from the don bass and we don't, we send out 5 shells and we're getting hit with a 100. so that is enabled by the nato nato was making that happen. and i think it, it is. it's becoming a very dangerous situation because i, i think i just saw a comment or a message from russia to, to nato that, you know, if you put in long range weapons, you have cross to red line and the russians don't make idle threats. maxime in this basically the same to you because the way it's frame, this is russia and ukraine, but it seems, i mean, in lensky said already in the last few days on seeing that the without american support, he can continue his effort here. and then you have western media sources gleefully saying, yeah, well, the americans and nato, they were all behind the great offensive in konica. i mean, this is, it's not internationalize, it's nato eyes, and it's putting russia against nato and the conflict like this. there's no when,

when is they to say that one's going to lose here? this is what i agree with larry, this is getting very scary. go ahead. maxine, well, the thing here is that it's not just demands it kind of the certain reconfiguration of military apperson, the russian side, which i think will happen. and in the short term, it also means that if need to is going all its force and weight behind ukraine. and it's clearly the potentials of natal and russia are asked symmetric. and, you know, in this kind of conventional warfare, russia is likely lose, which is not accepted by moscow that demands really reconfiguring the approach to the warfare and trying to advance to other domains including non military domains. with seen, russia have use these tools as well, but it also mans on the part of russia to expect more pain on nato

countries, including on there, you know, public support for this, you know, support for free. and also there, you know, you can on standing in the military standing. so it indeed gets us in a more dangerous spiral of confrontation, where we're not climbing the escalation for jumping, the escalation letter. and there's still some of the lethal military tools that russia has. it's, it's also which it hasn't you so far. so there are still a lot of potential for the escalation, but it only will worsen things for everyone. well, yeah, garland we go to you and watch it in here. we did, i immediately after that, the so called counter offensive. we saw that the electricity grade and much of ukraine went down. that was no accident, obviously here. and it's a reminder to everyone is kind of an echo at what maxime said, is that there is a rush. the russia has a lot of tools and it's tool box still can it has a weapon,

systems that it has not use with. there's no been those strategic bombing, there's been no major attack on command control centers that's still all out there . and it's all very possible. and i, i expected garland is in there's a hand that russia doesn't even have to play. and that's, you know, general winters about the come riding in on his a snowy white steed into, into europe. i think, you know, there's a lot of talk about your rus russell escalate. i think there is a certain level of desperation on, within nato and within the countries because they know within the next couple months, this thing's going to fall apart for them. i don't think personally, russia has to. yeah, i would add soldiers simply because some of the areas they law simply would get was because they didn't have enough personnel on the ground to hold those places and they had to retreat. and of course, on the other side, argued that it was, you know, some kind of a massive defeat. but in reality, if they of hold tight and make

a few minor adjustments within the next few months. and, you know, the e u countries are going to be in deep and serious trouble. so i don't think russia has to make as big a moves as a lot of people. i think they've got, you know, a lot of things on their times on their side of the rolling stone with it. ok, well i'm going to use another phrase. there we go. back to larry. here. we heard of a lot in afghanistan. you've got the clock. so we've got to time, so in this case, who's got the clocks and who's got the time larry of russia has both. so the, actually i asked god reader the same exact question on this program and he gave me the same exact answer like getting this guy right. so we, we have, of course, we didn't coordinate on that, but, but natal does not have the troops to put in to, let's to say that they wanted to back up the ukranian army and flo and they don't have it. what we've seen in this latest offensive by the u ukrainians is that

they don't have the ability to carry out and attack and depth. what that means is they're not only hitting the troops that are in front of them, but they wouldn't be attacking russian airfields russian artillery and placements. they would be disrupting supply centers in the rear, and they would carry that out with fixed wing aircraft rotary wing aircraft missiles. they don't have that. and. and so they're, they're really fighting with, with not enough weaponry, not enough armament. and they told us that have the capacity to provide that at the same time, europe is literally is into an economic tell spent a germany in particular. and so the economic elements of this is garlan correctly noted. general winter is coming and so this is going to further limit what the west can do and yet they're becoming more desperate. this,

that the of fauria over this in consequential retaking of car cough because it was a tactical withdrawal by the russians. they were not being chased down the street with a bunch of angry ukrainian soldiers. they withdrew ukrainians. come in, they're out in the open. it's much easier to kill. thanks maxime. it in the going back to who's got the time on who's got the clock's here. i mean it, at some point i would imagine to me, you know, i, it, because of the, it's, so propagandized the narrative. let's, let's kind of unpack it here. i mean, nato countries are supplying arms to kill russians. ok. so why is russia is still exporting energy to europe? well, i guess this is the question that a lot of people you're in and rusher asked in the sense, you know, it should be understood in the west, which perhaps it is in some circles, but it isn't. and others are. there is a lot of pressure on who wouldn't take more draconian measures because you have

this going to be in the worst guy on the planet. but if you, if you, if you look at it from, from the perspective inside russia, even relatively mild and his actions and a lot of people and a lot of surface or with pressure on the kremlin, the more decisive way. and you know, you know, you asked about the energy supplies in the summer, calling for a deliberate destruction of richardson. wines of supply of way to nature weaponry to ukraine. which is, you know, happens just occasionally, but probably not enough or for, you know, because these are members are involving and enabling bringing offensive and social cultural offences. so i think the, the warnings and this is usually the kind of the protocol for the russian diplomacy . there's tons of warning coming of problems, and if they're not listen to then, you know, certain actions follow the same here. i believe that the russian warnings were not

taken seriously november and december last year, right in january to last year. and then we ended up with the type of mass we're dealing with today. and again, we see some publications and mainstream us near this. it will russia is blocking. they're not going to do anything. and some circle, separate more pressure on western capitals, including on the button and ministration to supply more lethal weapons. and to be, you know, more open about there's, you know, support for ukraine that would have consequences as you accurately noted, theater in your introductory remarks. this is the slide that no party can, can afford to lose. and we know when, when, and, you know, if, if we are to talk about the game here, there's obviously, there's no, there is some incentives for to, for, to be able to find some political settlements. but the way the west is approaching this conflict is that they can win this war of attrition with maxine, i mean,

but you know, i'm sorry and i'm agreeing with you here. but, you know, we had the entire min one in 2 and we have the same interlocutors, they did nothing, then they were not good faith actors. what, why should russia interact with them on, on a political level now? well, obviously i don't disagree with you on this one. it was perhaps a way to suggest that the, the policy makers in washington should look into the approach where they can believe that by over financing occurring over military supplying ukraine. they can get an upper hand here. and, you know, not charge any thinking in terms of a political settlement. scary now talking about the red lines in the manner and things like this. there's absolutely might be no appetite or political sentiment here. i have no appetite for political settlement. gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on nato's war on russian state with our team.

i want to with this with you, i guess with you i'm with

with full credit. it's going to be out of wood, from beach, but still, these are the decisions about in the board with with a classic who, what is the best time to go about them?

this is a little bit of a what i to school because an import backwards. thank say me something in my skin report, then it got daughter it the stephanie a clinician. okay. it but they get to work, which is said yes, the chest, i mean you can even down can be comma, listen, go and be a couple of somebody at the community that they've got a not all supposed to start up. they can still affected door only out of that so i didn't need it with us. that's clear but, but that was the building that's spoken to me, right? nobody for a full facility at them during the summer because i see that it was if we didn't, i was in shortcut based on last week and i left well it was, it was the case,

but i was then you beg us to work for you will that they try to give you that. i think it's an open up and i wish to have a a a ah welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter labelle.

tremonti were discussing nato's war on russia with is going to garland in, in d. c. i want to continue the discussion i was having with our maxine carolina, me and it was already mentioned here in december. the russians sent out 2 notes, all ultimatums, whatever you want to call them, to nato, into the united states. they were turned down. they were not taken seriously about the prospects of a, a military technical reaction to, for russia to ensure its security that was ignored. then we had february 24th, then we had the assemble process. we're lindsley zelinski regime appeared to be on the brink of making some kind of compromise to wind the war down. we know now that boris johnson and others blew it off, said no, we'll get it. we won't. if you make a peace, we're not going to be backing it. you don't have,

we won't have your back. ok, i mean, and we can go back 8 years if you want all the way from the qu, so i don't see any kind of settlement here. there's a joseph barrel, which is a buffoon, the chief diplomat for dip for europe. he said that it will be settled on the battlefield. well, that's one thing i agree with him on go ahead. garland, i don't necessarily agree with him on that as far as any type of diplomatic settlement, as we say here, and in the black community in america, there's a saying that goes like this, which i'm but somebody shows you who they are believe. so the reality is, they've got understand that the actual clean for the u. s. empire is not to get any kind of a settlement. it's to destroy russia, to tear russia to pieces and to steal the resources. you cannot bargain with someone who plans what a she can't bargain with a wolf. they plan to swallow you whole. so, but the issue, i think, is the battlefield right now. the weakness of nato, the weakness of you is political and economic. so it rushes right now,

their strength is to say, well, you've got people in the streets everywhere, they're not happy. you've. you just had a economic turn of events in italy. i mean political in sweden. so realistically, the, the, the right now, one of the things that i think that's happening with the u. s. as in power is coalition. you notice, i don't say nato, because nato is nothing but an umbrella organization for the u. s. to do to control europe's foreign policy. but right now their concern is that things are falling apart and if they're colo coalition is going to fall apart with the anger of the citizens. so i, you know, a lot of people think the battlefield. i don't think that's where this things decided. i think when the people of the europe start tearing europe, literally a brick by brick to pieces on either, there will be new leadership in europe, or there won't be much of your left cold, hungry, angry people are not rational and they can be very violent. well, larry, i,

i tend to agree with garland, but the americans will turn to the europeans and say, well, you have to suffer. ok. i mean, you know, that, that's one of the great mysteries for me. you know, we were, we have solidarity, western half of the americans, they'll give a hoot what happens to the europeans at all. ok. even less so about the ukrainians . larry right now with their almost being treated as if there are some human for the human toll, the spin experienced both by the ukrainians and by the russians along the border with ukraine. news is horrific, but the garland had it right with respect to that when people were cold and hungry, all the other politics disappear. and there is such an enormous disconnect right now between the political lead shipped in europe in the united states, and between the people that the average citizen, for example, in germany,

they're talking about good $3.10 businesses is already closed. that people are getting it hence with utility bills that are 56, sometimes 10 times what they were paying long family businesses that endured world war 2. if you can imagine that like a bakery or being forced to close down and what is the leadership in germany? talking about, oh, we need to set up a fund to promote more green energy. i mean, good god, this is madness. well, but that's no, i know they are and sorry i was going to add on top of that is that, you know, now there's talk about giving food stamps to america, american military personnel because because of inflation and in the same new cycle that neck, i've lost track, i don't know anybody can tell me how many tranches of military aid has been sent to ukraine this year. i've lost count of law under the number and the, the, the dollar price number here. i mean it's, it's amazing it,

but i'm agreeing with larry because this is an elite agenda here. maxime, you know, we're talking about the minutia now. but, you know, you're, you're a jew political thinker. there's no way back. i mean february 24th is a line in the sand. um because as i said like with mens $1.00 and $2.00 which is so obscure to western audiences, you know, this is not the 7th or 8th month of this conflict. this is the 8th year of this conflict. people don't understand that in the west year. but, you know, russia is making a complete re orientation elsewhere. because why would russia under any circumstances right now, deal with any of these western leaders. they're obviously off their rocker. go ahead, what i have to say, and i think everyone understands that there is just not just one battle going on, but a few battles, some few levels of the same time. you know, ukraine is a theater for really new world making, meaning, making processes globally. obviously enter one way in the

european politicians seek to deal with it is not to seek solutions for the crisis and, you know, some kind of deal with russia so to say, but the channel, the anger of their people that my colleague spoke about to russia right. the common were sula, lately that you can send your, you know, bills to moscow, shows you that there are no solutions for the problems that people have and names that they want to channel their anger towards rush that's wanting. secondly, they can, like i said, they believe that they buy a lot more financial aid and military hardware to ukraine is a solution or not the solution. and there's a new to the conference that i think there's also where is it likely to fail? secondly, i think both mosque, when and washington and brussels and other capitals in the west realize that there is a really big a global struggle for the athenians and the hearts and minds of the global south.

and the fact that you know, countries that are not in the west lea, a decisive role and how, you know, these countries play out in the welfare of russia. and the west is also telling that there is the era of $990.00. the kind of the human polar moment is gone and the multiple world is, is in the major. and finally, have to say there is a split between the interest of the united states and europe is the united states has been a lot more pragmatic than the european and exported russian gas in or, and dealing with the crisis of oil and exploring other material and resources from russia and trying to hedge their own risks here and then emerge as a, quote unquote mediator into conflict when everyone else's finds themselves in terrible shape. that i think is also spotted in moscow. ah, it, well it's, it's,

it's really interesting garland because the way i look at this here in the big picture of it all the, the entire e u project and this ridiculous offensive organization, nato, it's all on the line right now because everybody's all in on this here, that's why i said in my introduction, one side will lose and badly. and that's the stakes that we see right now. the entire e u project. that thing is, it's a and, and, and nato is at stake here. and the russians know it. go ahead, garland. yeah, because what we're seeing is a contradiction and obvious contradiction between the us empire and the concept of democracy. and so now we're seeing that the people in europe are figuring out that they don't have democracy. they don't have independence, they don't have sovereignty, they don't have a leadership that is looking out for their constituency, and they're not going to be happy about that. i think you also have to look at this through the context worldwide in the u. s. is trying to up the, the heat on taiwan also. so to some extent,

i think we have 3 super powers. i believe we have a fairly responsible government in china, fairly responsible. got government in russia and a bunch of med dogs in washington. and that, unfortunately for russia and china, it is kind of incumbent upon their leaders to usher in a new world order without um, provoking or get without the getting these mid dogs to a point that they push a nuclear button. i believe it can be done and i believe that's why russia and china, so it's showing so much constraint. i think they understand that and i think they will, they will be able to do that. ok, larry, take take a swing at that. that's really interesting. what garland just said there is, are there reason well enough people in washington to, to get that because we're in that the cities trap. ok. and we see it left right and centre. are they going to right to make the right make the right decision? evidence would say they won't go ahead. larry. washington is infested with corrupt, little pushes right now. all these tiny, tiny people with tiny,

tiny brains running around what has had, what has happened is and gone correctly noted it the when history looks back at this period, this will be the formation of a new world order in terms of the multi polarity, the end of united states had gemini in the world, the end of the united states, as the holder of the reserve currency. and the united states did it to itself. russia did not look for this cause they didn't try to provoke this. russia kept looking and thinking, i think i'm naive, lee, that there was going to be some adult in washington d. c. they would step opposite that. ok, look, let's put all this other nonsense aside. let's talk. and they didn't do that. they said, yeah, we can, we can defeat russia. let's impose sanctions and not a single soul. and the intelligence community is the best i can determine, sat down and said, hey, what do we do about the fact that russia is self sufficient economically,

and controls a whole range of commodities and minerals and rare earth minerals that we need in the west to survive with larry, the set them on. the interesting thing is, is a rush. oh they makes up 3 percent of g d global g d p. well, who would have thought that 3 percent was really important? nobody, nobody sat down the powder, the cost. i mean that's was so truly shocking about this. and now there is literally the economics tsunami that's headed our way. it's going to affect the mobile depression. if anybody thinks that the collapse of the economy in germany, it will just be an isolated event. then you know that there's no basis to have a discussion with somebody that's stupid. yeah. well i don't know that. that's why you know, i don't watch cable tv outside of tucker carlson. all right,

gentlemen. fascinating discussion. i want to thank my guests in washington, tampa, and in moscow, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. see you next time. remember crosstalk rules. ah, ah. ah no one, no, no, no, no, no. what was the limitation of ah, unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly

biological weapons program that the world had ever known. real to production, but it gives you enough keel to build on it so newly. he'll keep on no money to know martha. this is miss nunez warner and i got the sale on monday. i wish to know about julie hill who knew he didn't more than a jail it's. i had a little cold weather and all buddy bill, you know, nice little want to on this. she my new on it and all i is animal simone gates in the you know,

put them out to give us a nice a russian state. never the phone and the northland scheme again was the 55. been okay. so stevie when else calls with will ban in the european union. the kremlin media machine, the state on russia for date, and c, r t spoke nick, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with

you to look up for a muscle on noon noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on a nice to me as place to mom with his ashley of a day see, wanted to work with the cool position with you, but not looking for the chino bryanston. that'll work for phones or something like that. and then we go at that point, did that with

a with the center of the city of kind of thought has been heavily shells by at least 5 high marsh rockets killing and injuring civilians according to local authority. sanctions and protection is a not a mere potent lashes out at you. politicians for failing to ease restrictions on russian fertilizer exports found for developing countries. in his speech at the shanghai cooperation and an air strike, it kills at least 10 people in ethiopia, northern tie, gray regions. the territory has long faced unrest with little responds from the international community, which means remains focused on ukraine. a .