ah, with welcome to worlds apart and own russian saying hazard that once you have a reason finding a pretext is only a matter of time in getting, finding a pretext for a war. animosity between the rush and the united states has been building for a number of years. in fact, one could argue that it never really disappeared, just diminished with the end of the cold war. how far can the current conflict over ukraine take it and what does it mean for the rest of the world? to discuss it, i'm now joined by what is i the professor of political communications at the university of tech. ron henson, his id is great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for

hiring. now, in one of your recent articles, you suggested that they said you political rivalry over your credit, that the, all i now observing and some are even participating in just line that problem of iran. suppose that malicious nuclear intentions is essentially an artificial problem. it was deliberately created by the americans to justify their intentional geopolitical. you cannot make hostility towards those countries. does washington even need a pretext to do what it said? it's mind them doing, you know, when it comes to russia, i think they do because it's. busy not that easy to pressure russia when it comes to you. they can always threatened to take your case to the. ready un security council with russia having a veto power in the security cancer. that's not going to work out that, you know, they choose the don trying to make it easier ball with russia. russia

has lots of nuclear bombs already, so that, that is not going to work with russia is. so if you like, the states wants to fight russia and they want to do that, as you said, they need to find an excuse. and i think that is why they don't want the ukraine to finish, because if there is a settlement, then you're going to be able to use ukraine to put pressure on russia. and that is why if you go back a few years ago, the united states did not want to miss agreement to go through. because that's what that solve on the problems. and then ukraine would not have been able to be used as a stage to attract russia. it will cost difficult. but the problem with that

rationale is that the warning, the upgrade is putting pressure not only on russia, but pretty much the rest of the world. because we see that in the form of skyrocketing fuel prices, in many, many countries that have nothing to do with russia or ukraine are filling the pinch . now you've been pretty open about your use that you believe that these conflict in your credit is changing their current world order and that it's pushing it towards the more multi polar arrangement with different power is going to compete with each other. do you think that you are arrangements, whatever it's going to be, if you think it's going to be more or less violent than what we have at the moment? you know we are going to transition. we had the bipolar world or this is 2nd world war. you have united states and the soviet union. and then after the end of soviet union,

americans thought they're going to have it. uni paula wrote with united the 6 leaving that when this was about people like francis fukuyama talk to but in the history do the debate among the scholars, there's what americans wanted to do was actually achieve. there are some people who believe that americans never could establish really pull out all the people who believed they did it for maybe 15 or 18 years from the fall of the soviet union and 2007 or 2008. and so these are the based on that, but what you know now is that the world is moving towards the most high fuller system. and during this transition, you're going to see more difficulties. so you'd like to see countries trying to find ways of. busy improving the chances of actually being

a greater power then the new world order is that should be settled down now. but as i, as, as we move away from this western centers system or as the system continues to disintegrate. do you think there will ever be a moment when countries like, let's say iran, russia, been israel and other nations that have, have had an experience of being sanctioned for a prolonged period of time? do you think they they will come to a point of appreciating that experience because it made them more self sufficient? could it saves them some pain as the transition period continued because it's got this transition. i think we agree is going to be painful for many members of the international system has been on the sanction since 979 since the lucian is so used to sanctions and that

experience of being on the sanctions and also continue to live and continue to prosper and has done a lot in terms of building things that you needs sanctions. a lot of especially high tech devices are not able to be sent to you don. so iranian scientists, you in manufacturers manage to build a lot of things internally instead of relying on outside source that it's going to be more difficult to do that. but once you do that, then you're going to be self sufficient. that is why, for example, the military does not depend on the 10th from outside. they make all the things that they want internally. and that is going to be important,

as you said, using this transition time, sanction to us 5 policy to cause difficulties for countries that are not fathering us the 6. and the more self sufficient. you are, the less those factions are going to help you. and the more cooperation you are seeing among sanctioned countries. so for example, we had the huge rush and dedication in just a few days ago. you know, on russia relations are going to be much more now since the common problems are common enemies. and i think the same thing is going to be true with other countries that the us feels they need to pressure pressure. now, you mentioned before that they, if we accept that they can direct confrontation between russia, the west or russian, the united states was intentional, was just a matter of finding the right pretext. do you think all those ripple effects that the global economy is witnessing, or, and the american economies also with this thing, do you think that was sort of

a factor then? because the americans are now placing unprecedented inflation, which is adding to already preexisting social pensions. and all of that will be crucial mid term elections. the bottom of ministrations, approval ratings, are among the lowest things in history. do you think all of that was also, you know, part of the plan? you know, you may have heard that you need it. i feel the harmony has called the u. s. government mafia regime. and ben, you said the how the us government works. you. busy realize that people interest the us citizens interest or the citizens of europe interest other people's interest is not really the 1st biography. the 1st priority for american politicians is to get to the elected. and they get elected by raising

millions of dollars and big oil companies, big manufactures others industries that benefit from was quite happy. you look at what they are doing in the u. s. a stock market in the last 3 months. and so that is going to be a priority, whether american people suffered or not is going to be concerned what's going to be the 2nd look the test consent of people like president biden and other people who are in the white house. and that is why causing the kind of situation and then they realize that not only people in the united states, but people in asia and africa and other places are going to suffer. but americans could care less about suffering of the people. but they care about the american official is basically benefiting the small the other gene that they're running and

washing. but the purpose is that it, let me challenge you on this point because we both come from countries with a fairly large reserve war of resilience. you know, we've been exposed to harsh before, but the american population, by and large, are used to living pretty comfortable lives. and i have a lot of friends in the to states who are, who have been used to customers who bought into all this ideological rhetoric about freedoms and how the american government or the american society, the american way of life, is exceptional. but now when they have to pay what they have to pay the gas pump, i think that perceptions are changing very rapidly and you can easily see the other cause the pulls that the sort of the social attitudes in the united states are changing, maybe not dramatically yeah, but a lot of people are actually questioning whether what they've been told by their

storage is, is indeed supported by the reality. do you think it's still business as usual in the united states this time around? or do you think perhaps they may have been change in the collective? not in the leadership, but in the way the collective decide to proceed to what leadership is doing. you know, that's a risk that us government took. they wanted to do this very much if you look at, for example, rand reports and the think banking in the united states. they publish that report in 2019 the years ago. talking about this is the title of that report. they say, well, they're reaching and unbalanced in russia. so, especially democrats in the united states, after 2016 election, nearly wanted to cause serious harm. russia, the country, russia, as a nation. and that's was a very important go. and the american officials,

you know, they rely on the propaganda machine that the corporate media in the united states provide. so, and then shutting down independent outlets that's not controlled by the media us media like mike r t. so sitting content that is not in line, that is a foreign policy both, and then i'm sure you and your family prior to that, if you years price, because yes, the writer network was also essentially ostracized. them taking off international airways because it was broadcasting something that wasn't in line with the american mainstream. but i tell you, it took a couple of years for the u. s. good to go to that process. and they get to russia and outlets in a few days,

but they did to couple of years. it took them just a few days to, to attack the russian media. so going back to your question, do this list that the american officials took that they taught that maybe the corporate media in the united states would justify all the harm that's going to be faced by the american people. and to be honest with you, i don't know when there's this level of propaganda is going to actually work or not . you have a segment of the american population. that is, yeah, i think what the binding administration is doing is powerful to the united states as a country. and there's a segment that is basically following the propaganda to them. i guess we will have to wait and see. but for the time being, let's take

a very short break and we'll be back in just a few moments patient me . i only one main thing is important for not as an internationally speaking, that is, that nations that's allowed to do anything, all the mazda racism, the reason us had gemini, is so dangerous, is the, the sovereignty of all the country, or is business and business is good and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion with

. mm. welcome back to. well, the point with bought is id professor of political communications at the university of tech from professor before the break. we were talking about the risks that the, the biden administration took and trying to over extend and unbalanced russia. and i think it was a saw, an asian greek story teller who weren't about dean capital for what one wishes for left it come true. i think it could be argued that the biden administration did that more to itself than to rush over it's funding and, and balancing. but anyway, do you think they may initiate more geopolitical flareups a while in office, for example, in china over tie one or do you think they've got enough on that plate for the time being? you know,

americans are capable of doing all of the things that you mention. and i actually was quite surprised. and i listened to tony lincoln's speech about china just a few days ago. and there were people in the united states that are doing that. and china could play a role by counting russia and fight this edition. it's coming from the united states. and there were some people who are doing that with policy. a good policy is actually causing difficulties between russia and china. and when i listen to lincoln, i realize that. busy busy actually making a decision of putting pressure on china at the same time, i think russia, which is, i don't think it's a video smart decision, but american officials are also not making my decisions in the past. and the result is that i think the chinese, the allies american,

succeed in this campaign against russia. china is going to be next. and that's very important. now, on the other hand, there was the situation with russia. we're afraid to more ample emphasis. there seems to be for the reduction of the iranian nuclear talk. they're in slow motion again. and while i understand what's in it with americans, after all, around the large oil producer, and we already mentioned be, you know, the discontent, american voters, when they come to the gas station, what i cannot understand is what's in it for iran. why would your country need another agreement with americans that could be easily revolved by the previous administration by this, by this next administration. rather. that is why you have a need as a really cost. yes about it. is this american saying that you food me once?

shame on you for me twice, change shame on me. so they don't, i don't either. don't want to be sort of see the same problem again like the american b rains are actually starting the years folklore and relying on some of the american fork wisdom. and you know, if you have some of those say, i don't know, my knowledge of russian is not that great. so i don't know if there's something similar to russian, but a, i expect, you know, this is, this is a very large something to do. and, you know, given that fact, if you on your lead is realize that competing with russia in the oil market is not going to be a good policy. i think the majority of the lot, and i think that having some sort of cooperation with russia because this is

what i can do. they want to push on to position that the russian government is not going to the police. so the sabotaged united russia relations. but i think he does utilize the fact that competing with russia and energy market is not going to be something good. because no matter what americans tell you the gender, the don't do what they say and they do other things. and this is the experience we have had the united states in the last 4 years. now, the rain, they talked surrounding the iranian nuclear problem have been going on for so long and various iteration that it's hard to understand what the center on for the time being uh they feel about your suppose the intention to have a military application of your nuclear technology or are they essentially about the

mon, the pain that then the west can legitimately subject iran to what, what is it the center of those you know, one problem, major problem that we have is that based on the 2015 agreement, j. c, u a, the united states and other members of the 5 plus one that they do not in till you are to national, that cannot make relations. and that was, that's what, that's what the was supposed to get you done would get to the limitations and it's a peaceful nuclear program. and the other side would stop sabotage and united economy internally would accept. and in reality, what happened was that they, they never really followed that article out of the agreement and then top left. so let me just clarify for our audience the agreement was signed, but be in practical terms. many of the international banks still refused to do

business with randy and privacy. you never quite read the rewards that were promised they were on paper, but they never came to being materialized. that is a tool. and now what they want to do, what happened during the tough administration was that they put part of military under sanctions, the big, the called the military terrace organization, which has never been done before. and then they put that part of us military under sanctions. and the aim was to sabotage whatever the next administration in the united states decided to do. this is what people like robert maggie was needing. the american team was saying at that time that the, the top administration is doing things to make the 2 g c, p. a very difficult now. 1 that these people are in power,

it seems they want to continue the sanctions that created this addiction to sanctions that you see people in the white house have and they want to continue with that addiction. they want to achieve that sanctions. and the problem that is that this gives them a tool to basically sanction anybody in iran as the english, because they can just say that this person is linked to the military. and then that's, that's how the sanction that person. so by keeping you know, city under sanctions, they want to actually have a role of not doing what they're supposed to do under the agreement. and that's what you'd be. there's a very cautious if you'd like to what's going on. now speaking about their reading liter, if you already mentioned the speech that i told him many gave a couple of weeks ago in which he talked about the need for the muslim world. and

specifically, iran not to be sidelined as the world moves or tries to take a new shape guidelines. many muslim countries were after the 2nd world war when the current system was, was forming. how do you think the muslim world or the my which lets me this also divided across national 6, terry and political life. how do you think it could bring its weight to bear on international politics? i think what you have decided and you're hoping that other muslim countries do the same is to actually have alliances and networks with countries that resisting us. hey jim, and answer my question in china. and so the cultures are different. religions are different. cultural backgrounds are different and,

but it is a common threat to humanity in washington and us policies are causing lots of difficulties for organ if people are on the wall. and so this is the. busy hope that we have that countries that realize that countries that have the option of not full following us, you know that there's some going to do that under us pressure we have in this part of the world, we have countries that have us spaces inside, inside the country, it's difficult for them to make in the end of 5 policy decisions. but for countries that are relatively less dependent on the united states, the hope is that having network in the coalition of countries that are going to resist that pressure that's coming from the united states and developing discussion. that's why a lot of people admire what the russia is doing now,

because russia and neither ship finally decided to say no to this aggressive policies that was coming from from the best that needs to be have that needs to be that needs to continue. and then our job in, in countries outside russia is actually to join forces to make sure that you as his, when he is going to and sooner than that, have been a professor. it is i currently from wrong i, i don't think any country can afford to take such a rebellious dance for cultural or your political reasons. but what i'm also seeing over the last couple of months is that many of the old rivalries, or, and movies had been repressed there many, a historical grievances between countries. let's say india in china or russia in turkey, iran and some of the goals states. but i think these rapid changes in the international

system that they've been discussing throughout the program today. of course, in many of the countries to sort of think outside the box. do you think that can also happen closer to your home? do you think that could be any rapprochement between the sunni and the share world to that would be in the, the grades that towards making the muslim world and it's waived on. busy international politics out, you know, has been trying to do that since the 1979 stomach revolution, you know, has been supporting palestinians that you know, and suddenly muslims, and you don't actually have been think a lot of the high price of supporting for the senior especially with military technology, so they can defend themselves against israeli or probably thing else, a wave in international politics and say it's a very painful issue, but that influence is not that big. if we take, let's say the golf monarch is like the saudi arabia or the amorous has been very

interesting to watch that the subtle changes in the politics of late, how they relate to china, how they relate to the united states. do you think there's any interest in that in tech rama? do you think around? can take it a bit further? i think you have been, even before the current situation, i've been trying to improve relations with countries like saudi lee because you consider them to be enemies, enemies, enemies, the united states and countries like israel. so, improving traditions with the saudis, and you're going to be important and also, and you know, in our neighborhood you have to have extra relations with you. but as it was in, it's just a few days ago you reservations countries back home on excel and you don't have good relations with iraq in august and the funding and other neighbors that you don't have. and relations with this country is,

depends on how much the well to holler us, lee, my father and you eat have been historically clients of the united states. and you said as they realize that the us is inclining power, hopefully they develop more independent find policy. and if that happens, the united relation to this country is significant. well, let's keep our fingers, i trust with that as well as with the rest of the world professor, it's been a great pleasure talking to you. thank you very much for this opportunity. thank you. thank you for watching hope you see her again little. busy the part ah, with mm ah,

what he's got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is on very dramatic and development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical. i'm time to sit down and talk. ah, a time with

ah, ah, 9 people are injured after ukraine again. shells, residential areas of zappa rosier, where europe's largest nuclear power plant is located. this comes as the international atomic energy agency announces it's on its way to the facility also ahead. he has been promising to go on the offensive for quite a while now, and in fact they have been attempting to recapture the previously lost positions and villages for weeks here, but well to no avail. as fierce battle than don bath continue in our t through get exclusive access to see how fighters.