[000:00:00;00] with ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm funeral bell russians don't bluff. they act with the induction of 4 ukrainian regions into russia. it should be clear to all moscow is determined to achieve all the goals it set out at the start of this conflict. in the meantime, the west is in

a panic. there are panic is irrational and dangerous. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j america. he's an award winning journalist and commentator. and in budapest we have towards m u l. e. he is a podcast for at the gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman cross that goes to the back. that means you can jump any time you want and i will appreciate it. let's start out with george in budapest, george. i'm titling this program political facts and over the last few days. some political facts have made themselves loud and clear. first, we have the sabotage of the north stream pipelines. it's pretty obvious who did it . i don't want to dwell on it, but we have to dwell on the fact that it is no longer going to be of any practical use for keeping europe warm and keep its industry moving through this winter.

also, the 2nd important political fact, the outcomes of the referendums that were held in ukraine and their induction, all but official right now into russia. and so here we have, here we are, we have a complete break between europe and russia and almost every single sense, right? now, and we have ukraine going under going under a massive transformation, which all 3 of us could have easily predicted and actually impacted your thoughts. george? no, this is a very good introduction. what really happened now is a disastrous outcome that was entirely predictable. once on the way back on the policy of using your brain in order to destroy russia. because what is really happened is that your

brain continues to diminish. so we have the 1st phase was the loss of crimea back in 2014. now we have these 4 regions that are now lost forever, as all of this tool that we have a few months from so realist for a policy think that, well, maybe we could revise to, you know, we'll have a mid spring that's gone. that's not, that's not happening anymore. and now course the says, the west, the glad go. we're going not nothing changes. we're going to continue to pour in on your brain. we're going to go on by thing forever. well, then, much more of your brain is going to be lost. it goes well, this reaches, well, there's a black sea coast, you know, it's just going to be a great,

a darell, just browse the foreign policy chief of the you. he says, couldn't makes it more difficult even impossible for this war to end. well, that's really quite interesting. it's because in considering the fact that they're the ones that want to continue it. and i, i finally, really curious for the war to an end the way he wanted to see. but this is the point, this is the breach. these, this is, these are the political facts that i'm talking about. you know, you can share a referendums and all of that, it doesn't make any difference on the ground. ok, that's the problem here. and this is what the west is done there, there rattle is rhetorics and putting in admissions and ukraine. that's it. that's their only policy and they don't have an outcome that is even within the realm of a possibility, smarter barrow can't be taken seriously. i'm going to manage a minor miracle, how he got the children's 1st, but we should remember there's

a stitch up them in the between the european groups in brussels to always give that post to a socialist form. that is trying to come a country. so he was in line for it and he got the job, but he's joke. this is the same. brill don't forget the, when the war kicked off, did not make a bee line to put to putin and moscow that she went to washington. and made this rather absurd, no speech. talking about her stepping up or a western a strength against russia, you know, talking up a war mack who went to moscow macro and being a more respected western leader that can actually talk the talk and represent the european union so, so burrell couldn't even represent the he was sympathetic, he was, he was so weak and ineffective. he had to do is to rent on the stage next to his left wing socialist buddy biden. but i think come, we've got to thinking wrong, you know,

and it's amazing how so much time passes and you think is we come when this is when you on the question of time, you know, and we see people that girl make is ridiculous statements. you know, but the truth, the truth is, i mean, mean there's also playing a role here, but i think you really got some role. and when we see such things as the know stream pipelines being blown up, you know, it's amazing, isn't it? how so few people in the west actually just drew breath and ask a few simple questions like why enough were pushing blow up his own oil pipeline when he could just switch it off. you know, as he did recently with it's league, you know, i mean, he doesn't need to do, do the history on x of closing, explodes isn't doing this, you know, come on to run things which are probably going to make a, a, b, or c run, move in hollywood, at some point, you know, we've lost the plot where last announce if, you know there's a certain hopelessness now, amongst western countries,

which is partly responsible while you have this, don't love microns, a new plan for an e, you $2.00 where he's gonna he's going to sort of muster together 20 some member states plus neighbors like u. k, ukraine and turkey to try and that's the fast track, big decision policy making and the cost of that list that are cool. it and the you are me, but i can assure you, it isn't the army. it's been on the record, you know, the beginning of the french presidency last year. yeah. she said, we need to, you are me. so this is what's in the pipeline, because if you actually believes, you know, stop, stop giggling in ashley believes they've had an army. they had soldiers from france . the been a lot of spain with blue bands on their shoulders, that would actually deter putin in ukraine. that it would scare him, they were pushing back. and this is the way they're thinking that they don't

understand it and understand how i think they did that. it was under napoleon and we know how that george, also the ukrainian president zalinski is going to be a hold of his arms and said, i'm not going to have to put in any more. wow, is it anybody cares in why would talk? does a lensky in the 1st place when he can probably call somebody in washington? george? yes, and it's not a particularly wants to talk to him. says he is openly say that the people in charge in here. what is the purpose of the united states? i mean they, they have no decision making capabilities, which, you know, because when those supposed to be in agreement signed in the sample in march, he was told in no uncertain terms you want to sign the agreement. so let's say that is a what's interesting, you know,

this is that he then presented, you know, why i went to class trans application to nature. and then a unanimous approval of this because he knows that he's been told by, you know, sensible members of major no way we're going to sign up on this. and even jake saw them a little bit about this. and also that's not really the main issue. so, so that was a kind of big the question, i mean, what if, if you frame did miraculously become part of nato, then nato in russia would be in a state of war. i mean, they even the very thought of having ukraine in nato as at this moment breaks all

the rules of e. nato membership. i mean they, if they blow a pipeline, they change the rules, they change everything in the middle of the game and then point the finger, the other guy think you did this martin. reflect upon that. go ahead. yeah. i'm, i'm, you know, as a journalist i'm, i'm assume shame to be the for the state which is playing a huge role in all, you know, i mean, the media really is telling the line on this not answer from the west on this the, the history on extra blowing up pipelines and pointing the finger at and you know, i wonder where, where that whether so leading, i mean whether, whether we will actually at some point, hold journalists or major organizations to account. you know, i mean the, the whole question of nathan membership is george raised. it's hilarious isn't there. we, we probably don't realize just how weak the west is when it comes to actually go into war with, with the service. you know, we talk the talk, go the military spending, even if germany spent

a 100000000000 years and to ramp up this military, you know, and, and now we're talking about in the, you, me, we don't have the strength, the courage, the fortitude, you know, and put in those that and this idea of ukraine joining nature is just hilarious because, you know, it's just a one more p all just us. so i think for nature, you know, i mean. busy this can, can pump out this absolute guff about nordic, nor dream one into being blown up. you know, look at, look at the realities of this, of this, this, we can call it an act of terrorism by them actually went on the record and said, we will stop these pipelines, you know, and his half with deputy harris did the same thing. if legend is not joining lines because i told not to, that's all, that's not the kind of stories i don't know to be. think now that i guess civilian

infrastructure is on the chessboard now. ok, i mean, just just after the attack this out, the north stream pipeline or a new baltic by going was introduced. so i don't know something could happen to that, i suppose. yeah, i think i think biden is playing a midterms coming up. so the timing, this is very interesting, but i think also it's all about business unit american and n g company is a cleaning up. and the idea is the european countries become more and more dependent on america. in terms of energy dependency would also political as well. there is a, you know, and, and that deficit may well, why don't as the months go post when more and more countries start taking a different viewpoint of what we're doing. and ukraine is still asking some, some difficult questions, or how do you think there's kind of relationship martin between the temperature going down and eventually acts asking some serious questions. you think they're

somehow related it will actually intensify. i think the next few weeks when people really start suffering, i mean horrendously suffering, suffering, but even our grandparents probably couldn't even imagine in the 2nd world war during the blitz and fix on the one. when that suffering starts, i think i don't, is very much aware of it. mean binding must be, is, is, administration must be incredibly disappointed in how things are going. and when he looks at european union, you know, it until that explosion of that pipeline. which of course, he did the idea that, that the american, i mean the people are so incredibly naive. you know, they'd be, i've read articles where people actually question whether, you know, the america, of this country of great moral fortitude will actually do such, you know, and here we have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with our aah in the united states

with in, in tax on other countries economic sanctions are, are often just the beginning. another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. we have a responsibility for the whole world. and we need to make rules for the rest because without us there will be k i m

hm ah ah, welcome back across not we're all things are considered. i'm funeral bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah ok, let's go back to martin, right before you into the break. you want to finish up your point. please do. well, the point is that things are not happening quickly enough to buy them in europe.

they need a catastrophe to unfold much, much more quickly, up until that point of where the pipeline was blown up. you had this preposterous situation where the e was bang on creating sanctions against russia, which wasn't even past, but a number of countries still taking gas and oil. so you know, for lincoln to say, i think yesterday that this was a great thing in the opportunities you preempted me because that's exactly the question i have your georgia and the secretary of state said that the north stream explosions are a tremendous opportunity. i mean, again, this is, this is all their, their propaganda right now, this is, you know, this is an opportunity for a energy graham today. so to, to create a very submissive europe which i'm never really interested because in the, they've lose their productivity. do you think the americans going to sell and g on the cheap?

i doubt it. ok. these are private companies. they're going to gouge all they can because their customers, their newfound customers are going to be in such desperate need. so, you know, the whole thing about, you know, the european union was 2 things. the promise was prosperity and security. they have neither and the you are just make it even worse, george. yes, of course, this was entirely obvious from the beginning, and there was the united states back starting back in 2004 with the orange revolution that was going to use your brain in order ultimately to diminish and then destroy russia. and europe was going to get in the way and from the start of europe, victoria new choice words. right? yeah, exactly. is continue to follow the american line. and it will be obvious . it was obvious, you know, here soon as they started the imposing the mother of all sanctions that the

europeans were going to suffer because it was the europeans who are the most dependent on russian energy, russia. and so now, you know, with clearly the americans were concerned that with winter coming, going to be strong protest in europe. and pressure would grow on sergeant schultz to knock it up. come to an agreement with russia and get that note street to bike line, go and you know, who to send in some of the shanghai corporation organization. if you want gas just on, on the wow. and we've got gas and you know, we can look at it, we can see reading the polls in germany, the out, the party is rising. and they are explicitly saying, hey, turn on the screen to. so clearly this was the united states was very concerned that person is going to go in europe to say to finally, you know,

let's talk some sense, get the slave gas coming, and the american step in and brought it to. and so now, you know, the european economy is in a tailspin and you know, the worst of all industries are moving out of germany to the united states. a well, you know, with secure energy supplies in the united states. we don't have it anymore in germany. money it, it's interesting that i constantly phrase this as a nato's war on russia and george and i have discussed on our podcast, the guy we have the russians are using a new term over the last few weeks. the collective west. ok, but there is another conflict going on here and it's a war on western war on germany. i mean, it's really extraordinary to me, the length of the you will do to batter down and germany. we still have the hope, the praise keep the russians out, the germans down in the americans in i said, i thought that was the cold war paradigm. i actually survived the cold war because

we're seeing it right now. yeah. ready but i think it's right to the americans should fear germany, because no matter which way things go in the next few months. you know, it's clear that germany will take more of the role more leading role on behalf of the you and also prison interests. i mean, you know, it's not just about increasing military spending, which, you know, she was pulled off. i mean, it was quite quite something to actually present that to the palmer. but i'm not sure how to face the opprobrium from media of people who would say, well, hang on, you know, we don't really want history to repeal. so we don't want another, you know, a military situation that we had in the, in the late thirties. but, you know, germany is there are signs that germany is developing as a superpower on its own. i think the, the move towards being a bigger military power. and then looking for partners to written about and recent articles in germany has had the not in the week wink from

a number of countries who said, well look in a if you will do a bit of peacekeeping here. and then you want to, you want to invade a few countries in the middle east would probably support you're going to go wrong with that plan. so you're already going to you, me in the making on the german side, not to mention the one i mentioned on the french side. so it's quite normal. i think that the americans will look at germany as a so adversary. now, some of the, the can't be trusted to pull the lawyer, but it is much, much worse to come. because if the front goes ahead, american, go ahead with this new european communities model is, you know, this will alienate the americans in any nature even further. and this idea of this notion is wet dream. the french general zoe, interviewed in 2008 of and the european pillar within nature, will come about. and i, i can't see anything positive on the american side of that, you know, slowly the credibility of nature starts to wind down. and it loses stops,

loses edges our influence when it has to refer to europe on some of these big decisions. if it doesn't have the unit with it, in some of the hot spots around the world, it can be quite difficult for it to function. we should never forget to before the ukraine will started, native had a serious credibility problem. and a real problem with this image around the world and, and so you claim war and to, to the source on it, done it quite a favor, i think, you know, is managed to pull of all over the lives of a lot of people in europe to say, oh, look, actually, nature does have a role, you know, but people don't really understand that you can talk the talk so long before as a military organization, you actually have to walk the walk. you actually have to face people and face buddhists and face artillery. and i don't have ever going to happen. so in my view, in the longer game nature will always have this credibility problem. well, i think, i think the outcome of this conflict in ukraine will be definitive for the few do in game. and if george, it's really interesting i'm, i'm glad martin brought this all it because we've talked

a great length in the past. about nato is basically at the top of the ladder. ok, it's not. it's not b, e u, in nato that are parallel. no, it's, it. nato now is dictating you policy and good to go back to martin's point here, who's going to be the top dog of nato? if you know the germans would like it, we talked about what, what charging so to said over the last few weeks, it's historically, it's very scary, but it wasn't given much coverage here. of course the americans want to keep it as theirs. and in the chrome is making a pitch in the absence of anglo merkel, you know, his own pitcher and a. so here we have, i think that the nato is good if they absolve it's all very badly in this conflict . it may even shatter it altogether. and the u is the, is a huge casualty to as well. it's all about who is going to be top dog of this military alliance that should have been dissolved 40 years ago. go ahead church. well,

it wasn't dissolved on the country as nato visited south. that is going to be a global military alliance and we'll talk about global. so the idea roughly speaking is as the americans conceive it is that, well will be a kind of a division of labor. so we have your, and i will have germany, our loyal deputy marshall that will be in charge of the military in europe while we can then move into asia and do our containment policy towards china, asia. the problem that they have is they really don't know how to fight this war ukraine, because a, if you put all the numbers on paper, why look at how strong we are? because you know, so the countries you actually true, so not all the way we were so strong compared to russia. yeah. but you don't have any means. well, actually fighting a war in ukraine. i mean how,

how this even happen. i would need to be able to move into your brain now without essentially russia destroying major infrastructure destroying. and they of course, make reports if you, before you ever even got anywhere near your grade, or even if you americans try to bring in forces when elsewhere. you, great, it does happen. so this is just that way. you know, you have to use the old phrase dissipate, but i, you know, you add it all up. well maybe basel alliance. how are we going to fight a war? yeah, well martin, i mean, people have told me i'm very openly and honestly, is that at least in the 1st few months of the conflict to your nato countries sent the chunk that they had in the, in the, in the, in the shed outside, you know, that they didn't need anymore, and they've and then we've gotten to the point where, well they're passing a spending bills to actually build equipment that doesn't even exist yet to be sent there, or maybe next year. again,

it shows the destroy the destruction of the pipelines, shows that they do not want to have any kind of diplomacy to end the conflict. their goal is to continue to leave russia. and so it's all about, you know, who's got the time, and i've been over the last 2 weeks about all of my guess who's got the clocks and he's got the time and every single one says the russians have bo your thoughts. yeah, i think the key thing here is that i think there's a real fear amongst you release that we're going to run out of time that we're not gonna get through this winter without huge political upheaval, riots a breakdown of criminal of law and order. and you know, some of these governments are going to stop toppling and will some one a lot less when governments, your trouble because of such issues, you know, usually replaced by right wing governments and this,

and then you get this follow up. you get this momentum of people actually taking power within the european parliament by right wing seats as well, which is a massive nightmare for the, for the, for the federalist and brussels are running the show that you know, so it really is all about on time. and i think time is running out and whether we will actually get to february or march before the whole project starts falling to pieces. i think i think we really made. i think the leaders really made a massive missed judgment. you know, we look when it started, you know, it's amazing how far is johnson in britain actually managed to throw his weight behind the grill, in terms of promising money and standing firm with nature and all that. i'm being the leader. incredibly, he didn't actually have to face any account polymer, people to put some i've argued, i recently wrote one of my opinion pieces that we won't be needing the west of

safety checks, you know, safety catches on huge policy decisions. so, you know, our hardware leader. so if you look, if you notice are becoming more, more stupid, we're going down exactly what it is. there's no check on this political lead here at all the time we have here. i want to thank my guess in budapest and, and, and in medication i want to thank you for watching us here. are the see you next? i remember across cycles. ah, ah, with a misty, absolutely. well,

with a question of the free people, when enough was shock because generally, you know, she was come out really who can watch some stuff done with with all that, if, if those have been york still, i felt like need somebody wrote up with to deal with with a little community and it was

a double up which can you with it go to photo ah, we're not reacting to imaginary threats and distant countries. we're defending our borders, our homeland, our entire people, from actual genocide, russia's top diplomatic comments on the exception of full new regions into the country. the lower house of parliament, just ratifying the mood. also ahead for this is one of the places that the ukrainian military had destroyed off to getting an anonymous tip off to investigate devastating artillery shelling into guns and speaks to a detainee who says he was hired by ukraine to identify civilian target.