of kind of a perception in russia that they could be a preemptive strike. one been boss dejan and crimea, and therefore, i think it was a hopson choice for russia to take this preemptive war to cause the military entry into ukraine. i would love to discuss the logic of that decision and the rationale that decision with before we go there. let me ask you specifically about the expansion of nato, because i read somewhere that come to lisa, right back in 2008 and the book credit summit where you cranes intention to join the airlines was formally welcomed for the 1st time that come to lisa rice stated explicitly there that the cold war was over and russia needed to accept that. that last. do you think this drive to expand nato wasn't primarily motivated by strategic and security considerations in the west or wasn't simply about psychology to sort of force rushing to submission and recognition of of it's losing status

wasn't about security or psychology to put it simply. i think cook, it was who breeze on american parked, they became overconfident after the breakup of the soviet union and probably because of historic and animosities they created. wanted to create more dial amongst photoshop and that way. boston the break up of for soviet union. george canon was very, i think every day. and he was prescient. when he said, when the new court, what has been, then under the milestone was 22008 when bush wanted balloon ukraine to join. and mr. put in really, really hard to articulate his objection and what happened? well, we are sure entered all of cars cars. yeah. and so to see sure. then there's not 2014, a maiden operating took place and then after the show was left with no other choice than to go to crimea and then bust region. and since then things have only been

brewing up. and that has been coupled with economic sanctions, which is actually being very rude and really, really discriminatory towards russia. so it's coupled up these factors and of that deliberate attempt by america and western countries to expand matter, which is actually a poor structure to take recourse to the section. you mentioned russia signaling a disagreement with western strategy and even taking some forceful action. for example, in 2008, but i think that without any doubt, the february decision was the most dramatic of all, not only for the will, but also for the russians. most of us are shocked that russia is now using military force against our neighbor. and we still consider ukrainians to be our brother is, i mean, in literal terms because most of us have families. there are,

if you were advising the russian general staff and i'm asking you not as a political analyst, but as a, as a military man, as a man who has to consider in a strategic room, if occasions do you think russia had any other option at its disposal to on the one hand, address the danger of encroachment of nato, but on the other hand, without using military force because clearly there are major consequences associated with that, both ethically and humanitarian. li, if i was dead and somebody was really listening to me, then i would have perhaps otherwise some more restraint. there was a very strong 3 prong realty posting, which russia had already adopted. so we should have waited for some more time because with one leg, 90000 troops, 190000 troops. it was very difficult for ukrainian or any other force to enter

crime. y'all done boss. second issue as a military analysts say fees that are shut, initial strategy back to me is strategy to go to key and sort of go to clark you in these areas. this was probably not well thought through and out his way. you know, the object use was that you will be able to bring your ball to political cap to leash and and disarm euclidean armed forces by about 12th of march. but that did not come through and then there was the d period to the a east east issue can in again. so that was there were to pull some of those casualties award to be the logistics of board the compliment entity in the thrust line. the coordination command, control congregation issues that did not work out of band all the way it should happen in the classic miller to campaign. but you mentioned the classic merger campaign. and over the last couple of years, all we've been hearing from the western from the east is that in the age of old

wars, kinetic wars is over. you know, all the worse will now be hybrid information wars, perhaps some use of special forces, some use of espionage, perhaps for slack operations, but the real army against army clash is, know, is already a part of history. don't you think that this latest development demonstrated that perhaps we have retired war prematurely because it seems to be a reality not only in europe, but also in increasing reality. now in the pacific one in the united states in china to be and the longer had see, i think we had what played this sir. ita live in soft classic campaigns. india has fought hybrid was in bunger dish. you also were preparing put a hybrid water and what happened in you couldn't, was a typical hybrid water right from 2040. so it has only validated that i live in an

important so hybrid bought it. even today, the vestos being a proxy walk in ukraine. so this was, is actually the spectrum up. conflict is much wider. it starts from the lower in, in the non contact, non kinetic domain. then it goes up the escalation, leaded, across the spectrum of conflict to a full fledged water. which via seeing rid the disk of new kid escalation, supposed natural would have intervenes then russia had, you know, booked it up of a nuclear forces on operational readiness. so we can not to sort of doertry date, very short kind of observations and make a pretty definite conclusion. sort of as heart wrenching as this war is. and it is indeed hearts ranching for most russians. i think it has demonstrated to the world that russia has a credible deterrence that it will use knowledge her force. if it's vital interest, i threatened. what about the quality of western to turns and the credibility of

western and it turns, do you think the world believes that the americans would resort to the use of military force as they, as they claim, see detritus is a mind games. so what we have seen earlier, what happened in georgia, americans didn't not intervene. similarly video, the simply the, the video from of gun east on and even presence in iraq has turned on. and there, the leadership is on record to say that we will not physically intervene in ukraine because we run the risk of, you know, escalating into the nuclear. also on record to say that we will physically intervene if there is an issue in taiwan. so look, sit, i won't, situation is very different. and again, you know, if you recall, and mr. barton made that statement, then the white house had resigned. it from that statement that what he meant was

this, what not this, you know, so this still falling, that strategic ambiguity in taiwan contingency. but here they have taken a more strident position. what they will do everything except actually entering physically into ukraine and up for that, escalating the situation to an extent that russia would be forced to up the ante. now speaking about deterrence, i think it was president theodore roosevelt who defined it as speaking softly and carry long j. yeah, but one century after his death it seems that the americans are actually made the reverse that they're, they're not speaking softly. they're speaking of noxious me very rudely, but do you think that stick at this point of time is long enough to force that enemies or adversaries to do what they want to do? that bidding i may not entirely agree with your analysis because you see there is

a great retrenchment which is taking place in united states. they have redrawn from most of the countries and i've gotten hist on is a case in quite that was the only to award there in your isha. so they're gone back and all what they're doing, you know, they're trying to sort of for offload most of the a military responsibility to the natural partners and put them in the front line. and that is why you will see when president trump was dead. he wanted the natural current is to have more shed in the, in the budget of natural and us. so those are the things. so i don't think her americans are in the same position to militarily intervene in various contingencies as it was in the basel general. isn't that perhaps even more dangerous? because if they were to take on defy directly with the russians, we could have negotiated directly and perhaps come to some sort of a solution. but when they are using the obama term sliding from the back,

that is pushing the ukrainians on the front lines of pushing other peoples on to the front lines in that sort of approx in battle. it also limits our ways of coming to some sort of a mutually agreeable solution. doesn't that also jeopardize the prospects of peace? me absolutely correct. and this is what looked greer's own. and margie domain warfare is all about that it has blurred the lines between the classic maturity cam bins and piece. and this isn't in action, action security insecurity, delama richest put, retreated, persists, and their port, at least in the foreseeable future. i do not see a way out in ukraine conflict because both sides have taken harden position and with the finland and says, straighten if they're going natural they would, would have further off the anti. so i don't see that, i think the, i thought a long haul and this conflict is going to continue,

and russia will have to be prepared for that. okay, well, maybe then i will have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah mm mm. so he's got to do is identify the threats that we have a crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult. time. time to sit down and talk. lou in louisa hunter, russian state full narrative. i've stayed as i'm phone and the most i'm seeing with within the

55 with bible speaking with will van in the european union? the kremlin? ca, yep, machine. the state aren't russia today and school or t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with mm hm. mm. that was the 4th with because sharma, major general of the indian armed forces and director of the united service.

institutional indent. major general a few months ago, india prime minister and aaron's. i'm what he said that today the world is facing an uncertain situation as nobody is getting what they want them. he made a statement specifically after talking with his american colleague, joe biden, on the phone a conversation during which joe biden was trying to push india into joining the western sanctions against the russia. and that's push wasn't very successful. why didn't india side with americans more promptly? i mean, i would say, why should india signed with the liberty? well, because americans assumed really india is north america's team b. we are an independent country with the largest population. so we would make decisions based on our historical and strategic days with other countries and based on our

own national interest or structured security interest. and in that country of the steward of russia who has helped india in strategic programs and has been a elaborate partner. how can you know, india look the other way around and be extremely opportunistic. so we have taken oppositions purely based on our principles and our director, or echo norma's of warren polars. now i'm interviewing a lot of non western speakers. there's this and a lot of them are concerned about being caught in this economic and political crossfire between russia and the west and being penalized for even taking a neutral position. now, india is a large country. it's a very influential country. america wants it to be on its side. that's why they're sitting accommodations towards your country. but my question to you is, do you think there is any player in this world today?

perhaps india, who could take it upon itself to mediate between russian that was given that you have very good ties with both sides and you, you and the rest of it. there will have a clear interest in making sure that the world is operational than this conflict. doesn't turn into yet another global war trip. precisely. that was the reason for india abstaining at number of these, warding at the un because we wanted to maintain a neutral position and be available on interlocutor between russia and your 9. able as an interlocking or you're interested in being that additional we would do, but it will not happen. we're treat firstly they have a lot of, you know, back door or, you know, behind the curtain kind of diplomacy which will take place, which we are ready to be sort of if for turkey can do retirement in india is definitely in much but much better position to do it,

so we will be very happy as long as we are able to facilitate peace and, and this country will be really happy to play that. now as a horrible, again, as this conflict is there also certain upsides, let's say, for our various countries. and i know that there were the last couple of months. russia has come up from a number 10 to number 4th as india's oil supplier. and many of the, our oil supplies that used to go to europe. and now going to india. i wonder if your country has any qualms about increasing its reliance on russia's energy sources as your european colleagues. so painfully trying to extricate themselves from that. no, if we had an equal arms, then despite the western pressures, we wouldn't have been purchasing oil and gas from russia. why you're not care for this malevolent russian energy. who because you see a reorder in a g,

a deficient country. really? well, i thought our economy for the well being of people really quiet chief energy and therefore russia is a reliable partner. so we have been able to utilize this window of opportunity despite the pressure from the risk. and we will continue to do. now as you mentioned before, india is pursuing its on foreign policy and negotiating with the americans in doing that and deals with american. so is russia increasing its corporation with china? and i know that traditionally, india has looked at that with a certain degree of once you have a major voice dispute of, in the chinese, you also have security apprehensions about the growth of china. have you seen any change in the russian chinese dynamic over the last half a year, and do you think anything substantial has changed their see one has to take of any realistic view of geo politics. you shared common borders with

russia? they are your immediate neighbors. we're still at a certain distance and chinese over the deep pockets, and i'm in force 2014. they were able to invest in your energy sector than many other places. so it is russia's right to create that complementarity and interdependence. so russia, india does not dictate to other countries how, what kind of relations it should have with its own neighborhoods. so we have no such qualms, the odd relations with the russia on its own magic. and it would continue to be and we are all sure of it that the show would not undermine india strategic interest just because they become economically close to china. and that's actually a very interesting question. how sensitive for, according to your sources is russia to india, security concerns? does russia make accommodations for in this position? let's say more than it would be paying attention to other countries. of course it

has the kind of weapon system that you have provided to us is very, very exclusive. you are not provided that kind of weapon system to any other country. of course, very recently you upgraded your minority relations with china. and it wasn't when we had to problem with chinese on the line of actual control, russian met all it's contractual obligation and was to the extent of, you know, giving us more and more weapons that we needed. not these are hard times when your desk, the depth of our relationship and russia has gone, or didn't to the occasion and met in expectations and would continue sticking about the depth of the relationship as well as a military corporation. as we are recording this interview, the russians and the chinese are conducting, di, traditional navy and navy drills. and one of the things that i heard from russian

military analyst is that while china has a very impressive navy, both in terms of human capacity, in terms of their sense, they lock in the experience and expertise of the actual warfare. and that this is something that the russians may be sharing with that chinese neighbors. that's where the case would that be a concern for in then? you see, if you train a chinese navy feeling, navy, it is not of any concern. you have a relationship with this. indian navy is very strong and our sphere of influence is into the indian ocean region. and by virtue of our strategic geography, we have a very good domination debt. a we are interested in getting aud open to solve china c, but it's purely from the point of view of that 60 percent for the boss is through that . and we want freedom of navigation. but you will see that we are not joined freedom of navigation, exercise americans at anybody. so i think our navy is really very, very,

very professional. and it's very, very jan and it can secured in just national interest in the indian ocean region. and we will be start to start with, you mentioned geography. and i think one of the interesting features of the increasing corporation between russia and china and also, you know, i think a, a sign of trust in a ways that both russia and china can afford to expand last on guarding their own border, which is no small thing because it's for more than 4000 kilometers long, and essentially russia can now divert it's attention to the west. china can deal with its problems in the pacific and the 2 are essentially standing back to back. i don't know how long it will historically last, and that's why i wanted to ask you, do you think this current level of trust when you can turn your back to, you know, a country with which we also had the border disputes in the past. do you think it's primarily necessitated by the difficulties with the west or it can sustain itself

historically? this is a big question. and this all depends on how you manage your by luke, traditions of china. in the past you had problems and sent alicia right. in future also, no country would like to see and other guntee with the large military next door. and particularly if that country turns to be the future is send it want to or to the geography. these concerns must think that's a real prospect though, on the part of chinese, because they claim that they have no intention. chinese have done in south china and see the what you call is the 1949 claim lane or what they have done elsewhere. even on the indian borders, well, it does of your certain indications that will the car to graphic consciousness is very high. and do you think it's the same then the let the shift in the land map

and the shifts in the maritime maps? no, no, since you have resolved your border issues with china, that in france doesn't come purely in maturity terms. it is in the economic sphere of influence. you see, look at cent alicia, where you had such a good blow in such a good influence. today, chinese economic engagement is more than $50000000000.00. i think yours would be to the tune of $20.00 to $30000000000.00. shaw. the economic influence scanned desert into the political influence and the countries of your neighbors. your neighboring countries will make political choices, which are more in con, grants with chinese strategy, just like an interest. you look at beltran road initiative. i think it's a chinese who are calling the shots and well, it is integrating economies. so this does or the new forms of influences than not the military influence which on board burton and it includes what isn't really and

so competitive. and it seems to be suggesting, because i assume that the, the current level of corporation between russia and china would also allow china russia for that matter to take that sensitive issues into account. i'm of the view that if the vest had not enforced economic sanctions against russia and 2014 probably the trajectory of russia, china relations board, very different. can. i also ask you about the trajectory of the chinese intern relationship because it's hard to imagine the other 2 pair of countries which would benefit more from, you know, they synergies from combining either forces. but when you have a border dispute, as we mentioned, then there is a general climate of suspicion there what keeps this dynamic of mistrust so entrenched and is it possible to overcome at that time? india trade its level best to have very harmonious relationship with china.

from 1993 till 2013, we signed a c these of agreement for peace building peace and tranquility on the border. and on the use of force. when india was going through a complicated group situation as action saudi, the chinese, they violated all those elements. and they use military force to change the strata school at the line of actual control. now what do, what does india make or conflict? then that means that, well, they do not want peace and they want probably be on their own terms that they want to china and take issue in which they feel. india is a big bomb, partuto, and it is a good time to put india in its place. but given the size of india and the confidence that we hold, we will not permit any country under the sun to stretch equally cautious. and

actors way. you know, we've taken dick boist goo miller to responses which i know has understood and hopefully with these lessons it will have to have a shortening effect on chinese or to negotiate with us from a position of bad it. what i'm hearing from you is that the chinese needs here revision some of their wisdoms of some to who actually are good for mutual accommodation rather than 0, some outcomes. anyway, major general, we have to live with there. thank you very much for your time. thank you. so much, thank you and thank you for watching you hope to syria again was a part ah with mm

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ah oh, well, never be a victory for russia. wait solution with my truly newton a done by she look at a meal. crane war is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. naz on, on made. it comes to not shoot, get done in carbon dioxide. america forces are and you're not in your engage in conflict of russian forces. the american forces are here and defend nato allies. what happens if nato escalates even more than the special military operation become a war? when you put those set of rules in yellow show and that'll that doesn't is my store . i see it. i see you us thinking casias. go to me with so easily issue

a unique and you stuck with them. let's see where you live. only just still foolish or in your sewage near. i see the girl who's with in the headlines on, i'll tell you the national russia orders a regrouping of its forces from the northern front lines and ukraine in order to reinforce his troops submitted intense shelling in a don't ask region. also in the stories that shape the weak karate incident, a pretty sweet sitting a price cap on a russian resources is an absolutely stupid idea. if political decisions are made and they go against contract, then we will simply not fulfill them. we will not supply anything if it's against our president gotten a potent slamming the decision of g 7 countries to put