a more than once in a still furnished or in your sewerage? no, i speak of the girl. okay. well it shows the wrong one. i just don't know. i mean you world yes. to shape out the same becomes the attitude and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, ah.

hello and welcome to cross out. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. probably the most important and impactful piece of political advice ever given was it's the economy, stupid, indeed to economic and financial condition of any public transcends ideology. and it is ideology, neal liberalism, to be specific, to this driving the world into recession. ah, cross sucking the global economy. i'm joined by my guess, michael hudson in new york. he is a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts in north florida. we have tom wango. he is publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog and newsletter. and in los angeles, we crossed to pi, ian. he is a strategic planning consultant, a private equity advisor and independent economic analyst. hi gentlemen, crosshead rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. i always

appreciated, and this is certainly a blue ribbon panel. i act. thank all 3 of you for joining me today. michael, let me go to you 1st year. there seems to be a growing consensus that there is a recession is coming particularly for the west. maybe for the entire global economy. what makes this recession different if it is different whatsoever? because i think all of us would agree a lot of the bad economic news that we're experiencing, particularly in the west, again, is self inflicted. michael? well, when people talk about recessions, they think of a business, a going up and down and then recovering. and this isn't a business cycle. this is a change in the way the world is being organized for one thing, every recession since world war 2. and as i started with recovered with a much higher level of debt. and today the level of debt has grown so much that domestic markets, both in the united states and europe are and the global sounds are unable

to grow grow. the problem is got much worse because the u. s. dollar is going up against the european currency and the global. so currently making it much harder for these countries to pay their dollar denominated debt when they all do this all. and what's really causing a break in the chain of payments and making things much worse than they are now. is the fact that they're going to be continued higher energy prices. i or food prices and countries do not have a not money both to stay. so the feed their populations and pay them for. and so they're going to be a lot of the falls and the only way that they can really get the food and the energy they need is by dealing with russia and i cannot make allies.

and so this recession isn't going to be simply a return back to the normal. and so it's going to be a new economic institutions of bricks, bank, all sorts of swap agreements, not really a payment of dollars. and it will be the dollar rise realignment of much of the world politically will pay kind of to continue with the same theme there. i mean, when we come out of this, if and when we come out of it, because we're just going in to something like this is a how much is it going to change the world? because at the epicenter of this is the west right now. and even more specifically, europe, i don't see what they recovery trajectory is ok because they're cutting off all kinds of options because of ideology, because of neoliberalism and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with self interest. they're leaving themselves behind and it's intentional. go ahead in los angeles. i think the ideology goes much deeper. we're going to expect and more

than likely by longer term design is, are sweeping asset consolidations, trans atlantic leander designed stagflation. in order to pave the way for a world wide, digital integrated monetary system, artificial intelligence base computing, standards, trans, humanistic, adventure ism with technology and biology. and miss serenading and cubing the spear cubing the severe if you will, or circling the square in the strategic sense for very hermetically ambitious trans atlantic a cultish to leach. yeah, but if we had any with that tom, so that means the, the definite decline of the west as the global hedge amman, i mean it being that includes the united states. what, what would pie just said there? is it a complete reordering of the chessboard? go ahead. no, i agree that that's what their plan is. i don't know that they are actually or would be able to pull it off. and i think the, the key is,

as michael's pointed out, that the end you wanted us that was entered here is, is in europe. and the question now is, and my mind, and i've been watching this carefully. is that asked, has there been a break in the, the factions within the, the, the elite as you would, i would called miss avo scrap. right? is there a break between the anglo sphere and the european sphere? i see the federal reserve doing everything that no one wants them to do, which is raise interest rates, be aggressive, engaging shooty, and limit congress's ability to continue to spend and make the united states into what it looks like of fiscal laughing stock. and i see the exact opposite now happening on capital hill, but there's a political pushback behind the scenes as allowing the fed and the commercial banking sector. and usa, you know, we're not going to go for central bank that will currencies. no, we're not going to go over trans humanist technocratic, global control and all the rest of that. and to michael's point, yes, we're going to see a d dollars world,

but i think actually in many ways i think the fed wants out of that fully dollar arised world. if you want my in michael it. traditionally, we looked, we looked at the fed and, you know, and the european central bank for queues here. i mean, it is this way too big for them to handle right now, because i would say they're actually the source of a lot of these problems. and now we're turning them to solve them. well, the problem cannot be so monetary, the problem, structural united states doesn't produce its own manufactures anymore. they're going to be a lot of breaks in the supply chain. the materials, especially the sanctions against russia, not only oil and food, but also the m and e. m. all the other thing, the problem with the central bank in america is they were here that wages are going up and they're wasting the interest rates just to say, you think this is the recession, we need more of a recession. we can't let this recovery res wage here, and they said that the federal reserve been very,

very clear where we want more unemployment. we want to keep the wages down, and so they raise the interest rate that sucks money out of a euro and the global. so i said, well, arbitrage people aren't cheap in their country, lendue a higher rate here, and that's pushing the way the dollar. and that means that because copper raw materials are priced in dollars in the west, that all of us makes all raw materials more expensive, as if it's a boom, or countries outside the united states, or seeing their, their business into a squeeze and into a recession. won't tomlinson, let's talk about the impact of these sanctions here because this was a craven decision on the part of the west to do this angry. and me, with the way i look at it is that the conflict in the ukraine will come to events and eventually here, but the sanctions won't. ok out of hubris, out of pride,

out of ideology. whatever ridiculous reason they have at the moment. ok. because they are ridiculous right now, this is a queue to the rest of the global economy. that is structurally, it is going to change forever. there is no, it's a, i really like what michael had to say. you know, we look at what you traditionally, recession is, you know, you know, there is a depression of the economy gets depressed and then it recovers. but this time it's going to be very, very different when, when all of the dust settles, go ahead. you know, it really is, and the, the, the sanctions, the season, rushes foreign exchange reserves, all of that have done irreparable damage to the confidence of the old system. right? that those things you should be considered in violet. net doing business in dollars . you know, you, your money was say, that was part of the reason why the dollar was able to take over the world. because everybody, you know, and everybody believe that that holding dollars was the safe thing. that u. s. that was not going to be defaulted on yada yada, yada. now we're in a situation today where that had that trust has been gone. the trust has been

broken and you know, in a, in an open market, once trust is gone, it takes years to build up in a day to destroy, which is exactly what happened here. 2 years, the build up trust in the dollar and the dollar in the whole is existing system. and then we've weapon i swiftly weaponized foreign exchange reserves and rest of it . so no, there's going to be a complete change over now when, when you say that, of course, now we have all this misaligned capital, you're all this miss allocated capital, you have all this misaligned risk that's into the markets. now i do disagree that i don't with michael, i don't think at the fed as raising rates to keep labor prices down. that may be his interpretation of it, but we are, we're running. we have labor shortage here in the eyes. this will have an issue with, with labor they have the, where they have the room to ramp up rates. because fiscal fiscally, we're actually in a better shape than people. one with nick we, you know, we have of the lowest debt to just the debt servicing as a percentage of g d p. the country's history. there's no,

there's no stress within the banking system, but that is plenty of room to raise rates here. and they're deliberately draining dollars from the world. they are deliberately trying to stop the euros of the, i think, the euro system. but i called it abstract from taking from controlling monetary policy through the offshore dollar markets. i think they want control their monetary system back and i think it's, it's it's, it's what they have to do in order just to even attempt to save the united states from a political breakdown. yeah. me into the rest of the rest. i, i have notice i've noticed that, you know, the, that the fed wants to make a run to the door 1st and lead the europeans behind. i mean, that's, or it's with allies her for, i suppose here. i would go way in on that because it seems to me that you know, can the dollar return, you know, you know, you know, in the return of the phoenix here, i mean i, i, i just don't see it because when the way these sanctions are being entered, you know, be stealing people's property without any due process of this ridiculous oil cap thing that has, it goes against market forces. i mean, there is no going back pie one minute before we go to the break. first off on

a real rate of unemployment spent in the double digits, essentially since the 2000 a financial crisis, it just hasn't been credibly reported by the government or by media. just the sanctions issue and rook we have dollars being closed in a longer term scheme and arg, dovetailing to a much more traceable a digital technology. but on the sanctions issue, a sanctions are obviously pushing russia to cut energy and other exported resources to the west. but they're also allowing the kremlin to torpedo this 48 year old petronela reserve recycling yet mechanism which allows the u. s. to run perennial accounting, trade deficits, trillions and public and private debt, hundreds of trillions in risky notional derivatives, contracts across finance, and a big stick for punishing rogue regimes. with cutting off capital sanctions food, madison and other necessities rushes, redefining a new global gold standard by tying its rouble to find i gold, bullion, oil and natural gas, which will put a very dangerous dangerous higher permanent floor price on gold and the ruble.

while in turn popping the largest debt in an iron, can't i hold that rod? i have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the global connie state with ah ah

ah ah

ah, welcome back to cross hock where all things are considered. i'm peter belt room and you were discussing the global economy. ah. okay, let's go back to los angeles. i want to go back to you. i'm sorry, had to cut you off. we had to go to that hard break, but you, you are getting into something they think is quite fascinating. only a few months ago. i think all of us would consider that with the rubel was a soft currency. okay. it was, it wasn't a currency that was particularly sought after. now it's very different. it's a, it's the best performing currency in the world because it's backed by what, fill in the blanks for me go ahead. finite, tangible, hard asset, commodities, whether they're monetary commodities in the way of gold, perhaps a lot of silver as well, that it's not being announced. button, foremost of oil and natural gas, russia sits on the largest

a natural gas reserves and is the largest producer on the planet. and as i think, 3rd or 4th as far as oil. so the playbook by john d rockefeller and european leads over the prior century, plus they are basically you surfing and that's the, that's the course sin because john d rockefeller prescriptively prescriptively said, quote, unquote, competition as a sin. and here the kremlin has said ok, but we're going to go ahead and send, we're going to outcompete you. and by the way, we have all the natural resources that we need. so they're calling the dollars bluff over the past 50 plus years after the gold went after the gold window closed by a basically, you know, a forcing everybody to price and trade and reserve or cycle in dollars a by saying that the dollar, you know what it's 12 trillion euro in dad, just to reference professor hudson's earlier point and 29 trillion stated of a u. s. national debt. it's,

it's incredulous to try and claim that this is going to be the perennial, a reserve currency standard. so they're calling the bluff. they're very powerful friends in the, in the way, the chinese, a global south and what not. and hence a, you know, everything's, it's, it's optics, it's a confidence game and confidence is shifting east. and there's a lot of haste on the west to try and how to, how to try and deal with it. okay, let's go back to michael in new york. let's talk about the impact of sanctions here . go ahead. well, president biden, and the secretary of state lincoln, who said that the war in ukraine is simply the beginning of a war with russia that will go on for 20 years and will extend the china. so they plan on bringing the whole world back into the us dollar area, not only europe, but also the global. so the problem is that they think that the united states will be the only actor and the other countries will simply react. but keep on doing what

they've been doing all along within the i m f and the world bank and the world trade organization. so this is not going to happen because if indeed they've declared economic sanctions in war against russia already a president who said, we're going to create a brick span. we're going to create a whole new set of institutions that will operate on very different principles, the neo liberal policies. i've just got to know what i expect to be in my book, the dawn of civilization. so the destiny of civilization. i guess it will be the down of a new one because it is going to be a whole new structure of world trade and world finance and countries. you're going to find the only way that they can literally survive financially. and in terms of trade is to reorient their trade for your asia, for russia, china around india, and already you have argentina and brazil wanting to join break. so while dr.

thinking that they are trying to hurt other countries and force them into the u. s . or u. s. policy is actually driving them out of it are exactly a group you know tom, one of the things i think that we've seen with the reaction on the, the cooperation that the west is a force other attempted to force other is the follow. their lead was sanctions, we school come out with a very different scenario, and i would say, i mean for, and from an ideological point of view, the, the global south no longer has any respect for the west. and it's ridiculous ideas and woke ism and all of that nonsense, which i never talk about because it's a waste of time. but they're not afraid of the west any more. and this is what michael is talking about. because if you can create parallel institutions, you don't need the i m f, you don't need the world bank, you don't need any of these things here. okay? and why go into their for their, their toxic financial system, get out of it. okay,

go ahead. tom, going other guy's going to say exactly that a, you know, it's funny. i think that we need to be careful about what's going on here. i don't believe that the, by the ministration works to the united states. i believe they're bought trader city. you, us, i believe they work for, i believe they work for brussels and european old european colonial money including the brits, including city of london. so when you, when you start to unpack a lot of what's happening here, there's a lot of confusion about what's going on within us policy, right. i and i do separate at this point out that i believe the fed in the commercial banks. typically, our enemies are actually the ones working assiduously to stop this technocratic trans humanist thing that the, that the, the world economic forum and the rest of them are taking that they're talking about that pie was talking about earlier. so once you get that, you sent, you start to realize that, yeah, the global south is not in fear anymore. and i believe that they've not that it started with putin standing up to them over crimea,

and then an intervening and syria. and it's all just been downhill since then as they've worked through the russian for ministry and others with the chinese backing them up to you know, tell everybody. look, we're stronger than when you think we are. and i think nothing is more indicative of this than biden's. meeting with mom had been sama saudi arabia over the weekend . and i'd walk lamp, and that was really pathetic if pine, you know, on this program, we've talked about ideology. we've talked about policies. we've talked about leadership, political classes, but let's talk about the people that feel the impact of all of this. do as the, the industrialized modern west and to have the wherewithal to go through this transition. as long as it takes, it seems to me, you know, boris johnson's gone. druggie is gone. she'll be gone by the end of the year. you could bet money on that. ok. i mean, they, the people are not going to just, they're not going to accept this. i mean, particularly in europe, they're great calling card is where rich compared to everybody in the world.

they're not going to be able to say that much longer considering the path or on go ahead pi. yeah, i mean, people have to realize is that kind of referenced earlier, their 2000 and a financial crisis was fairly pivotal. it wasn't like resolved and everything kind of went back, hunky dory. and we had an a like the quote unquote largest and longest recovery on record. there were a lot of structural faults that were kind of sent me to full permanent and just kind of brushed under the rug. hence the g lay, jaw, or yellow vest protests across, not just france, but a quite a bit of europe. and this is pre coded, pre ukraine war, really kind of almost expediting the need for pushing forward esoteric mandates. in order to revert, you know, you clear the streets through a pandemic, much harder to be writing in paris, certainly on or elsewhere. so that was somewhat effective to a certain extent, the french know their history, their sober, they weren't fooled,

and that sentiment is shared across the global south. i think what we're kind of talking about in the break as far as, you know, the u. k especially and then you know, the commonwealth states and the u. s. really, you know, carol quigley wrote the book, the anglo american strat establishment decades ago because it was a soft, it was an indirect argument the that the u. s. and a dovetail back under empire and all but name as certainly as early as the 1913 federal reserve act. so the belligerents is really begging the question over the stakes. why this severe russo phobia? it's because of what we're talking about earlier. a very potent, very well thought out very well coordinated. a challenge against dollar had gemini, against super imperialism, to quote a professor hudson's earlier text work against petro dollar head gemini, which we have to remember. 197374, went into went and became

a plan in large part bay on the assumption of a u. s. military dom. and so if anybody falls at a line, we whack them back into gear that worked for saddam hussein's iraq that worked for a colonel gadhafi libya. it's not going to work against the massive nuclear powers that just aside from that level of a deterrence capability and collectively have a military force numbering in the 10s of millions where they needed to be deployed . so it's the, hence the sense of haste. the desperation, the rage is because the bluff is being called. and what is going to be? the response is going to be to head off. this is these approaching hazards. western central bank sters will print their respective national currencies into hyper play hyper inflationary oblivion. michael is usually you want to jump in, go ahead. yes, you just made the really important point that you call it a recession,

but we're still in the aftermath of 2008. there wasn't any recovery from 2008. the situation is got worse and worse. and every single country, because of the debts were not written down. president obama kept the debts on the books, and the economy was written down in the united states. in europe, you have the crisis afterwards. you have the global south running up that much more . so it's only a pretense that there was a recovery, it's been going down since 2008. and now it's exhilarating. and regarding the us stance, people say obviously because nato, russia, you think of the west is being highly military. but look at other nato attack on russia as western disarmament. they are they run out of tax. i mean,

i know that means the only way that the west can fight it. ami um, it's the only weapon they have left. no tanks, no rifles, no, no. well extent, but in them or missile only atomic weapon. so it comes as the, the fact that all the united states can do is play the role of wrecker in the world to try to prevent the world from reorganizing along more rational. okay, well we're almost out of time will that will this policy succeed? i'd say it's a or won't i just hope we can avoid a new killer conflict. go ahead. tom finishes, finish our program. i was going to say, i was gonna say i, i, i think that the, the threat of that is a little, well, what i expect here at this next juncture is, nato is going to, is coming, is trying to figure out a false flag to attack russia directly and force them again just to strike verse because that's the way they know the so i put ma, operates so that they can have the moral high ground to then organize something. ah, worse than that,

they have to cover the fact that the debt is so massive. and the way you do that is you take people to war, the people arg, are down with us and it's very clear across the entire west. and i think that there are very powerful forces in the west at this point, supporting that notion and they're doing so at the 40 what talked to us looks like the giant's fighting amongst themselves. we asked on the ground going what the hell is going on? right, this is all about elite agend as it has nothing to do with the rest of us gentlemen or our audience. gentlemen, that fascinating discussion, that's all the time we have a want to thank my guests in new york, los angeles, and in north florida. and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time remember crossed up ah ah ah. no one else

seemed wrong. oh, just a shape out. the same becomes the attitude and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, yes. now, you media visits deploy? yes, sir. q melting. you know them compute the new book is up, but other than that we shall see, radiates the viola showcase in a boiler, fraser,

w boy. ah, [000:00:00;00] a quote on my chair. the shirts, water, my bad, my extra money for the notes of a minute or oh, oh oh oh

i ah with ah, ukraine shells a chemical plant in the don. yes. republic setting fire to the building and halting production. that's just weeks after a similar type in a civilian facility by kia, led to the lead of a cloud of hazardous gas help flood with conditions us congress is being asked to consider a future aid to india should only be given if it improves its human rights record we hear from a former indian foreign secretary who suggests that when it comes to human rights,