an engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, that lies with this ally went on as ukrainian forces shell don't get city. once again, at least 6 civilians are said to have been killed. the referendum adjoining russia on the way and forward disputed regions. attacks have been intensified with her. should i just use it with prisoner exchange? these 55 soldiers were turned to russia while ukrainian service men handed over by moscow. do include members of the infamous assault. but talia

with the headlights are not t, as the british prime minister accused as rusher over while the wrong treatment of the prisoners of war. despite the u. k is rather questionable record will have a closer look at that in the program with us here with the program a lot from moscow. this is our t international straight to our top story for you right now. and that is at the latest shelling by ukrainian forces of don't ex city has left at least 6 people dead. 6 others enjoy this according to local officials. to warn you, the following footers contains graphic images, residential areas are green coming under a time since the early hours of the morning. as we understand they are continuing. a bus was hit scattering body parts across the road. another shell hit the roof and indoor market. and the shell income was just a day before a referendum one,

whether or not to join to russia is held in the republic as autism would add gas div. now reports plus 24 hours have seen a series of tragic events, especially what happened earlier of styles it go in and then yet people hear about these. are these latest shillings these, these new casualties and people are becoming desensitized to them. nevertheless, 6 people killed 6 injured among those killed a 14 year old girl. that is worth bearing in mind that even though this is at this point because of ukrainian bombardment, which is blind in character with little purpose, but the so tara, amongst the civilian population, that every single day there's a new tragedy in that yet. where is my son? where is he? where? tell me where they all are. my son was on the bus radio i showed that he

shut the shell. hit here, man is lying here. there are some others, mama, i am lucky that i survived. i saw the shall fly in here just moments before you like a bill. i read your than eunice were similar to the shoulders for 8 years and they just continue how to ask them why they're shelling there in humane just for the full us here was shelling by the ukrainian army may directly hit the bus and there was another 2nd hit further away in the city. in the 2nd strike there were no casualties. been the 1st here. 6 people died including one child. the wounded were taken away. they will be ok. that was of course, all and i in than yet square the shelling continues me. we expect more casualties every, every day here in your son are the ukrainian military yesterday attack with american high miles missiles, a fire station, which were, which didn't have any military targets in the vicinity,

anywhere near. but as well as the uni river crossing would connect your son to the east and bag of the near port river. it is the only crossing by which this entire city is supplied with, with food, with medicines, by which people take their loved ones relative to hospitals. who elsewhere and the other side of the river civilian crossing was also struck. thankfully, fortunately, it wasn't in use at the time to view the platform itself. the bud was significantly damaged in military people. another city's up at osha, someone planted a bomb in a closed shop, 6 people injured there, i am the acts of terror that is being now investigated. believe to have been conducted by ukrainian nationalists to once again spread tara, amongst the civilian population. on the eve of a 5 day vote referendum across multiple provinces regions and breakaway

republics, the nearest la gods have sought soraya where people will get would be given a very simple choice, whether they would like to vote to join russia. now for security here, ease ease on alert, on high alert, i would say ukrainian bombardment, publications are expected to morrow everywhere where the vote is taking place. perhaps to scare people away from voting in this referenda, but the what it has served to do this endless shelling the, these are active, active tara is, is turn, and we have noticed this turn even lose people who supported ukraine, who were against russian presents here to turn them against ukraine. well, it's a pleasure to have a boy with us here in the studio at the host of course of well, it's great to see you today to see if you are you, hey, listen, we're just watching what ads package just now about these referendums taken place as we understand it will be in at least 4 regions outside of talk to me just quickly. what is the significance of the timing?

well, it would be hard to say that in a couple of words, there is massive significance historically geopolitically. but what i would focus on is the military significance, because essentially by supporting this referenda, what russia is saying is, well, it's, i think, a nice trolling of native charter, an attack against them will be an attack against us. and that's completely changes the way these military operation will be perceived, both in moscow and hopefully in the west as well, because it will allow russia to use different kinds of armaments. it will allow russia to use different kinds of strategies, and i hope it will impact decision making on the western side as well. because, you know, sending weapons to be far as against what russia considers its own territory. if something different than standing weapons, to kill people and don't boss, although guns, i mean people die this in the same way, but i think your politically it would be a totally different game and we'll see how the west will react for now. they try to

paint it in a way of panicking, but i think from the point of view, it's an escalation. it's a military escalation. and russia is essentially calling the western block. because up until now, the west saw that it was fighting a proxy game. it was using ukraine to fight with russia, but now that now nowadays russia says ok, you want to fight you, you're going to fight the that it does seem like that. ok on. it certainly seems like putting this up in the n t right now as well, and very consciously. yeah, and i was watching what blink in america was saying, just the other day. and he said here in washington, we are really worried. we genuinely worried about what food and is planning to do and you know what, i'm glad to hear that frankly. ok on it. it's good to share washington. a good to say to hear what? no, not a blast. he said, yeah, yeah. that's why like, yeah, he's actually pretty straightforward edition. he's not hiding behind the rhetoric. he says what he means and what he's going to do. it's not hard to make sense of what is in his head. there are so many criminologist in washington who for some

reason just cannot take, put in was straight and he's always very direct about. he speaks in very measured, logical statements, very measured words. and when you hit western politicians, western leaders, as you say, there's a lot of fluff involved in the grandiose statement because you believe, for some reason the perception is reality and rushing the other way around. reality is reality, and he's telling them, this is our intentions. those are our red lines. you can decide not to cross them. we can agree on, you know, mutual, mutually agreeable way to close this. but if you disagree, we will go and impose our well, well, i mean, wish focus on a lateral said just yet the day, the russian foreign minister said just the other day that america is teetering on the brink of being a direct party to the conflict in ukraine, and that is a wiring statement as well. well. well i don't, i'm not sure it's a warning statement for the russians. i mean, the russians have seen this conflict, not as a war with the ukrainians, not as a special military operation. i mean,

it's a special military operation, only in the contained sense that it has not mobilized the entire russian society. so it's, it's limited and contained but the russians are pretty clear that this is not between dumb and ukrainians. it's between them and the west and put him and his defense minister showing that i'm going to set a date. we are seeing that there's a conference with nader and the collector was to stop. that's right. he said, basically, ukraine run out of run out of weapons. months ago, we've been fighting nato's latest and greatest military technologies. now for the past few months. now, look, ukraine's being devastated. right now it's been squeezed right in the middle from all the sides on the west. and, and russia, and this is katie, tragedy much more for, for us, the russians down for the west. because most of us have families in the ukraine. i'm myself, coffee, bring in, i have relatives there and it pains us a great deal. but again, the if, if there is a war, you have to fight. they be, you know, the western press and western governments keep on saying, well, you know,

russia started this war and ukraine, 6 months ago, you know, it's old putins full. but let's be realistic here. the war started 8 years ago for the war it seems to be realistic. and honestly, the erotic the worst started long ago. and i think the, the core of this conflict is that is western in systems on it's have germany, not only political, but economic, germany and in systems that it's only washington and a couple of its allies who can dictate other countries how to conduct the affairs, how to leave in this world how to use their resources. what's good and what's bad. now, i'm in the russians. the russians have never agreed to that flee, but for a long time they've been rather weak. they thought they would integrate themselves into the west. but i think for that to, to, to happen even, even if you're thinking about theoretically the west would also have to go its own half half way and it refused to do so. we know that zaleski is ukrainian president is still asking washington for longer and longer range missiles. now we also know

that have been cross border attacks. it's not being mentioned in the western press, but belgrade, for example, other regional towns along the borderline down there, they have been getting shelled by ukrainian arguments. typically they turn out to be nato shells, with nato serial numbers in the shrapnel. do you think in light of putin's reason statements about using all means necessary to to defend the sovereign integrity of russia and the russian federation? do you think that washington might call up soleski and say chill out a bit, buddy? shell out of it. don't be going for these long range missiles. we don't want to make this any worse than it already is. i doubt so, because i think when we look at the logic of american and the ukrainian decisions, they're pretty rational have this point of time. and i think many analysts here and most believe that there is the problem with washington as they see it is that there is no single center of decision making there. you know, i think it was henry kissinger used to say that, when do you want to call you or who do you call? and he was sort of making a point about the sort of diffuse power within the year. i think it's the same in,

in washington. this is because you have the salad, one camp you have the blinking camp. you have joe biden, who cannot find himself on the stage. but the serious, i mean like we can joke about that, but this is, this is supposed to be a man who makes decisions about what's, what's happening in another country that is on the border group, another nuclear or power. and this man cannot find himself, you know, in the wrong ways to go to venture or something like that. you know, we, it's not about, you know, calling him names. i mean, real and russia does have greatest respect to the elders. but it needs to be recognized the americans themselves, but this has been vitamins of that power, you know, a leader who is supposed to be the leader of the free world. who can live with me and sing are on the nuclear boston. absolutely. you know, like i said, let me look, you lose me. i'm going to talk about it looks like he's got some sort of early stages of dementia and i'll just say it. but i want to, i want to say, you know, you mentioned a moment ago on a,

you mentioned henry kissinger and we talk about massive spook in washington. a guy who's been around going back to all the way that the nixon for example. and it was going back to nixon and clinton's bushes, re guns, and all these guys, they all took a moment at that podiums at one time or another to talk about that of the new world order. they all said this. every administration mentioned this over these past recent decades. it seems that putin is now talking about the emotions of a new multi polar world that the original hedge a monic n w perhaps is now in its death throes in its final stage. it, is there a significance? look at the s c o summit just last week and his back is done in some con, they're all singing the tune of this multi polar. well, i'm not sure multi polar world is here yet, but it's pretty clear that western century world is over. and my worry is that these people will not get on the stage without burning the whole player place down. because for some reason, and i don't understand that psychologically,

for some reason they, they're holding onto that gemini, even though they cannot deal with it. and you've been running many of the speeches on the general assembly and leader after leader has been saying that, you know, the west cannot manage the world anymore. we saw that independence and the distribution of drugs and masks and everything else. when the country, the most developed countries demonstrated the most selfish behavior, they weren't, you know, catering to others. they weren't helping the most vulnerable. we seem the same thing with these latest grain in the green one. you know, whenever there is a deal, it's only the one that takes the benefits. and i think that's the gist of the conflict here. and it's not just because between russia and the west, but it's also between the western privileged world that is used to taking resources from everybody else. and in filling them with a sense of inferiority to keep that dependence of the wisdom and the rest of the world. that wants to develop according to their own wishes. and in this regard,

sovereignty is not some ideological after concept sovereignty. the only way of surviving in this world very unpredictable when you have to make decisions for your population very quickly, rather than waiting for them to decide what's best for him. and them give you the rules of proper behavior. you bring up the issue of sovereignty and i think it's, it's well couldn't be more pertinent time for we've heard from president put in many times now about the importance of protecting the sovereignty of the state. just for a moment, let's have a listen to all right. now that this is still, she's the 1160 years. we firmly learned that it's mostly dangerous for russia to weaken its sovereignty even for a while to abandon national interests. during such periods, the very existence of russia was threatened to waiting for us to make such mistakes . again, we will not succumb to blackmail and intimidation will never betray or lose our sovereignty. and by strengthening it, we're developing our country. we will never betray our sovereignty. that's what the

russian president vladimir putin is saying right there. why? ok, so why is he so focused on that? well, it's not just him a yet again, i will remind the my thought before we ran that god grab of putin is that sovereignty has become the means of survival and development. it's an ability to make the decisions for your people on a short term basis, very urgently, because we're living in a very unpredictable world pandemic. so you know, assumptions what have you and the leaders need to be able to be connected with our own populations. what the west has assumed until now until now is that essentially it was always the choice between national south south hoop and access to prosperity . the whole idea of globalization is based on the idea that you can participate in the global economic system. if you play along with the west, if you play along with washington, and that's why the west always introduces sections and tries to limit the countries

participation in the global economy as a way to punish them for the recall centers or for that disagreement with the western wisdom and more and more countries in it's not just russia, but all the countries. major countries have benefited from globalization be china, india, south africa, brazil, many others, georgia, for example. they're all saying that, okay, you know, mobile economy is not the american economy. it's not for the american leads to grab it, it's for all of us and we all have to leave find a way of living in this world immune for respect, but also mutual benefit. we don't have to sort of yield all the advantages to the west. and one last thing i want to mention is that this idea of american hegemony, whether it's couch and a logical terms, or whether it's simply the pursued be very cynical pursuit of economic benefits. it doesn't serve the american people themselves because if we look at the social data in the united states in the west, the rates of suicide, the rates of obesity,

the rates of depression, the rates of that, and deaf we will see that the america, the americans and many people and the west are not leaving good lives. i mean, that lives in quantitative terms have become worse than it used to be. the government immediate will tell them differently. they'll tell you that your standard of living is the best it's ever been. but i mean, it's a lot of objective data. if you look at the data in india, russia, china, people's living standards and that quality of live life, the diffraction has increased. can you say the same for there was no, nobody can calling about a people's perception of quality is deteriorating and it corresponds to the reality because you know, the governments are, or rather the lease, solving their own problems rather than being focused on people. that's what the government is also on, and it's always a little people that pay the price because well, last for the little people, you never see any of the top dogs getting you to trouble, hopefully not anymore. i mean at least now russia is taking i think and it's. 2

long overdue many people in russia would tell you that it's long overdue, but it's taking a principal position to defend the people. is it? is that it's, it has a grown up backbone, so to speak, on the global stage. yeah. well, if i think that russia, russia has finally decided that it's not going to choose between the self within prosperity, it's ready to suffer. it's ready to stand on its own feet. it's ready to be sanction or punished by the west, but it wants to be itself, it wants to develop from within. and this is what putting actually also sad that you know, our sovereignty is actually the present, the major precondition for our internal development. because we've been leaving for years with the west telling us that we are somehow inferior. we are not up to sunday. then there was been telling that to pretty much every year self, but you know, self sufficient nation, but nothing more on a i don't have any more time left. but i love having you here in the studio. of course, the host of will depart the guy, just give me 20 seconds here. if you got any interesting guests or topics coming up

in your future programs to be short term. yeah, i talk to more, i'm interviewing our former advisor to be prime minister and joe, and it's a precious opportunity for me because we still can talk to some of the people in the west. hopefully that will continue to be the case, but we'll see. all right on the board because to well, to part was a pleasure. thank you. thank you. well, thanks for joining us. you're not international. always preachers appreciate you joining us here for this would always a busy day this week with the referendums in the for don bass republics that regions down there also the un general assembly, the live coverage as well. we appreciate you joining us here at archie international. any stories want to catch up on you could do so on our website r t dot com. ah.

so without normally scheduled program here, when art international now, a prisoner swap has taken place between moscow and the russian defense ministry says 55 russian military service men have arrived home from ukrainian captivity and anal receiving medical will look like a force known as a result of a complex exchange negotiation process, 55 servicemen of the armed forces of the russian federation. don. yes, can lou canst republics, who were in mortal danger and captivity were returned from the territory of ukraine controlled by the key of regime tonight? all military personnel have been transported by military transport aircraft to the territory of the russian federation, and currently in medical institutions of the russian defense ministry. the return

service men have been given the opportunity to contact their relatives and it being provided with all necessary psychological and medical assistance. the russian troops landed wednesday at the military airport just outside moscow. also, members of the notorious neo nazi as of the tale and captured during the seizure. marianna were also among those exchange for russian servicemen, several western fighters including 5 british and i'm a rocker national, who had previously been sentenced to death by a don't have court. it will also release many of the russian soldiers fried were quick to contact family members to let them know there. okay. so i just know that everything is fine. what your tears. everything is okay. sure for that you know what i see when everything is fine? i just pretend to russia alive, while the british prime minister let's trust, has made

a statement about wednesdays, prisoners of war, exchange appraising ukraine's president. but at the same time taking a swipe at moscow, i thank glad amir the landscape for his efforts to secure the release of detainees and saudi arabia for their assistance. russia must end the ruthless exploitation of prisoners of war and civilian detainees for political ends. critics though the u. k, is not really in the best position to preach to others on the subject. the country has face a number of allegations of the inhumane treatment of p, o w, 's, and war crimes. this will go back to the days of u. k. soldiers during the war in iraq. one of the most high profile cases can concern that of buck i'm most so you may remember it. then an inquiry revealed to 26 year old hotel work. it was arrested by the u. k. military and taken to a u. k based in iraq back in 2003. it's where he died. 2 days later, a post mortem found $93.00 injuries, including fractured ribs, and

a broken nose. injuries was said to have contributed to his death. the probes that mussa had been beaten multiple times by a number of soldiers will take this further. now, a journalist actually to return to joining us live here on the international and always a great pleasure to see you after, despite the morbidity of our stories right now, what, what do you make of this trust statement on russia's treatment of p, o w? i mean, we've heard no complaints from the fuller prisoners at the moment. i understand they're all getting medical attention. is it always one side is good, the other side is bad option. it's astonishing, isn't did. they would be? it would be almost humorous if it wasn't so tragic. i know that they had me or the prosecutor, the international criminal court has just been speaking of the un general assembly in the same major talking points kind of way. but the idea of the british prime minister, british prime minister, talking about treatment of prisoners of war after. as you just mentioned bahama that case, the at the existence of guantanamo, you will never hear anything from the i. c, c, or washington or london,

or any major power about the fact they still have a detention torture camp in occupied cuba. and how, how does one have to go back for british treatment of prisoners of war, whether it be in south africa, can you, after the libby intervention in nature, why would the prisoners of war treated in the so called war on terra, let alone ireland. you think, let's trust, we think more about ireland and given the northern ireland protocol and the torture of the irish people in that war. instead of tweeting about the fact that the supremacy of international law as regards prisoners of war should be always upheld . and i should just say they did actual criminal court man, kareem gone, was talking to you. and just in the past hour about international law, it was linked to the same conservative party that lease trust current late when there should be some sort of praise for diplomacy here when it comes to both sides

in the war, doing exchange of these soldiers, these prisoners of war, but did you think, i'm sure that this swatca, ultimately, in a sense, lay down the foundation for future diplomacy? well, in western european capitals and in the corridors of the white house and congress, they're all saying this shows great weakness. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if some of the demonstrations in russia against the mobilization announced by president good and they were asking why on earth is president good in allowing an agreement, i should say broke good with saudi arabian mom had been solomon down the road from where i'm speaking to you. well, why the russians are lying, as you describe the neo nazi as of battalion people to be released, whether to ukraine or so, who stay in western european capitals room, the streets of their, given that their insignia and their heritage is very much that redolent for the

mass killing of jews in the 2nd world war. what, why did russia agree to this in the 1st place, or were the politicians in the prison to swap so crucial and important important, i mean, britain, this is being celebrated in those people very. i mean, some of them say that just naive. others say they may be intelligence oriented. that what we do, remember here is that there were plenty of operatives from western organizations trying to trigger russia to try and save the people who don't yet can their hands for a wider globalization war of the kind you were just talking to examiner about, well, action as they say, the numbers of 14000 people killed and i don't yet can look out for a public that ever since that of the, my dad's crew, about 8 years or so ago. actually, well, i've still got you here and it's so good to have with us on the program today. anthony blanket in america, expressing worries and concerns about putin's recent statements, that the mobilization that the mobilization is only 1 point,

one percent of the entirety of rushes, military armed forces. but put in did say we're getting to a point where he will have to defend to russia's territorial integrity. by all means possible. now we have the referendums happening over the next few days. where do we stand action in the current situation? the conflict in ukraine? what's next? well, why did president good and not do this? earlier? lincoln speaking in the past few minutes again, using all the same nato, talking points to the rebroadcast through all nato, mainstream media, military industrial complexes. it's called television and newspapers a band. of course, we got to keep reminding people around the world that in the european union, free breast is banned across their blinkin. raising all the talking points from the rammed corporations 2019 report that said, trigger russia to go into ukraine. we don't care about the ukranian casualties. that the dad that you speak of. however,

many thousands of died since russia moved to try and end this war. going on since 2014, and it's all there. and the 29 team ran report the rand report, which comes from the rand organization famously, which had the report, a leak to daniel ellsberg, really persecuted him about the allies of the vietnam war. the idea is to trigger russia, those in the drop policy circles are saying the mobilization is proof. it's working richard suffering. busy while some, even in russia thinking that meanwhile the mass of poor people in western europe and in the united states, a suffering so, so terribly. and it's gonna get worse this winter, as they sanction in effect themselves destroying their economies and destroying the 99 percent. while the one percent just look at the shares of raytheon look at the shares of boeing look at the shares of the big military companies as it's being

poured into ukraine at the expense of the ukranian population. and also all the u. s. senators on capitol hill with all that stocks in rate. theo and all these big old companies in the military industrial, complex journalist option returns the always great to see you. thanks so much. you're thank for joining us. there were naughty international. we are soon with more of your news. ah. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk with.