hello, mr. katrina. this is becoming a bullying incident with the miner was sheila were banning all imports of russian oil and gas looting. i may weigh sabrina, i mean an eloquently of laura griffith's, at the, for the look at middleware. pretty different joe biden and imposing these sanctions on russia. jo has destroyed the american economy. so there's you boomerang. ah ah. mr. can, you're very welcome to our, to international thank you for your time today. my pleasure. on both a political and human level, it's been an extraordinary and i imagine stressful week for you, culminating today in an islam

a bad court extending and no arrest bail for 7 more days. so firstly, how are you? well, in some ways, or is the best of times and some ways is the worst of times. why is the best of times? because a since i left office for months back, never has there been such a public response for, for any political party as it is for my body to do so in that sense, you know, it's for us, for a political person who's struggle for 26 years to raise awareness amongst the public. i think it is a one of the best times for us, for my party, for me it's, it's very satisfying to see a politically aware public understanding issues coming out on streets by themselves to stand up for the rights. ah, on the the other hand, it's

a bad diamond bug. it's on because we have, we are descending into fascism. we have a government which has no credibility amongst the people. it is it, we call it and imported government. it. the economy has dant. inflation has gone through the roof, it has lost all credibility, and so it is compensating by, by the lack of credibility, by imposing this object. coney and measures on us on the deck, clamping down on the media deck, clamping down against jealous, instituted various guesses, a guess be one of them is a terrorism case, which is, you know, which is actually a joke. so it's bad in a way that the government is panicking there watching us growing popularity. we we

swept the thing by elections and the biggest province in punjab. there with the other 2 bi election which was swept. so there, but scared and that's why they're clumping down since your speech on saturday, where the opposition is alleging that you threatened the police and members of the judiciary. they have essentially been labeling you a terrorist on terrorism charges is what you would be standing on. as someone who led the country just months ago, what do you feel when you hear about allegation against you? well, let me for your viewers. let me put it in context. one of by the chief of my stuff of my office. he was picked up. it, he made a remark on television which, which was misconstrued as if he is trying to stir mutely in the,

in the army. but it's debatable. he never got it. he still hasn't gotten a chance to clarify what he said. he was actually talking about rule of law that picked him up the abducted him dude is the kept him a daughter at him? are there sexually tortured him and and her so what happened was that, this now this report is now in the, in the a high court of the daughter of the sir of my age were just shabazz gill. and so my, i met 2 remarks. i said we will not, we will not spare those people who are responsible. i the police chief and as and a 2nd in command, we said we would dig legal action against them. and then there was this magistrate who, knowing that this, he was tortured,

still sent him back to the police. so we said we would take legal action against both the magistrate and the that the police. now, this does not constitute terrorism, but there have now they're so desperate. they're made this into a terrorism case, the ban my life coverage on, on, on, on screen and, and they're trying to ban me from politics because there's a case of contempt against me. so it is, or what i feel as desperation, because this does not constitute a debtor ism, in any sense of the word you asking to dig legal action against those officials who allowed this torture daughter which is bandon bug is done. this does not mean that you're a terrorist. so, but it's the desperation. then there's petrified that if elections take place, we will sweep the elections. that's what i was going to ask. your supporters say

this is all a campaign by the ruling leadership to remove you from the political landscape altogether. so who are, what are your views behind this campaign to silent you? well, the government, the government is behind it because, you know, they came in through a conspiracy, and the conspiracy was foreign backed and, and then there was what they expected was that once i was removed, i would lose all popularity amongst the public. normally when a government goes, people distribute sweets, so they expected that you know, this would just die down. my body would just the best break up. but the reverse happened. people came out on the streets. millions of people came out on the streets when i was removed, protesting against the it's never happened in august run before that

a government goes and people come out in the streets to protest. and then as i said before, we had massive rallies that tried to crack down on us thinking that they would scare us. but the rallies increased. we out of the 20 by elections and job. we swept 15 and then there were 2 other bi election which we won. so this has scared them. they're now ferrying that if whatever the next elections are which, which are the outside in a year's time. they're petrified, but when the elections take place, they will be wiped out. so that's why they're trying to take these measures and it's really the government and added back as there are water. will allow me to delve into some of the issues you've brought up. if we go back, mr. come to when you are, ice did from power in the spring time. you've mentioned several times that certain documents exist that confirm foreign interference in your removal from power. are

you in any position to tell us what those documents may be? well, the, the sofa and the conversation between the biggest and best and washington, and the under secretary of state of the you of the u. s. there's a conversation between them where he threatens the pakistani investor. that unless i am ron hahn was removed as a prime minister in a no confidence emotion that but that still wasn't table as yet that there would be consequences for bugging on any sites that drip. by the trip i took to russia, he sites that as one of the reasons, so we, that cipher exists. i brought it in front of the cabinet. i, we, i presented it to the national security council because of a blatant interference from outside. because after the cipher, the no conference motion was terrible against me. and then suddenly,

members of my body started leaving on the allies, started abandon us. and all was triggered off after that. the u. s. embassy was meeting members of up, but a pickup party who were the ones who jumped 1st ship 1st. and this is few months before this, this happened. so we the, the president up august and i sent that cipher to the, to the chief justice of august on. and he's asked him to conduct an inquiry into this for an interference into this regime change. the west has made many attempts to pressure pockets on to change its neutrality on the ukraine conflict. why do you think that bothers them so much? isn't one of the main pillars of western democracy, the right to determine a national pop. so countries like pakistan can make their own choices in their own

national interests. well, look, you know, country is foreign policy must be for the benefit of their own public. 220000000 bug, a son is elected, be my bride. he had to be there, what is good for their benefit, their rights, that interests that has to be my priority. and so what i had took the trip to russia and this was all the stakeholders von board. the idea was that we would improve our relationship with russia, and we would, you know, we have trading links with russia. we want to improve the trading links. we already were a pipeline. a gas pipeline was, was being planned 56 years back before i came to power. so we wanted to cement that contract and then we want to buy cheaper oil from, from russia,

as well as wheat. because we, we, we have to buy about $2000000.00 tons of wheat we, there's a shortage of bug. it's done. but more importantly, at this time, when the commodities super cycle was taking place, when the energy prices sky high, we want to buy cheaper russian or like india, india as buying 30 to 40 percent discount rate oil from russia. so we want to do the same because 100000000 bargain, sundays of hon. 50000000 below the poverty line. 50000000 just above the poverty line. so when the, when the prices go up, when inflation bites in western countries, they only, they just have a drop in the standard of living in the country. people go below the poverty line, they're going to have to square be the day. so my interest was the people up august on and obviously this didn't go down when, well, just a couple more points on the western countries are trying to isolate moscow and make

it a pariah. but the i comes, i would suggest, are pretty negative for everyone involved when you sanction a country like russia, the energy crisis in europe. now it proves the point. is that fir towards russia, and why does the west attempt to drag pakistan into this? see the problem developing countries like oz, the problems we face. the biggest problem is that western countries expect their problems to become our problems. so this is basically a european problem. it's not biased on problem. what up august suns, problems? the western countries don't, can just consider their own problems. so for instance, there is a conflict between pakistan and india. about kush, we've fought for since $948.00. there's

a unit, un security council resolution which makes me the dispute territory between pakistan and india. and the people of kush weird through a plebiscite was supposed to decide whether they wanted to be with in the august. i did the last 30 years, 100000 casualties have died in this struggle for independence. so whenever we go to world forums or we talk to the western country leaders, we talked about what's happening in kashmir, human rights abuses. india has taken over the statehood of kush beard and 2019 august and unconstitutionally illegally. yet no one responds to this, no one thinks of sanctioning and no one things of condemning. and yet when this is a european conflict, you know, forget about the, the moral morality of the conflict. but the fact does,

it's not just on conflict yet. they want us to take a position on this and condemn russia. my point is that condemning russia, you have to have the luxury to condemn countries on moral issues. we don't have that luxury, you know, condemning countries can cost up people a lot. it can push people below the poverty line. therefore, we want the luxury to be neutral. and that's what we want, i think. and that's what ended in the, is a, as a strategic partner of the u. s. and yet it is trading with, with russia. it's buying the oil and it stays neutral. it doesn't condemn rush, or it just says we are new to can pakistan withstand pressure though kat county county stand up and say it's not necessary to choose sides. we're going to act in our own national interest 1st. that's what every country should have the right to do. if you have 100000000 people who are wonderful,

they should become your priority. and we should be able to tell a super power like the united states that look, you know, you know, we would like to take positions. but unfortunately, our situation does just don't allow us to take positions. so allow us to be neutral, you know, be big about just for your, for the viewers. we joined the us war on terror debtor. after $911.00, we begin the bottom. the total number of people who died in the twin does the tragic event. the dentist attack that took place and when does less than $3000.00 y gets done when it dissipated in the us war on terror. $80000.00 pakistan is looking and we were going to was devastated. 3 and a half 1000000 people were internally displaced. and we had over $100000000000.00 last to the economy. so budget son paid

a huge price for participating in someone else's war. and my point is that we should don't countries which have huge amounts of poverty like countries wonder, but people are, you know, who should be a main priority. we should not be able to, we should not be forced to do other people's conflict. just another aspect on this, if i may, is the blame on russia essentially for all of the world energy. whoa, is right now, a little too convenient, seeing as we've just come through to years of extreme. at colbert loc, dines, you, of course, sold out at 1st town being pakistan, prime minister during all the time. you see, frankly i'm, i don't believe resolving issues through conflicts. although, you know, there are 2 sides of the argument in this, in the ukraine, russian conflict, russian. when i met president boot and he talked about security of russia,

which was, which was the biggest issue. and that's why, you know, he gave all the reasons how he sent signals and warnings, and he had understandings with western leaders about why it was important for, for, for russia to have a zone which was demilitarized. and on the other hand, the western view is very simple. they think that the aggression, my, my, i have always inherited the believe that got a military solutions are always counterproductive because i always believe that you, you go into a conflict to resolve one issue. and then a military intervention leads to other issues. and so i will post basically the iraq war, i oppose the war and a lot of fun. and i, and i feel that, you know, it's not the way, but, you know, we want to stay out of it because there are 2 points of views. the one ration point

of view and what is the european point of view. and so people like us countries like us, should have the luxury of staying out of it. you have been criticized for being too close to russia and present and put and how is your relationship with vladimir putin? well, i've only met a president put in twice once was at a conference in michigan. the 2nd time was this meeting. i didn't realize that when we would reach that. and the next morning when i was going to have my meeting with him, that there would be this envision in ukraine. i didn't expected. so, you know, i had a long chat with president put in my main interest as really odd relation bugs under nation ship with russia. because in the future there's a bargain on can gain a lot from this relationship and i repeat,

we have energy needs gas. secondly, we oil from russia, and then thirdly, as wheat by august, side of the country of to 20000000 people growing fast. and we have the shortage of weed, which is, you know, as you know, is essential for basic staple diet of, of a population. so year my whole idea was cementing our relationship and these terms and trading terms, mutually beneficial for both. ok, if we can return to your situation, sir. and if you stand trial in the high court next week and are convicted, you would be disqualified for life from politics as no convicted person can run for office. but is going to court something you will have to do at some stage if you want to become prime minister again. look, you know,

i don't know how the cord is going to do this. i mean, any court, how are they going to convict someone for saying that they would take legal action against those once a but for perpetuating dodger custodial, georgia. it's banned. so how is everyone going to ban me on terrorism? because i'm saying that the custodial daughter and we will take legal action against those responsible. that's exactly what i said. how can anyone be bad for the how can anyone be bad, even convicted for terrorism for sake that so it's, i don't know what they were, but i think if they go that far, i just think that there will be a huge commotion in the country. people are never going to accept it. you mentioned you are barred from the airwaves, sir. does not having access to television does not affect your fight and your

supporters fight greatly because i know your social media presence is huge. 17 and a half 1000000 followers. on twitter for instance. do you need to be on television at all? well, social media, you know, that's, that's something which all fascist regina that tried to clam down on information. it's very difficult for them to clam down on social media and they have tried, i mean the government during my speech to try to disrupted youtube for a while. because that banned me on televisions on youtube to try to cause destruction. but it's very difficult. i mean, the, the legs they will have to go to clam down on social media is going to be very difficult. even media, i think for a while, for, for, for some time, the, the, my, just temporarily the plan down on it. but electronic media eventually depends on

viewership. and the, the, the out of so many channels, the one or 2 channels that show us that you ship goes through the roof. so the uh, the d v channels are going to lose money if they don't show the, the body that is by far the most popular party, the only federal party in the country. it's just not, you know, commercially, it won't make sense to them. so i don't think it's the government isn't affects their panicking and then panic, they're taking these ridiculous fascist measures. but this is the solution, the gun stop the popularity of a party growing by taking these decisions. and especially if they take that even at the clam done on the electron electronic media, the social media is something they can stop the gun clam down on for, for any length of time. what will you do next week if that bill does

not change and you are being forced to go to court, will you go? well, i have to go to court. i've got this heading on the 30th, so yes, i'll be going to go look all my life. let me just say all my life i have all was did within the law. and one of the 6 i've been for 26 years. i have always all my protests, everything up between the, between the limits of the law and limits of the constitution because i am a constitutionalist. i'm a democrat and i don't believe that you should go outside the constitution because then you open up and order a box. and so what they're doing right now is trying to call me when this case. they will find it very difficult because the people of this country have known me for 50 years. i mean, before i joined politics,

i was one of the top sports star in the country for 2 decades. so they know me for a long time. so it's not going to be very easy for them just to, to band me. it's, you know, people won't accept it. you've called the whole process leading pakistan into it looks like a banana republic from the outside. what did you mean by that? well, i mean, for a start i what the did, but by the chief of stars, shabazz girl, you don't just and you know, he's in the system. the system professor at an american university see he was just picked up. abducted and tortured and sexually abused. so this, i mean, doesn't have it in civilized society, but the worst thing is that, you know, when i wanted to have a legal proceeding against the police and those were responsible then slap the

terrorism case on me. this doesn't happen in a civilized society. so that's what i meant by a banana public with the sending these guys the government of brooks. by the way, 60 percent of the government is on bail on corruption judges. so they're so desperate that they are digging all these measures, which is taking focused on making it into a band or a public. but are you not concerned that the, the amount of your followers on the streets constantly is going to make the situation worse? look, i mean if the girl ridiculous, how would i know what the followers would react? but all i know is that the night they were going to come to arrest, be thousands of people does a bed outside miles and surrounded miles and not just said in cities, thousands of people just came out on the street. so, you know, because they know who, i mean the people know what is going on. the level of political awareness is so

much because of social media because of the mobile for everyone knows what's going on. so the response was immediate. the moment virus florence gave out the responses was immediate in the streets. so, you know, if they go the same direction, i can see what will happen, but i feel that there will be immense, huge, unprecedented street protests. and do you think that the current government is going to try something else to, to clump down on your supporters to silence those people while they already have a euro on 25th may. when my we were conducting a piece of protest, i mean the sort of clam down, the thousands of people in jail. they, i mean, they rated people, the houses that died. it's never happened before. you know, it was like as if we were terrorism. it was a peaceful protest. and when i was in government 3 and a half years,

there were 3 times they were there were sort of sitting in islam by the guest. by dublin, we never stopped anyone. we never judged any people we never put people in is but this government a, you know, on the 25th of may which was a black there for us. did really, i mean they injured people. 2 people died so many people got injured and put people in jail, it was a proper clap dog. so that's desperation. and just finally because he's been very good with your time. how do you see this playing? but by what you've been saying, you're not going to stun down from the optic in the oppositions reaction. they don't look as if they're going to, sir. how does this play it? in your opinion. there is only one solution. at the moment i got me is gone down,

we have unprecedented inflation. what is called the consumer price index when we were and bought and remember this is despite the commodity super cycle all over the world. ours was 16 percent. today the consumer price index as crossed, 42 percent. so inflation has gone through the roof, people and the electricity prices will, you know, the, when they, when the electricity bills game, the protest growing all over budgets and people can afford electricity. it's again, more than doubled since we left and 4 months is more than doubled. so the, the inflation has had the sky economies tanking, i exports are going down, you know, there's unemployment non, because the industry, the closing because of these heavy costs and unpredictability. so the only solution where pockets on is today

a free and fair elections. nothing else will is going to resolve this problem. this political instability in august on which means that the economy won't stabilize, economic stability depends on political stability. and right now i got to me is banking. there's no one has no one knows what's going to happen in the, in the one month, 2 months from now. and so the only solution, as i repeat, is only solution to get political stability of free and fair elections. well, we thank you greatly for coming on our team international and sharing your views with us today. embrun can't former prime minister of pakistan. thank you for your time on your thoughts with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even

foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk. ah, because one of the most beautiful cities in russia's far east. mm. mm. it's, it's on the, on the river that runs on the russia, china buddha. it was for many years the far eastern capital. mm hm. no shortage of historical sites here. the officers club is one of them.