an author of ma'am was of an expert pat manager in moscow during the 990 s. and here in moscow we have white read. he is a journalist with spooked nicknames. i generally cross across the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate gilbert, let me go to you 1st and st. petersburg, the votes are almost al, counted up. the results will be in very soon what, what is the significance of these referendums? because versus how the geography, the political geography of ukraine is going to change dramatically as, as military conflict goes on. what are the implications, go ahead. a box reynolds and the need reintegration over into the russian federation is important because ours that extends judy. a rush to deploy air, military forces, and search or otherwise would be, you know, frontiers of us and we're not with it is years in the us

on the phone on days it will be a cash for almost 4 also, or a nose just missed. so there's a legal legal hour ish where there for us or is contradiction. is fullness renter or it is the see the mesh near us. and that's what i told you. peppy, bad, centrally the same thing, because obviously these are not going to be recognized by the west. however, this is where the danger lies. because russia will claim that once they're inducted into the russian federation, they are russian sovereignty. and as this conflict goes on to non nato and washington, and de facto will probably test this and we've heard from, from the russian side,

don't do that because there will be very strong reactions here. so we are at a mo, an inflection point, a very dangerous one at that peppy. yes, it's a very dangerous inflection point, but there are 2 very important things happening at the moment. one that we more or less got confirmation of this today. they are now, they are back channels between the americans and the russians. they are not talking directly, but at least we have back channels. this proves that the by the ministrations absolutely terrified. they are cornered, they have no idea what they're going to do next. first of all because they don't have any strategic thinking prevention, sullivan, and blinking, dumb and dumber. doing strategic thinking. now it just doesn't, doesn't matter. right. and the pre planning the whole car. busy car episode was basically a pre planning for the russian army to protect the for b, b barriers during the referendums this week. and so what happened the chronology is

they tried everything to disrupt it. no, you didn't work. so you know, the people who are voting and more people are voting already been in crimea and buster probably still has the record, but everybody else. it's 8589 percent. so it's a major success. what happens max, which is something that we could discuss 4 hours, is that any attack by pierre is going to be an attack against the russian federation in we all know what that means. why it here in moscow, what i've been thinking a lot about would be looking at these referendums is that they serve as a demonstration effect because, you know, all of us know, even a little bit of ukrainian history. no. the point, you know, that is always been the most fragile of states. ok. i cobbled together in the 20th century. and now we have these referendums. there are other places like odessa, for example, that we watching very,

very carefully. now obviously the camp regime has military assets there, so people going to have to be very careful. but when they look at don bouts will say they did it, crimea did it, we can do it. and this is the most important precedence. it's being said, but it is not without its danger. go ahead. why? absolutely. and the officials that i spoke with at least one official i spoke with today when i went to the embassy of the dentist people's republic here in moscow, they predicted that this will certainly be a serious inflection point. that it means that in the short term media term, hostilities are likely to escalate the official i spoke with also predicted that it was possible that the the success of the referendums. i think we can now now say pretty confidently that they were successful. that will initiate a or lead to an escalation in terms of the russian governments classification from

a special military operation up to a antiterrorist operation, which i of servers will notice is the rationale behind russian operations in syria. so certainly i, you know, he also predicted that it's possible that russia may seek to label ukraine officially as a pair of state or a sponsor of terror. so certainly there are significant implications from these referendums, and we're already starting to see them play out. maybe i'm really glad that wyatt brought that up because we're going to go from the special military operation to a very different type of operation. and to say in, you know, in everyday parlance. if the sovereignty of these newly new regions of brush are violated, i'll say it quite bluntly be the gloves will come off. i think we all remember was about 10 days ago when for some unexpected reason, the lights went out through most of ukraine. it wasn't for very long. it was if

somebody was tapping the brakes here, reminding everyone the brakes can be more than tapped. go ahead, pepe. well this past summer, we have to go back to summer gun peter and all of you in the audience. this was discussed, face to face very, very serious conversation. we had some echoes from chinese echols about, this was an extremely serious conversation between pooty and she, she asked very strong questions and he gave very detailed answers. but the chinese message was essentially, you have to try to wrap this up as soon as possible. so that leads us to the referendums that leads us to the transformation of the s m. o into a city or a counter terrorist operation, which is the preferred model is open run the up, the russian army from chechnya to syria and now to ukraine. so, velvet gloves and all the wise date,

they are totally off as off this week. and that's why starting next week, we have a completely different ball game. the russians in intelligence security matters. they seem to have this under control finally and the internal front, around tutoring would, i would say what a 5 percent minority may be, is solidified, and people understand why this has to go one, at least one level up in the paying dial. we'll just wait for next week gilbert, but again, which we have to throw in this partial novelization of bringing up 300000 reservists. i mean that that's going to take time to deploy. if they're going to be deployed at all, it's going to take months. ok, i mean, they've already had basic training. they have, you know, they, they have their job descriptions here. but i mean, i'm reflecting upon what you said about timing. i've asked over the last couple of weeks every single guests have had on the program, you know,

who's got the clocks and who's has the time. and then there's a general consensus, gilbert that russia has the clocks and the time go ahead and st. petersburg. i think it has i think it's reasonable after the service and the frame or continue jackson course the new from to i think it is reasonable to expect that the ration war and that is no longer or that will be and i believe that it's within mr. paul, to end this war in a manner we use people. why don't people longer, which is just the cavity. the. the civilian military

administration's here, bio precision strengths that's entirely moved in the military. no. well that's. so what is the meaning of the partial bullish? the come back to say it's a matter of domestic russian actions both i believe that we see this yes, but a master. the worst was 3 months of training. the logic to me, they will be forced to hold down the territories. ukraine after is okay. why it here and in moscow there, there is, there is a, there is a sense of in patient. so you live here, i live here wanting to see this thing wound up. and i think the posts referendums

is this opportunity kind of echoing a little bit with what gilbert had to say, your thoughts go ahead. absolutely was extremely popular. the referendum voters that i've spoken to overwhelmingly, you know, everyone, everyone that i've talked to is voted. i've spoken to several people peers in their eyes. it's a situation of overwhelming emotion. people express to me basically they are feelings of relief. after 8 long years, i'm at what, why, why, if i get a job in here, i was a say that i was going to say that exactly. you know, we area in the world, it's february 24th. but for these people, it's been the law 8 long years of suffering and carnage. and it's about time it came to an end. and that perspective is not understood whatsoever in the west. you read articles about what's going on ukraine. most of don't even mentioned the mince process, it's so out of context here. so i,

i am very happy after having what my program cover this for 8 years that they're going to get some kind of closure or general. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the referendums in ukraine. stay with ah ah ah. ringback ringback ringback because she changed that with berkeley. now that was some discussion with him. is us a full set of national guido, which was actually due to room and journalism controllers alleged from when to do or not. but who did a place

with national anthem, a campus that the copy from wanted a voice or a new domain with me for a ah loser you no one? no, sir, no, no. hon. who a job? no, no. what dog?

more shrill than what they should end up unit 73. 1 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had ever no real. oh, you know, to production it issue or sure, doug did that. they're not eligible. no new son, new rochelle, he on more, more general margaret thought this is meant nguyen from all one of our funding and i got to learn much sale. i got ya know, i got on monday. i wish to know about julie whole knew he didn't

or gotten more polished enough jr. let's i had to put all the sco mother and all it buddy bill could you could help us out. nice. oh boy. good to go on. what the on this, the wall, she my and new other. i'm all, i can send more or said mom, good. so you don't a year you'll not on all of them are going to give us a b . welcome back across, ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing the referendums in ukraine. ah. okay, go back to pepe in bangkok a better, you know very well. i read the american conservative asia times online, antiwar dot com. you know what i read and i, i'm kind of bewildered by

a lot of these libertarian guys. they're good. people don't get me wrong. but, you know, negotiated end to the conflict here. well, i don't negotiating the new republics of the russian federation. russia is not going to negotiate that. okay, and why would russian negotiate with people that were involved with the mince process? they, they, welsh, they didn't keep their word. there's no, there's no negotiations that can go on that with the zalinski regime. of course not . and that's why kind of echoing a little bit about what a gilbert had to say in my mind, it's going to be regime change one way or another at the because at the end of the day and i want my audience to understand is very, very well russia isn't doing this now, so it has to do it again in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years. that public opinion is not going to be forward. go in and do the job. as you said, you would pepe yes, because as much as the game may be changing this week with the velvet gloves off.

its still demilitarization campaign, which is proceeding a face and a long term g. now, so if you cation come, pay for that, you're going to need to the copy, paste the current pro nazi nail miles, decrypt on eyes the regime. and that's a given, this is something that's from the beginning. i would say the crumbling was reluctant to speed up and now there's no reason to, to keep stalling. everybody knows it and internal public opinion supports it. in terms of negotiations, that's still nobody. so they go. sheets with europeans are vassals, you won't negotiate with european commission. you want to go sheets with the girl in paris and now wrong, very interesting where we have ga maloney which sash isn't the russian but deep now she's not. so that's another different equation in europe. and in the us, we have, in a matter of what a month and a half,

we have the dams being expelled from capitol hill, essentially. so they're going to have to negotiate with republicans in congress. that's another story. completely different story and their margin over maneuver. of course, we'll see they're going to have a link duck teleprompter reader present. so in these next one months to 2 months, the whole game is going to change. in fact, including the possibility of the step back track negotiations, at least these back channels that are now back in the case in business day, could find some accommodating way. we all know there's not, that's not going to be in a couple days because yeah, the russians have explicitly said this is a do or die affair. it's the new world order steak, you know, gilbert i, when i was up in st. petersburg during the internation economic forum. this year i came across some people from the global south of

a certain diplomat. and he said, you know, peter, how is that? how can we find a win win situation? i said there's no such thing as a win win situation. one side is going to win and one side is going to lose, and nato is going to lose. the european union is going to lose gilbert, your thoughts in ross? i think it was like to do the latest at all. it's not your the motion to the you, mr. to resign resignation. but that was not a personal career. it is point turning point in relations or if there's a way by removing their own from rose very the way we're not accepting the credentials of the new year. i think you

early in the current and the whole thing is going over this, you're directly industry got. i think that the nuclear re sector and was cold in washington and the russians are around the is very important to mention because what is the issue is not using they will be the most attention grain you're at the law and mr. trying to do it is whole

new cutting ish systems. what are drones and there's one that a us in here. so a, i think the final countdown to so it's interesting why it's what was going to be very interesting here as a whole sanctioned regime against russia because it is a whole lot of pride at stake here. ok, as your people pay higher food prices and you're getting cold in the winter, pride gets in the way hubris gets in the way. personally, i don't see the russians doing anybody any favors whatsoever. ok, again,

who's got the clocks and who's got the time. the european union has neither wyatt go ahead. absolutely, and i'd like to call you as attentions to what the german government is. so has said it suspects is sabotaged to downward stream pipelines. the denmark's prime minister has also said that it's hard to imagine. these are coincidences we know in february, u. s. president joe biden threatened that if russia invades, quote unquote, then there will no longer be ignored stream to we will bring an end to it. and a reporter asked him, but how will you do that exactly? since the project is under germany's control by and said, i promise you, we will be able to do that. so i think what we're looking at is the force de industrialization of the entirety of europe. langley, you know, the united states certainly understands that if sanctions won't stop russia, then they will simply force the, this economic aggression against russia by stopping europe, by credit in europe,

the economy. but, boy, but why it, it's, it isn't russia, it's the industrialize in europe. it's think americans doing it that the amazing thing about it, a pepe, want to jump in on that because i think it's a very germane point. go ahead. absolutely, look, i was in your, i came from paris a week ago where our discussion is apps. it's beyond off limits, you can not have a civilized discussion like this, the paris in berlin, and now now maybe in rome and milan with georgia, milan, basically what's happening is very well concert to american push, not only against russia, but specially against the you and germany, especially against germ germany, industrialization of germany, means the neutralization of the new and the you going back to a boss through the equivalent of the middle ages. this is what's happening in the america spectacles so far have been okay. happy pepe. i don't want to be

a history nerd here or anything like that. but there was a plan for the di, industrialization of germany, was called the morgenthau plan and that was being revised value during the over hold. what i didn't think it would take to build 2022 for the mortgage about plan to be put into play peppy. and the most extraordinary thing is that intellectuals from frankfurt, so i haven't seen any other that's, that's a little crazier. you know, you don't have a discussion in the for instance, that germany has very good newspapers. still, frank, full of algamite. the of you don't see a discussion like that discussion of substance and discussion of the role of being fossils and discard the expendable vessels that is being played by germany. and of course, in terms of the you,

this discussion in brussels is beyond offloads because the 5th and the 6 column this inside brussels, there are line. yeah, american agenda. gilbert, how did what, what does ukraine survive? this? what will be, what, what we call that ukraine after all is said and done in your mind, gilbert? i think the see the girl will be under control trans this year, or way to to see it. so loss perhaps 80 percent? sure, absolutely. and he is in. ringback service it will be a minor state territory. so in order to be integrated country,

you're really west. i wouldn't worry so much about creating the political services and the whole situation last year since my colleague and she really just especially for my day when she got her, they use electricity labors, the family years law to 500 years keeping in mind the average say it's around because it's just 1600 years and all it is, once you're a breast of larger now probably going to the gas or oil bill to the house or the point is under the law

is going to sar your political activity. and you're good to hear about warning brain and they do on the walls. well, they said it's very interesting. this is going to play out because i think we all agree here that these referendums are an inflection point here. but we shouldn't be complacent here. the empire, i hate to be humiliated in its being humiliated as we speak right now. so a lot more to come here. that's all the time we have gentlemen. many thanks to my guess in bangkok, saint petersburg and here in moscow. and thanks to where you are for watching us here at archie. see you next time. remember process rules?

i'm willing, it absolutely destroyed, you know, cranium, tv, toys, to anemia. idea. she ship a doctor, lean that report to control. you put you on board. so if she'll go did etivia, i'm a border by like you so that would only be me out of the not seeing the vice president of lucy leah with his skim shop doctor room. there's a crazy that jewelry store modern day my subway. but just dory. yes. or no, i live here the least get us, but i, we ship them said yes, they got a gift or should look like you know what of them. i need a new train score was with us for a one. they each the one that or up with global i'm

saying years about how she took on my job is to provide you enough room for a few quick to take a picture of. i'll go double play, you have to go so good. i'm up with you on i was showing wrong when i just don't a have to fill out the scene because of the advocate and engagement. it was the trail when so many find themselves well, the part we choose to look for common ground. a spoke with

edison, both both the models you need to do both got nelson with a, a, a, a, a a with the 1st one that we're dealing with

a, a. ringback because she spent with forced to marceau career, which was a mostly due to still when you have a couple it relates to me when you do, i don't but hold a talk with.