains done when it bought dissipated in the

us war on terror. 80000 august and he's look and we will. our country was devastated. 3 and a half 1000000 people were internally displaced and we had over a $100000000000.00 loss to the economy. so, lucky son paid a huge price for participating in someone and it was. and my point is that we should on countries which have huge amounts of poverty like our country blunderbuss people will you know, who should be a min priority. we should not be able to, we should not be forced into other people's conflicts. just another aspect on this, if i may, is the blame on russia essentially for all of the world energy was right now, a little too convenient, seeing as we've just come through to years of extreme at covert locked, dines you, of course. so the 1st time being pakistan prime minister during all the time.

so what, sorry, what did you want me to ask you? what is the fact that the west is blaming russia for all of the energy woes around the world? right now? it's not a little bit too convenient for, frankly, i'm, i don't believe resolving issues through conflicts. although, you know, there are 2 sides of the argument in this, in the ukraine, russia conflict, russian. when i met president boot and he talked about security of russia, which was, which was his biggest issue. and that's why, you know, he gave all the reasons how he sent signals and warnings. and he had understandings with western leaders about why it was important for the vote, for russia to have a zone which was demilitarized. and on the other hand,

the western view is very simple. they think there's a aggression my, my, i have always inherited the believe that got a military solutions are always counterproductive because i always believe that you, you go into a conflict to resolve one issue and then a multi intervention leads to other issues. and so i propose, basically the iraq war, i oppose the war and a lot of fun. and i, and i feel that, you know, it's not the way, but, you know, we want to stay out of it because there are 2 points of views. the one russian point of view and what is the european point of view? and so people like us countries like us, should have the luxury of staying out of it. you have been criticized for being too close to russia and present them, put and how is your relationship with them or putting

well, i've only met a president put in twice once was at a conference in michigan. the 2nd time was this meeting. i didn't realize that when we would reach that and the next morning when i was going to have my meeting with him, that there would be this envision in euclid and i didn't expect it. so, you know, i had a long chat with president food and my main interest as really odd relation, barguss's under nation ships with russia. because in the future the biggest son can gain a lot from this relationship. and i repeat, we have our energy needs gas. secondly, we oil from russia, and then thirdly, as wheat by august, side of the country of to 20000000 people growing fast. and we have the shortage of weed, which is, you know, as, you know, as essential, basic staple died of, of

a population. so year my whole idea was cementing our relationship and these terms and trading terms, mutually beneficial for both. ok, if we can return to your situation, sir. and if you stand trial in the high court next week and are convicted, you would be disqualified for life from politics as no convicted person can run for office. but is going to court something you will have to do at some stage if you want to become prime minister again. look, you know, i don't know how the god is going to do this. i mean, any court, how are they going to can make someone for saying that they would take legal action against those and sponsible for perpetuating a daughter custodial daughter it's band. so how is everyone going to band

me on terrorism? because i am saying that this custodial daughter and we will take legal action against those responsible. that's exactly what i said. how can anyone be bound for this? how can anyone be back even convicted for terrorism for the sake that. busy it's, i don't know what they were, but i think if they go that far, i just think that there will be a huge commotion in the country. people are never going to accept it. when you mentioned you are barred from the air waves, sir, does not having access to television. does that affect your fight and your supporters fight greatly? because i know your social media presence is huge. 17 and a half 1000000 followers on twitter, for instance. do you need to be on television at all?

well, social media, you know, that's, that's something which all fascist regina that tried to clam down on information. it's very difficult for them to clam down on social media. and they have tried, i mean the government during my speech, they tried to disrupted youtube for a while, because that banned me on televisions on youtube that tried to cause destruction. but it's very difficult. i mean, the, the legs they will have to go to clam down on social media is going to be very difficult. even media, i think for a while, for, for, for some time, they might just temporarily, they clam down on it. but electronic media eventually depends on viewership, and the out of so many channels, the one or 2 channels that show us, the viewership goes through the roof. so the d v channels are going to lose money

if they don't show the, the party that is by far the most popular party, the only federal party in the country. it's just not, you know, commercially, it won't make sense to them. so i don't think it's the government isn't affects the panicking and then panic. they're taking these dickless fascist measures. but this is the solution. the gun stop the popularity of a body growing by taking these decisions. especially if they take that even a big clammed on, on the electron electronic media. the social media is something they can stop the con clam down on for, for any length of time. what will you do next week if that bill does not change and you are being forced to go to court, will you go well, i have to go to court. i've got this heading on the 30th, so yes,

i'll be going to go look all my life. let me just say all my life. i have always stayed within the law. and one takes, i've been for 26 years. i have always all my protests, everything between the, between the limits of the law and limits of the constitution because i am a constant useless. i'm a democrat and i don't believe that you should go outside the constitution because then you open up a friend or a box. and so what they're doing right now is trying to call me when this case. they will find it very difficult because the people of this country have known me for 50 years. i mean, before i joined politics, i was one of the top sports star in the country for a decade. so didn't know me for a long time. so it's not going to be very easy for them just to, to band me. it's,

you know, people won't accept it. he called the whole process leading pakistan into it looks like a banana republic from the outside. what did you mean by that? well, i mean, for a start i what the did, but by the chief of staff shabazz girl, you don't just any, you know, he's an assistant assistant professor at an american university. see he was just picked up, abducted and tortured and sexually abused. so this, i mean, doesn't have it in civilized society, but the worst thing is that, you know, when i wanted to have legal proceedings against the police and those who were responsible then slap the stairs a case on this doesn't happen a civilized society. so that's what i meant by a banana public with the sending these guys the government of trucks. by the way,

60 percent of the government is on bail on corruption charges. so they're so desperate that they are digging all these measures, which is taking focused on making it into a band or a public. but are you not concerned that the, the amount of your followers on the streets constantly is going to make out the situation worse? look, i mean if the girl ridiculous step, how would i know what the followers would react? but all i know is that the night they were going to come to arrest, be thousands of people disappeared outside mouths and surrounded, miles and not just dead in cities. thousands of people just came out on the streets . so, you know, because they know who, i mean the people know what is going on. the level of political awareness is so much because of social media because of the mobile phone. everyone knows what's

going on. so the response was immediate. the moment virus florence gave out the responses was immediate in the streets. so, you know, if they go the same direction, i can see what will happen, but i feel that they will be immense, huge, unprecedented street protests. and do you think that the current government is going to try something else to, to clump down on your supporters to silence those people? well, they already have, you know, on friday for may when my we were conducting a peaceful protest. i mean, the sort of clam down, the thousands of people in jail they, i mean, they rated people's houses at night. it's never happened before. you know, it was like as if we were terrorist, it was a peaceful protest. and you know,

when i was in government 3 and a half years, there were 3 times there were there was sort of sitting in islam, but against my government, we never stopped anyone. we never josh, any people, we never put people in jail, but does government, you know, on the 25th of may which was a black day for us. did really, i mean they injured people. 2 people died so many people got injured and they put people in jail, it was a proper clap dog. so that's desperation. and just finally because he's been very good with your time. how do you see this playing? but by what you've been saying, you're not going to stun down from the optic in the oppositions reaction. they don't look as if they're going to, sir. how does this play it? in your opinion. there is only one solution. at the moment i've gone to me is gone down. we have unprecedented inflation. what is

called the consumer price index? when we were in pod and remember this is despite the commodity super cycle all over the was ours was 16 percent. today the consumer price index as growth, 42 percent. so inflation has gone through the roof. people are hurting the electricity prices. we get the, when the, when the electricity builds game, there, protest growing all over budgets and people gone to for the electricity. it's again, more than doubled since we left and 4 months is more than doubled. so the, the inflation as the sky economy is dangling exports going down, you know, of the unemployment non, because the industry is at closing because of these heavy costs and on predictability. so the only solution where bargenson is.