the hello and welcome across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. the landscape regime is made it clear. it is not interested in any negotiations as russia to end the military conflict. this should not surprise anyone. after all, this has been the position of the bided administration all along. the collective west is intent on supporting this conflict until the last ukranian may be until there is no ukraine left. the cross sucking diplomatic stalemate, i'm joined by my guests, larry johnson in tampa. he is a managing partner in burg, associates and a former c i, a analyst, and us state department counterterrorism official and how we have oliver boyd barrett. he is a professor emeritus of journalism and public relations at bowling green state university, as well as author of brush gate and propaganda. and in corpus christi,

we have michael flannigan. he is president of flanigan consulting, and a former congressman or a gentleman, cross stock rules and a fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, let me go to larry 1st and tampa who survived. and i'm glad you have the, you know, have you on this week? you couldn't last week for obvious reasons. larry, what do you make of zelinski? so i need decrease. there's no negotiations, at least not with this current russian president. and of course, as i said in my introduction, this is an echo of what the by to ministration and supported all along. so i will invoke that more on name burrell, the foreign policy chief for the you. this will be sided on the battlefield. i guess that's pretty clear how go ahead, larry. there are the final propaganda pushes under way. lensky certainly is doubling down on a very bad hand. despite all of the hoopla, the propaganda going on in the west about the great victories of ukraine and how rushing the treat prudence on the verge of collapse, it's going to happen in a minute. now. got to do is hold on. and yet,

the reality is something else. and the, the bottom line fact is ukraine does not have the ability to sustain itself on the battlefield without continued supplies coming from the united states and nato and the ability of the united states. and they talk to continue. those supplies is we're city, it's not increasing the, the kinds of actual weapons that the united states can said that the europeans consent is this not the top of the lines, material tanks, planes. it's the 2nd hand stuff. and on top of that, the ammunition supplies that the west has just to provide can are being depleted and they do not have the industrial base they once had. this is not the world war 2 united states that could really crank up and produce stuff. so the, once he's in trouble is just the world hasn't caught up to it yet. you know,

michael with the, the, the sabotage of the nord stream pipelines. again, that's kind of taking a piece off the chessboard because that was something very important for the russians. and for particularly the germans, but europe in general here, i think we all know who did it, but i'm not, i don't want to waste time talking about that. but the fact of the matter is, is that, that was some that was a form of interaction. that was very important for both parties that's been taken off the board. because there's, there's been talk, there was a talk for weeks that the germans were interested in coming to some kind of understanding with the russians. somebody else decided, no, there's going to be no understanding your thoughts. i think if some that have absolutely correctly there's going to be no solution if left to gloria and then newland and the other geniuses, foggy bottom and say they're the thought leaders of this nightmare. and it, oh,

and as i only say from the outset, putin should not have invaded, he should have not left his own borders. but harring dealing with that reality, we need to come to peace and to come to peace. you have to have the parties come to the table. so if you're going to have some ridiculous, the only thing we'll accept is unconditional. surrender, like in the 2nd world war, will you better be in a position to win the war? well, you know, what's zalinski is not, and he's just not going to happen. it's laughable to imagine that ukraine could win this war. and the fact that we continue to live in the west, in a, in a, in a media circus that drives this narrative. it confuses me deeply because there is no way to grind this downs. and when my door in the water it takes the more brutal that will be at. but michael, you can escalate up. i agree with you there. would there a way? there were ways that may be a ray of hope that it could happen now. i tend to doubt it, but you can escalate to let, let me go to oliver in ohio. is it?

this is what i worry about because i've learned a lot from larry johnson, our guest in our program. i did a podcast on my, on the goggle, with george samuel alley, which, you know, is how much longer length. but, you know, what worries me is that the, the west doesn't have the conventional capacity to maintain this war. and so there's the next step. and that's the big step. ok. and we hear all of this talk about, you know, a, using the technical you nuclear weapons. that's not the russian saying at this. it's an insinuation on from the west because they don't have the conventional capacity to say in a conflict against russia. oliver go ahead. you know, this issue a conventional capacity is kind of important because although they do seem to have run out of her stocks for their own defense poses, let alone or the defensive ukraine. they are, or a billions to dollars more and to orders for future deliveries of hardware

and others orders will eventually be met to the great profitability of the western ass manufacturers who the who seem to be the primary beneficiaries of this war or by the way and but by my thinking is that at some point, there's no new orders for webinar. we do have to start running in, but i'm not sure how many months it takes. and i dare say it takes different periods of time according to what categories of weaponry we are talking about. i'm thinking the winter. this is a very, very dangerous time for the, for the west. because of the situation in the battlefield was despite the misleading optics of her keith s on the the, the, this is not a good time for the worse and we're entering autumn where entering winter is going

to be very difficult for either side to launch major offenses well, i think we went out, but oliver, when it's, it's the rainy season where i am right now to say it's a rainy season in ukraine. russia has a very good history of fighting in the winter of stalingrad on the defensive berlin . it winters, not a big problem. hard ground is good. okay. larry, i well, you know, one of the things that really bothers me about a lot of the commentary on the complex is that we have to look at it in a very broadly, what russia is doing. now. it will, it wants to avoid having to have to do it in again, in 5 years or 10 years, or 15 years. they want a definitive outcome for their security needs, which is so much commentary about this overlooks that go ahead larry that, well, i think part of the problem is the wes looks at this entirely as a football game that who, who's, who's scored a point who's, who's allowed to all and they forget the costs of what dictate that that war is

just an extension of politics and you've got to look at the broader politics. and that's where i think the russians clearly have the advantage here. and we saw it on was, i don't know, i can't recall if it was tuesday or wednesday of this week. but when opec plus turns around and says, hey, we're going to reduce the production of oil at the very time that washington and europe are begging for lower oil prices and more oil. now if, if saudi arabia and the rest of the opec nations nigeria thought that russia was just getting clobbered and was on the verge of collapse, does any same person say that those countries would align themselves with a guaranteed loser? absolutely not, they're not crazy. so the people need to take into account the politics of this, which also gets into the economics. and so from that standpoint,

that what's happening militarily on the ground, i don't want to minimize it, but it's a bit of a side show. and it's now it's the, it's the drama, the west needs or is a sit com mentality. that's such a good point. because michael, i think that, you know, when we look at here we are, we're in october in winter is beginning to start. i think we're going to have very different conversation, echoing with larry just said, they're not about the battlefield, but the condition of europe's economy and my extension the united states. go ahead . michael and corpus christi. yeah, i think general kudos offset it, but general winter is on its way. the russians do very well in the winter. the west is not an zalinski isn't doing very well anywhere i'm putting laid out several months ago. 5 points. ready for a point where we can stop fighting and discussed, the permanent relinquishment of the crimea promise not to go into nato and several other. those ago posts it moved as russia has paid

a price on the ground and has captured the don bastard. virtually all of it. and now has other designs. i'm guessing because that once he drags this out, so the russian view is to ratchet up the pain and bring come to the table. and let's have a done with this. and the pain will continue to be ratcheted up by the russians because they can afford. ready to do it, they have the capacity to do it. and so i think the battle is something a little more than a side show, although it is subordinate to the, to the political discussion, to be sure. but i think it's the method by which newton is trying to bring this to an end and move on to talks. and so they, we, we shuffled into carfagna wheat and we got pushed out. we'll go back and i think they will odessa looms large in the winter if there's a winter offensive, and i'm sure there will be the, the problems for ukraine are insurmountable. the longer they dragged this out in a political sense, as well as

a military one. they would do well to come to the table now. i don't think they can . i don't think, glory, a new one. i don't think my, my, my dear friend i came into congress with senator graham is going to let them do these things. i think they're there, as, as you said at the outset, they're going to fight to the last few quite a bit. my michael, that moment watching. and i'm agreeing with you, but that means they don't really care much about ukraine. right. kind a true. they, both of them are care, far more about hurting russia than they do about protecting ukraine. that is a fact well and, and also the, the, the, the derivative of that is that what kind of economic damage will be lasting damage because trade ties will change. and people's the say, well, i'm gonna say what the russians are going to stick with the chinese because the europeans don't know. they don't, don't even how to protect their own interests. there are gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on diplomatic fielding. stay with

ah a nelson as well. wow. do you easy while furnace us? ah. yeah. it's a fun flight yet if south. yeah. rush south with the new duck. awesome voice. now watch. done the for me at that a bull up. i pete on the is emily, apple's video from sheila kim's room. she thought that he's safe, the. why fi ella? any billing desk my thought, or janine did it again to your fortune. pity up in the be

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to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had ever. no real good you know, to production issue or should i go to that they're not good, good, good, good. suddenly we're going to put you on more more general margaret thought this meant union, the more not up on there and i got to learn more sales. i got your name. i understood. i wish to know about jewelry. whole knew you didn't or got more pushed in jail it's i had to put on with their mother and all our buddy build. you can help us out. nice. oh boy. good to go on. what the on this the

wow, she my and new other. i'm all, i can send more on all said mom, good student i don't the year you'll not annoy or put them out that they give us a b . welcome back to cross like we're all things are considered. i'm peter. let's remind you. we're discussing diplomatic stalemate. ah. okay, let's go back to oliver oliver. going back to the, the, the sabotage of the pipelines. it says it, 2 things stand out of my mind. number one, obviously, however, did this wanted to cut that economic energy relationship, but it may, at the end of the day cripple, germany, certainly not russia. this is an annoyance for russia are they might rebuild it my might repair it, but if someone's going to blow it up again, then why do it ok?

and number 2 and that kind of civilian infrastructure i guess is on the table. are there other pipelines in the baltic? um i just think who did this um, with thinking in very short term as if it white make some kind of dramatic difference. it doesn't, it may, it may in the short, medium run and that will be germany in the european economy. go ahead. all. yeah. well, i'm not sure that it's a short term, or it may actually be quite a long term and a worrying way. which is to say the, you know, where, where we to make the presumption that the united states has had a hand in the sabotage. the course is going to be an investigation into this. it will be an investigation it to which a russia will not be invited. shades of an age. 17 shenanigans in 2014. but i think the long term game peers for the united states,

both to, to, to crush europe and to crush russia simultaneously. that, that, that is the game. and of the same time, to make it impossible for europe and russia to collaborate. that will have the effect of consolidating rushes, pivot to asia. it will have the effect of greatly solidifying and strengthening the asian chinese asian alliances. it will have the effect of whether the united states wants it or not, of ushering, ushering in the multi polar wo. uh, so fright, so terrified the washington leads that the saddest part of well are so many set parts of the story and the suffering of the ukrainian old ukrainian people is one

of those. but another very, very sad elements. this story is the crushing of europe. now, and in particular the crushing you're just accept, the germans don't seem to realize yet what is happening to them. i think i can only assume that they are so integrated into a power structure that is dominated by the united states. that they don't see that they have korea possibilities anywhere else of, of, of them to be owns. yeah. yeah, but i, i just think they've, they're just obsessed with there's neo liberal ideology. they can't break out of it . i mean, it, it, it, they, they can't see reality for what it is because they're ideologically blind. let larry look, let's talk about that because i think we're all in agreement. the prize and all this is continued american hegemony over europe. ok. you know, check that box, but the europe, the price of europe is a very modern, high productivity economy. i mean, without cheaper energy, you don't have,

you know, you go pre industrial. i mean, i, i don't know what europe is going to be maybe a destination for terrorists from indian china to see what people used to live like because the prize is worthless. if it isn't, it isn't a high, high productivity. larry, i posted an open thread on my blog the other day, asking people, what's your economic situation? i have a remarkable readership. i mean, people from around the world. i got comments from a lot from europe, asia, africa, australia, canada. we're in a global economic crisis and what's coming out of your is particularly disturbing in terms of across the board. these, the people that were commenting were saying, look, my bills have double, they've triple people that have been, ex pats are now selling their property and they're leaving europe. try to come back to the united states because it's so bad. so the, the reality for the people, for the civilians, the populace, it is on a grand scale. this is

a little bit like that moment in the french revolution, where marie antoinette was and let them be k. because the leadership is so out of touch with what's going on with the average citizen, the business people that are trying to keep bakeries open are heavens, even with toilet paper producers in germany having to declare a bankruptcy. one of the necessities of life, if you will. so their failure to come to grasp the, to come to grips with the economic consequences of this policy towards russia. underscore is the fact that they're, they're not thinking about this in terms of a comprehensive strategy to win a war, or they're focused only upon how can we are russia. yeah. but get it, but that, that's not, that's not in any one security interest in the long run. again, that's why i keep saying we have to take steps back here because what about the european security architecture?

we need to talk about that. ok, i mean, you know, the can be, is much looser foby as you want, but there's still here, neighbor, you can't do anything about that. let me, let me go to michael. michael, you know there's, there's energy cap on russian energy, which of course is kind of what unicorn stuff in my, my, i still don't really understand it. i don't think anybody really does. but i mean, let's flip the, the, the script here will be a cap on high priced l n, g from the united states. is anybody talking about tapping that? because there are the, i mean, this is obviously a looking for the fees market. this energy market, the americans want it, they wanted to die the russians. ok. but in the middle of europe, i mean the, what they're going to be charge is going to be again, their productivity will fail. michael, after the 2nd world war, when europe was in the ashes of the united states, owned about half the world's gps, or yep,

12550000000 people own half the world's g d p. today we own a little less than a quarter and it's going down. but the people making decisions for our economic future, our military future are had gemini in europe, which i believe is ebbing, quickly. still live in a world where we call the shots, we absolutely do not any more and we need to come to understand that. and i don't think newland or biden, or the 30 something nameless, faceless. ready children who run the white house have a clue what they're doing. the future of this country of the united states is going to be increasingly entered, dependent on an economically vibrant globe. however much it's being harm now. and you know that it has been said here that they are in pain. that is a fact. but we will share that pain shortly. and it's coming and it's going in, it's inexorable. inflation is going to be the smallest problem we've got coming shortly. you know, it used to be the united states catches a cold in the world,

gets pneumonia. it's going to be the. ready way around and are come up and says, coming quickly here, we don't have the economic power we did even 30 years ago. and we continued to manage a foreign policy that pretends that we do well then also what they did. there's one thing that the u. s. has enormous amounts of debt. oh, so did the europeans, enormous amount of debt. here oliver, one of the interesting things of all this is that the global south is, is turned its back on this whole affair. this is a, between the europeans and the russians. don't drag us into it, you know why? mostly because you don't have a solution to end it. why should i back here cause if there is no ending to this. ok. and the in the global south is as staying on the sidelines. that's very significant in light of what michael just said. go ahead, oliver. yes, absolutely. we see some science that her country's like molly keener faster and some others in central africa are turning away from the

ice france in favor of the russian of ok. so that's, that is a very interesting kind of just going to quickly go back to the issue of the l and g. lincoln said, quite recently the, the sabotage of the notes from one to 2 lines was a wonderful opportunity for the, for the united states. actually, he's wrong because the united states is not producing enough energy to service the european markets. it's, it's facing steep gasoline prices arises and gasoline prices here in the united states. so it needs as much gas for its own populations as well . and also the, the shale revolution of the past 10 to 20 years is now drawing to an end. there will be

a diminution of shale oil and gas supplies in the united states. this isn't dwindling resource. and the idea that the united states believes that there's a future in selling l and g to the united states as i to, to europe and, and europe. there's not going to be bailed out either by mythology of us allergy, even steepest possible price control. clearly, clearly, and none of these people thought any of this are, you know, larry, what are future historians get to think about this? i mean, this is all self inflicted. these are craving choices. these none of this should be happening larry. some airy parallels if you will, with the 1st world war, because when you look back at the health, the world got drugged in europe in particular, was drug into

a completely unnecessary massive slaughter. there are the historians will look back at this period and see a complete failure of leadership across the board, an unnecessary provocation of russia and refusal to negotiate and, and in the end, it will, this is going to lead to, unfortunately widespread pain. i think das destruction, i don't mean to be a doom say or but it just, the future is dark in what we're looking at because the leaders are refusing to stand up and try to be reasonable adults. you know, michael, i think when all is said and done, what's going to be left of ukraine? the call had been dead or stand. ok because that's all that's going to be lab. the longer this goes on, the smaller ukraine gets last 25 seconds. go to you, my friend. thank you sir. i think you're absolutely correct. put in is trying to wrap up the pain and st. anytime you want to talk,

we're ready to talk and stop this. and what is the one key say to the death will fight to that, that. what do you, are you insane? it will never stop until the russians when that's when it stops. well, let it up now and michael, i'm sure you so lindsey is got a plane on the tarmac with all the money and it just pull the afghan president variant and just leave the country. ok. or he'll end up in a ditch one way or another. it's going to end as all the time we have gentlemen many thanks them i guess in tampa. and hor, corpus christi. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember trust, stock rules. the oh, i nights. days always had a variety of tools to use and tax on other countries. economic

sanctions are, are often just the beginning. another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about here. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. uh huh. we have a responsibility for the whole world and we need to make room for the rest because without us there will be k i d. hi. don't see this conflict as being one over values. that's not to say that there might not be differences in values between elements of the us population or elements of the u. s . leadership and elements of the russian population in russia. leadership that

there may well be some differences, but i don't see this conflict as having to do with that. i see this primarily as really, frankly, a proxy war on russia's border that is being pursued by the u. s. and the neo powers. mm ah, with just look up, some of the muscle is on you know, she kitty doesn't being an issue on a nurse to me as possible. mom with this ashley. i wanted to touch base with you for now. can i put the key for the ching,

of crimes to network for furnished or something to do that week? that was there. there was a little grain lisa. 2 2 2 0. 6 i guess my food needed to look to meet them with in the nice couple with .