hello and welcome to cross out. were all things considered? i'm peter lavelle. as winter draws near in temperatures, drop europe finds itself to be very vulnerable. rejection of russian energy is not only slowing europe's economy, but also bringing on a recession. what's worse? europe's economic woes are self inflicted. is europe attempting suicide? ah, cross sucking europe in crisis and joined by my guess, michael hudson in new york. he's a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts in paris. we have his own brick mall . he is a political commentator. and in london, we cross and real consulting. he's is founder of a k consulting and foreign affairs analyst, or a gentleman, cross stock rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate. let's go to michael person, new york. i'm titling this program attempted suicide given what's going on the last

6 months in europe in the western world in general. do you, is that an appropriate title for what's going on? well, i'm not sure that they are realizing that it's suicide. it's more so they're following a u. s. policy, which is the u. s. wants to kill europe. really think it over the americans are the great beneficiaries of this, especially the oil industry that is cleaning up as the oil prices go up and that's strengthening the dollar. the euro's going down, the british pound is absolutely punching it's right now. $1.15 this morning and the apparently, the europe is run by nato amount by the elected politicians. and miss bare bach of the foreign secretary said yesterday in poland, but she doesn't care what the european voters month. she's going to support your brain. well,

imagine the politicians saying they don't care what the voters say that she's in there and she is going to do what she's agreed with the united states to do to boycott russia. let me, let me go to going to go to parent shop. i mean, how do you explain that? i mean, i agree with everything that michael just said there. i'm, but i thought europe in america were comrades in arms, and it comes to their proxy war against russia. but, you know, the, the, the, the 2 players to get the short end of the stick are obviously ukraine and europe. but, you know, in europe, this seems to continue to cow to washington when it's not in there, no interest whatsoever. is there any explanation for that? go ahead in paris. i want to emphasize, you know, a bio flies and there was a one. you said that the programming was that the additional i to the media. and then with in the newspaper, i mean the nice that being said to when i think i believe,

i mean your faculty additions and lead instruction is enormous. first of all, this said that the war was uncovered. it was not until both was a military been diagnosed or choose or job lidermilk agreement. mashaila was an simply a commentator. i say that repeatedly since 2014 jesse sac said he went by the end of 2021 to the white house to tell them, you know, this is going to be to war and the white house. we're not going to discuss with the russians, nor we, that's the 1st the, then they said that the national economy is going to collapse. noticing that my cause it by then says that the mayor was the french minister of it. we can only say that dylan ups now, they say we would have to set up a democracy in so nobody said that there will be will with the wellness that there would be any cost. none of the oceans are going to collapse. no, she goes yet or that you have to suffer to win the warning in what will end the war

and show you where the americans are. he keesing their business in the county where he's read is building sheet on if we were told to suffer from that every with project that, that where sequel to so shut off of the more pressing level one over. well, i think that's a good. let me go to a draw on that point there. ok, let's talk about this. suffering ok, but it's not the it, this is an elite driven war in the west. this is what they want. this is a proxy war against russia. ukraine is a footnote and all of this, and so we have to suffer, but not the people to make the decisions don't suffer. everybody else does. and that's what makes this conflict different for the west, because nobody really suffered for afghanistan or iraq in the west. ok, but now it's all coming home and you have to suffer, but we're not going to suffer. go ahead in london. so it will not let me go to london here in london. will you absolutely right pizza, but at the same time we have to bear in mind that we are a collective society. so in europe, in europe, in european union,

we are complicit in this great life. i mean, we are talking about the politicians that they lied to us. but what about the economist? what about the public intellectuals, what about the journalist and economists who are perfectly aware of what is happening and they are complicit and taking part in this great lie. i mean, no one in the, in the western newspapers, meetings, mainstream newspapers and intellectual public intellectuals or they have a rise in a voice against it. i mean, everyone is just supporting it because because of the, you know, indoctrination with this liberal indoctrination throughout the years here in european union, in united kingdom and across the west. some of the very intelligent when i was use the last you tell

a citation calling. intelligent, you idiots. people was, you know, well versed in economics, in politics in geopolitics, are still believing that it is worth suffering, you know, to, to achieve some, you know, it was already go goal, which is, which is not going to be a good, a drill. i'm glad you brought this up. give me just ask you real quickly here before i go to michael, you know, particularly with this crisis that's been generated in ukraine, i am really sick and tired of smart people saying really stupid things. ok. and it's empirically provable. ok, michael, i mean you're the economist here. europe is decided to de industrialize. is that a good idea? i mean, that lack of competitiveness. i mean, it is a want to become a backwater and it talk about washington winning. do they want to win a part of the world that used to be rich?

that is growing, that is going to become very, very poor very, very quickly if they don't change course michael in new york. well, hi. there have not been official critiques of supporting ukraine other financial times and the other papers have made it very clear that in england, the cost of heating your home is going to go up. $505000.00 pounds per year. they've said half of the pumps in england, they're going to have to close. they haven't talked about the industrialization. they're talking 1st of all about forcing most of the waging population into depth, or as simply unable to heat the homes. they're talking about closing down much of the consumer economy in germany. they're talking about closing. they've closed down the german steel industry. they've because he. 1 still uses energy, they've closed down the fertilizer we thought before, they've turned to close down the get glass industry. italy is especially hardly

heard. so. busy what the press is talking about is how europe in the industry is being dismantled and once dismantled, it cannot be started again. that's the important thing. when the steel industry company closes down, it's very hard to started up again. so we're talking about a permanent loss of markets and the americans are saying, well, we are, we're going to be the gainers. because number one, we can produce steel. we are importing all the oil from russia that we want. we control our company's own steel companies abroad. so the american controlled companies in his l. michael lilian and are in let me interrupt you for a 2nd. but my hang on hang on. but you know, if this is what they're doing to europe in europe, will not be a consumer for american good. so it's kind of a double loss here. let me show you want to jump in in paris. go ahead. well, because now they say that all the sanctions in worker, you know,

the russian economy can absolutely, we work in the long term. how do they know that he way should we trust that we would? i mean the problem of having the smart people in charge, i dont know you since you think how big, for example, used to being somebody was writing children's book is neural clinical m, yahoo says things like, all, all companies are going to be banker. they were just not self or why. okay, so your big, she doesn't know what happens. okay. they're not going to come in and they say they're going to give money, but lives when they come from, they're going to kind more money and printing money or his taxes. and one of these things are going to solve the fact that their lack of energy and the lack of energy comes. i mean, why did it cause the way to destroy the, the nuclear energy industry? i mean, in transit, the cleans managed to kill one of the most that rants and technology dead world since you lived here and there did this is, i'm sorry, this is a religion. i mean, you know, there's, well, it shall, is harmony the areas as i have

a whole of the fascinating where, but then when michael, where does this come from? i mean, it sounds like an ideological obsess and, and how, i mean, damn the facts. i mean, i, this is what i can't, i can't get my head around this. ok. i mean, you know, the, everyone is aware of what's going on in the real economy here. but there is no policy. should you have this list trust? i mean, oh my god, they're going from bad to worse in the u. k. i mean, this is a craven choice. that's what makes this so bizarre. michael, it is, are the logical, but they have also calculated how the united states will gain a from france. you mentioned the magic word, bankruptcy. the real losers in the us will be many of the backs and euro because the banks are going to have many of their customers defaulting. their already fallen bank that so what we're talking about is not simply did the realization, but a bank raises the americans now have a chat to come in and have the american banks by the european banks. so what this

is, yes, it's going to knock i, europe, down, the americans can maintain control. they're not really concerned about losing the consumer markets. they're concerned about control and control of other countries. and they imagine that this will somehow strengthen their diplomatic position by being able to control europe. so at the etiology is not simply anti russian, the n e l, and she is wanting to control all the rest of the world. because if you cannot control it, they might do something that the americans don't like. that's the mentality that theology at work here. yeah, it doesn't have much to do with people, does it? i mean they, they, that's the one who, the least of their concerns. there are gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the crisis and europe staying with our team.

ah, ah, in wanted to come to the russian state little narrative. i've studied as i'm phoning osland stevenson, him knocking host also once a week within the sissy battle disabilities home. and his group i'm speaking with we will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines. the state on russia today and split ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with chris with

ah ah ah, welcome back across stock. we're all things considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing the crisis in europe. ah. okay, let's go back to our guest in paris. i'd like to quote something live the french president mc crohn said a few days ago, frances, that a quote tipping point in the country is as essentially, as i am facing now. quote, an era of abundance coming to an end. it's an extraordinary thing for

a major western leader to say, basically that the show is over live with less are abundance r a, b, b the what the, what we presented to the world as a model has come to an end. i mean, how did that guy get reelected, how the end of these people get out again, elected or reelected? when you say the era of abundance is over? because the global south doesn't believe that. that's why they're continuing to buy fossil fuels because they want their future to be prosperous. but europe is given up. john, how do you explain that? well, gust it as a desk, provoke many negative reactions at 10000000 people in france will even though the poverty line. and of course again, as i said, there was no, not the world of apology or the fact that this is a result of the sanctions on the now even that he says that the sanctions and the window sanctions were vacant was going to be f, a t when they were that were going to suffer, the russians were going to suffer. but you see on the edges you go aspect. i think

there is also the question of german lunches m with your friends on to understand. i mean, the germans always, i think, had, when the back of their mind, the sort of revengeful world war 2, which was also revengeful. were one, if you remember. but sure it mean in, in these russia and g, the revenge did not come home. the old conservative i. busy this issue washed house, et cetera, game from the progressive, the games in the social democrats who against den, if you build up in the eighty's on, they were for the trees in the did the take taking global chief another. so get lead of thinking that during and hours of peaceful counseling, we can only leave together happily thereafter. and of course, what happens now is that germany wanted to control over the whole of you. i and you look again, sasha, who's with me. so by the way, and of course they are miscalculated or the, the idea that the reserves with the will so fatal,

go to them because this into the story, the economy. and that's, of course not going to be a strength for them. but they certainly don't, we're going to russia in a sense, get them to lunch, and the revenge gain as a see from the more aggressive with angela, the phases of motion. because this is where you, 1st of all these guys, the russians are really good for nothing going on. and he's also decided that they don't have the high that the americans have the friends of germany east. hence. busy german english, my know it was another county were subjected to the treatment that are going to stick with on the people. the dunbar visited hutchins for 8 years. it will take 8 years the my dish and they did the full to minus one version. you had to get over the americans at that canada because they were american students, american medical students, their last a g v show as well. i'm a pa, christi, hey,

chrissy is is, is there a calling card here? a michael. i want you to reflect upon what my crown said because this improves a without a doubt in my mind that neil liberalism has collapsed for the interests of the vast majority. the people that it rolls over, i mean, that's an admission, that's an admission right there. and what does it talk about? considering what john had to say, what, what, what it has to say about european unity and western cloud dirty? i don't see it at all. i mean, if the elite lose all this, they don't care, it's their turn off the lights that it's really a very, very cynical approach. go ahead, michael. well, when you say that the abundance is over, what that means is it's time for an austerity program. and i am f austerity program, and the real question is, what are africa and south america and south asia going to do? are they going to be a part of this? or are they going to say, we need an alternative to austerity grab. so there's no need of all for the ear of

abundance to and for us, or there is no technological problem. there is a military and a financial problem. and the problem of american policy that brought this about the problem is, well, china, russia, india, and iran, and other neighboring countries create a set of alternative institutions to the american neo liberal. i m f and world bank . and they are, they going to create a new kind of an economy on different lines from the west. that really is what the question is. and so europe is giving a demonstration of how not to run a country. and i'm, i hope that other parts of the world are looking at this and say, there is an alternative, margaret thatcher was wrong, and a, russia, china, india, and other countries to create an alternative set of institutions independent from

ballard diploma. so i think that's very much already happening. we have bricks in so many other organizations that it's, it's in through time. and this is a, an important catalyst to move it along further because it, because of sanctions and secondary sanctions, nobody wants to get involved in that. you know, the, the, the fear that comes out of washington only serves their interests and no one else is just, you know, is there any way i, maybe this is a silly question, but is there any way back to do this and ring this bell, this craven choice that the europeans have taken because, you know, if the weather is cooling down here in moscow is going to be called here pretty soon. and what happens in the east weather rise just goes to the west. it's only a matter of time. go ahead in paris. does this as a job? well, the problem with the decision maker with helping union, there's no legitimacy whatsoever. the goal, chelsea, lawson, will i get on things of them as

a legitimacy for historical reason that these people are not elected level, even even my cause some sort of support or minority support because some people with these people have not been elected to their only reason to be there is, they're expecting they're supposed to be expert again, but if they were complete the home, then they can go begin the street with there's nothing that legitimize them. and so therefore it or we just did, we were there we come. i mean, i think it's only going to go wrong contest in the street, but the processing, the street must be pretty, pretty serious because you know, they mobilize the police and the army and so on. you see what they do in holland already with the farmers. i mean, it's going to be pretty tough because before they had made the sheet before the admit and of course they keep on saying, oh the, you know, the suggestion of fancy, which is working on a single offensiveness covington and getting a sense easily over, i mean, it's going to be very bloody. oh, it's going to change, but,

but i agree. elicited the other thing with the sanction. certainly they not work. it the destroyer economic they don't, is called the russian calling in the bush. russia you be ever closer to china and to india they will join maneuver. who being that link and china would have joined? i knew yeah. how dreamed that there would be a push ma between turkey and syria origin. so the rebounding had all these things happening now as a result in about of rational diplomacy. and that's the worst thing from the point that the worst nightmare story from the point of view of europe in china getting close to russia. is that her kissing a nightmare? and there, provoking that. so the root of everything that can go home for them and i'll be there even cover up with a revolver that we have to with on scene. or let's go back to michael in new york. well, where do we go from here? because there seems to be an admission of defeat. they don't have any tools left in their toolbox. they're essentially telling everyone we have to suffer. and they have no vision for the future that what is going on, you know,

after the conflict is a come to an end. what then sanctions will remain. they have no, they have no plan. and particularly since they would rate haste, went into this, not thinking of the consequences i have. no, i have no hope that these people know what they're doing. moving forward, michael. well, it's obvious now that you cannot simply roll things back and go back to the way things were before and say ok, russia, go back to your boundaries. let's just paste the u. s. officials of said, the ukraine war is only a catalyst for what is going to be a 20 year war. and their 20 year war is going to be how long we think it will take for us to take over russia, china, india, and iran, and the whole world. and until we do that, we're not going to stop. we're not going backwards. we're not going to paste, we're going to continue the ukraine war to continue to lead russia every ukrainian who dies, absorb at least one bullet. and that's going to leave russia with one lead less.

but we're going to continue to fight. and this is only the opening line, the opening a strategic ploy in what's going to be a long, long on going fight. and so it's up to the rest of the world to say, what are we going to do to respond to all this the west. the only has a plan that it wants to control how, what is our plan going to be to create an alternative, to the whole post more neo liberal order. that is and left us in debt to the i m f, and the bomb holders with money. we can pay now that the oil prices and food prices are going up. what are we going to do to create a new world? because we can't go back to the old world that that is over. so we're in really a new development where countries are going to be making their own michael, that there's one little wrinkle in all this and then i'll get a shout here. what happens when people say no to what michael said? because the global south is saying no,

and the level of administration is only increasing in europe. know is going to be the most obvious answer, but then that's when you have an authoritarian reaction. control of the military of the police of big tech, social media. we've seen it all before. the last part, 2 jobs in paris. go ahead with a 20 year loan wall because that's exactly what's happening in afghanistan. says that we could observe last year. so i didn't, i was them. well, if they want to take a check engine and other counties after what they have done against, you know, eating the good news of the listing agent, just regular george bush of the world. and then a judge russians. and that happened to germany was changing on 22nd of june 1941. so it's a repeat say well,

it went, which is very interesting here is that there seems to be no, no historical memory of things of what goes where michael, you know, last 30 seconds to you, they don't have any knowledge of history. that's why they're groping into the future. 25 seconds to you. well, that's exactly the point though, all of this has happened before, and the only solution is going to be to make a clean slate and start all over again. and you can start all over again if you let united states have veto power over anything you do as it has in the world bank and the i m f. you have to start a new organization without you ephito power. and the other is an alternative. but saying no isn't enough. so not beyond saying no, you have to say we, there is another way of doing things and you have to develop a whole set of shadow institution, an alternative institutions that's going to be the next stage that will evolve over the next. i think it's happening as we speak here. for fascinating discussion. i'm

sorry, we lost our guest in london. many thanks, i guess in person in new york. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c next time. remember talk with ah. with that there was a jesus, you did. yes it was. he just open the window door. william musical cross, i mean, just with the door. nashville. no, puerto a don't cheat is must. so must all mass, it always has thermal wanna hot. go on that machine up, please. can someone stop on a thumb condo vehicle? i just, i just wanted to follow up to the shell spot for the move lucia. her quoting group

decides im lash. there was the only city so we didn't really know what all he was wondering was that if you didn't want you to lou, you put on the really will tell you took a symbol and your dog. although course of course we didn't get a by mister willie the nicest. yeah. boy, you still owe a note of about almost both of us because of us. not us must ok. i need a yes my through on the when you click on this will it a but i just get a moment when you are looking to ship. if she was just walking to now come up moon mission, i am will not on the beach. so the que emilio and it's more than football and we do all of the all to get a niger progressively clean. if there's another be more than the other. linguistic you must bonds, your monkey mean spoke to them. each process that you always asked is more than the lit up. now when you look at the blood up like a new book like, ah, i still know

a bit in my bedroom machine. i oh bother if i told the police muster, but i still calmly. but i was in your lease a nation i've had you guys are in the process because i moved to the new boy. you my shadow still as it is, i saw that what it was also, what is we should we make it look stools wasn't good stead, which it was you think you placed a little bit to which i mean you must you to have to work with away disappeared, we've got it. digital dish out of dollar general jared, you'll look additionally why not glad you're not sure they will. they with molest says when you live grandma misquote just because like logical occlusal applies, this initiative usually said they would go on a dividend. yeah. oh, but in theory and feature to one that i me good off now to music what you will get . it was so this just will go over all modal bucklin yet. we face because

i'm with national, it's got a little polkas or a slow motion on the sheet on the incomplete direction you do you show them say by the mere lucy to let you, but be log on the sheet. it is leak when what you know slip of the month up on, which was the mock about the when you look at what on the is to just look like. must volume and you come in the machine doesn't bit. i wish la rychlik r angela. wish to moment bushnell. as i put almost a w, sold out on the other one. when you mores with them, they alters up a minister on the was in a, in a conflict that the much more was it to deal things by with

with ah, with russia denied claims of a major ukrainian fight back and it's north calling the report, a western route to encourage the sending of more weapons. here. queen elizabeth the 2nd you case, the longest ruling, monica dies, age 96. it's 70 years on the throne. spend too much us period in which britain's rolling global affairs steadily decline. and the news comes with a difficult time for the country, the newly.