able to return to the bottom, that is why they're delaying the elections. the movie had the secret negotiations with them to prevent him not to go for the long march. it seemed that the form of payment is a settling, a problem with the, with the confused traditionally, i'm today, he offered apology, owed to a high court contempt for case against him. it seems, has been postponed now, and he's likely to be exonerated. his guess is likely to be dismissed in next week, because the course seems to be seems to be more inclined to accept his apology. often he had factored a female judge. and that's all for now. we hear you check out our t v dot com for all the latest breaking news, and at day we'll see right back here at the top of the hour. ah ah

ah, a motion with industry to restock and just look up some of natalie muscle around noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on at night to me as possible. mamma coquettish sit suddenly tamika, but i put his ashley of dc. wanted to work with nancy company for those wanted please, but of course jason admitted you but not put the key but she mom wants to know for phones or something like that. and then we'll go with that voice id. i see more info with great lisa,

have that ah, [000:00:00;00] with hello and welcome to crossed out. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the next stage of brushes, military operation in ukraine is about to commence. a partial mobilization has been ordered, and importantly, referendums are to be held in a number of ukraine's regions. their goal is to become part of russia. nato's war on russia, chest escalated, ah,

prov. stocking the evolving situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess. the boyish mileage in washington, he is a blogger, and columnist, in budapest we have towards hawaii. he is a podcast, or at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and in logan's way across to janice for calling. he is chief editor of m the media. all right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules, in fact means you can jump anytime you want. and i will appreciate, let me go to george 1st in budapest, george, what do you make of the partial mobilization? and importantly, these upcoming referendums, which is a game changer in my opinion and shows resolve on the part of moscow go head george went on, they are indeed game changes because the end result, i think, is clear. the vote will be in favor of joining the russian federation of the president who can make clear that russia will respect the wishes. and they will be members of the russian federation, in which case, any further attacks on the donuts and low guns perpetrated by ukraine with the

assistance on the united states and later will be attacked from the russian federation. and will obviously then be treated as acts of war. and so therefore, effectively, russia is making clear to nature that, you know, within a few days you will be in direct war with us. is this way you want to go. and naturally, nato is coming up with all sorts of ridiculous blustering comments. sham referendum, sham referendum. well, this is one of the issue that we realize is that nato itself had run its sham referendums. it loves referendums when they work in native favor when they don't work in native favor. then of course, then nato cries sham referendum. open to still, let's rule out referendums altogether. as was the case recently when sweden and finland, right, said that it was joined, be joining nato, and ne to him he is at no referenda. we don't need any thinking referendum. so yeah,

j and george, we had to point out to our viewers. that huh. during the military occupation, occupations of iraq and afghanistan, they had a elections during time of war with their perfectly fine. okay. according to nato, i janice, let me go to you and logan. you know, we very few people in the outside in the outside world get to hear people like you to on friday starts the voting process here. you folks have waited a long time for this. go ahead. thank you very much. no, it has been a long trip to these moments and as long as we wait, so suddenly it then game and the that, you know, it just underlines all geopolitical disco crania civil war here as being since 2014 and very much reminders also from the events from the 2013 and 14. i've been heard from moscow that, that this, this game asked to stop up and putting, putting a median. so russian people, tourists, and, and,

and russia will take no steps. and of course, it's for us, a great a favor. it's a new identity, each question of honor each question of the roots. and these referendum now gives to everybody to answer the real question. do you feel to be as a russian, do you accept us to be part of russian federation? and of course, the full, my georgia real world. yes. but the most important thing is that everybody asked these questions to answer. and each a be chilling produce, which is starting now here in doing was regions which have flight for this moment, for so long and giving such a big sacrifice to get recognition from russia in fool that you are with dust. you, you belong to mother, russia, as history has shown,

it's an act of self determination, which, you know, people don't like to use that term and lies. george pointed out, unless it's to their advantage, the boys are the they, they, i, you know, the, the way the way nato is reacted to the, all of this gorgeous, right. these are sham referendums and all of that. but, you know, once these a republics are accepted in the russian federation, as i explicitly expect, they will be a rush at the nato is going to have to come new. i'm a moment of truth. i mean, they are involved in this conflict and it will be in if they want to continue striking these territories, they will be striking russia. so they're upping the ante here. they're the ones that are escalating because i would like to go back to ancient history. there were the men scored and they were totally ignored. ok, this is payback time. no bullshit in washington. well, not to be the devil's advocate here because pretty much the entire western media is doing this bite. you know, the fact that crimea has been part of the russian federation since 2014 hasn't

exactly stopped the ukrainians from targeting it with western supply, drones and other other weapons. and this has happened repeatedly and you know, there's has been very little response from moscow. so, you know, no specific retaliation because of course that is the russian style. they don't bloss, but there's, there retaliation is always so measure the problem with that is the, you know, people who are trained to differently and think differently in the expect immediate retaliation. and when it doesn't happen, they get emboldened and that's exactly what's been going on in the west. i mean, i'm not so sure that these regions joining russia, you know, tomorrow, next week, whenever it's actually going to deter either key avoids western backers. i mean, we already have that deranged, british prime minister, quoting billions lines from v for vendetta and united nation ukraine prevails.

she's, she's a caricature of herself. and yet, you know, there she is. you know, we have the u. s. government with, you know, the president making statements and his staff, walking them back to the very next day. but he really meant is, you know, who is in charge here, who's making policy. well, it turns out it's probably that the state that's actually are being, he haven't planning all of his military operations. and you know, it's very difficult to figure out what with these people make me think. but if it's, if the, you know, if the media leaks by their pet reporters or anything to go by, they are probably going to do some sort of hair splitting word parsing. well, technically we don't recognize the, so they're not really russian territory. and that means that if we give you credit nuclear weapons, we're not really party to the war you see. and they're just so used to manipulating reality with their words. they can't even conclude well, i mean, you have versus which that's not the case. we're going to have to see, and i think we will see a difference here in georgia because it, i mean,

if russia accepts these regions is sovereign, russia, it's incumbent upon them to protect them. and i think that that's the kind of escalation that we're going to see. i mean, the commanding control centers in care of in western crate are still intact. ok. you know, this is a kind of escalation. i'm looking at george. yes, i think so. the new boise is the correct that with the sensible response that we might have expected from the west and saying, look, we really don't want to go down that path is probably not something that we should expect for. they will try to escalate. and i think i present wooton yes, that they made clear that, you know, if you stop attacking russian territory, this is a very big deal. and this is something that, you know, we would take very seriously. it's an existential matter for us. and, you know, we reached a point where it was inevitable that we would reach this point,

which is nato was going to have to ask us. so where does it wants to go? how far doesn't when he's been very queued sofa. oh, well, since a more when don't listen some more dangerous weapons, all along arranged miss on a list of drone some how it says and emma emma, all rational. he mas and everything else. oh, he's very cute, but we'll still say that it was nothing to do last we went on involved in this law . well now it's going to be forced to the situation. you take any further steps. you send me, you know, these high moms and these high miles are going to be used to kill her women and children in done it as it's happening all the time. now then yeah, you're going to be in will. and that will, you will be liable to retaliation from russia. so that's so i was actually laid it down on the line for them. yeah. ok. are you ready for this? yeah, i'm, i'm, i'm ready for a few satellites to be destroyed in space. if you get my drift, george ok. janice, let me ask you here because it's so important to get

a voice um from logan because you guys have been shut out from the western world ever since 2014. tell us the conditions under which the referendum will be held. i mean, is it, do people feel safe? i'm, there's always acts of sabotaging and, and terrorism. this is a determined population to make it to the ballot box. node. it differs very much from in, reached a place you leave hearing don't, but in other places, there us very serious threats. and people are very concerned that should we croup anywhere. and they are making all these mo, while mo, my won't things suit them so that they can prevent this huge wave of state terrorism. what has been in the previous weeks, what has happened here and, and certainly your officials are trying to do not to make easy to cause havoc or in the time of the referendum. oh,

it depends very much in which city you are leaving. how safe with these, the main thing, what i thing is, these are mobilization and the whole attitude change. what we see now hearing in enormous and, and we can see we can feel that the russia is bringing out the big guns. and any means that here will come command centers here will come full force of the war of units. the war of, of a separate operational forces is changing to do new scale. and, and when the, the big guns coming, it means that, that certain areas where the, the core force will come, it will be very safe to be inside and protected by all possible russian military systems. but, but though we will, they come fast enough to secure already these pros is now which is starting already to morrow. i don't believe but,

but i have seen already and discuss it about the know how, how this will be organized. and, and i see that all measures has been taking so that people can go white safely to go out and give their votes. and oh, so i'm, i'm quite optimistic hearing the ground, how the situ. well, i think it's very interesting how it will be played out in the dawn bass of the next few days here because it's going to set a precedent. and that's what i want to talk about. in the 2nd part of the program, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine. stay with architect ah ah,

ah. move when i was showing wrong, when i was just a shape out, the theme becomes the african and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves will depart. we choose to look so common ground

the welcome backs across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the evolving situation in ukraine. the okay, let's go back to watching in the boy say, let's talk a little bit about the partial mar mobilization here. 300000 reverse, reversed reservists are going to be called up. from what i understand from reports, it's going to take 2 or 3 months to integrate them into this special military operation. they're still calling it the special military operation and looking at the referendum, how much is this going to be a demonstration effect for other parts of ukraine? because if lugens don't yet, they get out and they become part of the russian federation. what kind of message that sent to other parts of ukraine that have not been all that happy under kids rule is, this is something that you're going to be watching. go ahead. well, it is,

and unfortunately the message comes too late for hot calls. but, you know, there's given the treatment at the hands of their liberators. the book is not closed on that yet. and certainly, neo nicole live in odessa right and know what they might expect in the near future if things continue to develop like this. i mean, this is, this is one of those things of once it happened, people were going, is it really going to change anything now? and, oh wow, it's long overdue. there really wasn't, hasn't been much reaction in between the, the partial realization i think is definitely going to help the manpower situation on the front line. and i think it's a recognition of the fact that that the nature of the battle has changed because the bulk of the old ukrainian army has been wiped out and been replaced with, you know, nato mercenaries and nato trained conscripts. and we're seeing that play out right

now, and unfortunately, this war has been for, for deadlier in 6 months than the war that i'm familiar with from, you know, 25 years ago in bosnia. so my military expertise is limited in that respect, but this is definitely playing for keeps very good point george playing for keep. this is what this message is all about. negative rate mobilization people. and there's been a lot of support for a lot of people been very frustrated the slow progress of the special military operation. now it can get more real here. and again, you know, as already the cities like odessa been mentioned here, it cuts both ways, doesn't it? mean, because if they have aspirations of having a referendum, well they're still under the kids rule and they can have a very terrorizing effect on the population. so that cuts both ways that these referenda yes it is. and that's really the problem that russia really faced

this 2014, which is the only way that you can have a referendum in ukraine is if there are security forces there to ensure that people will be able to go to the polls without getting murdered premier, did you remember from 1991 on really wanted out from ukraine, but were prevented from doing so because he is threatened crimea that you try to have any kind of a referendum and you will feel the full force of our forces. so that's why in 2014, it's actually in russia, have to use the forces that he had in the basketball to ensure that there actually was a proper referendum. great. so i think the same is going to apply now, but ultimately the issue is can ukraine continue to wage? this was the extent of the casualties that they have. stuff that,

i mean we have the estimate yesterday from the defense minister said a showing that they had 60000 ukranian service been killed. that is the norm as a number. and then if you, you know, after that the wounded, then you bring it pretty much think, you know, that there really isn't much of an armful left to continue this fight, rush of a somewhat much fewer casualties. and russia, obviously, is a much bigger population to draw on. so it's very hard to see how ukraine can continue the slides, unless, of course, they do, i guess, directly and all that really going to be the ultimate question that biden and trust . and so to show it's going to have to decide on the next few days from what i've seen in reports, the, the ukrainian military and their, their deadly militias. they're, they're, they're hitting civilian targets. the don baths, they because their military is spent, it was destroyed during the summer. and, you know,

all of us are in agreement here. russia is fighting natal. that's why. uh, president putin said they're fighting the collective strength of the west. and nato officially is incomplete denial. and i think all of us agree that we're going to find out pretty soon how much further nato wants to get involved in this. go ahead, janice in a, in a, in regards. yes. do. the nato instructors has been here for years already. manning the nationalist battalions and, and this is nothing new, but it just has been enforced that these scale. and though we are facing nato troops, that is, that is exactly what is happening. um, but i would like to raise up from dish the river into question that at least we are talking about river induced. we're talking about the, the principles of the you and charters. and we are talking about the real of the people and like, i just want to compare if that feeling was just taking to nature without any referendums. and the expansion of nato has been done without

a referendum whatsoever. and, and that's what i liked so much in this way of dealing international politics that referendums the wheel of the people has. it's like going crete. oh wait. so did, did it really matters for the russian world and that makes the whole difference. do somebody recognize to results or not? it should be for question. well, if you care of paris or london or rome recognizes the outcome of the record you care at all? i wouldn't. okay. i would guess. i think you care that moscow cares. okay. but you know, no bullshit, i see your, your earlier points here. if you're going to bring in, these are regions into russia, you have an iron clad obligation to protect them. okay. and i think that's what we're all worried about, because nato isn't going to give up easily, no way. okay,

because if they do it breaks, nato. nato will be a joke. ok. and that's what makes this situation very, very dangerous navigation in washington. well it's, it's an exit, i mean it's become an existential fight for both sides at this point, but that's, that's the course they've de collision course. they've been headed to for years. the, the issue i think is, as we've right been mentioned, i don't think very many people in russia or in the dumbass necessarily care what london or paris or washington think. and i think the thinking is the referendum isn't being held for the sake of nato or, or to us. it's being held for the sake of the rest of the world, which actually does care. and which does have standards and does have a sense of shame that has been thoroughly exterminated in the west at this point. because, you know, for these western governments, it doesn't matter what you do, it's only who you are. so they can't do anything wrong. and you know, russians and the people in don bass can do nothing, right?

and in fact, as i've mentioned a few days to co on air, you know, they treat people have dumbasses things. they're not even people anymore. you know, in their eyes. it's perfectly legitimate to, you know, set people in odessa protesting the newland regime on fire. but you know, god forbid that new coverage has police, you know, clubs that my dad protesters before the violent, the overthrew him. it's the double standard, and it's built into the whole i want to say system of values for lack of a better term. and which is a pure who, who morality in which the action itself doesn't matter. and this is the kind of thing that most of the rest of the world doesn't actually believe in and would like to see ended. and so i think from that perspective, having a referendum and, and having, you know, russia step in to protect these people is, is sending a message to them as far as the west. i don't think at this point, they're reachable by much in the way of messaging. that's such

a good point. i mean, it's talking to the deaf and dumb. unfortunately, here, george nato has a big decision to make if they want to continue on this path of escalation, because it's as burrell our favorite and his blog. he says it's going to be settled on the battlefield. i tend to agree with him. maybe the only thing however agree with him on and so, and we, we do know that the, the, with this bub writer mobilization here, we're going to see more weaponry. i tend to think them. busy of the kremlin is going to make us a pretty strong statement about how it feels about nato's continued meddling and ukraine. go ahead, george. i agree. and the problem with nato is that it's already shaw his bowl and he'd sent in your normal amount of hardware into ukraine. there's nothing in euro left over there. they can send even the united states army reserve

becoming depleted. so essentially, it'll be nato that will have to make a decision personal to move to a war economy to stop producing a lot more armaments. and are they going to provide the man how? because you brain doesn't have the man. so therefore, again, you know, it will be up in the nature to desire, particularly as the heading into a winter of discontent and without any energy. and it's quite likely that it does get involved, that, oh, and energy from russia will simply be cut off overnight. so no later than the site is ukraine. oh worth it now. you know, according to we're still on their lionel friends, you know that yes, of course it's all worth it. you know, does the european public, does the american public opinion paul say differently? george ok. but then again, this isn't a league war, it always is an elite war. ok, janice, i want to go to you and i want you to tell our viewers. we have one minute left. i

want you to tell us how the people in the dawn bass have suffered over the last 8 years. how many people died, how many casualties, whilst as the world to close its eyes to your suffering, give us a few numbers. tens of thousands of rigs directly, hundreds of thousands of rooms, massive destruct, no feelings, restart your huge sacrifice is in order to predict the russian world. the culture of the harry beach now is the time to get back home and, and join to russian federation. that is, what is the, the price? what has be paid from these days? yes. and now we also have to remember that what's going to be happening in the don bass will certainly will have a demonstration effect in other parts of ukraine. and maybe give help to self determination around the world. because there are plenty of people that want it. but western powers always deny them that as all the time we have gentlemen many, thanks. am i guessing, watching budapest and logan's, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the same to you next time.

remember crosstalk rules. ah ah, i'm willing to do dorian know graham t coyer soon enough idea she ship of dr. lee that she put a control in particular board. so you should she'll go pizza g at them awarded by likely system. rarely, plenty of them did not sing device such threats. anthony lucy, lean. yeah, well, we can do 2 are gonna chose actually, jim's out arkell room dish with buffalo, crazy dental. they're used to model date my subway, but just dory finished on a sal if she have a lease, get us,

but i will ship it with them. so to just figure out what i needed, if daughter to take him or what of them, i need a new transcript for that for and he is a visual one. they reached over or a teacher who couldn't sure not to let each group go to work. it doesn't feel good global. i'm saying yes, i see a book on the job. these are brought the enough leave you clear to take a picture of a while ago, but who prayed? you have to go so good on that. so if you look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people, a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, accept where such order to conflict with the 1st law. show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point obviously is to great truck rather than fit with the area

with artificial intelligence. real summoning with obama protective phone existence, with a brand new social coverage is to done by the public's and to you couldn't even really stop voting on whether it's enjoy that russian erase. and following years of you putting it back for a minute to blame the west, to deliberately escalating the conflict and ukraine. united states and this allies have been systematically covering up the crimes of the key of regime for 8 years. building their policy towards the lensky, based on a well known american principle. he is, of course, a son of