ah, hello, and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the next stage of russia's military operation in ukraine is about to commence. a partial mobilization has been ordered, and importantly, referendums are to be held in a number of ukraine's regions. their goal is to become part of russia. nato's war on russia, chest escalated with frost, sucking the evolving situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, the boyish of mileage in washington. he is a blogger, and columnist, in budapest we have towards hawaii. he is a podcast here at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals and in lieu gowns we across to janice for calling and he is chief editor of m the media. all right, gentlemen, crosstalk rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want, and i would appreciate, let me go to george 1st in budapest, george, what do you make of the partial mobilization?

and importantly, these upcoming referendums, which is a game changer in my opinion and shows resolve on the part of moscow go head george well on. they are indeed game changes because the end result, i think, is clear the boat will be in favor of joining the russian federation. president wooten made clear that russia will respect the wishes and they will be members of the russian federation, in which case, any further attacks on donuts and low guns perpetrated by ukraine with the assistance of the united states and later will be attacked on the russian federation. and will obviously then be treated as acts of war. and so therefore, effectively, russia is making clear to nature that, you know, within a few days you will be in direct war with us. is this a way you want to go? and naturally, nato is coming up with also of ridiculous blustering comments. sham referendum,

sham referendum. well, this is one of the issue that we realize is that nato itself had run its sham referendums. it lumps referendums when they work in native favor when they don't work in native favor. then of course, then nato cries, sham referendum or better still, let's rule out referendums altogether. as was the case recently when sweden and finland, right, said that it would join be joining nato. and nate to him. is that no referendum? we don't need any thinking referendum. so yeah, j and george, we had to point out to our viewers. that huh. during the military occupation, occupations of iraq and afghanistan, they had a elections during time of war. they're perfectly fine. okay, according to nato, i janice, let me go to you and logan. you know, we very few people in the outside in the outside world get to hear people like you to on friday starts the voting process here. you folks have waited a long time for this. go ahead. thank you very much. no, it has been

a long trip to these moments and as long as we wait, so suddenly it then game and the that, you know, it just underlines all geopolitical display, crania civil war here, has been since 2014 and very much reminders. also from the events in from the 2013 and 14. i've been heard from moscow that, that this, this game asked to stop up and putting, putting a median. so russian people to wrists and, and, and russia will take no steps. and of course, it's for us, a great a favor. it's a new identity, each question of honor each question of the roots. and these referendum now gives to everybody to answer the real question. do you feel to be as a russian,

do you accept us to be part of russian federation? and of course, the full, my georgia real world. yes. but the most important thing is that everybody asked these questions to answer. and each a be chilling produce, which is starting now. here in don't was regions which have flight for this moment for so long and giving such a big sacrifice to get recognition from russia in full that you are with dust. you, you belong to mother. russia, as history has shown n is, it's an act of self determination, which, you know, people don't like to use that term and lies. george pointed out, unless it's to their advantage, the boys are the they, they, i, you know, the, the way the way nato is, reacted to the, all of this gorgeous, right. these are sham referendums and all of that. but, you know, once these a mom, republics are accepted in the russian federation as i explicitly expect, they will be a rush at the nato is going to have to come new. i'm

a moment of truth. i mean, they are involved in this conflict and it will be in if they want to continue striking these territories, they will be striking russia. so they're upping the ante here. they're the ones that are escalating because i would like to go back to ancient history. there were the men scored and they were totally ignored. ok, this is payback time. negotiate in washington. well, not to be the devil's advocate here because pretty much the entire western media is doing this bite. you know, the fact that crimea has been part of the russian federation since 2014 hasn't exactly stopped the ukrainians from targeting it with western supply, drones and other other weapons. and this has happened repeatedly and you know, there's has been very little response from moscow. so, you know, no specific retaliation because of course that is the russian style. they don't bloss, but there's, there retaliation is always so measure the problem with that is the, you know,

people who are trained to differently and think differently in the expect immediate retaliation. and when it doesn't happen, they get emboldened and that's exactly what's been going on in the west. i mean, i'm not so sure that these regents joining russia, you know, tomorrow, next week, whenever it's actually going to deter either key words, western backers, i mean, we already have that deranged, british prime minister quoting billions lines from v for vendetta and united nation . you ukraine prevails. she's, she's a caricature of herself and yet, you know, there she is. you know, we have the u. s. government with, you know, the president making statements and his staff, walking them back to the very next day. but he really meant is, you know, who is in charge here, who's making policy? well, it turns out it's probably that the state that's actually are being, you haven't planning all of its military operations. and you know, it's very difficult to figure out what with these people make me think. but if it's,

if the, you know, if the media leaks by their pet reporters or anything to go by, they are probably going to do some sort of hair splitting word parsing. well, technically we don't recognize the, so they're not really russian territory. and that means that if we give you credit, nuclear weapons will not really party to the war you see. and they're just so used to manipulating reality with their words. they can even can. well, i mean, you have versus which that's not the case. we're going to have to see, and i think we will see a difference here in georgia because it, i mean, if russia accepts these regions is sovereign, russia, it's incumbent upon them to protect them. and i think that that's the kind of escalation that we're going to see. i mean, the commanding control centers in care of in western ukraine are still intact. ok. you know, this is a kind of escalation. i'm looking at george. yes, i think so. your voice is correct, that with the,

the sensible response that we might have expected from the west and saying, look, we really don't want to go down the pub, is probably not something that we should expect. they will try to escalate. and i think i present putin yesterday made clear that, you know, if you stop attacking russian territory, this is a very big deal. and this is something that, you know, we would take very seriously. it's an existential matter for us. and, you know, we, we reached a point where it was inevitable that we would reach this point, which is nato was going to have to ask us. so, where does it want to go? how far is the one who's been very queued sofa. oh, sense a more where don't listen, some more dangerous weapons all along a range misses? oh, sense of drone some how it says i am on m at all rational. he mas and everything else . oh, he's very cute, but we'll still say that, oh, it's nothing to do with us. we went on enrolled in this law. well,

now it's going to be forced to the situation. you take any further steps, use in these high mas and that these high miles are going to be used to kill a women and children in done it as it's happening all the time. now, then yeah, you're going to be in will. and that will, you will be liable to retaliation from russia. so bad. so boot has actually laid down on the light for him. yeah. okay. are you ready for this? yeah, i'm, i'm, i'm ready for a few satellites to be destroyed in space. if you get my drift, george ok. janice, let me ask you here because it's so important to get a voice some from logan's because you guys have been shut out from the western world. say ever since 2014. tell us the conditions under which the referendum will be held. i mean, is it, do people feel safe? i'm, there's always acts of sabotage and, and, and terrorism. but this is a determined population to make it to the ballot box. no, it differs very much from reached oh, glaze you leave sharing don't,

but in other places, there are very serious threats and people are very concerned that should recruit anywhere. they are making all these mobile. now, mobile, i won't thing system so that they can prevent this huge wave of state terrorism. what has been in the previous weeks, what has happened here and, and certainly your pre shows are trying to do not to make easy to cause havoc. oh, in the time of the referendum, oh, it depends very much in which seat you are leaving. how safe with these are the main thing, what i thing that is these mobilization and the whole attitude change. what we see now here in, in, in dorm bus and, and we can see, we can feel that the russia is bringing out the big guns. and any means that here will come command centers here will come full force of the war of units. the war of

off a separate o opperation or forces is changing to do new scale. and when the, the big guns coming, it means the that, oh, certain areas where the, the core force will come, it will be very safe to be inside and protected by all possible russian military systems. but but though we will day come fast enough to secure already these pros is now which is starting already to morrow. i don't believe but, but i have seen already and discuss it about the know how, how this will be organized and, and i see the or measures has been taking so that people can go white safely to, to go out and give their votes. and oh, so i'm, i'm quite optimistic here in the ground. how the situation. well, i think we're good. it's very interesting how it will be played out in the dawn bass of the next few days here because it's going to set a precedent. and that's what i want to talk about. and the 2nd part of the program,

gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine. stay with our new ah, ah.

the balkan conflicts been simmering for some time or so as not she was a subscript for work. we'll clean a quick but i don't know what could be done was done enough, albanians demanded the cause of a subs changed con, license plates. in other words, they recognized close of her either she thought the road to hell she forth worth of fell grade, refuse crossover is serbia. so discriminating against surf, there is a slap in the face of a former employer pulling it off for a quicker molded print from the surgeon procedure was fuel bill was set up the can go there to do this a day with a good in miss billy dawson. it alba, sima dom or nice. she'll be golden on me. on a visual, serbian president alexander gucci hasn't ruled out the possibility that the west is waiting for the right moment to strike the republic. gone with georgia back home, all the terrible food with

ah, welcome back to cross hock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter belcher. mind you were discussing the evolving situation in ukraine. ah, okay, let's go back to watching in the boise. let's talk a little bit about the, the, a partial more mobilization here. 300000 reverse reverse reservists are going to be called up from what i understand from reports. it's gonna take 2 or 3 months to integrate them into this special military operation. they're still calling at the special military operation. i'm in looking at the referenda. how much is this going to be a demonstration effect for other parts of ukraine? because if logan's done yet, they get out and they become part of the russian federation. what kind of message that send to other parts of ukraine that are have not been all that happy under

cabs rule is. this is something that you're going to be watching. go ahead. well, it is, and unfortunately the message comes too late for harcourt. but, you know, there's given the treatment at the hands of their liberators. the book has not closed on that yet. and certainly nicole live in odessa right and know what they might expect in the near future if things continue to develop like this. i mean, this is, this is one of those things of once it happened, people were going, is it really going to change anything now? and, oh, wow, it's long overdue. there really was, it hasn't been much reaction in between the, the partial realization i think is definitely going to help the manpower situation on the front line. and i think it's a recognition of the fact that that the nature of the battle has changed because the bulk of the old ukrainian army has been wiped out and been replaced with,

you know, natal mercenaries and nato trained conscripts. and we're seeing that play out right now, and unfortunately, this war has been for, for deadlier in 6 months than the war that i'm familiar with from 025 years ago in bosnia. so my military expertise is limited in that respect, but this is definitely playing for keeps very good point george playing for keep. this is what this message is all about. negative rate or mobilization people. and there's been a lot of support for a lot of people been very frustrated the slow progress of the special military operation. now, it can't get more real here. and again, you know, as already the cities like odessa been mentioned here, it cuts both ways, doesn't it? mean, because if they have aspirations of having a referendum, well they're still under the kids rule and they can have a very terrorizing effect on the population. so that cuts both ways that these

referenda yes it is. and that's really the problem that russia really phase 72014, which is the only way that you can have a referendum in ukraine is if there are security forces that to ensure that people will be able to go to the polls without getting the premier you remember from 1991 on really want the out from ukraine. what would prevent it from doing so? because he is threatened crimea that you try to have any kind of a referendum and you will feel the full force of our forces. so that's why in 2014, it's actually a rush. i have to use the forces that he had in the basketball to ensure that there actually was a proper referendum grand. yeah. so i think the same is going to apply now, but ultimately the issue is can ukraine continue to

wage? this was the extent of the casualties that they have. stuff that, i mean we have the estimate yesterday from the defense minister said a, showing that they had 60000 you, grania service been killed. that is the norm as a number. and then if you add to that the wounded, then you pretty much think, you know, that there really isn't much of an armed force left to continue this fight, rush of a somewhat much fewer casualties. and russia over there is a much bigger population to draw on. so it's very hard to see how ukraine can continue the slides, unless of course, they do, i guess directly and all that really going to be the ultimate question that biden and trusts. and sergeant shows are going to have to decide on the next few days from what i've seen in reports the, the ukrainian military and their,

their deadly militias. they're, they're, they're hitting civilian targets. the don bass, they because their military is spent, it was destroyed during the summer. and, you know, all of us are in agreement here. russia is fighting natal. that's why, uh, president putin said they're fighting the collective strength of the west. and nato officially is incomplete denial. and i think all of us agree that we're, we're going to find out pretty soon how much further nato wants to get involved in this. go ahead, janice in a, in a, in regards. yes. do. the nato instructors has been here for years already. manning, the nationalist bought volumes and, and this is nothing new, but it just has been enforced that these scale. and though we are facing nato troops, that is, that is exactly what is happening. um, but i would like to raise up from dish of the river into question that at least we are talking about river induced. we're talking about the, the principles of the you and charters. and we are talking about the real of the people and like,

i just want to compare if that feeling was just taking to nature without any referendums. and, and the expansion of nato has been done without a referendum whatsoever. and, and, and that's what i liked. so much in these way of dealing international politics that referendums, the wheel of the people has its own, like go greet. oh wait. so did, did it really matters for the russian world and that makes the whole difference. do somebody recognize to results or not? it's a different question. well, name, the dentist, they think you care of paris or london or rome, recognizes the outcome of the record. you carry it all. i wouldn't. okay. i would can i think you care that moscow cares. okay. but you know, no bullshit. i see your, your earlier points here, if you're going to bring in these mom regions into russia, you have an iron clad obligation to protect them. okay. and i think that's what

we're all worried about, because nato isn't going to give up easily, no way. okay? because if they do it breaks, nato, nato will be a joke. okay. and that's what makes a situation very, very dangerous innovation in washington. well, it's, it's an exit. i mean, it's becoming an existential fight for both sides at this point. but that's, that's the course they've de collision course. they've been headed to for years. the, the issue i think is, as we've rightfully mentioned, i don't think very many people in russia or in the dumbass necessarily care what london or paris or washington think. and i think the thinking is the referendum isn't being held for the sake of nato or, or to us. it's being held for the sake of the rest of the world, which actually does care. and which does have standards and does have a sense of shame that has been thoroughly exterminated in the west of this point. because, you know, for these western government, it doesn't matter what you do,

it's only who you are. so they can't do anything wrong. and, you know, russians and the people in dumbass can do nothing, right? and in fact, as i've mentioned a few days to co on air, they treat people of dumbasses things. they're not even people anymore. you know, in their eyes. it's perfectly legitimate to, you know, set people in odessa protesting the newland regime on fire. but you know, god forbid that new coverage has police clubs. the my don protesters before the violence, the overthrew him. it's the double standard, and it's built into the whole i want to say system of values for lack of a better term. and which is a pure who, who morality in which the action itself doesn't matter. and this is the kind of thing that most of the rest of the world doesn't to actually believe in and would like to see ended. and so i think from that perspective, having a referendum and, and having, you know, russia step in to protect these people is, is sending

a message to them as far as the west. i don't think at this point, they're reachable by much in the way of messaging. that's such a good point. i mean, it's talking to the deaf and dumb. unfortunately, a, george nato has a big decision to make if they want to continue on this path of escalation, because it's, as burrell are favorites in his blog. he says it's going to be settled on the battlefield. i tend to agree with him. maybe the only thing however agree with him on and so, and we, we do know that the, with this bub greater mobilization here, we're going to see more weaponry. i tend to think that the. busy kremlin is going to make a pretty strong statement about how it feels about nato's continued meddling in ukraine. go ahead, george. i, i agree. and the problem with nato is that it's already a shock. is bolt it needs it sent enormous amounts of hardware into the

ukraine. there's nothing in euro left over that they can send even the united states army reserve becoming depleted. so essentially, it'll be nato that will have to make a decision personal to move to a war economy to stop producing a lot more arguments. and are they going to provide the manpower, because your brain doesn't have the manpower? so therefore, again, you know, it will be up to the nature to desire, particularly as the heading into a winter of discontent. and without any energy. and it's quite likely that if needed, those getting all that, oh, and energy from russia will simply be cut off overnight. so no later than the site is ukraine. oh, worth it now. you know, according to we're still under lionel friends, you know that yes, of course it all was it, you know, does the european public does the american public? i think that it is a companion paul say differently, george. ok. but then again,

this isn't a league war, it always isn't it? lead floor. okay. dennis, i want to go to you and i want you to tell our viewers. we have one minute left. i want you to tell us how the people in the da boss have suffered over the last 8 years. how many people died, how many casualties, whilst as the world to close its eyes to your suffering, give us a few numbers. tens of thousands of reduced directly, hundreds of thousands of rooms, massive destruct. no fiends restructure. huge sacrifices in order to predict the russian world, the culture of the heritage. now it's the time to get back home and, and join to russian federation. that is, what is the price? what has been paid from these days? yes. and now we also have to remember that what's going to be happening in the don bass will certainly will have a demonstration effect in other parts of ukraine. and maybe give help to self determination around the world because there are plenty of people that want it,

but western powers always deny them that all the time we have gentlemen many thanks . so my guess and watch it in budapest and logan's, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember crosstalk rules with the was the jesus you did? yes. we see just open the window of william mitchell with the door. a cheat is more, so must all must be over. we just don't wanna go on that much enough. please come to a stop on a thumb candle vehicle. i just wanted to follow up to the shelf hold would lose

her. what you groove decides in lash. there was the only city so still with one you to you, but i don't, they really will tell you just a symbol and you talk a little bit in that was also by mr. we did, and i should you still, you still hold with them out of them will almost lost. i was of us, not us must all. when you get on was impossible. told yes my through on the when you got those problems, will it a but i can get a hold of you either some of ship issues. just walk in. uh huh. moon mission. i am will not on the meet on. so the q b emilio on to mont and put on the not all of the, all to get an idea of what actually a canadian, if they have not been with them. the dumps obviously sticky, but muslims of monkey mean spoke to them ear process. but i feel always shock is more to me, let me know when you look on the blood up like a new book like ah,

i still know i still have been in my bedroom machining of bundling altura 1st muster. but i still calmly. oh, but as in your lease that was just our custody nation. i depended guy. i moved austin because i live with been you that way. you know, i should now still owe us of his i saw that what he will because also what is new should be made chicken for looks like it's dental chimney, which had me replaced by middle of the other, which i think you must you to have to work as well. do that with the dish yet we got it. dish the dish dish out the what of toilet you. little jer, as you'll like. additionally, why not on the thread? you're not sure they will say is because they with molest, says when you live grandma miss cautious is a white girl. occlusal guards the finishes you should you said he was gone of the way it's up. but if you will, and yet, oh, but in theory and feature to one now to me, can us now to music what you will get a you guy will show this jones will go over all model book lenient. we faced

with the look when you are naturally scott, with a little causal. let us alone must surely penicillin an incomplete innovation. you do now show them se billing me to lucy to let you. but be long on that sheet. it is leak when ready, but in a slip of the month upon which you to the mock about with the will. anyways, you look at what all the essentials look like. must believe. i mean, you came in the room when the she doesn't. bell was la mirrors, italy called daughter of angela, wished emotional promotional, but almost the total sold out on political when you model. with them all dialed up on mr. on there was any over the deal in watson at company with conflict. the butch moore released was painted by medium to go along with

a, with a simple this is our future. and the most important thing is the future of my grand daughter's though she had paul of the heart. my mother is russian. my father is rushing. well, i am russian to say rings you out by fill coverage. does she don't bus valez? and the claim read is begin voting on whether i'm doing the russian federation process form as it takes aim at the west claim is deliberately escalating the conflict in ukraine. the united states and its allies have been systematically covering up the crimes of the key.