ordinary and i imagine stressful week for you, culminating today in an islam abad court, extending a no arrest bail for 7 more days. so firstly, how are you? well, in some ways, it's the best of times. and some ways is the worst of times. why is the best of times because since i left office 4 months back, never has there been such a public response for, for any political party as it is for my body today. so in that sense, you know, it's for us, for a political person who's struggling for 26 years to raise awareness amongst the public. i think it's is one of the best time for us, for my party, for me it's, it's very satisfying to see a politically aware public understanding issues coming out on streets by themselves

to stand up for the right. on the the other hand it's a bad diamond, but just on because we have, we are descending into fascism. we have a government which has no credibility amongst the people. it is it, we call it and imported government id. the economy has dant. inflation has gone through the roof, it has lost all credibility. and so it is compensating by, by the lack of credibility, by imposing this jack corny and measures on us on the deck, clamping down on the media deck, clamping down against jealous, instituted various cases against me. one of them is that there is a case which is you know, which is actually a joke. so it's bad in

a way that the government is panicking. they're watching us growing popularity. we, we swept the by elections and the biggest province in punjab. there with the other 2 bi election which was swept so there, but scared and that's why they're clamping down since your speech on saturday, where the opposition is alleging that you threatened the police and members of the judiciary. they have essentially been labeling you a terrorist on terrorism charges is what you would be standing on as someone who led the country just months ago. what do you feel when you hear about allegation against you? well, let me for your viewers. let me put it in context one of by the chief of my stuff of my office. he was picked up. he made

a remark on television which, which was misconstrued as if he is trying to stir mutely in the, in the army. but it's debatable. he never got it, he still hasn't gotten a chance to clarify what he said. he was actually talking about rule of law, the victim up the abducted him dude. is that give him a daughter to the sexually tortured him and, and up. so what happened was the, this now this report is now in the, in the, a high court of the daughter of the sir of my aid were just jabbers gill. and so my, i made 2 remarks. i said we will not, we will not spare those people who are responsible. i, the police chief and, and as and as 2nd in command, we said we would dig legal action against them. and then there was this magistrate

who, knowing that this, he was tortured, still a sent him back to the police. so we said we would take legal action against board the magistrate and the that the police. now, this does not constitute terrorism. but there have now they're so desperate. they're made this into a terrorism case, the ban my life coverage on, on, on, on screen and, and they're trying to ban me from politics because there's a case of contempt against me. so it is, or what i feel as desperation, because this does not constitute a debtor's, them in any sense of the word you asking to take legal action against those officials who allowed this torture daughter which is banned in by august on. this does not mean that you're a terrorist. so

a but it's their desperation. then there's petrified that if elections take place, we will sweep the elections. that's what i was going to ask. your supporters say this is all a campaign by the ruling leadership to remove you from the political landscape altogether. so who are what in your view is behind this campaign to silence you? well, the government, the government is behind it because, you know, they came in through a conspiracy, and the conspiracy was foreign backed and, and then they, what, what they expected was that once i was removed, i would lose all popularity amongst the public. normally when a government goes, people distribute sweets, so they expected that you know, this would just died down. my body would just break up. but the reverse happened. people came out on the streets. millions of people came out on the streets when i

was removed, protesting against the it's never happened in august run before that a government goes and people come out in the streets to protest. and then as i said before, we had massive rallies that tried to crack down on us thinking that there would scare us. but the rallies increased. we out of the 20 by elections and job, we swept 15. and then there were 2 other by elections which we won. so this has skid, them there now ferrying that if whatever the next elections, which, which are the outside in a year's time, the petrified. but when the elections take place, they will be wiped out. so that's why they're trying to take these measures and it's really the government and add it back as there are water. will allow me to delve into some of the issues you've brought up. if we go back, mr. come to when you are iced it from power in the spring time. you've mentioned

several times that certain documents exist that confirm foreign interference in your removal from power. are you in any position to tell us what those documents may be? well, the, the sofa and the conversation between the biggest and best and washington and the under secretary of state of the you of the u. s. there is a conversation between them where he threatens the pakistani besta that unless i am wrong hahn was removed as a prime minister in a no confidence emotion that but that still wasn't table as yet that there would be consequences for bugging on any sites that drip by the trip i took to russia, he sites that as one of the reasons, so we, that cipher exists. i brought it in front of the cabinet. i, we, i presented it to the national security council because of

a blatant interference from outside. because after the cipher, the no conference motion was terrible against me. and then suddenly, members of my body started leaving the allies, started abandon us, and all is triggered off to after that. the u. s. embassy was meeting members of up, but it tickled party who were the ones who jumped 1st ship 1st. and this is few months before this, this happened. so we the, the president of august and i sent that cipher to the, to the chief justice of august on. and he's asked him to conduct inquiry into this foreign interference into this regime change. the west has made many attempts to pressure pockets on to change its neutrality on the ukraine conflict. why do you think that bothers them so much? isn't one of the main pillars of western democracy, the right to determine

a national pop. so countries like pakistan can make their own choices in their own national interests. well, look, you don't countries, foreign policy must be for the benefit of their own public. 220000000 bug, a son is elected, be my bride. he had to be there. what is good for that? their benefit, their rights, that interest, that has to be my priority. and so, when i took the trip to russia and this was all the stakeholders, one board, the idea was that we would improve our relationship with russia. and we would, you know, we have trading it links with that. i shall, we want to improve the trading links. we already were a pipeline. a gas pipeline was, was being planned 56 years back before i came to power. so we wanted to cement that

contract and then we wanted to buy cheaper oil from, from russia, as well as wheat. because we, you know, we, we have to buy about $2000000.00 of wheat. we, there's a shortage of bug, it's done. but more importantly, at this time, when the commodities super cycle was taking place when the energy prices were sky high, we wanted to buy cheaper russian or like india, india as buying 30 to 40 percent discount rate oil from russia. so we want to do the same because 100000000 bargain, sundays of hon. 50000000 below the poverty line. 50000000 just above the poverty line. so when the, when the prices go up, when inflation bites in western countries, they only, they just have a drop in the standard of living in the country. people go below the poverty line, they're going to have to square be the day. so my interest was the people up august

on and obviously this didn't go down well. well, just a couple more points on that. western countries are trying to isolate moscow and make it a pariah. but the comes, i would suggest are pretty negative for everyone involved when you sanction a country like russia, the energy crisis in europe. now it proves the point. is that fir towards russia, and why does the west attempt to drag pakistan into this? is that the problem developing countries like oz, the problems we face, the biggest problem is that western countries expect their problems to become problems. so this is basically a european problem. it's not just on problem. what up august suns, problems? the western countries don't can just consider their own problems. so for instance, there is a conflict between pockets on in india,

about cush. we've fought for since $948.00. there's a unit, un security council resolution which makes me the dispute a territory between pakistan and india. and the people of kush weird through a plebiscite. was supposed to decide whether they wanted to be with india up august on at the last 30 years, 100000 casualties have died in this struggle for independence. so whenever we go to world forums or we talk to the western country leaders, we talked about what's happening in kashmir, human rights abuses, india has taken over the statehood of could be and 2019 august and unconstitutionally illegally. yet no one responds to this, no one thinks of sensing and no one things of condemning. and yet when this is

a european conflict, you know, forget about the, the moral morality of the conflict. but the fact does, it is not, but it sounds conflict yet. they want us to take a position on this and condemn russia. my point is that condemning russia, you have to have the luxury to condemn countries on moral issues. we don't have that luxury, you know, condemning countries can cost our people a lot. it can push people below the poverty line. therefore, we want the luxury to be neutral. and that's what we want, i think. and that's what ended in the is a, as a strategic partner of the u. s. and yet it is trading with, with russia. it's buying the oil and it says neutral. it doesn't condemn rush or it's, it just says we are new to can pakistan with stuff about pressure though kat county can stand up and say it's not necessary to choose slides. we're going to act in our own national interest 1st. that's what every country should have the right to do.

if you have 100000000 people who are wonderful, they should become your priority. and we should be able to tell a super power like the united states that look, you know, you know, we would like to take positions. but unfortunately, our situation does just don't allow us to take positions. so allow us to be neutral, you know, be big about, just for you all. for the viewers, we joined the us war on terror debtor. after $911.00, we began the bottom. the total number of people who died in the twin does the tragic event. the dentist attack that took place and when does were less than $3000.00 bargains done when it was dissipated in the us war on terror? $80000.00 august son is look guild we will. country was devastated. 3 and a half 1000000 people were internally displaced and we had over $100000000000.00

last to the economy. so, lucky son paid a huge price for participating in someone else's war. and my point is that we should don't dream which have huge amounts of poverty like countries, vanderbilt, people, you know, who should be a min priority. we should not be able to, we should not be forced to do other people's conflict. just another aspect on this, if i may, is the blame on russia essentially for all of the world energy was right now, a little too convenient, seeing as we've just come through to years of extreme, at covered loc dines you, of course, sold out at 1st town being pakistan, prime minister during all the time. you see, frankly i'm, i don't believe resolving issues through conflicts. although, you know, there are 2 sides of the argument in this, in the ukraine, russia conflict,

russian. when i met president boot and he talked about security of russia, which was, which was his biggest issue. and that's why, you know, he gave all the reasons how he sent signal, then warnings. and he had understandings with western leaders about why it was important for the vote, for russia to have a zone which was demilitarized. and on the other hand, the western view is very simple. they think there's a aggression my, my, i have always inherited the believe that got military solutions are always counterproductive because i always believe that you, you go into a conflict to resolve one issue and then a multi intervention leads to other issues. and so i have opposed basically the iraq war, i oppose the war and a lot of fun. and i, and i feel that, you know,

it's not the way, but you know, we want to stay out of it because there are 2 points of views. the one russian point of in one is the european point of view. and so people like us countries like us, should have the luxury of staying out of it. you have been criticized for being too close to russia and present them, put and how is your relationship with vladimir putin? well, i've only met a president put in twice. once was at a conference in bisk and the 2nd time was this meeting. i didn't realize that when we would reach that and the next morning when i was going to have my meeting with him, they would, they would be this. envision an ukraine. i didn't expect it. so, you know, i said long jack, but president bush and my men interest as really odd relation bugs under nation ship with russia because in the future the biggest sun

can gain a lot from this relationship. and i repeat, we have our energy needs gas. secondly, we oil from russia, and then thirdly, as wheat by guest thought as a country of to 20000000 people growing fast. and we have the shortage of weed, which is, you know, as you know, is essential for basic staple died of, of a population. so year my whole idea was cementing our relationship and these terms and trading terms, mutually beneficial for both. ok, if we can return to your situation, sir. and if you stand trial in the high court next week and are convicted, you would be disqualified for life from politics as no convicted person can run for office. but is going to court something you will have to do at some stage if you

want to become prime minister again. look, you know, i don't know how the code is going to do this. i mean, any court, how are they going to convict someone for saying that they would take legal action against those once a but for perpetuating daughter custodial, georgia. it's banned. so how is everyone going to band me on terrorism? because i'm saying that there's custodial daughter and we will take legal action against those responsible. that's exactly what i said. how can anyone be banned for this? how can anyone be back even convicted for terrorism for to take that? so it's, i don't know what they were, but i think if they go that far, i just think that there will be a huge commotion in the country. people are never going to accept and you mentioned you are barred from the airwaves,

sir. does not having access to television does not affect your fight and your supporters fight greatly because i know your social media presence is huge. 17 and a half 1000000 followers on twitter, for instance. do you need to be on television at all? well, social media, you know, that's, that's something which all fascist regina that tried to clam down on information. it's very difficult for them to clamp down on social media. and they have tried, i mean the government during my speech that tried to disrupted youtube for a while, because that banned me on televisions on youtube that tried to cause destruction. but it's very difficult. i mean, there's this legs, they will have to go to clam down on social media is going to be very difficult. even media, i think for a while, for, for, for some time,

they might just temporarily the plan down on it. but electronic media eventually depends on viewership. and the, the, the out of so many channels, the one or 2 channels that show us, the viewership goes through the roof. so the other d, v channels are going to lose money if they don't show the, the body that is by far the most popular party, the only federal part in the country. it's just not, you know, commercially, it won't make sense to them. so i don't think it's the government isn't affects the panicking and then panic. they're taking these ridiculous fascist measures. but this is the solution, the gun stop the popularity of a party growing by taking these decisions. and especially if they take that even at the clam done on the electron electronic media, the social media is something they can stop the gun clam down on for,

for any length of time. what will you do next week if that bill does not change and you are being forced to go to court, will you go? well, i have to go to court. i've got this heading on the 30th, so yes, i'll be going to go look all my life. let me just say all my life i have always did with the law and one of dick's. i've been for 26 years. i have always all my protest, everything up between the, between the limits of the law and limits of the constitution because i am a constitutionalist. i'm a democrat and i don't believe that you should go outside the constitution because then you open up and order a box. and so what they're doing right now is trying to call me when this case.

they will find it very difficult because the people of this country have known me for 50 years. i mean, before i joined politics, i was one of the top sports store in this country for 2 decades. so they're moving for a long time. so it's not going to be very easy for them just to, to band me. it's, you know, people won't accept it. you've called a whole process leading packets down into, it looks like a banana republic from the outside. what did you mean by that? well, i mean, for a start i what the did, but by the chief of stuff shabazz girl, you don't just and you know, he's an assistant assistant professor in an american university. see, he was just picked up a ducted and tortured ended sexually abused. so this, i mean, doesn't have it in civilized society, but the worst thing is that, you know, when i wanted to have

a legal proceeding against the police and those were responsible then slap the terrorism case on me. this doesn't happen in a civilized society. so that's what i meant by been on the public grid, the sending these guys the government of drugs, by the way, 60 percent of the government is on bail on corruption charges. so they're so desperate that they are digging all these measures, which is sticking focused on making it into a band or a public. but are you not concerned that the, the amount of your followers on the streets constantly is going to make the situation worse? look, i mean if the ridiculous step, how would i know what the followers would react? but all i know is that the night they were going to come to arrest, be thousands of people disappeared outside miles and surrounded, miles and not just in cities, thousands of people just came out on the street. so,

you know, because they know who, i mean the people know what is going on. the level of political awareness is so much because of social media because of the mobile for everyone knows what's going on. so the response was immediate. the moment virus florence gave out, the response just was immediate in the streets. so, you know, if they go the same direction, i can see what will happen, but i feel that there will be immense, huge, unprecedented street protests. and do you think that the current government is going to try something else to, to clump down on your supporters to silence those people when they already have, you know, on friday for may when my we were conducting a piece of progress. i mean, the sort of clam down, the thousands of people in jail the, i mean the rated people, the houses that died. it's never happened before. you know,

it was like as if we were terrorist, it was a peaceful protest. and when i was in government 3 and a half years, there were 3 times they were there was sort of sitting in islam by the guest by government. we never stopped anyone. we never judged any people we never put people in is. but this government a, you know, on the 25th of may, which was a black there for us, that really, i mean, they injured people. 2 people died so many people got injured and put people in jail. it was a proper clap, done. so that's desperation. and just finally, because he's been very good with your time. how do you see this playing? but by what you've been saying, you're not going to stun down from the optic in the opposition's reaction. they don't look as if they're going to, sir. how does this play it? in your opinion,

there is only one solution. at the moment i gone him is gone down. we have unprecedented inflation. what is called the consumer price index when we were in pot and remember this is despite the commodity supers cycle all over the world. ours was 16 percent today the consumer price index as crossed, 42 percent. so inflation has gone through the roof. people are hurting the electricity prices. well, you know, the, when they, when the electricity builds game, the protest going all over budgets and people can afford electricity. it's again, more than doubled since we left and 4 months is more than doubled. so the, the inflation as the sky economy is dangling, i exports are going down, you know, there's unemployment, not because the industries are closing because of these heavy costs and

unpredictability. so the only solution where pockets on is to day are free and fair elections. nothing else will is going to resolve this problem, this political instability and august on, which means that the economy won't stabilize. economic stability depends on political stability. and right now i got to me is banking. there's no one has no one knows what's going to happen in the, in the one month, 2 months from now. and so the only solution as i repeat, is only solution to get political stability of free and fair elections. well, we thank you greatly for coming on our team to national and sharing your views with us today. embrun can former prime minister packets done. thank you for your time on your thoughts. ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation,

let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally and going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk in the united states has always had a variety of tools to use and tags on other countries. economic sanctions or are often just the beginning. another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about here. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. we have a responsibility for the whole world. and we need to make room for the rest

because without us there will be k m a nuclear power plant comes under a fresh round of ukrainian shelling according to local officials. but the attack following a previous tried left hundreds of thousands of people without electricity shorter showers and colder offices that the latest solution to the same calling energy crisis from european leaders. as they scrambled to fill up their gas bolts, the head of a wind. so with less fuel from russia to, to be used and factory with. 6 un peacekeepers without a bad job in a democratic republic of the congo, according to a top of.