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ah, with hello and welcome to cross out, were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the next stage of brushes, military operation and ukraine, is about to commence. a partial mobilization has been ordered, and importantly, referendums are to be held in a number of ukraine's regions. their goal was to become part of russia. nato's war on russia, chest escalated with frost, talking, the evolving situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, the boyish mileage in washington. he is a blogger and calmness in budapest. we have george w ali. he is a podcast at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals and in lieu guns we cross to janice with calden, he is chief editor of m the media. all right,

gentlemen, cross top roles and a fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i would appreciate, let me go to george 1st in budapest, george, what do you make of the partial mobilization? and importantly, these upcoming referendums, which is a game changer in my opinion and shows resolve on the part of moscow go head george well on. they are indeed game changes because the end result, i think, is clear. the vote will be in favor of joining the russian federation of the president who can make clear that russia will respect that wishes. and they will be members of the russian federation, in which case, any further attacks on donuts and low guns, but betrayed it by ukraine. with the assistance of the united states and nato will be attacks on the russian federation. i will oversee them be treated as acts of war . and so therefore, effectively rush is making clear to nature that, you know,

within a few days you will be in direct war with us. is this the way you want to go? and naturally nature is coming up with all sorts of ridiculous last 3 comments. sham referendum, sham referendum. well, this is one of the issue that we realize is that nato itself had run its sham referendums and loves referendums. when they work in natives favor when they don't work in native favor, then of course and make them cry sham referendum. open to still. let's rule out referendums altogether. as was the case recently when sweden of finland, rice said that it would join be joining nato. and nate to him is that no referendum we don't need? and he's thinking referendum, so yeah, j and george, we had to point out to our viewers that a, during the military occupation, occupations of iraq and afghanistan, they had a elections during time of war with their perfectly fine. ok,

according to nato. i janice, let me go to you and logan. you know, we very few people in the out in the outside world get to hear people like you to on friday starts the voting process here. you folks have waited a long time for this. go ahead. thank you very much. no. it has been a long trip to these moments and as long as we wait, so suddenly it then came and the that you know, it just on the lines. all geopolitical this mccraney a civil war. ready here has been since 2014 and very much a reminder so, so from the events from the 2013 and 14. i've been heard from moscow that, that this, this game asked to stop and putting, putting a 1000000. so russian people to research and, and, and russia will take no steps. and of course it's for us a great a favor. it's a new identity,

each question of honor each question of the roots. and these referendum now gives to everybody to answer the real question. do you feel to be us a russian, do you accept us to be part of russian federation? and of course, the full, my georgia real world. yes. but the most important thing is that everybody ask these questions to answer. and each a be chilling produce, which is starting now here in doing was regions which a flight for this moment, for so long and giving such a big sacrifice to get recognition from russia in full that you are with dust. you, you belong to mother. russia, as history has shown n is, it's an act of self determination, which, you know, people don't like to use that term and lies. george pointed out, unless it's to their advantage, the boy said they, they, i, you know, the, the way the way nato is, reacted to the, all of this. george's right. these are sham referendums and all of that. but,

you know, once these a mom, republics are accepted in the russian federation as i explicitly expect, they will be a rush. the nato is going to have to come new. i'm a moment of truth. i mean, they are involved in conflict and it will be and if they want to continue striking these territories, they will be striking russia. so they're being the, the, the anti here. they're the ones that are escalating because i would like to go back to ancient history. there were the men scored and they were totally ignored. ok, this is payback time. negotiate in washington. well, not to be the devil's advocate here because pretty much the entire western media is doing this bite. you know, the fact that crimea has been part of the russian federation since 2014 hasn't exactly stopped the ukrainians from targeting it with western supply, drones and other other weapons. and this has happened repeatedly and you know, there's has been very little response from moscow. so you know,

no specific retaliation because of course that is the russian style. they don't bloss but there's bill there. retaliation is always so measure the problem with that is the to, you know, people who are trained to differently and think differently and they expect immediate retaliation. and when it doesn't happen, they get emboldened and that's exactly what's been going on in the west. i mean, i'm not so sure that these regions joining russia, you know, tomorrow, next week, whenever it's actually going to deter either key avoids western backers. i mean, we already have that deranged, british prime minister quoting billions lines from v for vendetta and united nation . you ukraine prevails. she's, she's a caricature of herself and yet, you know, there she is. you know, we have the u. s. government with, you know, the president making statements and his staff, walking them back to the very next day when he really meant is, you know,

who is in charge here, who's making policy? well, it turns out it's probably that the state that's actually are being haven't planning all of its military operations. and you know, it's very difficult to figure out what with these people make may think. but if it's, if the, you know, if the media leaks by their pet reporters or anything to go by, they are probably going to do some sort of hair splitting word parsing. well, technically we don't recognize the, so they're not really russian territory. and that means that if we give you credit nuclear weapons, you're not really party to the war you see. and they're just so used to manipulating reality with their words. they can't even conclude well, i mean, you have versus which that's not the case. we're going to have to see, and i think we will see a difference here in georgia because it, i mean, if russia accepts these regions is sovereign, russia, it's incumbent upon them to protect them. and i think that that's the kind of escalation that we're going to see. i mean, the commanding control centers in care of in western ukraine are still intact. ok.

you know, this is a kind of escalation. i'm looking at george. yes, i think so. but you boise, is that correct? that with the sensible response that we might have expected from the west and saying look, we really don't want to go down that path is probably not something that we should expect for. they will try to escalate. and i think i present putin yesterday made clear that, you know, if you stop attacking russian territory, this is a very big deal. and this is something that, you know, we would take very seriously. it's an existential matter for us. and, you know, we reached a point where it was inevitable that we would reach this point, which is nato was going to have to ask us. so, where does it want to go? how caught us when he's been very queued sofa. oh, sense a more where don't listen, some more dangerous weapons all along a range misses. oh,

says of drone some how it says and, and mother in law rational, he mas and everything else. oh, and he's very cute, but we'll still say that it was nothing to do with us. we went on involved in this law. well, now it's going to be forced to the situation. you take any further steps. you send me, you know, these high mas and then these, i'm also going to be used to kill for women and children in done it as it's happening all the time. now, then yeah, you're going to be in will. and that will, you will be liable to retaliation from russia so that, so i was actually laid it down on the line for him. yeah. ok. are you ready for this? yeah, i'm, i'm, i'm ready for a few satellites to be destroyed in space. if you get my drift, george ok. janice, let me ask you here because it's so important to get a voice um from logan because you guys have been shut out from the western world ever since 2014. tell us the conditions under which the referendum will be held. i mean, is it, do people feel safe?

i'm there's always acts of sabotaging and, and terrorism. this is a determined population to make it to the ballot box. no, it differs very much from in reached a place you leave hearing don't, but in other places, there us very serious threats and people are very concerned that should recruit anywhere and they are making all these more while mobile. i won't thing suit them so that they can prevent this huge wave of state terrorism. what has been in the previous weeks, what has happened here and, and certainly your pre shows are trying to do not to make easy to cause havoc or in the time of the referendum. oh, it depends very much in which city you are leaving. how safe it, these are the main thing, what i thing that is the mobilization and the whole attitude change. what we see now here in, in, in dorm bus and, and we can see,

we can feel that the russia is bringing out the big guns. and any means that here will come command centers here will come full force of the, the war of units. the war of, of a separate over ational forces is changing to do new scale. and when the, the big guns come in, it means that, that certain areas where the, the core force will come, it will be very safe to be inside and protected by all possible a rush and military systems. but, but though we will, they come fast enough to secure already these pros is now which is starting already to morrow. i don't believe but, but i have seen already and discuss it about the know how, how this will be organized. and i see that all measures has been taking so that people can go white safely to go out and give their votes. and oh, so i'm,

i'm quite optimistic here in the ground. how the situ? well, i think it's very interesting how it will be played out in the dawn bass of the next few days here because it's good to set a precedent. and that's what i want to talk about in the 2nd part of the program, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine. stay with me. ah ah, ah.

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70 percent of you been 80 percent of so be of the blood for why serbia in need. if you see, i want to approach that you go eat meas, i want this vested, but this one, me not a toyota fail, pos, luisel rolon l o c, in those entities with welcome back to cross hoc were all things are considered. i'm purely belcher, mind you were discussing the evolving situation in ukraine. ah. okay, let's go back to watching in the boise. let's talk

a little bit about the partial more mobilization here. 300000 reverse reverse. reservists are going to be called up from what i understand from reports, it's gonna take 2 or 3 months to integrate them into this special military operation. they're still calling it the special military operation in looking at the referenda. how much is this going to be a demonstration effect for other parts of ukraine? because if logan's done yet, they get out and they become part of the russian federation. what kind of message that send to other parts of ukraine that are have not been all that happy under cab's rule, is this is something that you're going to be watching. go ahead. well, it is, and unfortunately the message comes too late for our calls. but, you know, there's given the treatment at the hands of their liberators. the book is not closed on that yet. and certainly, neo nicole live in odessa right and know what they might expect in the near future

if things continue to develop like this. i mean, this is, this is one of those things of once it happened, people were going, is it really going to change anything now? and, oh wow, it's long overdue. there really wasn't, hasn't been much reaction in between the, the partial realization. i think it is definitely going to help the manpower situation on the front line. and i think it's a recognition of the fact that that the nature of the battle has changed because the bulk of the old ukrainian army has been wiped out and been replaced with, you know, natal mercenaries and nato trained conscripts. and we're seeing that play out right now, and unfortunately, this war has been for far deadlier, in 6 months than the war that i'm familiar with from, you know, 25 years ago in bosnia. so my military expertise is limited in that respect, but this is definitely playing for keeps very good point george playing for keep.

this is what this message is all about. negative rate mobilization people. and there's been a lot of support for a lot of people been very frustrated the slow progress of the special military operation. now, it can't get more real here. and again, you know, as already the cities like odessa been mentioned here, it cuts both ways, doesn't it? mean, because if they have aspirations of having a referendum while they're still under the kids rule, and they can have a very terrorizing effect on the population. so that cuts both ways that these referenda yes it is. and that's great. the problem that russia really faced ever since 2014, which is the only way that you can have a referendum in ukraine, is if there are security forces that to ensure that people will be able to go to the polls and without getting murdered crimea. if you remember from

1991 hom had really wanted out from ukraine, but would prevent it from doing so because he is threatened crimea that you try to have any kind of a referendum and you will feel the full force of our armed forces so that's why in 2014 such a rush have to use the forces that he had in the classical to ensure that there actually was a proper referendum grand. so i think the same is going to apply it now, but the ultimately, the issue is can ukraine continue to wage this war leak send to the casualties that they have suffered? i mean, we have the estimate yesterday from the defense ministers a showing that they had 60000 ukranian service been killed. that is of no missile number. and then if you add to that the wounded, then you rooted pretty much think, you know, that there really isn't much of an armed force left to continue this fight,

russia something much fewer casualties and russia. this is a much bigger population to draw on. so it's very hard to see how ukraine can continue the spine, unless of course, nato gets directly wrong. and that is really going to be the ultimate question, the biden and trust. and sergeant schultz are going to have to decide on the next few days. notice it from what i've seen in reports from the, the ukrainian military and they're, they're deadly malicious. they're, they're, they're hitting civilian targets. the don baths, they, because their military is spent, it was destroyed during the summer. and, you know, all of us are in agreement here. russia is fighting nato. that's why, uh, president putin said they're fighting the collective strength of the west. and nato officially is incomplete denial. and i think all of us agree that we're going to find out pretty soon how much further nato wants to get involved in this. go ahead,

janice in a, in a and we'll go yes. do. the nato instructors has been here for years already. manning the nationalist, bought the lions and, and this is nothing new, but it just has been enforced that these scale. and though we are facing nato troops, that is, that is exactly what is happening. but i would like to raise up from dish the so river into question that at least we are talking above river induced, we're talking about the, the principles of the you and charters. and we are talking about the real of the people. and like, i just want to compare if that fealand was just taking to nature without any referendums. and the expansion of nato has been done without a referendum whatsoever. and that's what i liked so much in this way of dealing international politics. that referendums, the wheel of the people has its own, like go greet. oh wait. so did,

did it really matters for the russian world and that makes the whole difference. do somebody recognize to results or not? it's a different question. well, name the dentist, they think you care of paris or london or rome, recognizes the outcome of the record you care at all. i wouldn't. okay. i would guess. i think you care that moscow cares. okay. but you know, no bullshit. i see your, your earlier points here, if you're going to bring in these mom regions into russia, you have an iron clad obligation to protect them. okay. and i think that's what we're all worried about, because nato isn't going to give up easily, no way. okay? because if they do it breaks, nato, nato will be a joke. ok, and that's what makes this situation very, very dangerous navigation in washington. well, it's, it's an exit. i mean, it's become an existential fight for both sides at this point, but that's, that's the course they've de collision course. they've been headed to for years.

the, the issue i think is, as we've right. but we mentioned, i don't think very many people in russia or in the dumbass necessarily care what london or paris or washington think. and i think the thinking is the referendum isn't being held for the sake of nato or, or to us. it's being held for the sake of the rest of the world, which actually does care and which does have standards and does have a sense of shame. that has been thoroughly exterminated in the west of this point. because, you know, for these western governments, it doesn't matter what you do, it's only who you are. so they can't do anything wrong. and you know russians and the people in don bass can do nothing. right? and in fact, as i've mentioned, a few days to co on air, the, they treat people have dumbasses things. they're not even people anymore. you know, in their eyes. it's perfectly legitimate to, you know, set people in odessa protesting the newland regime on fire. but you know, god forbid that new coverage has police, you know,

clubs that my dad protesters before the violence, the overthrew him. it's the double standard and it's built into the whole i want to say system of values for lack of a better term. and which is a pure who, who morality in which the action itself doesn't matter. and this is the kind of thing that most of the rest of the world doesn't actually believe in and would like to see ended. and so i think from that perspective, having a referendum in and having, you know, russia stepping to protect these people is, is sending a message to them as far as the west. i don't think at this point, they're reachable by much in the way of messaging. that's such a good point. i mean, it's talking to the deaf and dumb. unfortunately, here, george nato has a big decision to make if they want to continue on this path of escalation, because it's as burrell our favorite and his blog. he says it's going to be settled on the battlefield. i tend to agree with him. maybe the only thing however agree

with him on. and so, and we, we do know that the, with this bub greater mobilization here, we're going to see more weaponry and i tend to think that the. busy kremlin is going to make a pretty strong statement about how it feels about nato's continued meddling and ukraine. go ahead, george. i agree, and the problem with the nato is that it's already a shockey bowl and aids. it's sent in a normal amount of hardware into ukraine. there's nothing in euro left over there. they can send even the united states army reserve becoming depleted. so essentially, it'll be nato that will have to make a decision personal to move to a war economy to stop producing a lot more ominous. and are they going to provide the manpower because your brain doesn't have them? and so therefore, again, you know, it will be up to the nature to desire. but typically as the heading into

a winter of discontent and without any energy. and it's quite likely that it does get involved, that, oh, and energy from russia will simply because, overnight, so no later than the site is ukraine. oh, worth it now. you know, according to we're still a funder lionel of friends. you know that yes, of course it's all worth it. you know, does the european public does the american public? i think that if you find a companion paul say differently, george ok. but then again, this isn't a league war. it always isn't it? lead war. ok. janice, i want to go to you and i want you to tell our viewers. we have one minute left. i want you to tell us how the people in the dawn bass have suffered over the last 8 years. how many people died, how many casualties? whilst as the world to close its eyes to your suffering, give us a few numbers. tens of thousands of lives directly. hundreds of thousands of rooms,

massive destruct. no fiends restructure shoots sacrifices in order to brook dick the russian will. the culture of the harry beach now is the time to get back home and and join the russian federation. that is, what is the price? what has been paid from these dish? yes. and, and now we also have to remember that what's going to be happening in the don bass will certainly will have a demonstration effect in other parts of ukraine. and maybe give help to self determination around the world. because there are plenty of people that want it, but western powers always deny them. that it's all the time we have gentlemen many, thanks them i guess in washing budapest and in logan's. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our tea seats, see you next time. remember, cross talk with ah

ah ah ah, well not that war with western shaped jenner western, the push are not in water with russia. they don't feel like it is. and i just want to ease at ward was russia vietnam, but she did, did you wash it wasn't done,

let your way use our ruling glass in our political. ah oh hello people i think is 70 percent of even 80 percent of serbian people over russians. but you know, you cannot make it like a fission or like something that you, you know, number people who come to sort of the book and then you may conclusion the pro russians are not boucher phobia. i mean.