how far can the current conflict over ukraine take it, and what does it mean for the rest of the world? to discuss it, i'm now joined by what is id, professor of political communications at the university of tech, ron professor. his id is great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for hiring. now, in one of your recent articles, you suggested that they said you political rivalry over your credit that we all are now observing. and some are even participating in just like the problem of iran's, suppose it malicious nuclear intentions, is essentially an artificial problem. it's, it was deliberately created by the americans to justify their intentional geopolitical. you cannot make hostility towards those countries. does washington even need a pretext to do what it said it's mind on doing you know, when it comes to russia i think they do because it's. busy not very easy to question russia when it comes to you,

they can always threatened to take your case to the un security council with russia having a veto power in the security cancer. that's not going to work out that they actually are trying to make an easier ball with russia. russia has a lot of nuclear bombs already, so that, that is not going to work with russia. is so, if you like the states once to fight russia and they want to do that, as you said, they need to find an excuse. and i think that is why they don't want the ukraine to finish. because if there is a settlement, then you're going to be able to use ukraine to put pressure on russia. and that is why if you go back a few years ago, the united states did not want to miss agreement to go through. because that's

without solve on the problems, and then ukraine would not have been able to be used as a stage to attract russia. it will cost difficult. but the problem with that rationale is that the warning your brain is putting pressure not only on russia, but pretty much the rest of the world. because we see that in the form of skyrocketing fuel prices, in many, many countries that have nothing to do with russia or ukraine are filling the pinch . now you've been pretty open about your use that you believe that these conflict in ukraine is changing their current world order, and that is pushing it towards the more multi polar arrangement with different power is going to compete with each other. do you think that you are arrangement, whatever it's going to be if you think going to be more or less violent than what we have at the moment?

you know we are going to transition. we had the bipolar world or this is 2nd world war. you have united states and the soviet union, and then after the end of so union americans thought they're going to have a uni polar role with united the 6 leaving that being that when the super about people like francis fukuyama talk to but in the history do the debate among the scholars, there's what americans wanted to do was actually achieve. there are some people who believe that americans never could establish really put some people who believed they did it for maybe 15 or 18 years from the fall of the soviet union. and 2007 or 2008. and so there is a debate on that. but what you know now is that the world is moving towards the

most high polar system. and during this transition, you're going to see more difficulties. so you'd like to see countries trying to find ways of improving their chances of actually being a greater power then. and the new world order is that should be settled down now. but as i, as, as we move away from this western centers system, or as the system continues to disintegrate, do you think they will ever be a moment when countries like, let's say, iran, russia been, is elda and other nations that have, have had the experience of being sanctioned for a prolonged period of time, do you think they they will come to a point of appreciating that experience because it made them more self sufficient? could it saves them some pain as this transition period continued because

it's got this transition. i think it really is going to be painful for many members of the international system has been on the sanction since 979. since lucian is used to sanctions and that experience of being on the sanctions and also continue to live and continue to prosper. and has done a lot in terms of building things that you need because of sanctions. a lot of especially high tech devices are not able to be sent to you don. so scientists in manufacturers manage to build a lot of things internally rely on outside sources. it's going to be more difficult to do that, but once you do that,

then you're going to be self sufficient. that is why, for example, the military does not depend on the 10th from outside. they make all the things that they want internally. and that is going to be important, as you said, using this transition time. sanction to in us 5 policy to cause difficulties for countries that are not following us dictates. and the more self sufficient you are, the less those factions are going to help you. and the more cooperation you are seeing among sanctioned countries. so for example, we had the huge rush and the big issue in just a few days ago. russia relations are going to be much more now since their common problems are common enemies. and i think the same thing is going to be true with other countries that the us feels they need to pressure pressure. now, you mentioned before that they,

if we accept that the direct confrontation between russia and the west or russian, the united states was intentional, was just a matter of finding the right pretext. think all those ripple a fact that the global economy is witnessing or, and the american economies also with this thing, do you think that was sort of a factor then? because the americans and now pacing unprecedented inflation, which is adding to already preexisting social pensions and all of that will be crucial mid term elections. dividing the ministrations approval ratings are among the lowest things in history. so do you think all of that was also, you know, part of the plan? you know, you may have heard that you need it. i for the how many have called the u. s. government mafia regime and been you study how the us government works. you. busy realize that people interest the us citizens

interest or the citizens of europe interest. other people's interest is not really the 1st by the 1st priority for american politicians is to get to the elected. and they get elected by raising millions of dollars and big oil companies, big manufacturers industries that benefit from was quite happy. you look at what they are doing in the u. s. a stock market in the last 3 months. and so that is going to be a priority, whether american people, the stuff or not, is going to be a concern, but it's going to be the 2nd test consent of people like president biden and other people who are in the white house. and that is why causing the kind of

situation and then they realize that not only people in the united states, but people in asia, in africa and other places are going to suffer. but american could care less about suffering of the people. but they care about the american official is basically benefiting the small the other gene that they're running and washing. but the purpose is that let me challenge you on this one because we both come from countries with a fairly large reserve war of resilience. you know, we've been exposed to hardship before, but the american population by and large, are used to living pretty comfortable lives. and i have a lot of friends in the united states who are, who have been used to conference and who bought into all this ideological rhetoric about freedoms and how the american government or the american society, the american way of life, is exceptional. but now when they have to pay what they have to pay the gas pump,

i think they have receptions changing very rapidly, and you can easily feed other calls. the polls that the sort of the social attitudes in the united states are changing, maybe not dramatically. yeah, but a lot of people actually questioning whether what they've been told by their sources is indeed supported by the reality. do you think it's still business as usual in the united states the time around, or do you think perhaps they may have been change in the collective, not in the literature, but in the way the collective decide to proceed. what leadership is doing. you know, that's a risk that us government took. they wanted to do this very much. if you look at folks, apple rad reports, and the think thank in the united states. they published a report in 2019 years ago talking about this is the title of that report. they say, well, they're reaching and unbalanced in russia. so,

especially democrats in the united states after 2016 election, nearly wanted to cause serious harm. russia as a country russians, as, as, as a nation. and that was a very important go. and the american officials, you know, they rely on the propaganda machine that the corporate media in the u back to the states provide. so and then by shutting down independent outlets not controlled by the media. us media like mac, r, t. so sitting content that is not in line, that is a foreign policy both. and then i'm sure you and your family prior to that a few years prior to that, because yes, the network was also essentially ostracized. them taking off international airways

because it was broadcasting something that wasn't in line with the american mainstream. but i tell you, it took a couple of years for the u. s. good to go to that process. and they get to russia and outlets in a few days, but they did to couple of years. it took them just a few days to, to attack the russian media. so going back to your question, does this list that the american officials took that they taught that maybe the corporate media in the united states would justify all the harm that's going to be chaise by the american people. and to be honest with you, i don't know when there's this level of propaganda is going to actually work or not . you have a segment of the american population. that is, yeah, i think what divided decision is doing is powerful to the united states

as a country. and there's a segment that is basically following the propaganda effect today. i guess we will have to wait and see. but for the time being, let's take a very short break. we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah ha. no nation, no nation has ever done anything like it in all the history with

a with mm. welcome back to well, the point with bought is id professor of political communications at the university of tech from professor before the break. we were talking about the risks that the biden administration to can trying to over expand and unbalanced russia. and i think it was a saw, an ancient greek story teller who weren't about being capital for what one wishes

for last it come true. let me, i think it could be argued that the bite and administration did that more to it's all been to overextending and, and balancing. but anyway, do you think they may initiate more geopolitical flareups a while in office, for example, in with china over tie one or do you think they've got enough on that plate for the time being? you know, americans are capable of doing all of the things that you mention. and i actually was quite surprised. and i listened to 20 lincoln's speech about china just a few days ago. and there were people in the united states that are doing that. and china could play a role by helping russia and fight this edition that's coming from the united states. and there were some people who are arguing that would policy a good policy is actually causing difficulties between russia and china. and when i

listen to lincoln, i realize that they are actually making a decision of putting pressure on china at the same time, i think russia, which is, i don't think it's a video decision, but american officials are also making decisions in the past. and the result is that i think the chinese yellow american succeed in this campaign against russia. china is going to be next. and that's very important. now, on the other hand, and there was the situation with russia, refrain, more emphasis, invoices there seems to be for the reduction of the iranian nuclear talk. they're in slow motion again. and while i understand what's in it with americans, after all, around the, the large oil producer, and we already mentioned be,

you know, the discontent, american voters, when they come to the gas station. what i cannot understand is what the news for iran, why would your country need another agreement with american that would be easily revolved by the previous administration by this for having, by this next administration. rather, that is why you have a need as really cost about it. the man said this is this american saying that you food me once, shame on you for me twice. shame, shame on me. so they don't, i don't want to be sort of see the same problem again like the american b rains are actually starting the years folk lower and relying on some of the american fork wisdoms. and, you know, as i said, you have some of those say, my knowledge of russian is not that great. so i don't know if there's something

similar to russian, but a, i expect, you know, this is, this is a very large something to do. and, you know, given that fact, if you on your lead is realize that competing with russia in the oil market is not going to be a good policy. i think the majority of those think that having some sort of cooperation with russia, because this is what the americans like to do. they want to push on to position that the russian government is not going to need it. so they sabotaged united russia relations. but i think in your life, the fact that competing with russia and energy market is not going to be something good because no matter what americans tell you the gender, the don't do what they say and they do other things. and this is the experience we have had with the united states in the last 4 years running the talk

surrounding the iranian nuclear problem have been going on for so long and various iterations that it's hard to understand what the center on for the time being are they feel about you're supposed intention to have a military application of your nuclear technology, or are they essentially about the amount of pain that then the west can legitimately subject iran to what, what is it the center of those you know, one problem, major problem that we have is that based on 2015 agreement, g, c, u, a, the united states, thomas and other members of the 5 plus one that they do not in till you are into national, the comic as relations that was, that's what, that's what the loan was supposed to get done would get severe limitations and

peaceful nuclear program. and other side would stop tablets, asian economy intentionally would accept. and in reality, what happened was that they, they never really followed that article out of the agreement and then top left. so let me just clarify for our audience the agreement was signed, but be in practical terms. many of the international bank still refused to do business with randy and answer privacy. you never quite read the rewards that were promised. they were on paper, but they never came to being materialized. that is a tool. and now what they want to do, what happened during the tough administration was that they put part of military under sanctions. they called the military terrace organization, which has never been done before. and then they put that part of us

military under sanctions. and the aim was to sabotage whatever the next administration in the united states decided to do. this is what people like robert maggie was needing. the american team was saying at that time that the top administration is doing things to make the 2 g c p a very difficult. now. 1 that these people are in power, it seems they want to continue the sanctions that some created. so this addiction to sanctions that you see, people in the white house have and they want to continue with that addiction. they want to achieve that sanctions. i mean that the problem that is, that this gives them a tool to basically sanction anybody in iran as the english because they can just say that this person is linked to the military. and that's,

that's how the sanctioned that person. so by keeping you as a city under sanctions, they want to actually have a role of not doing what they're supposed to do under the agreement. busy and that's what you'd be, there's a very cautious thought to what's going on. now, speaking about their reading leaders, you already mentioned the speech that i had told him in he gave a couple of weeks ago in which he talked about the need for the muslim world. and specifically, iran not to be sidelined as the world moves or tries to take a new shape. not to sideline does many muslim countries were after the 2nd world war when the current system was, was forming. how do you think the muslim world or the my which lets me there's also divided across national terry and political life. how do you think it could bring its weight to bear on international politics?

i think what you have decided and you're hoping that other muslim countries do the same is to actually have alliances and networks with countries that are resisting us, him and russia and china. and so the cultures are different. religions of different cultural backgrounds are different, but it is a common threat to humanity in washington and us policies are causing lots of difficulties for older and if people are on it. so this is the. busy hope that we have that countries that realize that countries that have the option of not full following us, you know that there's some continued under us pressure we have in this part of the world. we have countries that have us spaces inside,

inside the country. it's difficult for them to make in the end the policy decisions . but for countries that are relatively less dependent on the united states, the hope is that having network in the coalition of countries that are going to resist that pressure that's coming from the united states and developing discussion of incidence. that's why a lot of people admire what the russia is doing now, because russian neither ship finally decided to say no to this aggressive policies that was coming from, from the best that needs to be have that needs to be that needs to continue. and then our job in, in countries outside russia is actually to join forces to make sure that you are taken when he is going to. and so let that happen, professor, is that correct me? if i'm wrong, i don't think any country can afford to take such

a rebel is stands for cultural or your political reasons. but what i'm also seeing over the last couple of months is that many of the old rival resort i'm, if you said being rephrase that many historical grievances between countries, let's say india and china or russia and turkey, iran and some of the goals phase. but i think these rapid changes in the international system that they've been discussing throughout the program today. of course, in many of the countries to sort of think outside the box. do you think that also happen closer to your home? do you think that could be any rapprochement between the sunni and the sheer world to that would be indeed a great best towards making the muslim world. and it's waived on. busy international politics. so you know, you don't have been trying to do that since the 1979 stomach revolution. you don't have been supporting palestinian that you know, and suddenly muslims,

and you don't actually think a lot of the high price of, you know, supporting palestinians, especially with military technology. so they can defend themselves against this radio call. it's been a waiting international politics. it's a, it's a very painful issue, but that influence is not that big. if we take, let's say the golf monarch is like the saudi arabia or the, i'm, or it's been very interesting to watch this up and changes in the politics of late . how they relate to china, how they relate to the united states. do you think there's any interest in that, in tech rom, and do you think around can take it a bit further? i think, you know, have been, even before the current situation has been trying to improve relations. countries like saudi arabia and he, because he does not consider them to be enemies, you don't enemies, enemies, the united states and countries back is so improving relations with the saudis. and

you're going to be important. and also, as you know, in our neighborhood, you have to continue to have extra relations with you. but as a team was in just a few days ago, you reservations with countries mod excellent. you don't have good relations with countries like iraq and artists, and some other neighbors that you don't have. and relations with this countries depends on how much they want to hollow us li, like father. and you have been historically clients of the united states. and as you said, as they realize that the us is climbing power, hopefully they develop more independent foreign policy. and if that happens, the united relation is going to is significant. well, let's keep our fingers crossed by that as well as what the rest of the world professor. it's been a pleasure talking to thank you very much for this opportunity. thank you. and

thank you for watching hope to hear it again. was the part ah me me oh ah ah,

with a suffered because my business and you will clean them. i b. e daily. that was chosen you americans grey, you were euro, you got the really just touching up little ceiling for when you was just touching. sure. ruckel in was names your hospital for the additional student in full, which help wishing that you use her own the with them the proud and you're still know what that was true. i wish you the last year it was, i was sick if history as character as you talk to you later i'm brought in love the study. she was on that list of me which of choice, blue, collegial, not on all things to have to do with jewish. and the longer your bush is just a new solution up as opposed to sustainable remote because a leash knew

a divorce. little do school college. i don't know which for you i know for the don't know as much of a teeth cleaning for losses. come up with crane shell, the hospital in don't yes. going to civilians, according local officials, i made the annual city day festivities that china says if the military is on high alert and ready to react to crush us publications over time, want to washington. so 2 of its warships near the disputed island latest armed clashes between rival militia groups in libya, claims dozens of lives in the country, struggles to maintain stability, 11 years off, the nato helped topple norma gadhafi with

.