mr. there, plenty of people who think there, i'm put and said, i don't, i don't, nobody's thinking i can only observe what i've seen. but it seems to me as if the reason this was supposed to military operation, the beginning is that president putin did not realize that this would be a nato versus russian war. as you quickly point out in your introduction, peter, so he's been able to scale up his response to nato's increasing involvement. the introduction of heavy weaponry, the introduction of direct targeting by nato. and i think that forced him to go to the next level, which is to agree to something that he had disagreed with 1st quite some time. remember these republics, or at least some of them, the best ones in join russia back in 2014 and was not interested in doing it that time as forced him. i would say it's lead him to make this conclusion that to establish facts on the ground is the only way to respond to the fact that nato itself is a war with russia. hence, the sort of the, the beginning of partial mobilization and the end of any pretense that this is

a russia ukraine war any longer. jo, essentially the same question to you. and on top of that, we have a president lensky, almost like a child to juvenile folding. his arms and saying, i'm not going to talk to putin. ok. i have to believe that that was whispered in his ear considering all of the loose rhetoric we have heard. considering with the background of the, of the pipelines being destroyed here, they're upping the rhetoric here, but russia's changing the political facts on the ground. joe, go ahead. i think it's not an overstatement, that we're in the most dangerous psych period, maybe in all of history, and i'm to get the cuban missile crisis. this is a hot war going on and we've got, we had jeff k and office not present to you as president if need out decides to move on these new territories that russia is absorbing. you know, i think the time for arguing who's right or wrong in this war, and i've done that in articles in on other shows and does show is over. we've got

to get both sides together to end this. and that would be giving up territory by, by ukraine, them, that's what's going to have to happen because this is got to end before we're all dead. serious about that. you know, we want to russians put up with this for 30 years, being pushed into this resource. coons anger, flashing at the 2007 munich security conference. and now in this last speech, i mean, he laid it all out. of course the west cannot understand a word he's talking about some of them. they cannot see themselves the way others see them. now i'm sure there's some cynics within the u. s. establishment and leadership, and they know what's going on, what the dangerous. they know that they're so called mission to spread. their exceptionalism is rubbish. and that they've actually pushing their own interest. so maybe the cynics are going to have to save us. they're gonna have to realize that they can push this any further. and both sides have to sit down and talk and end this thing now. yeah, well margaret, i absolutely agree with what joe is said with daniel said, but if you, if you follow the advice of joe, then you're an apologist. you're of the appeaser,

a, all of the worst things you could possibly quisling all you know, it's pull out everything. ok. and that is why we got ourselves into this situation . i'm sorry to be a nerd about this here, but i did recall over and over again in my program and tell was banned on you tube . that on december 17th, the gauntlet was dropped. we have to negotiate before it gets hot. and this is where we are right now. ok? so you know, negotiations there's, you know, then people think there has to be a diplomatic solution. well, it takes to, to talk and one doesn't want to talk because what is being told not to talk, margaret. yes. and there was a time when they were talking, so it's very clear they were told not to. and as for zalinski is little performance . lest we forget, he is an actor. so if the united states told him to talk, he would, ukraine has been a de facto us colony since 2014. so anything they say or do is what

washington is telling them, washington and their allies, particularly in the u. k. but this, i agree completely with joe, this is a very, very dangerous moment. not only do you have a government, joe biden, a week president, not very smart with the not very smart team of people who have this fantasy that they hope to make a reality. so not only does ukraine blow up in their faces, but they will add to that by antagonizing china. this is the worst group of people that i can remember in my life, running foreign policy in this country and that, and they had that here helping them in that sense. and that saying something, margaret, considering this is decades of strings of failure and destruction and death and wasted treasury. daniel, for me that rubicon was finally finally finally crossed with the destruction of the

north stream pipelines. because you can't pick them quickly. why would russia fix them? they're going to be, they would be up for sabotage again. i mean, they have drawn the line, the europeans are going to suffer for this. germany has germany even protested who in europe is even protested. and then you have tony blinking. so your tremendous opportunity here. i mean, when people tell you who they are, believe them, daniel, it is very obvious, you know, and colonel mcgregor was on fox. i think the other day saying, what can't you said out loud? which is that it's obvious that either the u. s. u. k, poland, or some combination of the 3, which is probably the case, is responsible for this and it is remarkable. as you point out, the germans are saying anything, salt and berg, nato said, well, clearly this looks like some kind of sabotage. you know, the elephant in the room is, is this. i mean, it reminds me of the m 817 on the plane that just happened to get blown up and was

blamed on russia. the idea that there's anything in it for russia to blow up their own pipeline of multi $1000000000.00 to lose $500.00 a $1000000.00 worth of gas and thin air. it makes no sense. obviously it's, it's, it's feels like a desperation move, but not against russia. and this is the important point, i think peter, which is this was that attack? no, no rush this property only. but mostly in the talk on germany. yep. germany has no chance. and there is, there have been some indication that there were some discussions going on between russia and germany. there's unrest in germany, people taken to the streets and hasn't gotten cold yet. the last, the last hour for them to use to space sickly, saved themselves this winter is to restart. nordstrom wanting to start listing to. that's now off the table for the most part. so this was an attack on germany and make sure that germany does not find any kind of refreshment with russia. well, daniel are said in a different way, but agreeing with you is to maintain american hegemony over europe. that's the

point here. okay. and joe, so i guess, nato, you know, it's, it's, it's very foundation was the russians out, the germans down in the americans and i think it didn't, you didn't need the cold war for that. okay. because that's the way the us wants to maintain its control over europe. go ahead, joe. you know, this term commodore, when the indigenous leaders are selling out the on people to serve a foreign power. oh, was always associated with developing countries. and this now occurred to me really clearly that european leaders, western european leaders are the same thing. these are colonies, get frost rally in there, and they are doing whatever the us wants at the expense of their own people has never been clearer than what's going on right now. we're not only risking their own economies, their own political futures, if the people do go out on the street and they have begun to do that. and of course a nuclear confrontation as we were discussing. so the u. s. has shown total control

over their vassals. really in europe, and it's really disheartening to see this. yeah, yeah, it is. i mean, why don't they just say no, because no, all of their leads have been co opted. they co opted all of their leads that serve not the interest of their people as the german foreign minister said, you know, she doesn't care what, who wrote or say, ok, he doesn't get. he said that literally said that i don't care what my voters say. margaret, what are the things that i've noticed and i've been saying this ever since 2014, is that the more the west backs, whatever government there is in care of the smaller the country gets having to have you noticed that yes. what a great success. ok, and you know, everyone acts as though this was a new unprovoked attack. this has been going on for years. and yes, ukraine has not benefited at all from this bastille status. it was already the poorest country in europe, the most corrupt country in europe, although the media don't say that anymore. what a surprise in february,

suddenly it wasn't. but we see the ukrainian people suffering zalinski outlaw and political party denying people the right to bargain collectively. basically turning over the country to foreign investment. so the u. s. interference in this country has been an absolute disaster for their people. now we've had war since february, many people dead disruption displacement. so there's nothing good about ukraine having hitched it's wagon to the us and its allies. it's been an absolute disaster . well, margaret, you know, we're going to quickly go to a break here, but i think there are, there are elements. i mean, we have like the hunter biden's that have done very, very well. and of course, ukraine's oligarchy are doing extremely well. because as far as i can tell margaret, there is no audit to where those weapons are going,

where all that money is going and they'll never be in audit. ok. and so the, there's no accountability here is a matter of fact the u. s. that no longer tracks where its arms go. that whole division was of the pentagon was shut down to suddenly they don't want people to know. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break it up to about short break. we'll continue our discussion of nato's dilemma. state park in. ah ah oh, well, never be a victory for russia. wait, we shall see where you're still waiting for you a new modem, but you look at a meal. crane war is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. naz on are made,

it comes to not should get done in carbon dioxide. america forces are, and you're not in your gage, in conflict of russian forces. the american forces are here and defend nato allies . what happens that nato escalates even more than the special military operation become a war with. so that was the show and that doesn't is my dog. i see it. i see you us. thank you. costliest of me live. so i use 3 issue a unique and he's dealt with them. let's see. we live only just all food that are in your sewage, nero's eager to go with

with us. i for the all new business and you cleaned with that was chosen. yeah, americans, grey, you, when you wrote it, you know, just go to it is just such not critical. no ceiling for when you are still searching. sure. ruckel him, his name's your doctor, of the defense. didn't pull it up with you. you throw in the, with them the problem, you're still with

me or just to watch. so it was coming to the on off, on the 3rd it which, which of the longer your bush with us from. i posted history book remote because or lose your your course or do school course. i don't know who you're going to know for the dollars. i should just do give me a to them. it goes to the so the 1st opinion finance is come up with who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions today. russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing a list. of course, it's becoming the most in mind that we're, we're, we're banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g. i g

with the literature with joe by imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang. ah, welcome back. the cross walk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, to remind you we're discussing nato's dilemma with okay, let's go back to daniel like jackson, i think all of us would agree that this is the biggest propaganda psych operation of all time. and we've seen a lot of them in our lifetime here, daniel would be the it's been said accidentally said biden, set it by mistake, you know, regime change. and, but this is really what it's all about. i mean, ukraine is this, the proxy is the they don't leave these people victoria knew,

and people like they didn't care about ukraine. they care about humiliating russia and defeating russia here. and this is with the pipelines if you need any more proof, been that go ahead. daniel. what's interesting is that the big near brzezinski son is now the us ambassador in warsaw. yeah, that does make you wonder a little bit the person his father is responsible for the creation of the militia, her dean, with the idea of using them to overthrow the soviet union in russia backs. and it's the same group of people that have been in power for decades now. finally, getting their opportunity to do what they plan to do forever. they thought that, that the 2014 crew would do it, but of course then they thought the orange revolution before they would do it completely oblivious to the realities of the fact that ukraine has been a divided country. those sections of ukraine that are now rejoining russia. we're part of russia up until 1922, when lenin pilled them away and give them to ukraine. of course,

we know that crimea was peeled away later than that in the fifty's by crucial. this would have been a natural process anywhere else where you had people voting, 90 percent for this, for the, for the candidate, it was considered to be the most pro russia in those regions. it's a natural, natural feature of self determination that they would decide to join this. it's only the u. s. as you say, peter, with it's fantasy of over throwing the russian government and again, subjugating russia as it did during yeltsin to the, to, to its own will to the u. s. washington on will, that's driving this and this is joe is absolutely right. absolutely dead. the world ending policy? yeah. joe, i want to go back to that. they all through the mainstream legacy media is that the worry that is going to use nukes, ok. i don't know where this came from. the 1st person that was a french foreign minister, the 1st mention nukes during all of this,

not russia and rushes reiterated. it's new killer doctrine, it's not changed whatsoever. so, joe, my proposition is this, this is a form of projection. we, you know, i've talked to a lot of military real people, not the losers on tv. ok, but people that actually know what they're talking about. and is that nato doesn't have the conventional forces to fight a war against russia. but it does have one weapon in its arsenal. it is very deadly for all of us. and this is what i'm really worried about. they're saying the russians are going to do it, but they're projecting because that's their only line of defense jo. look at twisting in the western media and when western leaders, what exactly russia saying on this, they're changing a warning into a threat. there's a big difference between a warning and a threat. if you go to a power station and it says, warning, high voltage, it doesn't say threat, high voltage, that means you actually have to do something in order to be harmed. where is it? that's a warning. where is a threat? you could be completely innocent and be attacked and just a person could,

i could kill someone say i'm going to kill you out of a fit of rage. whereas if someone says, if you pick up that gun, i'm going to shoot that self defense a different train aggression and self defense right here. russia is laid out. yes, there nuclear doctrine, which is not change because if you attack russian territory, even with non conventional means, if it's existentially a threat to rush survival, russia, then they could use nuclear weapons. but i don't know exactly what the secret messages were that we read about in the washington post that has been going on for weeks, if not months. now from, from the u. s. i to russia regarding nuclear weapons, i fear that you might be right. and i hope that you're wrong, peter, that the, the actually, it's the western side that is making a threat rather than just a warning, because we've reached the end of the road here in the long period of a battle between unilateral us dominance and the rest of the world resisting that? we've come to the head right now, so we can be talking about this in such a, a blight way nuclear weapons. and i don't think that there's the public

consciousness than there was in october crisis 60 years ago in cuba. so as i said before, it's time to put all this talk aside and make a deal and end this war. now, learning for the russian side, this is existential. it is to be or not to be, but for the west, this is a craving choice, and it's an ideologically driven and that's what makes this so dangerous. because i, you know, i read, you know, i read tough, you know, the, the, be the government news agency. what are the most boring for things you could read? well, it's terribly terribly bore ranks, but it is. it's one fact after another this was what was said, that's it. no editorializing, i read it all the time and they say all the time what they're going to do it, you know, what is it booted 3rd, what is the big? it's not hard to figure out. go there, go to the kremlin website. it's all there in black and white. go ahead, margaret. well, well, when we get is war propaganda. we see outlets like the new york times the new york

times is just as a mouthpiece for the biden administration. and that's part of the danger. we don't get real news. we have war propaganda, new york times, washington post n, p r, et cetera. it's nothing but us propaganda. no information, no fax, nothing that is of any benefit to people. as joe said, projection in order to normalize the idea of hot war to normalize the idea of nuclear war. and by the way, the u. s. does not a rule out of 1st strike, so that we know that that's u. s. policy, the u. s. gives itself permission to use nukes 1st, and we're dealing with people who are not very smart. every act of desperation makes their situation worse. they didn't destroy rushes economy. they've destroyed

the economies all over the world. they've blown up this pipeline. and in effect, attacked an ally, a terrorist attack. so we're dealing with people who don't know what they're doing, who are, as you say, idiot, logically driven, who have some crazy band to see about being able to get rid of putin or have regime change. so we're in a very, very difficult situation with these people in charge at this moment in a canyon, i think all of us are, you know, we're kind of close in age here. all of us, the same, same generation was put it that way. i how in the world as the mainstream media and the current political lead normalized nucular war because they have, you know, nothing seems real. i mean, everything is invented out of whole cloth it's, it's incredible to think about, you know, it, talk about propaganda. you know, we talked about, there was a tweet from the associated press this week that said there is a kremlin. 6 back,

conspiracy theory going around saying that the united states blew up these pipes in . so i mean, master quote propaganda, because if you happen to question that russia did it well, then you're obviously a dupe of the kremlin. it's just so blatant now. and i think this is, this is also the way that this is escalated, the u. s. continues to throw things that it would not seeing a reaction, they'll continue to do more and more. but what the service me the most is, yes, the people in power are incompetent, but we don't have an opposition party and they're not. it states the republicans, if they had any brains and they don't, they would be running a pro peace party right now. biden has jumped the entire military budget of russia into ukraine over the past 7 months, and it's gone down a black hole. it's done nothing. you know, the republicans have, it's on a platter, but they are also so enamored with war. so caught up in the military industrial complex, so caught up in war rhetoric that they would literally rather not win house and

senate in november, then to turn and adopt a more sensible foreign policy that would have a broader repeal. yeah, i find most liberal, stupid, but republicans are scary. that's how i look at them. ok. a plague on both them. ok, joe. joe. you know, when i was, you know, when i was in graduate school, we used to read the new york review books. ok. and the sexual, i really liked with history, eastern europe, you know, soviet union, russian, all about, there was enormous amount of debate and it was really riveting. there's no debate anywhere anymore. and to the proof that point they banned me from you to. they banned me for a twitter. ok, there's no debate. no, you never even give me the chance to be insulted anymore. joe, that's what makes this a much what dangerous crew that any time, perhaps in recent history, certainly because there is no argument in the u. s. or in the west. he used to be in the seventy's, a real argument about whether we should pursue the americans should pursue detente

or not, with the soviet union. that is gone. there is no argument. you cannot say anything that goes against official narrative. this is what so frightening us needed this war. they needed russia to intervene so that they could launch their economic war and their proxy were on the ground. and especially their information was in the context, talking about right now, and they are winning that part of the losing the economic war. clearly sanction to backfire. ruble is stronger than ever, but they're winning the information war. and this is extremely part of the danger that we're living through right now, because you can even argue these points. you can't raise any questions. we've been shut down on a power consortium news. news guard has given us the red mark. we and so many people and kicked off twitter, youtube for simply raising questions does cannot go on. because if it does, it's part of the reason we're leading ourselves down this extremely dangerous path . because we can't even have a discussion about what's going on in, you know,

margaret, you know, i have said repeatedly, you know, that this is existential, of the fate of ukraine is very important to russia, security. and that is ban speech. but you know what? brock obama said exactly the same thing when he was leaving office. just imagine the short amount of time. i mean if he'd said that today, i guess technically he would be banned margaret? well, yes he would be, but, but you know, this is why they had this crazy idea. the disinformation board that was all about ukraine to make, to shut down any discussion all together. so you have people who are the more they read, the more misinformed they are, and this is a bipartisan project. democrats and republicans all too often are on board and there are on the same side more often i believe,

than actually they are different. so we need the left to step up. we are arguing about what you feel about vladimir putin and speak up in the left in europe apparently disappeared. i find it shocking that the u. s. has, in effect attacked, the e u. people are literally starting to breathe and there's no movement. of course they blew up the pipeline to try to shut that down. but the left needs to step up my only my great, they let me finish. let me finish on this point because what they also do and do very well is they keep all of us apart from each other. they make us hate each other, okay? and i refuse to do that on this program. i have progressives on all the time. libertarians all the time, very few liberals come on, but i do my best at all the time we have, we need more debate. maybe that's what we'll say, because here many thanks, i guess in washington, new york and lake jackson. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to

see you next time. remember ah, ah, ah, you say you semester, lisa? well, with some of the st. peter when enough to shut down because jelly, you know, she was come. chromebooks, some stuff done with all the way folks bugging somebody out of the school. we have to deal with

with a new engine. you were in love with it. it was up here at the office with they don't finish with. what does that mean? if the closest photo movie needs to come to rush in the state, little never at the time, i'm phoning scheme. i'm not getting a

speaking with band in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machines. the state aren't russia for date and r t sport that even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube a with me. oh, when i was showing wrong, when i just don't hold any world is yes to shape out. disdain becomes the advocate. an engagement. it was betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. with prayer will never be a victory for our russia. ukraine war is a proxy war. this is a war between russia and the united states. to mess oman are made, it comes to last should get done in carbon dioxide. america forces are in europe, not in europe. engage in conflict with russian forces. the american forces are hearing, defend nato allies. nato escalates even more indiscretion. military operations become a war though when you put the del soap so that will be rules and no matter what level.