crazy one foundation, let it be an arms race is an offense, very dramatic, bad development, only personally and get into this. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical. time time to sit down and talk mr. can you're very welcome to our, to international thank you for your time today. my pleasure. on both a political unhuman level. it's been an extraordinary and i imagine stressful week for you, culminating today in an islamabad court extending and no arrest bail for 7 more days. so firstly, how are you? well, in some ways, or it's the best of times and some ways is the worst of times. why is the best of times? because a since i left office for months back,

never has there been such a public response for, for any political party as it is for my body to do so in that sense, you know, it's for us, for a political person who's struggle for 26 years to raise awareness amongst the public. i think it's a, one of the best times for us, for my party, for me it's, it's very satisfying to see a politically aware public understanding issues. we're coming out on streets by themselves to stand up for the rights on the the other hand or it's a bad diamond pakistan because we have, we are descending into fascism. we have a, a government which has no credibility amongst the people or it, it is, it, we call it an imported government. it. the economy has dant. inflation has

gone through the roof. it has lost all credibility. and so it is compensating by, by the lack of credibility but imposing business object. coney and measures on us on the deck, clamping down on the media deck, clamping down against jealous, instituted various cases against me. one of them of the terrorism guess which is you know, which is actually a joke. so it's bad in a way that the government is panicking out there watching us growing popularity. we, we swept the by elections in the biggest province and punjab. the other 2 bi election which we slept so there, but scared and that's why they're clamping down since your speech on saturday, where the opposition is alleging that you threatened the police and members of the

judiciary. they have essentially been labeling you a terrorist on terrorism charges is what you would be standing on as someone who led the country just months ago. what do you feel when you hear about allegation against you? well, let me for your viewers. let me put it in context one of by the chief of my stuff of my office. he was picked up he, he made a remark on television which, which was misconstrued as if he's trying to start a new t, v in the, in the army. but it's debatable, he never got it. he still hasn't gotten a chance to clarify what he said. he was actually talking about rule of law. they picked him up the abducted him dude. is that give him a daughter to they've sexually tortured him and.

and so what happened was that, this now this report is now in the, in the high court of the daughter of this, of my aid, which is she was getting. and so my, i made 2 remarks. i said we will not, we will not spare those people who are responsible, the police chief and as and a 2nd in command. we said we would take legal action against them. and then there was this magistrate who, knowing that he was tortured, still sent him back to the police. so we said we would take legal action against board the magistrate and the police. now this doesn't constitute terrorism, but they have no, they're so desperate. they have made this into a terrorism case, the ban my life coverage on, on, on, on screen and,

and they're trying to ban me from politics because there's a case of contempt against me. so it is what i feel as desperation, because this does not constitute them in any sense of the word you ask him to take legal action against those officials who allow this torture daughter which is vandenberg. it's done. this does not mean that you're a terrorist. so, but it's the desperation, then there's petrified that if elections take place, we will sweep the elections. that's what i was going to ask. your supporters say this is all a campaign by the ruling leadership to remove you from the political landscape altogether. so who are, what are your views behind this campaign to silence you? well, the government, the government is behind it because, you know,

they came in through a conspiracy. and the conspiracy was foreign backed. and, and then they, what, what they expected was that once i was removed, i would lose all popularity amongst the public. normally when a government goes, people distribute sweets. so they expected that, you know, this would just died down, my body would break up, but the reverse happened. people came out on the streets. millions of people came out on the streets when i was removed, protesting against the it's never happened in august run before that a government goes and people come out in the streets to protest. and then as i said before, we had massive rallies that tried to crack down on us thinking that they would scare us, but the rallies increased. we out of the 20 by elections and job. we swept 15 and then there were 2 other bi election which we won. so this has scared them.

they're now ferrying that if whatever the next elections are which, which are the outside in a year's time. they're petrified that when the elections take place, they will be wiped out. so that's why they're trying to take these measures and it's really the government and added back as there are water. will allow me to delve into some of the issues you've brought up. if we go back, mr. come to when you are, ice did from power in the spring time. you've mentioned several times that certain documents exist that confirm foreign interference in your removal from power. are you in any position to tell us what those documents may be? well, the, the sofa and the conversation between the biggest and best and washington, and the under secretary of state of the you of the u. s. there is a conversation between them where he threatens the pakistani besta that unless i am

ron hahn was removed as a prime minister in a no confidence emotion that but that still wasn't table as yet that there would be consequences of august on any sites that trip by the trip i took to russia, he sites that as one of the reasons, so we, that cipher exists. i brought it in front of the cabinet. i, we, i presented it to the national security council because of a blatant interference from outside. because after the cipher, the no conference motion was terrible against me. and then suddenly, members of my body started leaving and the allies started abandon us. and all was triggered off after that. the u. s. embassy was meeting members of up, but it tickled party who were the ones who jumped 1st ship 1st. and this is few

months before this, this happened. so we the, the president of august and i sent that cipher to the, to the chief justice of august on. and he's asked him to conduct inquiry into this foreign interference into this regime change. the west has made many attempts to pressure pockets on to change its neutrality on the ukraine conflict. why do you think that bothers them so much? is we one of the main pillars of western democracy, the right to determine a national pop. so countries like pakistan can make their own choices in their own national interests. well, look, you know, country is foreign policy must be for the benefit of their own public. 220000000 bug, a son is elected, be my bride. he had to be there, what is good for their benefit, their rights,

that interests that has to be my priority. and so what i had took the trip to russia and this was all the stakeholders von board. the idea was that we would improve our relationship with russia, and we would, you know, we have trading links with russia. we want to improve the trading links. we already were a pipeline. a gas pipeline was, was big plan 56 years back before i came to power. so we wanted to cement that contract and then we want to buy cheaper oil from, from russia, as well as wheat. because we, you know, we, we have to buy about 2000000 tons of wheat we, there's a shortage of august. but more importantly, at this time, when the commodities super cycle was taking place, when the energy prices were sky high, we want to buy cheaper russian or like india, india as buying 30 to 40 percent discount rate oil from russia. so we want to do

the same because 100000000 budget sundays of hon. 50000000 below the poverty line. 50000000 just above the poverty line. so when the, when the prices go up, when inflation bites in western countries, they only, they just have a drop in the standard of living in the country. people go below the poverty line that going to have to square be the day. so my interest was the people up august on and obviously this didn't go down well. well, just a couple more points on the western countries are trying to isolate moscow and make it a pariah. but the outcomes i would suggest are pretty negative for everyone involved when you sanction a country like russia, the energy crisis in europe. now it proves the point. is that fir towards russia, and why does the west attempt to drag pakistan into this?

is that the problem developing countries like oz, the problems we face, the biggest problem is that western countries expect their problems to become our problems. so this is basically a european problem. it's not biased on problem. what up august suns, problems? the western countries don't, can just consider their own problems. so for instance, there is a conflict between bargenson and india, about kush, we've fought for since $948.00. there's a unit, un security council resolution which makes should be the dispute territory between pakistan and india. and the people of kush weird through a plebiscite was supposed to decide whether they wanted to be with india up august on at the last 30 years, 100000 casualties have died in this struggle for independence. so whenever

we go to world forums or we talk to the western country leaders, we talked about what's happening and push me to human rights abuses. india has taken away the statehood of christianity and 2019 august and unconstitutionally illegally. yet no one responds to this, no one thinks of sanctioning and no one thinks of condemning india. yet when this is a european conflict, you know, forget about the, the modern morality of the conflict. but the fact is, it is not pakistan. conflict, yet they want us to take a position on this and condemn russia. my point is that condemning russia, you have to have the luxury to condemn countries on moral issues. we don't have that luxury, you know, condemning countries can cost up people a lot. it can push people below the poverty line. therefore,

we want the luxury to be neutral. and that's what we want, i think. and that's what ended in the, is a, as a strategic partner of the u. s. and yet it is trading with, with russia. it's buying their oil and it's still neutral. it doesn't condemn rochelle, it's it just says we are new to can pakistan withstand, pressure though county county can't stand up and say, it's not necessary to choose sides. we're going to act in our own national interests 1st. that's what every country should have the right to do. well, if you have 100000000 people who are wonderful, they should become your priority. and we should be able to tell a superpower like the united states that look, you know, you know, we would like to take positions. but unfortunately, our situation does just says don't allow us to take positions. so allow us to be neutral. you know, be big about just for,

for the viewers. we joined the us war on dinner dinner after 911. we began the bottom. the total number of people who died in the twin does the tragic event. the dentist attack that took place and when does were less than $3000.00 bargains done when it dissipated in the us war on terror? $80000.00 pakistan is look and we will. country was devastated. 3 and a half 1000000 people were internally displaced and we had over $100000000000.00 last to the economy. so, largest done paid a huge price for participating in someone else's war. and my point is that we should don't countries which have huge amounts of poverty like countries wonder, but people will, you know, who should be a min priority. we should not be able to, we should not be forced to do other people's conflict. just another aspect on this,

if i may, is the blame on russia essentially for all of the world energy was right now, a little too convenient, seeing as we've just come through to years of extreme at covert locked, dines you, of course, sold out at 1st time being pakistan, prime minister during all the time. you see, frankly i'm, i don't believe resolving issues through conflicts. although, you know, there are 2 sides of the argument in this, in the ukraine, russia conflict, russian. when i met president boot and he talked about security of threshold, which was, which was his biggest issue. and that's why, you know, he gave all the reasons how he sent signals and warnings. and he had understandings with western leaders about why it was important for the vote, for russia to have a zone which was demilitarized. and on the other hand,

the western view is very simple. they think the aggression, my, my, i have always in the head of the believe that got a military solutions are always counterproductive because i always believed that you, you go into a conflict to resolve one issue and then a multi intervention leads to other issues. and so i have opposed basically the iraq war, i oppose the war and a lot of fun. and i, and i feel that, you know, it's not the way, but you know, we want to stay out of it because there are 2 points of views. the one ration point of view and one is the european point of view. and so people like us countries like us, should have the luxury of staying out of it. you have been criticized for being too close to russia and present them, put and how is your relationship with them or putting well,

i've only met a president put in twice once was at a conference in michigan. the 2nd time was this meeting. i didn't realize that when we would reach that and the next morning when i was going to have my meeting with him, that there would be this envision in ukraine. i didn't expect it. so, you know, i said long jack, but president bush and my men interest as really odd relation bugs under nation ship with russia because in the future does a bargain on can gain a lot from this relationship. and i repeat, we have our energy needs gas. secondly, we oil from russia and, and thirdly, as wheat by guest thought is a country of to 20000000 people growing fast. and we have the shortage of weed, which is, you know, as, you know, as essential for basic staple died of, of

a population. so here my whole idea was cementing our relationship and these terms and trading terms, mutually beneficial for both. ok, if we can return to your situation, sir. and if you stand trial in the high court next week and are convicted, you would be disqualified for life from politics as no convicted person can run for office. but is going to court something you will have to do at some stage if you want to become prime minister again. look, you know, i don't know how that god is going to do this. i mean, any court, how are they going to convict someone for saying that they would take legal action against those ones, but for perpetuating daughter custodial, georgia. it's banned. so how is everyone going to band me on terrorism?

because i'm saying that there's custodial daughter and we will take legal action against those responsible. that's exactly what i said. how can anyone be banned for this? how can anyone be back even convicted for terrorism for to take that? so it's, i don't know what they were, but i think if they go that far, i just think that there will be a huge commotion in the country. people are never going to accept it. you mentioned you are barred from the airwaves, sir. does not having access to television does not affect your fight and your supporters fight greatly because i know your social media presence is huge. 17 and a half 1000000 followers on twitter, for instance. do you need to be on television at all? well, social media, you know, that's, that's something which all fascist regina that tried to clam down on information.

it's very difficult for them to clamp down on social media. and they have tried, i mean the government during my speech that tried to disrupted youtube for a while, because that banned me on televisions on youtube that tried to cause destruction. but it's very difficult. i mean, the, the legs they will have to go to clam down on social media is going to be very difficult. even media, i think for a while, for, for, for some time, they might just temporarily the clam down on it. but electronic media eventually depends on viewership. and the, the, the out of so many channels, the one or 2 channels that show us viewership goes through the roof. so the uh, the d v channels are going to lose money if they don't show the, the body that is by far the most popular party, the only federal party in the country. it's just not, you know, commercially,

it won't make sense to them. so i don't think it's the government isn't affects the panicking and then panic. they're taking these ridiculous fascist measures. but this is the solution, the gun stop the popularity of a body growing by taking these decisions. and especially if they take that even at the clam done on the electron electronic media, the social media is something they can stop the gun clam down on for, for any length of time. what will you do next week if that bill does not change and you're being forced to go to court when you go well i have to go to court. i've got this heading on the 30th, so yes, i'll be going to go look all my life. let me just say all my life. i have all

listed within the law. and one ticks i've been for 26 years. i have always all my protest, everything up between the, between the limits of the law and limits of the constitution. because i am a constitutionalist, i'm a democrat, and i don't believe that, you know, you should go outside the constitution because then you open up and order a box. and so what they're doing right now is trying to call me when this case, they will find it very difficult because the people of this country have known me for 50 years. i mean, before i joined politics, i was one of the top sports store in this country for 2 decades. so they're moving for a long time. so it's not going to be very easy for them just to, to band me. it's, you know, people won't accept it. you've called a whole process leading pakistan into it looks like a banana republic from the outside. what did you mean by that?

well, i mean, for a start i what the did, but by cheaper stuff shabazz girl, you don't just and you know, he's an assistant. he was assistant professor at an american university. so he was just picked up. abducted, and tortured and sexually abused. so this, i mean, doesn't have it in civilized society, but the worst thing is that, you know, when i wanted to have legal proceedings against the police and those who are responsible then slap the terrorism case on me. this doesn't happen in a civilized society. so that's what i meant by been on the public grid, the sending these guys the government of groups, by the way, 60 percent of the government is on bail on corruption charges. so they're so desperate that they are digging all these measures,

which is sticking focused on making it into a band or a public. but are you not concerned that the, the amount of your followers on the streets constantly is going to make the situation worse? look, i mean if that a girl ridiculous, how would i know what the followers would react? but all i know is that the night they were going to come to arrest, be thousands of people does a bed outside miles and surrounded miles. and not just that in cities, thousands of people just came out on the street. so, you know, because they know who, i mean the people know what is going on. the level of political awareness is so much because of social media because of the mobile for everyone knows what's going on. so the response was immediate. the moment virus florence gave out, the response just was immediate in the streets. so, you know, if they go the same direction, i can see what will happen,

but i feel that there will be immense, huge, unprecedented st protections. and do you think that the current government is going to try something else to, to clump down on your supporters to silence those people? what they already have on friday for may when my we were conducting a piece of progress. i mean, the sort of clam down, the thousands of people in jail the, i mean the rated people, the houses that died. it's never happened before. you know, it was like as if we were terrorist, it was a peaceful protest. and when i was in government 3 and a half years, there were 3 times they were there were sort of sitting in islam by the guest by government. we never stopped anyone. we never judged any people. we never put people in is. but this government, you know, on the 25th of may, which was

a black there for us. they really, i mean, they injured people. 2 people died so many people got injured and put people in jail. it was a proper clap, done. so that's desperation. and just finally, because you've been very good with your time, how do you see this playing? but by what you've been saying, you're not going to stun down from the optic in the opposition's reaction. they don't look as if they're going to, sir. how does this play it? in your opinion? there is only one solution. at the moment i've gone to me is gone down. we have unprecedented inflation. what is called the consumer price index? when we were and bought and remember this is despite the commodity super cycle. all over the world as well as 16 percent today, the consumer price index as cross 42 percent. so inflation has gone through the

roof. people are hurting the electricity. prices will, you know, the, when the, when the electricity bills game, their protests going all over budgets and people can afford electricity. it's again, more than doubled since we left and 4 months is more than doubled. so the inflation as the sky economy is dangling exports are going down, you know, there's unemployment non because the industries are closing because of these heavy costs and unpredictability. so the only solution where bugging on is today are free and fair elections. nothing else will is going to resolve this problem, this political instability in august on which means that the economy won't stabilize, economic stability depends on political stability. and right now i got to me is banking. there's no one has no one knows what's going to happen in the, in the one month, 2 months from now. and so the only solution as i repeat,

is only solution to get political stability of free and fair elections. well, we thank you greatly for coming on our team international and sharing your views with us today. embrun cam, former prime minister of pakistan. thank you for your time on your thoughts ah moved when i was showing wrong, i just don't know. i mean, you have to say proud disdain becomes the advocate and engagement equals betrayals. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

a ah my down 2014, neo nazis roy's to power the extermination of ukraine.