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ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things considered i peter lavelle during the cold war, washington policy on europe was to keep the russians out, the americans in the germans down. in many respects, the same policy remains and play the day with the germans. now they have some different ideas. and how is that ice leading russia plan going? ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. he's an award winning journalist and commentator, and in budapest we have george samuel lee. he's a podcast to read the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals originally across stock rules. in fact, i mean you can jump anytime you want and i would appreciate it. i. let's start out

with george in budapest because it's quite interesting to me, georgia because of the situation in ukraine. the hall german question has arisen again. ok. and so if i count the decade, this is a 100 year plus from the german question. the germans are not doing enough. the germans are being to assert of the germans thinking more about themselves. they are, they want to expand the european union no matter what comes out of the chance or is office of a sergeant schultz. somebody's got some gripe with it. it's really quite interesting . and i don't think it's gotten nearly enough coverage that exerts your thoughts really. all right, peter, and what's really troubling is the mounting hysteria in germany because this is a country that oversees a very talented country. but it's prone to hysteria, was prone to hysteria about russia in particular before. well, one and again,

robot russia. before world war 2, something of the sort is re emerging today with sergeant schultz as you want it. on the other day, he went to the book fair, and he told them that as the most popular nation with a great this economic power is a country in the middle of a continent, our army must become the cornerstone of defense in europe. we paid much attention to this. germany will be the key military power in europe, largely because of the nato. great, and if it's benito, everyone's warrant. and people still imagine that the germans are like the sort of they kind of sneak past this diet. we remember from the seventy's and eighty's. well, that doesn't mean that just because that's the way they were in the seventy's and eighty's doesn't mean that that's the way they're always going to be. they are now openly saying that we need to prepare for

a conflict with russia or show so that we need to prepare for a conflict with russia. and again, no one pays any attention to this. and a all talking about europe must unite against russia and europe. and i under german, all, this is the biggest on the spot in europe. i see, you know, that that's the red mart. that was the question i was going to be, as he usually does here. bear with me. because the way the fox and other german officials, i sometimes wonder where germany begins a u. n and vice versa. and then again, we're putting up claiming that germany will spend 1000000000 euro on rearmament the 20th century wasn't that long ago martin go?

yeah, yeah, i mean, actually i'm going to sort of cushions of the wind. i don't think $100000000.00 a 100 years is that much money when talking about military spending? because remember, couple things. first of all, the military side of germany was under, under finance for right on time is also quite chaotic. so there's a lot of catching up to do. also. they sent a lot of their kids to ukraine. so like france, they're very much on the results. when it comes to their own military and the real world paranoia, i mean george really made me laugh. they talked about hysteria. i worked for jim and tv, which i guess i know about germany, syria, to get me started on that real hysteria is there isn't, there is no, no, there are no good final outcome with germany in the ukraine war. because they'll warrant that putin is we'll look for some on to blame if things get worse. and what germany is trying to do is contribute to the ukranian efforts would not be a big player. so that's why they just recently held back sending big guns which

ukraine's are really pissed off about. they're also dragging their feet about circle leopard tanks, which may or may not materialize. you know, germany does not want to be identified as the key deal breaker in the conflict because it is afraid that russia will hit germany. and this is what part of this is designed to invent a corporal shoots. you make a massage and i think you've given great credit co shoot that in the parliament where you go the deputies roaring. you know for the 1st time and probably 30 is you know, a leader in germany. ashley could say to the parliament, when you spend much more money, i'm going to be spending a not everybody went, oh no, we really should think about that. i mean, let's look at history. you know, we're going to go to a, it's a low baseline. however, we're given history, i have to be delicate here, given history. once the germans put their mind to something they tend to take on a life of its own here and take the hysteria. and i think that's a good word,

that hysteria about what's going on in you crime, which should have been very avoidable. but this is george. this is a kind of a vector where we see where the germany and the you are synonymous. i mean, the joints mark, everybody adored in germany, and they accepted the you or the euro because it was the replacement for the deutsche mark. and so you know that this is essentially a pro german agenda with and george with expansion. well, obviously these are for german goods to go to, i mean, this is a pattern from the 20th century before the 1st and 2nd world war. go ahead. yes it is. and it's very interesting. the german is now pushing for this expansion of the you and one of the germans are aware that it's not going to be easy to get any countries into the, you know, less. i can create that kind of a de facto, you know,

just by having association agreements and so on. so now i'm pushing for georgia and moldova, now to be inside the you, why are they doing this? well, other than the george and we'll go very useful as a weapon against russia. everything that, you know, sergeant shoot, said, was about how do we mobilize against russia. russia, is the of, you know, this is, you know, we all values ah alien to run it. but he was projecting on to put in is defining himself in opposition to the nature rather than we, we, europeans, under german leadership defining ourselves in opposition to we've heard this before. exactly. that's why it's so striking that there's this kind of talk

which is very different from the talk in germany, in the 970. this is much, much the old style germany. and again, you have to go back to 1990. when there were a lot of people concerned about german reunification, including the united kingdom and france and johnson, elmwood go, he wrote a letter to all of the leaders of the world and said, chance will only piece will emanate from german soil. and i guess people were reassured, sold off by the 1st few months later, germany went ahead, recognize croatians losing him. but this is late. germany is quite clever in the way it plays the game any it wants to present itself on the one hand as well. really, you know, you know, you know, what we say goes on the other. well, you know, we have a historic responsibility with a trouble and we don't like war. and really we go, you know, we don't want to send these particular weapons,

but they do send this weapons. they are getting involved in ukraine. that's why all the historic presidents, they are very actively involved in your grant and training your gradients. i mean, i was going back to the 1940 s when they're actually actively trading ukrainians. well, and also as a sidebar here, we're going to, so we know germany for reparations, for the 2nd world war as a separate b, y, and the oil meant the ball this, i think, you know what we're saying here is true. but what does washington think of all of this? you know, having a strong germany is ok to a certain extent, as promised. germany doesn't challenge america with gemini in europe. and this whole situation with ukraine has solidified america with gemini as the expensively europeans, which of course we all know. so this germany is angling for repositioning itself in europe. it still has to be under the auspices of washington's control. that's well,

does it, i mean, i was in a nice done in 2008 on a french general that told me the big thinking from france was to create a european pillar with in nature. and i wonder whether germany isn't it just now to soldier ahead to give the palm with a new military spending bonanza, you know, of a $100000000.00. one shot and about $70000000000.00 a year, which is more or less in line with britain, france. i wonder whether this is a way of signaling to america. look, we are going to go ahead. we are going to build this huge omby. probably a few other member states will join us in any excursions around the world that we like to get involved in. you know, a bit of the dabbling and a few conflicts in the middle east. maybe a bit of a few boat patrols because of libya, old conflict in africa. you know, the sort of thing is, is germany forming by default. and he, you are me because the federalists in brussels. i was there for 10 years. it was pretty boring. i can tell you. for 10 years all i heard was over and over again.

you know, we needed to you army and macaroni push this since you crime they did the entropy ins count for me or any on me. they can't decide on budget. they can't decide who runs it. is it some bureaucrat in brussels? usually i can see if there is a mistake, you know, the germans, i think by default by going ahead with this plan, i'll probably signaling the hey, we can, how many you are me, but it will be an informal one lent by the germans for, for doing their peacekeeping or humanitarian work around the world and a be a few people to join it like romanians indicated they would be italian spanish and maybe the french as well. and it will be called a new army by default, but it won't be of brussels. you on it'll be one led by germany, which is the horrible nightmares of brussels full of that he is come home to you on me, which is led by germany units and also a nightmare. don't forget the german people,

a lot of people in germany are really uncomfortable. about any kind of strong military force around the world, you know, throwing its way to room. and i was in, when i was in afghanistan, i spent a day with german army on the toughest africanist on border. and you know, general of the asked i talking to me about, you know, maybe germany at one point in the future doing its own thing around the world with these friendships. you know, so we've got all this to look forward to my guess is that germany will forge ahead with the so called you army, which is going to cause all sorts of problems politically within europe's going to cause problems with the americans. because then, you know, what do we do about nato? does that still have it? so it's, it's, it's cloud, its influence around the world with europeans on board. you know, and i'm, i would guess i would put a wager the next conflict of this so called new you or me gets involved in brussels will step up the last moment and convince the jumbo to put an e, u on band all the soldiers that colon the you are me anyway. i gotta jump in here.

we're going to go to a short break after that chopper. we'll continue our discussion on some real stay. ah, ah. what's that before the moment it on a more was a call with them on live today. and i don't yeah, but there is an annual this is on the course. the don't don't play and i'm i'm just needing someone to do it, but i'm about to lose a my just at them. that's clearly kind of it's a monsieur marcella. i will come and get a better price. all right, sir. joe, which shall i get into the system. but also

what about i should deal on that because i said that was in the middle. yes. specials. the emotion thing is you need to know the whole team were like almost 2000000 in march. that was the window. it was monitored with the machine. this wasn't very complex from optimal, but i don't know if she'll do this on my less the won't do it and get it to the she just said i was a chef is telling me to go when you get it all and good as well as a safe for me on august, telling me about this and anything complex bonuses me deal and now i'm chest and you know, i mostly in the bush school, but i will look up on an appoint also. boy, we will pick it up under my shannon just to know,

but i mean, you going it will, but the more than a motion and the physician, i will i for it in the region. yes sir, i'm going to go live on. we're going is way, much in the way when you said i put a to a local towards postage over the city and wish to be the past. not really. right. that's what it was really for interview. bringing that i should be able to talk to me. you come over to see if there was a shoot me a note from the show so i can see what kind of stuff this is one to share for me. and they also showed him and that told us he had the same it about them. i was, well, i shall bong out custodians of it. mm. mm

hm. welcome back to cross i for all things considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home edition. remind you we're discussing some real. ah . all right, let's go back to georgia, budapest here. you like to react to what martin had to say before we went to the break? well, i think it is going to be a delegation of responsibilities. i think the, the americans will be quite happy to see germany, ron european, branch of nature, and as father, what kind of global nature, which i think is what the united states will like to create. the americans will focus on the far east as part of the containment of china. america can be everywhere the whole time. so i think that's why i think germany will be very useful as america, loyal tenants in europe. and, but it's interestingly it's,

it's kind of the soviet nightmare from the 960, which is, they were suspected that some i went to what's whence germany becomes very young. and it basically will take over nato and, and they, you know, essentially america will be doing germany's bidding. think more of the slime. all of them are just doing america's bidding, or some combination of the to learn. i mean, history still intrudes here. i mean, like i mentioned, this is a sidebar. poland is so in germany for reparations. the 2nd world war and then when we hear them, germany, maybe i'm putting some tank battalion in the baltic. republics. i mean, those of us know history and it's like, wow, it didn't take that long for a certain pattern direct to repeat itself here. it's not the having a european army run by the germans is there's a lot of people swallowing very hard. ok, i mean there, it's still,

there are some people still alive? remembering that conflict, i don't think it's i don't think you can do that. they slip that easy. go ahead. yeah, but i think the real world is that we go over this line of simply humanitarian work or 8 work around the world and we start getting more serious conflicts. i mean, the point that george much about americans and nature in china just want to be those, well, they want to be and right to taiwan, as well as they've indicated that as this starts to let you know, ring alarm bells. when we talk about russia, you know, we should forget history. we shouldn't forget the most politicians of schultz era sil, of a huge, huge complex about what happened in russia. they got their asses kicked. i mean, really kicked in, not just inside grant, but before moscow as well, you know, of what the world will serious bbc is. very good. so i think we should, we should always remember that i think the german elite keep changing the minds that keep jumping above all over the place woman if they want to be gung ho next minute, they want us to retract and they don't really know how to handle the situation they,

i think the real worry you know, is that this was coalition government, which is incredibly, an experience which has green su, seem to be bang in the wardrobe. the st. greens, who in the eighty's campaign against nato campaign against the, the german army expanding and now they've, they're the ones you want to bump that out of ukraine. there's a lot of confusion and i think come, we need a sobriety when we talk about germany and on and i don't know where that comes from . but some, let's see how things pan out. i think. i think there will be a certain restraint on the germans site or in the coming weeks when we see the next move by putin in ukraine. you know, i don't see germany as the best. the warmongers, as the ones are really champion jumping any conflict as we worry. they don't have a good history on that. even recently, they still, you know, one of the things, it's not mentioned about german military complex. it is really badly organized and has a lot of corruption. you know, so whatever we we, we expect to happen isn't gonna happen very quickly,

which will about ukraine when we talk about arming anything around the world. i think the european union is going to step in, i think is going to be a huge debate now in european parliament. don't love the only parliament in the world that doesn't try. a proposed roughly deflation is a disney world. i think we're going to have a debate in brussels and i think you are gonna see the emergence of some sort of you on the probably with germany leading because tell me what was on you? well, hey, we put the most money into the pot, you know, and that's always been the argument. you know, it will be the same. and i think that's the reason why the company is magic number 100000000 and we're going be on the 2 percent. i'm national g to be budget because you know, there is the signal this other member states, hey, if you do the same thing, then you could become part of a club. and you know, we got a few ideas about place who let to go in the world, you know, and maybe even the french would like to turn to the gym to say, hey, we got some real problems in some, or at colonies in france. we kicked us out like molly, you know, perhaps you could help with that. you can see the picture on it. you just look just

look where rushes filled, the vacuum in africa. and you can see where german planners, you know, i mean there was a report in the german poem and about 2 or 3 years ago, i read about it, which said, we must do more independently around the world with our military. that should be worrying to of your use or it started george. or i do want to switch gears here a little bit. george, it, at the, the reaction, wesley react, the russian special, but military operation. ukraine was through 2 things, break the back of the russian economy and isolate russia, doorbells, well, number one, economy is that initial hit, but it's absorb the sanctions. i can tell our audience here. most russians are not aware of say on there. okay, that's how people feel. psycho one isolating rush on the global stage. that's now working out too well. also, george, the global south is basically shrugged it off. it's a european problem. even if you look at some of the major countries in the global

south, the actually saying, well, but you, the west, you created this, you fix it. why should we get on board? and, and because europe has gone down this idiot, it energy policy and you just say the psychotic. as far as i can see, ok, and everyone will take the large se, let's take the slack. why not keep energy, make you rich. it's going to make us rich here. so, i mean, so why don't we put in his foreign minister and they have plenty of people to meet . and you know, as we have the general assembly in the united nation demo, assembly, lot of people want to talk to the russian. is that plan of isolation is physic work . and george, it is quite remarkable. and this russia, that is the demonized, you know, we don't want that his theory in germany, but it's a serious run europe in the united states. and every media store you read russia is isolated put in facing increasingly,

matic isolation. so he goes to some and then he has meetings with very well meeting is a meeting with thing. again, a very warm and then want talking about cooperation. all the different projects that they're going to be working on. you know, the trade agreements that they get to sign. this is knowing anything in there. i think it was russia to, i was, you know, the western and russia, and that's why, you know, you really feel the west is just completely living in its own delusional world. and not realizing that's the rest of the world. you know, this is, you know, the most popular nations of the war to not look up on russia and ukraine in the way that the western countries, they a lot of sympathy for russia and they have concerns, acknowledge that they have concerns. and obviously everyone has concerns about a war that's dragging on, you know, seems, seemingly inconclusive. it,

but they regard russia as a partner. and that's something that the west is completely failed to take on board . and it is really the result of long standing soviet and then a russian diplomacy that they have no very solid relations with many of the emerging countries in the world. now marty, interesting, i mean, obviously the conflict and ukraine is front and center and it's, it's a vector which everyone decides. so again, condemn whatever. but, you know, i look at, in a broader sense that there's, there's a rejection of this roles based water, which i have no idea what that means. no one really does. and i would just say go even further. western western values and culture, it's more and more alien to most of the world. this walk is post modernism. this is something that most people,

the world can't make heads or tails. maybe they'll see legs and kind of chuckle, but that's something that most of the world has no like, no interest in embracing at all. it's again a west west is very alien to most of the world. yeah, and i think that the real world is to, is the people around the world come home to think this whole ideology has become people in western countries don't even believe anymore in those western values. last few days in britain i've been short to see on social media, the number of people who have been arrested for protesting the queen's funeral. sometimes just with a white piece of paper saying, my king, you know, we've been coming to turn states in the west and it sent me to buy millimeter a salami. slice by salamis, light is happening. and so it's very difficult for people to take the ukraine war seriously if we keep on bang on this. john bout democracy in western values. anita,

particularly when we're funded to a large extent near nancy groups to do some really awful work. let me just become so polarized and so it just, it just emits, you know, the media now just admits the stories that he doesn't want to to, to run which, which, which conflict with narrative and run the stories that those wants. what just yesterday we saw repulse from france, 24 of this huge mass grave supposedly discovered by ukraine soldiers. but if you dig a little bit deeper, look into it. it actually wasn't a mass grave. it was a graveyard. you know, when people were buried in coffins i'll, you know, names are put on crosses, you know, and, but, you know, there's a few western germans were invited along to film it and to dish out the moral tutelage to us all, you know, and i wonder how long is it gonna last? i wonder how long you know people are actually going to swallow this nonsense. we've got a g 20 meeting coming up very soon, which i suspect who will attend. but most western leaders will not attend

themselves. they'll send dignitaries or invoice or whatever, you know this i'm in the middle of people dropping dead freezing to death in the u . k. for example, during winter, i think, you know, media i can see in britain is already johnny asking some harder and harder questions than else then i'll staying in it. what is really the justification of this war? and i just recently, a british tabloid run huge page where it compared all the sanctions that we impose on russia. but the russians were having a cheaper food, cheaper energy, you know, people that boasting on social media, they're running out boss all day long. you know, and in britain, you know, we've literally almost become a 3rd world country. it's not a joke. you know, people can afford to eat no more on this. this slogan, all social media, heat or eat is going to be a hash tag where it soon isn't already, you know, and people are going to start asking more more questions. and when we boycott that g 20 meeting, i think there's going to be a turn around in weston opinion. you know, because a lot in on this program we always ask questions here. that's why people watch.

it's all right. what we've run out of time want to thank when it gets america and a book. that's what i think our viewers are watching us here are the see you next. i'm remember. ah ah ah, with a ah,

[000:00:00;00] with breaking news from dawn bought at least 13 people, including 2 children are killed in massive artillery shelling by ukrainian forces in the city center. that's according to local authority. this is for 11th grade. we learned that natural socialism are not too good. they were heroes. grades are corresponded on covers neo nazi propaganda, ukrainian school textbook, as he travels to the city of scott, all in the country where phone regents, tomato admit it had been planning to expand that the military presence along