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ah, ah, with hello and welcome to cross thought were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the so called collective west is at war with russia using ukraine as a proxy. the west has made it clear at once of russia that is weaker and isolated on the world stage. to date, these attempts have ended in failure. in fact, the opposite has happened. the west is weaker and isolated. ah, i cross sucking the wes miscalculations. i'm joined by my guest, john browley in new york. he is a political analyst, as well as a former foreign correspondents in russia and washington. we have michael maloof. he is a former pentagon, c nurse security policy analysts and america. we cross to martin jay. he is an

award winning journalist, an commentator, or a gentleman, cross sack rules, in fact that music and jumping in time. he won. and i always appreciate let me go to michael in washington. first, let me, if you saw from my introduction, i kind of wanted to focus on russia bed down the news flow is kind of interrupting this error. shine is very much ah, in the news flow. taiwan. i'm so michael e, it's go do a little bit of history. remember in december, i think december 17th, the russian said to know to diplomatic note, to nato, into the united states a do watch your step. i'm going to borrow some chinese words. you know, you could get burned with ukraine. now let's talk about right now. you know, the, a, nancy pelosi, i suppose as we speak right now is approaching, or maybe even be in taiwan and the chinese sworn don't do this. they'll be consequences. is there a parallel here and who's not understanding the world? go ahead, michael. well, well, thanks for having me, peter. yeah,

there's an extraordinary parallel here. i think the chinese have learned from the ukraine lesson. they saw that mister putin, as you pointed out, i put down the red lines and, and wanted to negotiate or they were ignored. and now he's done the same thing. jean ping is now done the same thing. he's a, he's issue or bread lines. and he's told them don't cross it or else and the, and for some unknown reason, our people are so fixed at it. they just cannot get the message and clearly administer the they don't, they don't understand what it's like to have a, a 2 front war going on, all of a sudden, once again. and in this case, we're not prepared for it whatsoever. i'm not even prepared to to help you ukrainians a very much longer given given how quickly they're going through the la like. so

this whole thing is just total madness and be in august. i am very, very concerned about a possible war. and historically, wars have have occurred in many cases during august. and you pointed out some question the guns of august, and they've got involved. yes. okay, absolutely. martin way in there on this here be because the parallel with ukraine is quite remarkable. ukraine is a small country, relatively poor, very badly govern. i don't think anything you can say anything like that. about china. go ahead. no, you've gone. i mean, in that respect, if you put it that way, you know that you're talking about a david and goliath situation. you know, we can't afford a war or anything close to and resembles a war or a state of war with china. that would just be simply suicide. i think the links between china and ukraine though, the blood and family. and i wrap up this extensive, i think there is roxanne analyst stories. the agenda is just simply on getting to

an account with the 1st commentator, but so skeptical commentator to say that i really believe the item who thinks he's going to be really against the ropes come the midterm is looking for a must have destruct destruction. and you know, he's certainly not the 1st us present to look at the globe and see where can we have a dust up somewhere and you know, bring all the training much margin. but martin, this is china. not and, and this is not her anita. go to john, good news. just go in just jump in john. i mean, the one common thread i'm seeing throughout all this is that the democrats of the party of chaos. domestic. they were behind the insurrection, the violent insurrection in summer 2020. when our city is burned for 2 months and now abroad, we see that the party of chaos have ignited this. busy war reason, the reason i this war, ukraine and other pushing for war in china. so i get the fuel, they just want more chaos. more chaos brings that more power,

more conscious. they can justify more contracts, whether it's spending at home or spending for defense. well, defense spending for war abroad, and that's the only common courtesy, the party of chaos, of course, as your other respect, very respectful guest, said they, the democrats are also very much interested in provoking china, provoke and russia. i think they do want a 2 front war because this is their moment in history, where they're going to teach the other great powers of the world and teach them a lesson. and they're going to show them who, who's bought they, i mean, they think their boss, the democrats, think their boss on the planet. and they are promoting their vision, their global vision for new world order. michael, if you correct me if i'm wrong here, but i mean if the u. s. it seriously is considering some kind of conflict with china, they have to get there by ship. right. i mean, you have that move that. how is and then thousands on these big aircraft carriers.

um, china is very well prepared for something like that. i mean, i, i just, you know, russian ukraine, you know, they're right next to each other. okay. that's a land war. okay. this is something very different. i'm losing 3 of aircraft carriers and 90 minutes is good to be. how is that going to go down? go ahead, michael. well, it's not going to go down very well except veneers or al carriers. i'm sorry. go ahead. yeah. the chinese at ward and you basically that they, they can knock out those aircraft carriers. and i think that they're prepared to do that. they've got the out, the book that a specific type of listed missile that will if they're called carrier killers, that i think it's the df 21. and so it and, and they also have a, they also can introduce into their warfare scheme. another thing that we don't even talk about that select electromagnetic pulse, weapon weaponry, and they practice for that, we do not. and i think that that is something else if they can use against our,

our, our combat. oh, a carriers in our, in our ships, by the way, they have a greater a much larger navy and than, than, than, than the united states. and the only way the united states can get there is by ship . and if they were coming half, half way around the world, and as a consequence, the, the chinese just have to lie and wait in. and it's because it's sitting, it's their domain, their territory. so it's, it's, so we have this once again shows aggression. i'm very concerned that what you still have people at the top of the state department in the, by the administration. who are the nea cons that are, that are calling these shots? they're unrelenting, they want, they want containment. both were china and russia. that's a car sequence. we have driven both china and russia into a much greater military alliance. as a consequence, john in new york, you on the jump in, go ahead. yeah, just we, you know, we have military bases in the region. so certainly we have the power to project

there are quite easily i've got i mean of course we do have to bring a lot by ship, but we already have a lot of. busy much acids in the region, so we couldn't fight a war. yes, we could find a war with china. it's going to be extremely destructive, but we could fight it in, in the, in the region. well, i don't know that japan. i don't know that japan and the other countries it and south korea that hosts are basis, want to get involved in a war and challenge that. that's a really good point. let me go to martin right now that the, you know, the, the, the entangling alliances, the u. s. has, which is inherently dangerous. you know, if there is an attack on japan, then that's one thing. if there's an attack on australia, it's another thing, but taiwan is a very different thing because even the us recognizes that taiwan is part of china. that is the very basis of establishing diplomatic relations back in 79. martin go ahead. which is why i don't, i don't think don't i do personally, i don't think they're going for war and i'll stand aside to have to with your other

committees. i think they're looking for a state of emergency and i think this is going to be a huge public relations exercise where their heart but martin, but that, that's what the us in these hot heads want. the chinese may react very, very differently to that. don't lose anglo yes, unless it was a great danger that was great changing ukraine and with russia and the great danger with china is miscalculation in how much confidence do you place in the biden administration to, to knock? well, you know, then this calculation is great because they're missing. alienation is great because you also have the chinese wanting good. they're going to have their communist party or a big group are coming up and it's easy and ping needs to get there reelected for a 3rd term. so he's definitely gonna take a very hard stand. i think what i think, i think that was this, this thing is going to happen over a few weeks. and i actually believe being british a believe that the americans are also waiting for this trust to be voted in

conservative liter. sometimes september. she's very gun. her on china foolishly. she really believes that, you know, we can really take a belligerent, very bellicose attitude militarily, with the chinese, which is hilarious, frankly. but i think, wonder if this is all something was to be planned over several weeks in several months. you mentioned earlier about was in the summer, you know, as a journalist, i was find it somewhat ironic, somewhat amusing that so many was a planned over the summer. and if you've ever wondered why is my theory, i think the plans are in the sun because they get maximum press coverage because all the parliaments around the world shut down during most of august, the 1st or 2nd week of september. so there's lots of space in the newspapers, from stories for the political correspondence. when we go to the mention, when we go to china, new york, i mean, this is another elite agenda here. ukraine has been a manufactured, elite agenda. we all have to care about your grade,

even though most people don't. okay. and now the same thing here with, with china. and what's really bizarre for me is that this is nancy. pelosi is farewell to where she's saying good bye. you've been traveling a lot lately. you know, when she has time off from january 6. okay. but i mean, she saying good bye and the by the administration is not on the same page for the house. i've never seen such a hash app in my life. go ahead, john. i mean, this situation, american, political impish reminds me of the soviet political and best and the early eighty's . net is geron accuracy. your people are very, very old. we're really not aware of what was happening in the country or in the, in the wider world. so it's maybe this whole problem, a large extent. i think they're working with the wrong information, specifically about ukraine. i had a conversation recently with people who are pro ukrainian for the war and ukraine. and they really believe that, oh, we just fight a little bit longer. russia will collapse, crushes, and the weak rushes the giant with the feet of clay,

they really believe that they're working with false information. and i wonder what information the white house and con, congressional leaders are working with regarding china, maybe it's something similar. maybe they think china is weak. now is the moment to strike. let's push them. let's humiliate them. let's show them whose boss we are, maybe. or maybe these people, i'm thinking, all right, i'm going to jump in here gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the west miscalculation staying with our team. ah, ah, ah, ah. a say. when you said that i live with

people, i see yeah. be going to show you where you do end up with . i wish to follow that semester. yeah. is it easy? much not, although a lot nobody me on easy. i knew that you know, i guess with your partially federal government, which ah, life

with well connect across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level to remind you we're discussing the wes miscalculations with okay, let's go back to michael in washington. the unipolar moment just didn't last long enough, apparently for these neocons here. and the, i've been thinking for a very long time, watching what happened in a, with, with a libya. what happened with syria now with ukraine and maybe on the menu is now

china. is that the, you know, polar moment and had gemini, it's dissipating for the united states. do you think it's possible that they're seeing this is at a certain juncture where russia is very preoccupied, obviously with ukraine and the chinese. they only see them getting stronger and stronger and stronger. it's the, it's considered he's trap. and the u. s. this could possibly think we'd have to take them on now or at least intimidate them. does that make sense to you? go ahead, michael. yeah, i think we're, i think the what the, the near constant in the, in the, by the ministration. see this says there less desperate effort to, to, to, to contain both russia, china. they see that this is the grand span, last grand stand up of talk for the 2 to preserve their unipolar world order because they see this multi polar world order emerging. and it's emergency very rapidly. and i might add a think celebrating because of actions by the united states itself,

through the sink, through the weapon ization of, of sanctions. a gets everybody out there these days seems even against our allies and their companies. so it's, it's a, it's turning the world into a whole different world that we knew just a few years ago. and as a consequence, this multi polar world order now is beginning to accelerate. for example, the bricks, countries. they're, they're, they're, they're, they're going to be getting new members here shortly. i was just informed this morning by a very reliable source that some of the air countries now want to join bricks. that's quite significant. that's in addition to saudi arabia and, and, and, and, and by, by bricks i mean, brazil, while russia, india, china, south africa, they, you know, when you bring those countries together, they constitute more than half the population of the world yet. and that's the merge the emerging of multi polar world order, the united states,

now seeds itself competing against economically and politically and militarily. well in the end. and martin does is a complete lack of trust and faith in the west. any more, i mean, using the, the dollar, it's a weapon. i mean, it's one of the stupidest things i've seen in my lifetime and that you, you should cherish that as the global theat currency. but no, they denigrated, people don't want it. why get involved in these institutions where you could be held hostage to look what they did to venezuela's gold for goodness sake. all right . it seems to me that china has learned very rapidly what the, with the, the, the west, under the leadership of the u. s. will do in the case of ukraine and china's learn what to do and what not to do, and they're prepared. one thing, i will say the russians have repaired for what had happened in ukraine, and i truly believe the chinese are prepared. i don't see anybody in washington, other than bluster being prepared, go head martin, you know,

showing off repair and when they haven't, but for a long time because they've seen from the offset this relationship between the western china and his limits. i mean, the west can't decide whether it wants to make shine a massive trading partner or a g, a political enemy, or a mix of the to, you know, the little confusion that but i think as more or more as this trade deficit with america broaders and china cells much much more trade goods in america, american exports to china. that's going to obviously become a problem, a certain point. the, the mentioned before bricks is very relevant. what we're seeing is shina having much more competence. now, as these country just on a line are to join bricks so that you know, if there is ever such a threat to china, the big question is, we're trying to even stand alone or would other countries quickly, rosters defense in the regions? well, such as iran, for example, which has massive military capability. so i think the world is changing, you know, and we're living in a new age where america and the west has to accept that does

a new world order emerging. and it is from the east, and it's, you know, it's our own food. we've insisted on creating this new on coast, which is going up. and if you look at around the world, you'll see more importantly in my view, there is a number of non aligned countries, countries. in the old days, in the cold war, we were force more or less by the west to sign off to western germany. a lot of countries in africa for example, that had to formally repeating clean masters these days. those countries in africa don't follow what the west tells them to do anymore. you know, the very, very interesting because you credible, we saw something like 35 countries abstain to the vote to basically kick russia. and 16 of those countries were african countries. another 6 didn't even vote the tool. so there was a very, very clear indication, right from the offset. the world is changing and a lot of these african countries will stay on the line because they believe that

this new world order is with the log in to get trick. but again, they're not gonna be forced into position where they have to choose one side of the other. they want to stay neutral. but i think many also when they see what's going on with the west, china will start also to look at ways of how they can impress bricks and so not to be become members of bricks as well. so the east is growing and everything the west us just seems to be like, shooting itself in the foot every minute. you know, it's kind of wow, it said it really is. this really is an extra moment here, john, because there's a continue on with martin was saying here that the, the west cannot accept that the world is changing in ways that they can't control. and that is really the dilemma right now. when you look at joseph parales blog, mean he's just a madman. he has no idea what's going on in the world and he's running the u. s. foreign policy list truss. i mean she, she couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag. okay. and then you have your joe biden, the king of them all. i mean,

and the world is changing in a rapid pace, and they have no comprehension of it. and that's what makes them truly dangerous. go ahead, john. what does the west have to offer the world they go war struction, a girl? let's look at the past when years. it's been war and destruction. iraq, libya, syria can't stand. what is the main organization for the collective west? it's nato. it's a military alliance. what's the main organization? let's say for the other side, it's bricks. it's an economic development organization. so we see on one side is a highly, militaristic, dangerous, organization, civilization, the west run, as you said by very old and unhinged people on one side. on the other side is a block that wants economic development to respect national sovereignty and to foster mutually beneficial economic relations to nominate non align country. who am i going to choose the unhinged militarist or the side that wants economic

development and national sovereigns? john, yeah, you should, you should be very careful with your words, john, because you're going to be cancelled very, very quickly for is talking pragmatic sense. ok. sovereignty. oh, my god, i haven't heard bad on the mainstream media for decades now, but that's exactly michael, that, that's really what's going on here. is that you, it the, the, it's a world and then there's a literature on the world beyond the west. it, and not only is, it was a literature 20 years ago. it's a reality now. and that is something europe in the americans, and they're in their friends, in nato world, in the like japan and australia, et cetera. they can't seem to find their way how they can fit into it. i mean, we, we, we had some of the u. k coming out. you know, they're going to be definitely, i'm sorry, was a german chancellor. while i refer to a sergeant schultz condemning my china in supporting taiwan, i mean, no surprise there. no, and, and i, i can tell you that the,

the i saw this when i was at the defense department. im when central asia 1st opened up, it was like a whole new world, a whole new universe out there that i had never known about and, and when at and that was the that constituted the east that the, the east, your asia, a bad accent here that we have is, is something that we, the west has no concept of. and we're seeing that today. i might add that in addition to bricks, we're also seeing the belt and road initiative. yeah. it has begun to spawn and, and now it's reaching into latin america. it's into africa, it's all across eurasia. and that combined with the eurasia economic union bricks, belton road. i mean, that's formidable economic engine that, that the united states now is very,

very concerned about and finds very threatening. and that's what they can't go up against a little insight, michael, should be michael. that juxtaposition is, i just want more bases around the world. i mean, we can take africa, for example, you know, the us shelves. it's my building of bases. you know, the chinese economy development and we can argue and debate that what kind of economic development. but they're far more interested in prosperity becoming rich. and let me go back into martin americans. you know, that's what the west stood for. security dignity, the rule of law prosperity. all of those are going away right in front of our eyes . so what kind of model is it for any one in the world now, go ahead america. did they really stand for those values? i mean, perhaps they did. there was a tiny moment, perhaps in the early sixty's when a most of those countries in africa became independent on they clung on to the toots and relationships. they handle their colonial masters. but i'm not sure if

any of these values mean anything any more to these countries. you know, i mean, when the african leaders often complain when you come to visit them, that he gives a speech about human rights when china comes to be to them open schools and hospitals like really basic summing up. you know, these, most of these countries i'm looking to china now to be the new lead to invest money, you know, some like $3000000000.00 or for an investment just last year in the african continent from china. that's pretty impressive. like a lot, that's much less than the americans, you know, to china is really the real play in africa now. and i think this is going to be real, a real determination and a tipping point. now in this new, we'll finish off with tom. we're almost out of time. do you think the chinese are afraid of woke pentagon? no, not, not at all. i'm sure they welcome it very much so i do not think the u. s. is unable to fight why we're trying to. we will lose. we do not have, we might have the technology in this, in the armaments,

in the weapons. we do not have the will we do not have the mind if we do not have the brilliance like we used to have, we will lose. yeah. and, and john, you know, where is public opinion here? again, another major combat, nobody is consulted. no, there's no debate, but just the elite debate on, on the networks and that's it cable. and that's all the debate and people we may be going into a major conflict. and no one consulted the people. and they say the debate is between the talker see, and democracy. it's rubbish here, gentlemen, that's all the time we have a want to thank my guest and watch it in new york and america. what i think our viewers for watching those here are key. see you next time, remember? ah ah,

[000:00:00;00] with a really blown with summers with the will then yet like i'm on the things done with nozzles, but if one additional one i would at last but i had on it that mission with was a study. and what i see. what i did well, that's envelopes. it's like letting me love it, but she's living ash with, i mean, do you know like guys you're going to replace the dealership in a store with when you go to meeting you,

you also the upgrade your bathroom or go lose the bull supposedly when you get a little bit of good, you mentioned with us they did you much and you know that we brought in tom graham when you have to learn is that there's almost a year with the impact on the shell deck landed right in this sense. they're all done, at least 2 civilians are killed and many more injured as ukrainian trips. relentlessly shell the center of done yet city according to local officials also and all program no gas applies to europe. gals,