a ukraine with the assistance of the united states and later will be attacked from the russian federation and will obviously then be treated as acts of war. and so therefore, effectively, russia is making clear to nature that, you know, within a few days you will be in direct war with us. is this way you want to go? and naturally, nato is coming up with all sorts of ridiculous blustering comments. sham referendum, sham referendum. well, this is one of the issue that we realize is that nato itself had run its sham referendums. it loves referendums when they work in native favor when they don't work in latest favors. then of course then maple cries sham referendum. open to still. let's rule out referendums altogether. as was the case recently when sweden and finland, right, said that it was joined, be joining nato and need to meet you said no referendum. we don't need any thinking referendum. so yeah, j and george, we had to point out to our viewers that, um,

during the military occupation, occupations of iraq and afghanistan, they had a elections during time of war. they're perfectly fine. okay, according to nato, i janice, let me go to you and look on, you know, we very few people in the out in the outside world get to hear people like you to on friday starts the voting process here. you folks have waited a long time for this. go ahead. thank you very much. no. it has been a long trip to these moments and as long as we wait, so suddenly it then game and the that, you know, it just underlines all geopolitical disco crania, civil war here has been since 2014 and very much a reminder so, so from the events from the 2013 and 14. i've been heard from moscow that, that this, this game asked to stop up and putting, putting a median. so russian people, tourists, and, and,

and russia will take no steps. and of course, it's for us, a great a favor. it's a new identity, each question of honor each question of the roots. and these referendum now gives to everybody to answer the real question. do you feel to be us a russian? do you accept us to be part of russian federation? and of course the full, my georgia real world years at. but the most important thing is that everybody asked these questions to answer, and each a b keeling produce which is starting now. here in don't was regions which a flight for this moment, for so long and giving such a big sacrifice to get recognition from russia in full that you are with dust, you, you belong to. mother, russia, as history, has shown n is it's an act of self determination, which, you know,

people don't like to use that term and lies. george pointed out, unless it's to their advantage, the boys are the they, they, i, you know, the, the way the way nato is, reacted to the, all of this. george's right. these are sham referendums and all of that. but, you know, once these a mom, republics are accepted in the russian federation as i explicitly expect, they will be a rush and the nato is going to have to come new. i'm a moment of truth. i mean, they are involved in this conflict and it will be in if they want to continue striking these territories, they will be striking russia. so they're upping the ante here. they're the ones that are escalating because i would like to go back to ancient history. there were the men scored and they were totally ignored. ok, this is payback time. negotiate in washington. well, not to be the devil's advocate here because pretty much the entire western media is doing this bite. you know, the fact that crimea has been part of the russian federation since 2014 hasn't exactly stopped the ukrainians from targeting it with western supply,

drones and other other weapons. and this has happened repeatedly and you know, there's has been very little response from moscow. so, you know, no specific retaliation because of course that is the russian style. they don't bloss, but there's, there retaliation is always so measure the problem with that is the, you know, people who are trained to differently and think differently in the expect immediate retaliation. and when it doesn't happen, they get emboldened and that's exactly what's been going on in the west. i mean, i'm not so sure that these regions joining russia, you know, tomorrow, next week, whenever it's actually going to deter either key avoids western backers. i mean, we already have that deranged, british prime minister, quoting billions lines from v for vendetta and united nation. you, ukraine, prevails. she's, she's a caricature of herself. and yet, you know,

there she is. you know, we have the u. s. government with, you know, the president making statements and his staff, walking them back to the very next day when he really meant is, you know, who is in charge here, who's making policy? well, it turns out it's probably that the state that's actually are being, you haven't planning all of its military operations. and you know, it's very difficult to figure out what would these people make me think. but if it's, if the, you know, if the media leaks by their pet reporters or anything to go by, they are probably going to do some sort of hair splitting word parsing. well, technically we don't recognize the, so they're not really russian territory. and that means that if we give you credit nuclear weapons, you're not really party to the war you see, and they're just so used to manipulating reality with their words. they can't even conclude well, i mean, universe in which that's not the case. we're going to have to see, and i think we will see a difference here in georgia because it, i mean, if russia accepts these regions, sovereign russia,

it's incumbent upon them to protect them. and i think that that's the kind of escalation that we're going to see. i mean, the commanding control centers in care of and in western ukraine are still intact. ok. you know, this is a kind of escalation. i'm looking at george. yes, i think so. but you boise is a correct that with the sensible response that we might have expected from the west and saying, look, we really don't want to go down that path is probably not something that we should expect for. they will try to escalate. and i think i present wooton, yes, they made clear that, you know, if you stop attacking russian territory, this is a very big deal. and this is something that, you know, we would take very seriously. it's an existential matter for us. and, you know, we reached a point where it was inevitable that we would reach this point,

which is nato was going to have to ask us. so, where does it want to go? how partisan when he's been very queued sofa. oh, since a more when don't listen some more dangerous weapons all along a range. massage. oh, sense of drone some how it says and emma emma, all rational. he mas and everything else. oh, and he's very cute, but we'll still say there was nothing to do last we went on involved in this law. well, now it's going to be forced to the situation. you take any further steps. you send me, you know, these high mas and then these, i'm also going to be used to kill her women and children in done it as it's happening all the time. now, then yeah, you're going to be in will. and that will, you will be liable to retaliation from russia so that, so i was actually laid it down on the line for them. yeah. ok. are you ready for this? yeah, i'm, i'm, i'm ready for a few satellites to be destroyed in space. if you get my drift, george ok. janice, let me ask you here because it's so important to get

a voice um from logan because you guys have been shut out from the western world ever since 2014. tell us the conditions under which the referendum will be held. i mean, is it, do people feel safe? i'm, there's always acts of sabotage and, and, and terrorism. this is a determined population to make it to the ballot box. no, it differs very much from in, reached a place you leave hearing don't, but in other places, there us very serious threats and people are very concerned that should we croup anywhere. and they are making all these mo, bile, mo bile holding suit them so that they can prevent this huge wave of state terrorism. what has been in the previous weeks, what has happened here and, and certainly your officials are trying to do not to make easy to cause havoc or in the time of the referendum. oh, it depends very much in which city you are leaving. how safe with these,

the main thing, what i thing that is the mobilization and the whole attitude change. what we see now here in, in, in dorm bus and, and we can see, we can feel that the russia is bringing out the big guns. and any means that here will come command centers here will come full force of the, the war of units. the war of, of a separate operation or forces is changing to do new scale. and when the, the big guns coming, it means that, that certain areas where the, the core force will come, it will be very safe to be inside and protected by all possible russian military systems. but, but though we will, they come fast enough to secure already these pros is now which is starting already to morrow. i don't believe but, but i have seen already and discuss it about the know how,

how this will be organized and, and i see that all measures has been taking so that people can go white safely to go out and give their votes. and oh, so i'm, i'm quite optimistic here in the ground. how the situ? well, i think it's very interesting how it will be played out in the dawn bass of the next few days here because it's good to set a precedent. and that's what i want to talk about in the 2nd part of the program, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine. stay with architect ah ah, ah. fuse

the balkan conflicts been simmering for some time or so as not. she was a subscript for whirlpool crane acquired pendleton. all all could be done was running up, albanians demanded the cause of a subs changed con, license plates. in other words, they recognized close of her either she thought the whole scene both worth of fell grade refused. christopher is serbia so discriminating against surf. there is a slap in the face, a foreclosure report from the judge of whose figure was fuel bill.

what's that? i think you know there to do with affidavit, the good in miss bill dawson, it albano sema, dom or nice. she'll be go to know me. on a visual, serbian president alexander gucci hasn't ruled out the possibility that the west is waiting for the right moment to strike the republic. gone with georgia tech i do have her call. all dr with ah, welcome back to cross hock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter belcher. mind you were discussing the evolving situation in ukraine. ah, okay, let's go back to watching in the boise. let's talk a little bit about the, the a partial more mobilization here. 300000 reverse reverse. reservists are going to be called up from what i understand from reports,

it's gonna take 2 or 3 months to integrate them into this special military operation. they're still calling at the special military operation in looking at the referenda. how much is this going to be a demonstration effect for other parts of ukraine? because if logan's done yet, they get out and they become part of the russian federation. what kind of message that send to other parts of ukraine that are have not been all that happy under cabs rule is. this is something that you're going to be watching. go ahead. well, it is, and unfortunately the message comes too late for hot calls. but, you know, there's given the treatment at the hands of their liberators. the book has not closed on that yet. and certainly, neo nicole live in odessa right and know what they might expect in the near future if things continue to develop like this. i mean, this is, this is one of those things of once it happened, people were going, is it really going to change anything now?

and, oh wow, it's long overdue. there really wasn't, hasn't been much reaction in between the, the partial realization i think is definitely going to help the manpower situation on the front line. and i think it's a recognition of the fact that that the nature of the battle has changed because the bulk of the old ukrainian army has been wiped out and been replaced with, you know, natal mercenaries and nato trained conscripts. and we're seeing that play out right now, and unfortunately, this war has been for, for deadlier in 6 months than the war that i'm familiar with from, you know, 25 years ago in bosnia. so my military expertise is limited in that respect, but this is definitely playing for keeps very good point george playing for keep. this is what this message is all about. negative rate or mobilization people. and

there's been a lot of support for a lot of people been very frustrated the slow progress of the special military operation. now it can't get more real here. and again, you know, as already the cities like death has been mentioned here. it cuts both ways, doesn't it mean because if they have aspirations of having a referendum while they're still under the kids rule and they can have a very terrorizing effect on the population. so that cuts both ways that these referenda yes it is. and that's really the problem that russia really faced ever since 2014, which is the only way that you can have a referendum in ukraine is if there are security forces that to ensure that people will be able to go to the polls or without getting murdered crimea, if you remember rios from 1901 on and really wanted out from ukraine, but would prevent it from doing so because he is threatened crimea that you try to

have any kind of a referendum and you will feel the full force of our armed forces, so that's why in 2014 such a rush, you have to use the forces that he had in the bicycle to ensure that there actually was a proper referendum grand. so i think the same is going to apply it now, but the ultimately, the issue is can ukraine continue to wage this war, leak sand of the casualties that they have suffered? i mean, we have the estimate yesterday from the defense ministers like a show, a go that they had 60000 ukranian service men killed, that is of no missile number. and then if you know, after that the wounded, then you rooted pretty much think, you know, that there really isn't much of an armed force left to continue this fight, rush of someone, much fewer casualties. and russia obviously is a much bigger population to draw on. so it's very hard to see how ukraine

can continue this fight unless of course, nato gets directly wrong. and that is really going to be the ultimate question, the biden and trust. and sergeant schultz are going to have to decide on the next few days. notice it from what i've seen in reports from the, the ukrainian military and they're, they're deadly malicious. they're, they're, they're hitting civilian targets. the don baths, they, because their military has spent, it was destroyed during the summer. and, you know, all of us are in agreement here. russia is fighting natal. that's why, uh, president putin said they're fighting the collective strength of the west. and nato officially is incomplete denial. and i think all of us agree that we're going to find out pretty soon how much further nature wants to get involved in this. go ahead, janice in a, in a and we'll go yes. do. the nato instructors has been here for years already. manning the nationalist battalions and, and this is nothing new,

but it just has been enforced that these scale. and though we are facing nato troops, that is, that is exactly what is happening. um, but i would like the res, i'm from dish the so river and, and question that at least we're talking above river induced. we're talking about the, the principles of the you and charters, and we are talking about the real of the people. and like, i just want to compare if that fealand was just taking to nature without any referendums. and the expansion of nato has been done without a referendum whatsoever. and, and that's what i liked so much in this way of dealing international politics that referendums, the wheel of the people has its own like concrete. oh wait. so did, did it really matters for the russian world and, and that makes the whole difference. do somebody recognize to results or not? it's a different question. well, name, the dentist,

they think you care of paris or london or rome, recognizes the outcome of the record. you care at all? i wouldn't. okay. i would guess. i think you care that moscow cares. okay. but you know, no bullshit. i see your, your earlier points here. if you're going to bring in these are um regions into russia. you have an iron clad obligation to protect them. okay, and i think that's what we're all worried about, because nato isn't going to give up easily, no way. okay, because if they do it breaks, nato. nato will be a joke. ok, and that's what makes this situation very, very dangerous navigation in washington. well, it's an exit, i mean it's become an existential fight for both sides at this point, but that's, that's the course the, the collision course they've been headed to for years. the issue i think is, as we've right been mentioned, i don't think very many people in russia or in the dumbass necessarily care what

london or paris or washington think. and i think the thinking is the referendum isn't being held for the sake of nato or, or to us. it's being held for the sake of the rest of the world, which actually does care. and which does have standards and does have a sense of shame that has been thoroughly exterminated in the west at this point. because, you know, for these western governments, it doesn't matter what you do, it's only who you are. so they can't do anything wrong. and you know, russians and the people in don bass can do nothing, right? and in fact, as i've mentioned a few days to co on air, you know, they treat people have dumbasses things. they're not even people anymore. you know, in their eyes. it's perfectly legitimate to, you know, set people in odessa protesting the newland regime on fire. but you know, god forbid that you, new coverage has police clubs that my dad protesters before the violence, the overthrew him. it's the double standard, and it's built into the whole i want to say system of values for lack of

a better term. and which is a pure who, who morality in which the action itself doesn't matter. and this is the kind of thing that most of the rest of the world doesn't to actually believe in and would like to see ended. and so i think from that perspective, having a referendum in and having, you know, russia stepping to protect these people is, is sending a message to them as far as the west. i don't think at this point, they're reachable by much in the way of messaging. that's such a good point. i mean, it's talking to the deaf and dumb. unfortunately, here, george nato has a big decision to make if they want to continued on this path of escalation, because it is as brow our favorite in his blog. he says it's going to be settled on the battlefield. i tend to agree with him. maybe the only thing however agree with him on. and so, and we, we do know that the, with this about writer mobilization here,

we're going to see more weaponry. i tend to think that the kremlin is going to make a pretty strong statement about how it feels about nato's continued meddling and ukraine. go ahead, george. i agree, and the problem with nato is that it's already shaw his bowl and he's, it's sent enormous amounts of hardware into ukraine. there's nothing in euro left over there. they can send even the united states army reserve becoming depleted. so essentially, it'll be nato that will have to make a decision personal to move to a war economy to stop producing a lot more ominous. and are they going to provide the manpower because you brain doesn't have the mentor? so therefore, again, you know, it will be up to the nature to desire, but typically as the heading into a winter of discontent and without any energy. and it's quite likely that if they don't get involved that, oh,

and energy from russia will simply because overnight. so no later than the site is ukraine. oh worth it now. you know, according to we're still on their lionel friends, you know that yes, of course it's all worth it. you know, does the european public, does the american public opinion paul say differently? george ok. but then again, this isn't a league war, it always isn't a lead for. ok. janice, i want to go to you and i want you to tell our viewers. we have one minute left. i want you to tell us how the people and the dog boss have suffered over the last 8 years. how many people died, how many casualties, wilds the world, close its eyes to your suffering. give us a few numbers. tens of thousands of weeks, directly hundreds of thousands of wounds, a massive destruction of infrastructure, huge sacrifices in order to predict the russian world. the culture of the harry

beach now is the time to get back home and, and join to russian federation. that is, what is the, the price, what has be paid from these days? yes, and, and now we also have to remember that what's going to be happening in the don bass will certainly will have a demonstration effect in other parts of ukraine. and maybe give help to self determination around the world because there are plenty of people that want it, but western powers always deny them that all the time we have gentlemen many, thanks. am i guessing, watching budapest, and in logan's, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are tct you next time. remember crosstalk rules. ah ah, i bought them with,

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a with this is our future, and the most important thing is the future of my grand daughter's. though she a call of the heart. my mother is russian. my father is russia. well, i am rushing to here. we're not international. we bring you out special coverage as to don bath republics and to ukrainian regions of voting on whether or not to join that up. the russian federation the you chief threatened to take action against road. this is a can be the election that this week and results in the government taking the country in a, quote, difficult direction. also in the program, tensions rush it up between canada and india off the auto. refute.