a with a with hello in welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle

. give claims it is achieved military breakthrough when you cranes, east and south. if true is this enough to change the course of the conflict? and at this point, this seems rather doubtful. however, there's so called breakthrough will surely ensure the conflict continues. ah, to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guess, wendy's and in our slow he's professor the university of south easter norway as well as author of the book was a phobia propaganda in international politics. and in budapest we have jordan said, well, he's a podcast or the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross up rules and effect, that means you can jump in time, you want, and i would appreciate it. i start out in budapest, of course, as a flurry of discussion about what zalinski claimed as a breakthrough in the conflict in the south in the east. as i said in my introduction here, um, but i think if you start unraveling it, it tells

a very different story. and there hasn't been much reaction to how the russians will react to this news. hear your thoughts, george? well, it's clear that the initial offense was launched by a ukraine inherit was a failure. they sustained very heavy casualties and made no progress. the one in the east northeast around harko has always been more successful and they have made territorial gains. and the one really can't deny that at the moment they all set back for the russian side. they evidently were not prepared for this draw. let me know what was different very well. the hair was preparing for our thought, which again, raise questions about how good their intelligence was. but there's no question that

the russians will respond to this and they already responding. because last, you mean it was, it was strategically in watson, but more seriously, for the russian side, is that they, they appear to have betrayed the people that trusted them. all. the difference between now and to 2014, was that the russians made promises this time when i'm going to leave you when i'm going to bandon you to the returning ukrainian army, which is already stories coming out that ukraine on mistaking reprisals against anyone will see to collaborate with the russians, but i don't think that russia will respond and i think they'll respond by realizing that the concept of this special military operations has to be all to that. this is not the need. they do need more man power. they need to really up the

need to put in more. 4 hardware because ukraine has had received a lot of a military hardware or sophisticated hardware from later they receive training from nature the fighting better than they were. and clearly a need to prevail. and that means that they will have to make much greater commitment than they had originally intended with when there's a lot of thoughts, obviously here in moscow about what's going on with this quote unquote a counter offensive. but there are some people that say that this is a can to like the what the west likes to call the anglo saxon world like to call the battle of the bulge in the ukrainians or the germans. in this case where they throw in everything they have, it's a major thrust, and 2,

it would achieve a victory that is hard to define here because it's only one small part of the battle field. but then cynics will say that this is a very costly p r. stunt forgive to show to its patrons in nato, that it can actually do something with the arms that it's received. and i'd like to point out there are many that say a lot of the arms that are used in this counter offensive work for and they weren't ukrainian your thoughts? well, it depends on the results on this. so counter offensive car will produce, i mean, this is still unclear, it's only been a few days in a row. it can go both ways so, so, so on, on, on one hand is firm and the crane has made it huge, sweeping games was for your territorial all the way to it, which was a strategic for russia,

this cars that need this time to come out and it on us from the north so, so, so this is quite significant, but of course it can play out in 2 ways. i know that this will be a painful loss, strategic it, territory, loss for russia, and this could put it in a difficult position. alternatively, we might see that this, the ukraine forces because they've been stress too far, and given that the man is huge and sweeping games, a lot of this territories were thinly populated by russian troops. there was mostly a dumbass malicious. so it is, it all depends how, how russia will respond to this one. and it's still, i don't have a crystal ball. i was going to work with what we can look at. well, what went wrong, you hassan? because and then you know, the crane and also lost a huge counter offensive. but this story is also going to end up incomplete failure

with russia. there was pull of it back and then you create a troops are exposed to open fields and they were martin by artillery aviation and the sauce thousands of their soldiers being destroyed and also under some military vehicles being destroyed as well. and then russia took back the territory and they ended up to be a very costly affair for training, but they kind of offensive a slightly different because 1st of all, the geography is different. this mark in forests area which and again the highest and also it gets under the rushes were prepared to have the military, as i mentioned in, in the area between assume those various him in the military forces. so it, so it was much more, it was a better on fundamental for this offensive. so i think it has shown that rush

military began with matters now rush response if they're able to to, to crack into this region where there are so many of troops their finest or it could be a spectacular failure for the credit as it could be that the battle which, which brought them through in their best. that's why i mentioned the battle of the bulge. ok. and we'll have to look at all possible alternative option, which is able to hold this areas and then a strategic victory. so it is hard to say that it's a bit earlier, i think it was taken back by how much territory was taken. but this can also be seen as a weakness because it comes from so their control and you can consolidate then this, this strength could very quickly become a weakness. but again, this is over fresh. so it's hard to say, i guess over the next week, we're going to see how this plays out. you know, to george,

one thing that is being played out now. it's living here in moscow. i've heard it since february 24th. i'll use an english language idiom when they, when we taking the gloves off. this is, this is a catalyst here because there's been an enormous amount of restraint restraint when it comes to infrastructure, civilian infrastructure, wanting to keep casualties very low. you bring out probably the most important point, disappointing the civilians on the ground which is very, very key. very, very key is not the most important issue actually, because this conflict will come to an end one day. but it's the hearts and minds that are in play right now. so, i mean, some people i know are saying finally, finally, you know, we have to do this in earnest. ok, there. this is a special military operation, least today is not achieving what it was supposed to up the game. that's what i'm hearing. i think so too,

because really low the russians did this. they seem like it was a very clever maneuver. they attacked a force that was maybe better than maybe even less than the 3rd of the size of the defending force, which is a $5.00 to $1.00, a prevailing. and they the g quite a, quite a lot during these months on the and the progress in the, you know, they got the entirety of the low down people. so they haven't made that much progress in on it since july. so it was already a problem. but of all it was that they were occupying quite a lot of territory with minimal forces. and then we'll always vulnerable to a counter attack. and once it's become clear that nato is going all in your brain,

i mean, just to be sending you never a dog or any restraint on what the sending you when you create is also no longer restraining itself. i mean, it is attacking crimea, it's carrying out assassinations in russia are going to be more of that terrorist attack. so you really have to think, well, we've done what we could on the special military operations. most of what we're going to win, then this has to be a proper, a full out war. and then all the things that you say, you know, maybe it's actually here with some infrastructure. all that you use the infrastructure attacking the entry points of the hardware that they're sending it, all of that now has to be considered because this really isn't working. i mean, if this was supposed to have right, this is not supposed to be the victim of

a counter attack, particularly in a region that is actually close to the russian. well hey, let's continue with the reactions glen, because we had austin in germany, was basically saying whatever it takes, again here he, i've seen his reactions. i thought he would be a little bit more ebullience, but he wasn't. but maybe, as we've all said here, it's early days here, but the, the people that are pro war that want to scotland, proxy conflict with russia they, they must be sitting pretty right now. yeah. all of them then the key. yeah. i keep discussion or did there the big coming out. united states has been that initially might also be a henson about sending into powerful equipment because door frames that this would lead to russian a further escalation is. so it's a miracle fitness quest roster will respond. the kind of what they said that the lesson, this is what's coming out of united states is a, this is that the lesson is

a didn't do anything that they were able to it being more and more powerful weapons, long, long range missiles and rush hour response so this is kind of the dilemma for russia . if it, if it escalates it can risks direct risk of direct confrontation with united states . however, if it doesn't really tell it on us, do not to states from her small says, well, they're not approved tally. i think there's no reason why we should send ever and ever so. so this is a think you're going to see perhaps a response from, from russia because also what you're saying, i thought that a lot of the rules and restraints us let me go. and to. busy what you're breaking up with that you're getting your discussion on the events playing out of state. ah, oh democracy, human rights is all great, great concepts about the problem is the,

the united states and the collect, the west kind of tied all of this ideas to an entity of power which are then so. so this is the core of liberal hedge money. and they think the only way liberalism can survive if we are in power in with it in the business and you will clean them 3 a day i b e w that was chosen. yeah. americans. great. you. when you wrote, you got to really just touching up the group and i certainly provide you with just such a short a different student info with you to throw in the width of the problem. you're still there with

yours and i'm with jewish thought it was a community off now thought it which, which no longer interested in useful, not for the push teachers to their mom because of you know, your personal you school. of course, i don't know which for you i know for the don't know, as i said a here because that with these just opinion, finances come up with a well the back across that were all things considered. i'm parallel. this is the home editions remind you were discussing important news. ah ok. let's go back to glen in us slow right before you into the break. you are trying to finish up a point. go right ahead. yes. when, when i rush began,

this wanted to refer some special notes operation in february. and the point was then 1st impulse it's, it's term came about them. as we know, the british band pushed, they'll ask you to do with, to cancel this negotiations. and then that this was a war of attrition, but the special milton operation as to see it would have been sufficient to again victory in ukraine. but the argument mo, which i hear in ra, size and the door has changed because news pushing and everything in the house. and now russia has to go all the way. so fighting this with one hand tied on their back was only 200000 troops, doesn't work that the argument is now that should do what they should of them beginning wishes to declare full war. and yes, i said all this and i just love one day. i just got back from this economic for in vogue most. oh can i spoke to have plenty of time. yeah. ross's there as well. and this was the main. it's the sentiment that the why, why,

why hasn't russia more or under bridges standing? why, why, why, why taking so much recordings for the civil and infrastructure this. this was a luxury that in february, but it's not a luxury one that was pumping in on this weapon. so i saw this a lot of resentment towards our house and the kremlin being in 2 restraints. and there the response again that the, this is sending the wrong signals, especially to the american, so they can keep doing erin henry weapons, because ross, i'm with retaliating time. so, but georgia is viewers here across a, george and i do, george, you, you're looking pretty much vindicated, right? over the last 6 months of conversations years. i mean, again, it's time to take the gloves off as you've already mentioned, you know, attacks on crimea, assassinations and moscow. it's time to up the game and this is

a catalyst. there are plenty of people. just one is pointing out here that this will be a catalyst to push through before the, before the real cold sets in. and i think you'll be perfectly justified with that. and also it has to send a met, you know, our viewers here have to understand russia is not just in the military conflict. and ukraine is fighting all of nature right now. ok, this is, this is what the states right now, it's russia against all of nature. and i think we need people need to be reminded of that. what you just said is very important because it is late, so that's thrown everything at russia. i mean, it sees explicitly a war against russia using ukraine. the goal here, nathan wants to cross russia once and for all russians, should realize or whatever lose the original objectives may have been with the special military operations with the militarization and the liberation of

the now that has changed. it's now essentially a civil war for russia against nature, and then russia cannot afford to lose because of it loses this and it is finished as a great power, as any kind of an actor on the well social level. russia really has no choice and therefore, you know, whatever the extent of the casualties and the hardships that will come about if it starts escalating and destroying infrastructure targeting here, you know, targeting, you know, anyway, just now while they're in grade, it doesn't matter that much because nate is coming for you anyway. like you already got a so you don't have to worry about well escalation. there's no installation that it's already happened. so you don't have any choice now in the matter. so it has to go in now because this, this way of doing things, it just is not working because there's going to be more and more of these counter

offenses by your brain than out, you know, very confident of themselves. nato is obviously call who was joy about what it's pulled up. so there's a lot more of this, and i got a call to be, to be seen to be essentially train the people what their trust you know, and then another one another angle of this year. over the last 10 days or so, there's been an enormous amount of rumors and probably a lot of misinformation. i'm perfectly willing to accept that. about zalinski standing there. there is talk of a, a coup against him. replacing him even in the russian speaking world. there's even a list of candidates that could possibly replace him. this offensive here is really important for you to have him main. it's important to him so he can maintain his position as being the interlocutor of ukraine to the, to the nato world. this is a very important event for him. and so hard given

a parents to be successful so far, this has been a good friend because the stand lost his position at home in terms of having a some opposition to or some special in the military. and among some of the right reasons, but also to some operations and they do in terms of getting with and so you can't seem to be losing. so this off and so successful has just been over the past few days. obviously getting more credibility. but again, how, how i guess, just on the 2nd on our us or will respond kind of depends on which way it's going to go. and i'm again speaking, i mentioned that they can do this. this could have put a lot of her credit troops and we'll go position if the through the special milton operation, the russian cycle to assess or destroy a lot of these forces and really take the ground. i think it will go back to this

more progressive bass mass on russia, but if it's not able to do so, i, then i agree with george, what process going to do there will then have to escalate the bi, escalating this into full war by bringing in much more troops because i don't think well there, there is an optional loss for us on this and, and i can appreciate the green is saying this is an existential fight for them because you can, might not exist for this. but it's also to large extent, not the logic of that is also an existential threat for, for russia, because this is not merely leading ukraine and things go back to us before 2014 made or is advancing here. so it is russia perceives this, i think chrysler store as being an existential threat. so either so, so for this reason, if they're not able to push this back through this format of the special military operation, i don't see any other alternative than russia going in full war and by the claim one, ukraine. so this of course will be

a huge escalation and will probably be complimented with the other things such as striking or where you find their western military personnel in ukraine and the delivery going so weapons and infrastructure presidential powers. i don't know that it will be much more aggressive, i think. so it's it. and then it goes back to this dilemma. that's a, the, it is a dilemma. it's, it's the other side escalates. if you do nothing as the american for so clearly communicating this in russia, then as being weak in this, notice there's no response. in other words, let's continue more have your weapons until a rush. so this is this, i think this is a limb. in george, the dilemma exist equally for nate, because it is all in on this. they have to win their credibility is on the line on the line there even legitimacy, i would say, considering it with every passing day,

the pain that europeans are experiencing because of the sanctions, the energy crisis and what not. i mean, this is turning into existential from all sides, depending on how you interpreted so on. and as you pointed out earlier, russia can afford this to happen. and so this is why we're, we're really at a rubicon right now. so something has to give one way or another and it's going to be, you know, i hate to say, you know, in our day and age, people love to say we need a win win situation. know we're in a situation win or lose george. i think so, because so nato was being probing using, wow, well, we'll just go, you know, listen these weaponry a, something even more dangerous lee. so again, russian doesn't do i go when i crimea, russian doesn't really so that probing for russia, but i was up to rush to do the same to grow. right. ok,

we're going to go in and we're going to hit and we're going to hit the western forces that maybe a brain, you know, strike all the roads. railways by this hardware is getting into your grade. what they do so far over even later they can send in on and leave grade dry, but they themselves have not been prepared to get involved in the was it ok, are you prepared to get involved yourself? are you ready to get directly? well, i don't think they, which is why it was roughly just probing, major, ok, go and see if you are ready to escalate and get into a direct line with us. so i think that's probably the way rush is good to know when your thoughts on that there was an excellent answer from george. your thoughts? no, no, no. i agree. i think that's the direction of going. that's why this is on the interest because for everyone,

this has been an existential opinions. russia but also to point out, maybe it was only if it loses this it's already built is gone. so i, so when, when you have seen everything to, we are everything to lose, they're willing to, to escalate and take huge risks. and i think that's the direction of rush as well. so it's a very dangerous point in time for everyone. and no one want to say it's a little bit escalate very, very quickly and put us in the interest path. so and george, when we have to point out, you're going to george here is that the casualties of the trainings are taking or just enormous, enormous. and there's a lot of criticism within your brain and so on. how callison casual, the military and a forced into the line of fire because the casualty rates really very high here.

and i mean, depending on the sources, it could be 10 to one, you know, the intent for every 10 ukrainians, one russian. so, you know, the, you know, you can, you can go down the path of these offensive, but they're very, very costly. a few seconds to george, go ahead. yeah, they are very closely. but i think what's mostly troubling for russia is that there's no collapse in morale. and even in western stories about these extensive casualties, they report that the so does the wounded so they can't wait to get back on the front. so your brain, unfortunately ripple, this angie, russian, idiology, deep abiding hatred. russia, then i just ready to sacrifice, you know, i don't know how many tens of thousands of lives just to fight this war. and, you know, unfortunately there's too many within nato countries. also in the grip of this historical hatred of russia. well, this is where it stands are gentlemen here. i want to thank my guest,

are slow and budapest, where i think our viewers are watching us here to see you next time. remember ah ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race. it is on offensive, very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with

a question, given him with a

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