held in ukraine and their induction official right now into russia. and so here we have, here we are, we have a complete break between europe in russia and almost every single sense right now. and we have ukraine going under going under a massive transformation, which all 3 of us could have easily predicted and actually impacted your thoughts. george? no, this is a very good introduction. what really happened now is a disastrous outcome that was entirely predictable once on the way back on the policy are using ukraine in order to destroy russia. because what is really happened is that your brain continues to diminish. so we have the 1st phase was the loss of crimea back in 2014. now we have these 4 regions that are now

last forever. that's all of this tool that we have heard a few months from the realist foreign policy. think that, well, maybe we could revise to, you know, we'll have a mid spring that's gone. that's not, that's not happening anymore. and now course lee says the west to go, we're going not nothing changes. we're going to continue to pour in arms of your brain. we're going to go on by thing forever. well, then, much more of your brain is going to be lost. there it goes. well, this reaches, well, there's a black sea coast, you know, it's just a of the ukraine. martin, is them burrell just brought the foreign policy chief of the you. he says good. it

makes it more difficult even impossible for this war to end. well, that's really quite interesting. it's because, considering the fact that the, they're the ones that want to continue it, and i find it really curious for the war to an end the way he wants to see. but this is the point. this is the breach. these, this is, these are the political facts that i'm talking about. you know, you can share a referendums and all of that. it doesn't make any difference on the ground. ok, that's the problem here. and this is what the west is done. their, their battle is rhetorics and putting in a munitions into ukraine. that's it. that's their only policy. and they don't have an outcome that is even within the realm of the above possibilities. mar, barrow company, taken much or serious. i mean, to manage it. it's a, it's a minor miracle, how he got the job and 1st, but we should remember there's a stitch up them in between the european groups in brussels to always give that

post to a socialist format of trying to come country. so he was in line for it and he got the job, but he's joke, this is the same. brill don't forget the, when the war kicked off, did not make a beeline to put to putin and moscow that she went to washington. and made this rather absurd, no speech. talking about stepping up or west, a strength against russia, you know, talking up a war macro, went to moscow macro and being a more respected western leader that can actually talk the talk and represent the european union so, so burrell couldn't even represent you. he was sympathetic, he was, he was so weak and effective. he had to do is to rent on the stage next to his left wing socialist buddy biden. but i think come, we got to thinking wrong, you know, and it's amazing how so much time passes and the thinking is we can win. this is where the only question time you know,

and we see people at girl make these ridiculous statements, you know, but the truth, the truth is, i mean, mean there's also playing a role, but i think that you really got something wrong. and when we see such things as the know stream pipelines being blown up, you know, it's amazing, isn't it? how so few people in the west actually just drew breath and ask a few simple questions like why enough were pushing blow up his own oil pipeline. when he could just switch it off, you know, as he did recently with it's league, you know, i mean, he doesn't need to do the history on x. closing explodes isn't doing these, you know, come on to run things which are probably gonna make a, a, b, or c run, move in hollywood at some point. you know, we've lost a plot, we lost the narrative. you know, there's a certain hopelessness now amongst western countries, which is partly responsible why you have this love microns and new plan for an

e u 2.0, where he's not going to, he's gonna say, must have together 20 some member states plus neighbors like u k, ukraine and turkey to try and actually fast track big decision policy making and the cost of that list that are cool. it, and you may, but i can assure you, it isn't the army. it's been on the record, you know, the beginning of the french presidency last year. she said, we need to, you, me. so, this is what's in the pipeline, because the, you actually believes, you know, stop, stop giggling. you actually believes that an army, they had soldiers from france, better luck, spain with blue arm bands on their shoulders. but that would actually deter putin in ukraine. that it would scare him. they were pushing back. and this is the way they're thinking that they don't understand that understand how they did that once . it was under the pony and we know how george also

the ukranian president zalinski is going to be all that his arms and said, i'm not going to have to put in any more. wow, if anybody cares in why would you talk? there's a lensky in the 1st place when you can probably call somebody in washington. george . yes, and it's a particularly wants to talk to him. says he is openly say, are the people in charge in here, but the purpose of the united states, i mean they, they have no decision making capabilities, which, you know, because when those supposed to be in agreement signed in a sample in march, he was told in no uncertain terms you want to sign the agreement. so yeah, there is no good. what's interesting, you know, this is that he then presented. no, i want to foster application to nature and

then a few hours later. well, we need unanimous approval of this because he knows that he's been told by, you know, sensible members of nature, no way we're going to sign up on this. and even jake saw them a little bit about this. and also that's not really the main issue. so, so that's a kind of makes the question, i mean, what if, if you train did miraculously become part of nato, then nato in russia would be in a state of war. i mean, even they, even the very thought of having ukraine in nato at this moment breaks all the rules of nato membership. i mean they, they blow up high points, they change the rules, they change everything in the middle of the game and then point the finger,

the other guy say you did this martin, reflect upon that. go ahead. yeah. i'm, you know, as a journalist, i'm assume shame to be the for the state which is playing a huge role in all, you know, i mean the media really is towing the line on this not answer from the west on this . the history on extra blowing up pipelines and pointing the finger at, you know, i wonder where, where that went. so leading, i mean whether, whether we were actually at some point, whole journalists or major organizations to account. you know, i mean the, the whole question of nathan membership is george race. you know, it's hilarious isn't it? we, we probably don't realize just how weak the west is when it comes to actually go into war with, with the service. you know, we talk the talk, go the ministry spending, you know, even if germany is spend a 100000000000 years and to ramp up this military, you know, and, and now we're talking about in the, you army, we don't have the strength,

the courage, the fortitude, you know and put in those that and this idea of ukraine joining nature is just hilarious because it's just a one more p r, just us. so i think for nature, you know, i mean. busy this can, can pump out this absolute guff about nordic, not stream one into being blown up. you know, look at, look at the realities of this, of this, this we can call an act of terrorism item actually went on the record and said, we will stop the pipelines, you know, and his half with deputy harris did the same thing with the legend is not joining lines because they're told not. so that's all, that's not the kind of stories we think now that i guess civilian infrastructure is on the chessboard now. ok, i mean that's just after the attack this out of the nor streams pipeline. so

a new baltic by coin was introduced. so i don't know something could happen to that, i suppose. yeah, i think i think biden is playing a midterms coming up. so the timing, this is very interesting. and i think also it's all about business. you know, the american m l n g company is a cleaning up. and the idea is that european countries become more and more dependent on america in terms of energy dependency with also political as well. there is a deficit, you know, and, and that deficit may well, why don't as the months go past when more and more countries start taking a different viewpoint of what we're doing in ukraine to start asking some, some difficult questions or how do you think there's some kind of relationship martin between the temperature going down and eventually acts asking some serious questions. you think there's somehow related it will actually intensify? i think over the next few weeks when people really start suffering,

i mean horrendously stuffing, suffering. don't even our grandparents probably couldn't even imagine in the 2nd world war during the blitz along. for example, when, when that suffering starts, i think biden is very much aware of it. mean binding must be, is, is, administration must be incredibly disappointed in how things are going. and when he looks at european union, you know, in until that explosion of that pipeline. which, of course, he did the idea that, that the american people are so incredibly naive. you know, they'd be, i've read articles where people have actually question whether, you know, the, that the america, this country of great moral fortitude will actually do such, you know, i haven't jump in here. we have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stake with our ah

ah, with us affordably accost, we're getting them business, and you'll clean them a b, e w. that was chosen. yeah, americans, great you. when you wrote it, you just got over, it is just such an article and i certainly provide you a list of such and short emma's names your factor of the different student info, which of working with use her own the with them the problem you're still there with her as you job city yours are worth a lot of the study skills on distribution for each of to watch. so it was for me to on off on all thought it was huge in the longer you bullshit just in useful, not pay for postage, sustainable, but it won't because there's no way to portland useful. of course, i don't know which for you i know for the delano, as i said a lot of these for us to play in finances come

with a sing wrong when i just don't hold any world that you have to say about this thing because of the answer to an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground. a welcome back. across stock were all things are considered. i'm futile. well, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah

ok, let's go back to the, into the break. you want to finish up your point, please do. well, the point is that things are not happening quickly enough by them in europe. they need a catastrophe to unfold much, much more quickly, up until that point where the pipeline was blown up. you had this preposterous situation where the e was bang on about creating sanctions against russia, which wasn't even past, but a number of countries still taking gas and oil. so you know, for lincoln to say, i think yesterday that this was a great thing in the opportunities you preempted me because that's exactly the question i have your georgia and the secretary of state said that the north stream explosions are a tremendous opportunity. i mean, again, this is it, this is all their, their propaganda right now, this is, you know, this is an opportunity for a energy gram today. so to, to create

a very submissive europe which i'm never really interested because in the, these, lose their productivity. do you think the americans going to sell and g on the cheap? i doubt it. ok. these are private companies. they're going to gouge all they can because their customers, their newfound customers are going to be in such desperate need. so, you know, the whole thing about, you know, the european union was 2 things. the promise was prosperity and security. they have neither and the you are just make it even worse, george. yes, of course, this was entirely obvious from the beginning, and there was the united states back starting back in 2004 with the orange revolution that was going to use your brain in order ultimately to diminish and then destroy russia. and europe was going to get in the way and from the start of europe, victoria new choice words. right?

yeah, exactly. is continue to follow the american line. and it will be all, this was all this, you know, here they started the imposing the mother of all sanctions. the europeans were going to suffer because it was the europeans who were the most dependent on russian energy, russia. and so now, you know, with clearly the americans were concerned that with winter coming, going to be strong protest in europe. and pressure would grow on sergeant schultz to knock it up. come to an agreement with russia and get that note street to bike line. go and you know, who to send in some account that the shanghai corporation organization. if you want gas just on the wow and we've got gas and you know, we can look at it, we can see reading the poles in germany the other night the party is rising and

they are explicitly saying, hey, turn on the screen too. so clearly this is the united states was very concerned that we're going to go in europe to say to finally, you know, let's talk some sense, get the gas coming and the american step in and brought it to. and so now, you know, the european economy is in a tailspin and you know, the worst of all industries are moving out of germany to the united states, say, well, you know, with your energy supplies in the united states, we don't have it anymore in germany. money it's, it's interesting that i constantly phrase this as a nato's warren russia and george and i have discussed on our podcast. the guy we have the russians are using a new term over the last few weeks. the collective west. ok, but there is another conflict going on here and it's a war on western war on germany. i mean, it's really extraordinary to me,

the length of the you will do to batter down and germany. we still have the hope, the praise keep the russians out, the germans down in the americans in i said, i thought that was the cold war paradigm. i actually survived the cold war because we're seeing it right now. ready but i think it's right to the american should fear germany, because no matter which way things go in the next few months, you know, it's clear that germany will take more of the role more leading role on behalf of the and also prison interests. i mean, you know, it's not just about increasing military spending, which, you know, she was pulled off. i mean, it was quite quite something to actually present that to the palmer. i'm going to ship, but i'm not sure how to face the opprobrium from media of people who would say, well, hang on, you know, we don't really want history to repeal. so we don't want another, you know, a military situation that we had in the, in the late thirties. but, you know, germany is there are signs that germany is developing as

a superpower on its own. i think the, the move towards being a big military power and then looking for partners to written about and recent articles in germany has had the not in the week wink from a number of countries who said, well look in a if you will do a bit of peacekeeping here, and then you want to, you want to invade a few countries in the middle east would probably support you are going to go wrong with that class. so you already going to you me in the making on the germans side. not to mention the one i mentioned on the french side, so it's quite normal. i think that the americans will look at germany as a saw adversary. now, some of the, the can't be trusted to pull the lawyer, but it is much, much worse to come. because if france goes ahead, america goes ahead with this new european communities model is, you know, this will alienate the americans in any nature even further. and this idea of this notion is wet dream. the french general is delay interviewed in 2008 of and the european pillar within nato will come about. and i,

i can't see anything positive on the american side of that. you know, slowly the credibility of nature starts to wind down and it loses stuffs, loses edge. it's our, it's influence when it has to refer to europe on some of these big decisions. if it doesn't have your it with it, in some of the hot spots around the world, it's can be quite difficult for it to function. we should never forget the before the ukraine will started, native had a serious credibility problem and a real problem with this image around the world. and so ukraine war, including the source on it, done it quite a favor, i think, you know, managed to pull of all over the lives of a lot of people in europe to say, oh, actually nature does have a role, you know, but people don't really understand that you can talk to talk so long before as a military organization, you actually have to walk the walk. you actually have to face people and face bullets and face artillery, and i don't as ever going to happen. so in my view, in the longer game nature will always have this credibility problem. well, i think, i think the outcome of this conflict in ukraine will be definitive for the few do

in game. and if george, it's really interesting i'm, i'm glad martin brought this all it because we've talked to a great length in the past. about nato is basically at the top of the ladder. ok, it's not. it's not the un nato that are parallel. no, it's it. nato now is dictating you policy and good to go back to martin's point here, who's going to be the top dog of nato. if you know the germans would like it, we talked about what, what charging, so to said over the last few weeks. it's historically, it's very scary, but it wasn't given much coverage here. of course the americans want to keep it as theirs. and in the chrome is making a pitch in the absence of anglo merkel, you know, his own pitcher. and so here we have, i think that the nato is good if they absolve it's all very badly in this conflict, it may even shatter it altogether. and the u is the, is a huge casualty to as well. it's all about is going to be top dog of this military

alliance that should have been dissolved 40 years ago. go ahead church. well, it wasn't dissolved on the country as nato visited. so that is going to be a global military alliance. and we'll talk about global. so the idea roughly speaking is as the americans conceive it is that, well will be a kind of a division of labor. so we have your, and i will have germany, our loyal deputy marshall not to be charge of the military in europe while we can then move into asia and do our containment policy towards china, asia. the problem that they have is they really don't know how to fight this war. a crane because alone is a, if you put all the numbers on paper, why look at how strongly are you going? you know, so the countries you out all week true. so not really on them is where we were so

strong compared to russia. yeah, but you don't have any means. well, actually fighting a war in ukraine. i mean how, how this even happen. i would need to be able to move into your brain now without essentially russia destroying major infrastructure destroying. and they just make reports. they don't, if you, before you ever even got anywhere near your grade or even if you americans try to bring in forces when elsewhere. you great, it does happen. so this is just that way. you know, you have to use the old phrase dissipate, but i get, you know, you add it all up. well, make powerful alliance. how are we going to fight a war? yeah, well martin, i mean, people have told me i'm very openly and honestly, is that at least in the 1st few months of the conflict to your nato countries sent the junk that they had in the, in the, in the, in the shed outside, you know, that they didn't need anymore,

and they've and then we've gotten to the point where, well they're passing a spending bills to actually build equipment that doesn't even exist yet to be sent there, or maybe next year. again, it shows the destroy the destruction of the pipelines. shows that they do not want to have any kind of diplomacy to end the conflict that their goal is to continue to lead russia. and so it's all about, you know, who's got the time. and i've been over the last 2 weeks about all of my guess who's got the clocks and he's got the time and every single one says the russians have bo your thoughts. yeah, i think the key thing here is that i think there's a real fear amongst you release that we're going to run out of time that we're not gonna get through this winter without huge political upheaval, riots a breakdown of criminal of law and order. and you know, some of these governments are going to stop toppling and will some one,

a lot of these left wing governments, your topple because of such issues. you know, usually the replaced by right wing governments and this, and then you get this follow up. you get this momentum of people actually taking power within the european parliament by right wing seats as well, which is a massive nightmare for the, for the, for the federalist and brussels are running the show that you know, so it really is all about one time and i think time is running out and whether we will actually get to february or march before the whole project starts falling to pieces. because i think, i think we really made, i think the leaders really made a massive missed judgment. you know, we look when it started, you know, it's amazing how far is johnson in britain actually managed to throw his weight behind the grill, in terms of promising money and standing firm with nature and all that. i'm being the leader. incredibly, he didn't actually have to face any account c palmer people to pursue life argued.

i recently wrote, one of my opinion base is that we won't be need in the west of safety checks, you know, safety catches on huge policy decisions. so, you know, our hardware leader, so if you look, if you notice i'm becoming more more stupid, we're going to go back to what it is. there's no check on this political lead here at all the time we have here. i want to thank my guess in budapest, man and, and in medication, i want to thank you for watching us here. are the see you next? i remember. ah ah ah, yes, mr. absolutely. well, with a little thing with your hood, and yet they have me on that all with some of the free people would end up with

shock because usually, you know, she was come on with some stuff done with the new york. so like when somebody wrote up with to deal with with a minute. it was up here at the board, but when you with they don't finish with yes, yes,

the closest thought ah ah ah ah, but a doubles are going to put dr. choose for the school. i

hope that i see a with god because i love us. we are with ford edge that also produce a choice issue. somebody over there, boss, those with video with luck out of you up pulls up, i guess we'll look at is yvonne use with

the idea raise you either way. i don't mind ah, this is one of the places that the ukrainian military had destroyed off to getting an anonymous tip off our ti investigates the aftermath of shelling in lieu guns and speaks to a dtn name who states he was hired by ukraine to identified civilian infrastructure targets put them off to, he gave me the money and left there was shelling at this address and i heard from people that civilians died. that with ties with france anymore. we have new partners with whom we're already working with. turmoil and burkina. faso continues after last week's always thing.