oh yeah, it's a fun slide. yes. south. yeah. thrashing a south with a new dock garza boys now watch them up all mutable. upright pizza is emily? apple's video from sheila? this is kim sylium. shes thought, did you say the y fi? ela? a bill? yes. my thought or janine did it again the your fortune pretty up number a lot about this morning. search financial ah hm

. ah ah. hello and welcome to cross top. were all things considered? i'm peter lavelle. as winter draws near in temperatures, drop europe finds itself to be very vulnerable. rejection of russian energy is not only slowing europe's economy, but also bringing on a recession. what's worse? europe's economic woes are self inflicted. is europe attempting suicide? ah, cross sucking europe in crisis on joined by my guess, michael hudson in new york. he's a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts in paris we have his own brick mall. he is a political commentator and in london we cross ed real consanzo. he's is founder

aka consulting and a foreign affairs analyst, or a gentleman crosswalk, rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate. let's go to michael 1st in new york, i'm titling this program, attempted suicide given what's going on in the last 6 months in europe in the western world, and general d as in an appropriate title for what's going on. well, i'm not sure that they are realizing that it's suicide. it's more so they're following a u. s. policy, which is the u. s. wants to kill euro really think it over. the americans are the great beneficiaries of this, especially the oil industry that is cleaning up as the oil prices go up and that's strengthening the dollar. the euro's going down, the british pound is absolutely punching it's right now. $1.15 this morning and the apparently, the europe is run by nato amount by the elected politicians. and miss bare bach of

the foreign secretary said yesterday in poland, but she doesn't care what the european voters month. she's going to support your brain. well, imagine the politicians saying they don't care what the voters say that she's in there and she is going to do what she's agreed with the united states to do to boycott russia. let me, let me go to going to go to parent shop. i mean, how do you explain that? i mean, i agree with everything that michael just said there. i'm, but i thought europe in america were comrades in arms when it comes to their proxy war against russia. but, you know, the, the, the, the 2 players to get the short end of the stick are obviously ukraine and europe. but, you know, in europe, this seems to continue to cow to washington when it's not in there, no interest whatsoever. is there any explanation for that? go ahead in paris. i want to emphasize, you know, a bio flies and there was a good one. you see that the problem in was that the additional i to the

media and then with the newspaper. i mean, the nice that being said to when i think i believe i mean your faculty and lead restriction enormous. first of all, this said that the war was uncovered. it was another pablo was a military been diagnosed or choose or job ladings, game human. not shayna was again simply a commentator. i say that repeatedly since 2014 jesse sac sydney went at the end of 2021 to the white house to tell them, you know, this is going to be to war and the white house. we're not going to discuss with the russians, nor we, that's the 1st the, then they said that the national economy is going to collapse. they would say that my cost that by then says that the mayor was the frenchman still fit for. we can only say that didn't collapse. now would they say we would have to set up

a democracy in so nobody said that in will with the wellness that there would be any just none of the oceans are going to collapse. no, she goes yes. do that you have to suffer to win the war in what will end the war and shear yeah. where the americans are he, she's in there. these is in the county where he's read is bonding. she didn't know if he was told to suffer from that everyone would reject that. that was equal to so shut off all the more pressing level one over. well, i think that's a good. let me go to a draw on that point there. ok. let's talk about this suffering ok, but it's not the it, this is an elite driven war in the west. this is what they want. this is a proxy war against russia. ukraine is a footnote and all of this. and so we have to suffer, but not the people to make the decisions don't suffer. everybody else does. and that's what makes this conflict different for the west, because nobody really suffered for afghanistan or iraq in the west. ok. but now it's all coming home and you have to suffer, but we're not going to supper. go ahead in london. so they will not let me go to

london here. london, will you? absolutely right, pizza, but at the same time we have to bear in mind that we are a collective society. so in europe, in europe, in european union, we are complicit in this a great life. i mean, we're talking about the politicians that they aligned to us. but what about the economist? what about the public intellectuals, what about the journalist and economists who are perfectly aware of what is happening and they are complicit and taking part in this great lie. i mean, no one in the new in the western newspapers, meetings, mainstream newspapers, and intellectual public intellectuals or they have a rise in a voice against it. i mean, everyone is just supporting it because because of the, you know, indoctrination with this liberal indoctrination throughout the years here in

european union, in united kingdom and across the west. some of the very intelligent when i was use the last in a citation calling, intelligent he had idiots. people was, you know, well versed in economics in politics and geopolitics. are still believing that it is worth suffering or to achieve some, you know, it was already go goal, which is, which is not going to be a good adrian. adrian. i'm glad you brought this up. give me just ask you real quickly here before i go to michael, you know, particularly with this crisis that's been generated in ukraine, i am really sick and tired of smart people saying really stupid things. okay. and it's empirically provable. ok, michael, i, you're the economist here. europe is decided to de industrialize. is that a good idea? i mean, the lack of competitiveness. i mean,

it doesn't want to become a backwater and a talk about washington winning. do they want to win a part of the world that used to be rich? that is growing, that there's going to become very, very poor very, very quickly if they don't change course michael in new york. well, either have not been official critiques of supporting ukraine. other financial times and the other papers have made it very clear that out in england, the cost of heating your home is going to go up. $505000.00 pounds per year. they've said half of the pumps in england, they're going to have the close. they haven't talked about the industrialized, they're talking 1st of all about forcing most of the waging population into depth, or as simply unable to heat the homes. they're talking about closing down much of the consumer economy in germany. they're talking about a closing live, close down the german steel industry. they've because he still uses energy. they've

closed down the fertilizer we talk before. they've turned the clothes down. we get glass industry. italy is especially hardly heard. so what the press is talking about is how europe in the industry is being dismantled and once it's dismantled, it cannot be started again. that's the important thing. when the steel industry company closes down, it's very hard to start it up again. so we're talking about a permanent loss of markets and the americans are saying, well, we are, we're going to be the gainers. because number one, we can produce steel, we are importing all the oil from russia that we want. we control our company's own steel companies abroad. so the american controlled companies in his l. michael lilian, and are in let me interrupt you for a 2nd. but my hang on hang on, but you know, if this is what they're doing to europe in europe, will not be

a consumer for american goods. so it's kind of a double loss here. let me show you. want to jump in paris, go ahead. well, because now they say that all the sanctions in worker, you know, the russian economy is incorrectly. we work in the long term. how do they know that he way should we trust that we would? i mean the problem of having the smart people in charge, i dont know you since you think how big for example, we used to be somebody was writing children's book is no training academy says things like, oh, all companies are going to be banker. they were just not self or why. okay, so your big, she doesn't know what happens. okay. they're not going to come in and they say they're going to give money. but with us when they come from, they're going to print more money than printing money or, or his tax is $1.00 of these things are going to solve the fact that their lack of energy and the lack of energy comes. i mean, where did you close? where did these told the, the nuclear energy industry, i mean in transit, the cleans managed to kill one of the most,

that lands and technology dead world. since you lived here. and there it is, is, i'm sorry to say it is a religion. i mean, you know, there's, well, if i shall, is happy the areas as i have a whole of the fascinating where, but then when michael, where does this come from? i mean, it sounds like an ideological obsess and, and how, i mean, damn the facts. i mean, i, this is what i can't, i can't get my head around this. ok. i mean, you know, the, everyone is aware of what's going on in the real economy here. but there is no policy. should you have this list trust? i mean, oh my god, they're going from bad to worse in the u. k. i mean, this is a craven choice. that's what makes this so bizarre. michael, it is it the logical, but they have also calculated how the united states will gain a from france. you mentioned the magic word, bankruptcy, the real losers in this will be many of the backs and euro because the banks are going to have many of their customers defaulting. their already fallen bank that so

what we're talking about is not simply did the realization, but a bank raises the americans now have a chat to come in and have the american banks by the european banks. so what this is, yes, it's going to knock europe down, the americans can maintain control. they're not really concerned about losing the consumer markets. they're concerned about control and control of other countries. and they imagine that this. busy will somehow strengthen their diplomatic position by being able to control europe. so the ology is not simply anti russian b, l. and she is wanting to control all the rest of the world. because if you cannot control it, they might do something that the americans don't like. that's the mentality that the allergy at work here. yeah, it doesn't have much to do with people. does it? i mean they, they, that's not the least of their concerns. there are gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the crisis and europe stay with

ah ah. ringback of course she changed with. ringback forced um, national quito, which was actually due to a couple lights from when you do. uh no, but hold a moment to go with

the national jump in contact with the copier from. wanted to feel good as the boys are new to me with me for a forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except where such order does that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to place trust rather than fear. i would like to take on various job with artificial intelligence, real somebody with

a robot most protective phone existence with oh, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter le belcher, and you were discussing the crisis in europe. ah, okay, let's go back to our guest in paris. i'd like to quote something live the french president mc crohn said a few days ago, frances, that a quote tipping point in the country, essentially, as i am facing now, quote, in error of abundance coming to an end. that's an extraordinary thing for a major western leader to say, basically that the show is over live with less are abundance are the, the, the what the, what we presented to the world as a model has come to an end. i mean,

how did that guy get reelected, how the end of these people get out again, elected or reelected? when you say the era of abundance is over? because the global south doesn't believe that. that's why they're continuing to buy fossil fuels because they want their future to be prosperous. but europe has given up. john, how do you explain that? well does it does, it does provoke many negative reactions and they have 10000000 people in financial, even though the poverty line. and of course again, as i said, there was no, not the world of apology or the fact that this is a result of the sanctions or the now even that it's or his or that the sanctions and the window sanctions were vacant was going to be f a t when they were that we're going to some of the haitians, we're going to suffer that you see on the edges aspect. i think there is also the question of german evangelism with your friends on to understand. i mean, the germans only is, i think has been the back of their mind, the sort of revenge from world war 2,

which was also eventually we're one if you remember. but sure it mean in emmys, trisha and g, the revenge did not come home. the old conservative hi, this issue washed house, et cetera, game from the progressive. the games in the social democrats who are against it will be done in the it is on there were for the trees in the did the dictating gorbachev's another. so get lead of thinking that during an hours of peaceful counseling, we can all live together happily thereafter. and of course, what happens now that germany wanted control over the whole of you, i and your heart against russia is with you. so by the way, and of course they are miscalculated or the name of the idea that the result would be well, so favorable to them because this into the story, they aren't gonna mean that, of course, not going to be the low a strength of them. but they certainly thought they were going to be a sure,

and we a sense get them to lunch, and the revenge king as a see on the more aggressive incident with him a treatment. this is angela of his is amazon. because this is like, your 1st of all, these guys, the russians are really good on, nothing going on. and he's also decided that they don't have the height that the americans have the french germans. if the french, german, english, my know, it was in another county were subjected to the treatment that are configured when the people are the dunbar se hutchins, for 8 years it will take 8 years the my dish and they did the full to minus one, right. and you had to get over the americans at the canada because they were american students, american medical students, their own will last the day before as well. i'm i, michelle, a parker. see her, mackenzie is, is, is, is there a calling card here in a michael, i want to reflect upon what my crown said. because this, this improves a without

a doubt in my mind that neil liberalism has collapsed for the interests of the vast majority. the people that it rolls over. i mean, that's an admission, that's an admission right there. and what does it talk about? considering what john had to say, what, what, what it has to say about european unity and western cloud, ernie? i don't see it at all. i mean, if the elite lose all this, they don't care, it still turn off the lights that it's, it's really a very, very cynical approach. go ahead, michael. when you say that the abundance is over, what that means is it's time for an austerity program. and i m f us therapy program . and the real question is, what are africa and south america and south asia going to do? are they going to be a part of this? or are they going to say, we need an alternative to austerity program. so there's no need of all for the era of abundance to and for us there is no technological problem. there is a military and a financial problem. and the problem of american policy that brought this about the

problem is, well, china, russia, india, and iran, and other neighboring countries create a set of alternative institutions to the american neo liberal. i. m f and world bank. and they are, they going to create a new kind of an economy on different lines from the west. that really is what the question is. and so europe is giving a demonstration of how not to run a country. and i'm, i hope that other parts of the world are looking at this and say, there is an alternative, margaret thatcher was wrong. and we're a, russia, china, india, and other countries to create an alternative set of institutions independent from ballard diploma. so i think that's very much already happening. we have bricks in so many other organizations that it's, it's in to time. and this is a, an important catalyst to move it along further because it,

because of sanctions and secondary sanctions, nobody wants to get involved in that. you know, the, the, i feel that comes out of washington only serves their interests and no one else is just, you know, is there any way i, maybe this is a silly question, but is there any way back to do this on ring this bell, this crazy choice that the europeans have taken, because, you know, it, that the weather's cooling down here in moscow is going to be called here pretty soon. and what happens in the east and where the rise just goes to the west. it's only a matter of time, go ahead in pairs of business. as i told you before. the problem with these european, the decision maker with the in the hope in union, is there no legitimacy whatsoever. the goal or chelsea, lawson will like that. what the role and things of them at legitimacy or historical reason that these people are not elected, never even, even my cause some sort of support or minority support. but for some people with these people who have been elected to their only reason to be there is they're

expecting they're supposed to be expert again. that evening were completely home, then they can go begin the street with there's nothing that legitimize them. and so therefore, it the reverse geared more they become, i mean, i think it's only going to come from co testing the street. but the processing, the streets must be pretty, pretty serious because you know, they mobilize the police and the army and so on. you see what they do in holland already with the farmers. i mean, it's going to be pretty tough because before they had made the sheet before the admit and of course they keep on saying, oh the, you know, they suggest emergency which is working on a single, offensive care covington and care solutions is over and over. i mean, it's going to be very bloody oh is going to change but, but i agree and elicited developing with the sanctions that not only they not work, it the destroyer economic, they don't, is called the russian calling in the bush. russia to be ever closer to china and to

india, they will join maneuver, hook being that movie and china would have joined a new guy who dreamed that there would be a push ma between turkey and syria origin. so the re been had all these things happening now as a result in about of rational diplomacy. and that's the worst thing from the point they do. nightmare. so he's on the chain that getting close to a nightmare. and they're provoking, that's where we'll do everything that can go home for them and i'll be there with them. but we don't have that. we have to wait. or let's go back to michael in new york. well, where do we go from here? because there seems to be an admission of defeat. they don't have any tools left in their toolbox. they're essentially telling everyone we have to suffer. and they have no vision for the future. i mean, what is going well, you know, after the conflict is a come to an end. what then sanctions will remain. they have no, they have no plan. and particularly since they would rate haste, went into this,

not thinking of the consequences. i have no, i have no hope that these people know what they're doing. moving forward, michael. well, it's obvious now that you cannot simply roll things back and go back to the way things were before and say ok, russia go back to your boundaries. let's just base the u. s. officials have said the ukraine war is only a catalyst for what's going to be a 20 year war. and the 20 year war is going to be how long that we think it will take for us to take over russia. china, india and iran, and the whole world. and until we do that, we're not going to stop. we're not going backwards. we're not going to paste, we're going to continue the ukraine. we're to continue to believe russia, every ukrainian who dies, absorbs at least one bullet. and that's going to leave russia with one less, less bullet. we're going to continue to fight. and this is only the opening line, the opening a strategic ploy in what's going to be a long, long,

ongoing fight. and so it's up to the rest of the world to say, what are we going to do to respond to all this the, the west. the only has a plan that it wants to control how, what is our plan going to be to create an alternative, to the whole post more neo liberal order. that is and left us in depth of i am asked that the bond holders with money. we can pay now that the oil prices and food prices are going up. what are we going to do to create a new world? because we can't go back to the old world that that is over. so we're in really a new development where countries are going to be making their own michael, that there's one little wrinkle in all of this and i'll get a shout here. what happens when people say no to what michael said? because the global south is saying no, and the level of administration is only increasing in europe. no is going to be the most obvious answer, but then that's when you have an authoritarian reaction. control of the military of

the police, a big tech, social media. we've seen it all before. i'll give the last part to you jonathan, paris. go ahead with a leg here for 20 year loan wall because that's exactly what's happening in afghanistan with the success that we could observe last year. so i didn't have them well if they wants to take to the check engine and other counties as to what they have done against, you know, taking the good news of the listing agent, just giggling george bush, the world. and then with judge russians. and that's happened to germany. austin only june 22nd of june 1941. so it's a p. c. well, it went, which it's very interesting here is that there seems to be no, no historical memory of things of what goes where michael, you know, last 30 seconds to you,

they don't have any knowledge of history. that's why they're groping into the future. 25 seconds to you. well, that's exactly the point though, all of this has happened before, and the only solution is going to be to make a clean slate and start over again. and you can start all over again. if you let united states have veto power over anything you do as it has in the world bank and the i m f, you have to start a new organization without you ephito power. and the other is an alternative. but saying no, isn't enough. so not beyond saying no, you have to say we, there is another way of doing things and you have to develop a whole set of shadow institution and alternative institutions. that's going to be the next stage, the lavolle over the next. i think it's happening as we speak here. a fascinating discussion. i'm sorry, we lost our against in london. many thanks them i guess comparison in new york. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c. next time. remember prospect rolls.

ah ah . a with ah, india is not a magic cause dean b. we had an independent country with the largest population. so we would make decisions based on our historical and starts chic, dies with other countries and based on our own national interest on structured security interest. and in that country of the steward of russia who has helped

india, and it's a strategic programs and has been a libel partner, how can you know india, dodd of it on and be extremely opportunistic. mm . a california initial be want to pull up a can use to put value a new or change, but you also still receive done a what

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